[Sasquatch]

There isnt much room to on that spin test video to really determine, in my opinion. If at all possible, can you set the camera up so that you are firing the balls over the camera, towards the white foam?

[cockerpunk]

Sasquatch, on Jun 26 2009, 08:02 AM, said:

There isnt much room to on that spin test video to really determine, in my opinion. If at all possible, can you set the camera up so that you are firing the balls over the camera, towards the white foam?

if you watch the high speed test on the apex, or you say count frames and know the velocity (which you do) you end up computing that the paintball is in frame and in focus for over 4 feet in most cases. if the rifling works, it should spin the paintball axially something like 2 revolutions in that case.

[Snipez4664]

There was enough footage to determine that even when there did appear to be a nonzero spin, it was of a small magnitude and was not consistent.

Furthermore, the accuracy test suggests there is no funny business going on (not to mention that one wouldn't expect axial spins to affect sphere accuracy from a theoretical standpoint)

[cockerpunk]

Snipez4664, on Jun 26 2009, 08:06 AM, said:

There was enough footage to determine that even when there did appear to be a nonzero spin, it was of a small magnitude and was not consistent.

Furthermore, the accuracy test suggests there is no funny business going on (not to mention that one wouldn't expect axial spins to affect sphere accuracy from a theoretical standpoint)

exactly.

when i shot the apex, every single shot looked almost identical, all with wicked spin, in the same direction and of similar magnitude. i merely had to find a shot that was very nicely in focus to put in the video. i shot the apex over 40 times under the camera, and there was not a single shot that didn't spin a substantial, and predictable and repeatable way.

on this test i saw nothing more then the slight spins that you can also observe with smooth barrels. yes, even smooth barrels have some spin, nothing large, and nothing predictable or repeatable, but there is some spin. an NO spin the "axial" direction, as rifling should produce.

idk, the idea that the hammer head puts spin on paintballs is pretty debunked IMO. but that doesn't mean rifling can't put spin on the ball. with a small bore barrel with rifling that really grabs the paintball, i bet you could do it. now, as snipez pointed out, its debatable whether that will actually help anything or not.

This post has been edited by cockerpunk: 26 June 2009 - 08:24 AM

[sticktodrum]

Indeed. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Should a company promote a product with a claim behind it, it's only fair to present some standard of reasonable evidence. What's being done is that the claim is being tested with a certain level of experimental controls, and done in a repeatable process. The results are published (for lack of a better word), and I'm sure anyone is free to independently test and verify the results.

Seems that here, there was a claim that couldn't be supported by any evidence.

[Lord Odin]

Good job guys. Looks like we're finally getting some data on this topic beyond HH itself.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with saying that "x-product does not work." That's far from saying "don't buy x-product" because you're simply commenting on their claims. If people want an aftermarket product, you're advising them not to get it. It's more of a standpoint of an observer than a policeman.

[Spitlebug]

Hrm. No spin.

[Paintballlover83]

finally someone tested this barrel out im going to watch vid now

[Paintballlover83]

so basically the hammerhead isnt worth it?

[STEED]

Interesting, think you guys could run a few first strike rounds through a hammer head to see the results?

[Mora]

beforehand, i had found the ti-barrels (titanium paintball's longbow barrels) to be the most accurate blah blah, and i always thought about somehow slapping a mofo tip on it instead of the ti-tip (its a little heavy). WHAT ARE THE ODDS that the threads on my ti-back would be the exact same as the threads HH uses? IK...any way i compared my ti barrel (great barrels) down field at dday and it wasnt too bad, but then i put tho mofo on it and it was most definitely more consistent: it was noticable to say the least. maybe if PW tested this at longer distances there would be some sort of trend?

[brycelarson]

Mora, on Jun 27 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

beforehand, i had found the ti-barrels (titanium paintball's longbow barrels) to be the most accurate blah blah, and i always thought about somehow slapping a mofo tip on it instead of the ti-tip (its a little heavy). WHAT ARE THE ODDS that the threads on my ti-back would be the exact same as the threads HH uses? IK...any way i compared my ti barrel (great barrels) down field at dday and it wasnt too bad, but then i put tho mofo on it and it was most definitely more consistent: it was noticable to say the least. maybe if PW tested this at longer distances there would be some sort of trend?

we tested at 150 feet. That's very long range for paintballs. While people can lob paint another 100' or so beyond that - it's certainly outside of a range where you can consistently put paint on a person. testing beyond that is starting to get silly. That's like telling us that we need to test the new tires on my ford ranger at 100 miles an hour - so that we can see the difference. Sure, the car will go that fast - but it certainly doesn't like to, and if the only performance benefits are found outside of normal usage conditions - then those benefits aren't very useful in the real world.

[Mora]

the chart says 120 (typo?)
maybe the ti-back adds alittle somthing. it would be useful in woodsball at least; and since i play back its a plus.

This post has been edited by Mora: 27 June 2009 - 08:08 AM

[brycelarson]

oops, my bad.

120' it is, I was thinking of another test.

[Capt. Kirk]

cockerpunk, on Jun 26 2009, 06:22 AM, said:

Snipez4664, on Jun 26 2009, 08:06 AM, said:

There was enough footage to determine that even when there did appear to be a nonzero spin, it was of a small magnitude and was not consistent.

Furthermore, the accuracy test suggests there is no funny business going on (not to mention that one wouldn't expect axial spins to affect sphere accuracy from a theoretical standpoint)

exactly.

when i shot the apex, every single shot looked almost identical, all with wicked spin, in the same direction and of similar magnitude. i merely had to find a shot that was very nicely in focus to put in the video. i shot the apex over 40 times under the camera, and there was not a single shot that didn't spin a substantial, and predictable and repeatable way.

on this test i saw nothing more then the slight spins that you can also observe with smooth barrels. yes, even smooth barrels have some spin, nothing large, and nothing predictable or repeatable, but there is some spin. an NO spin the "axial" direction, as rifling should produce.

idk, the idea that the hammer head puts spin on paintballs is pretty debunked IMO. but that doesn't mean rifling can't put spin on the ball. with a small bore barrel with rifling that really grabs the paintball, i bet you could do it. now, as snipez pointed out, its debatable whether that will actually help anything or not.

In order to grip the paintball enough to put a rifle-esque spin on it the entire barrel would have to be in constant contact until it left the barrel. currently the riffled barrel could produce the desired spin, but only if everything was sized exactly right, and paint just isn't consistent enough to machine a corrisponding riffled barrel. I figure, if you want supreme accuracy, go with a first strike round, thats the only mod that seems to actually work in terms of Axial paint spin.

[schulzy]

My friend was trying to tell me that the "rifling" in his Hammerhead Bangstixx made the paintball a more accurate shot, so I showed him this, and he shut up.

[warbeak2099]

Pretty much to be expected.

[Flonominal]

So what does RIFLING actually do? Does this prove that Rifling does not work as advertised?

[brycelarson]

Flonominal, on Jun 28 2009, 02:31 PM, said:

So what does RIFLING actually do? Does this prove that Rifling does not work as advertised?

We haven't found that rifling has any effect on paintballs. We've now tested the Empire Twister, the Armson rifled, the Bang Stikxx and the Mofo. None of them did anything different from any other barrel we've tested.

[MNpaintball]

so have you shown some of your results to these rifling barrel companies like Hammer Head and Empire's Twister barrel?

i'm sure that they would just like to hear feedback in general. maybe so that they can make a barrel that really DOES spin the paintball