[Hunter_D]

I'd be more than happy to contribute to the "breaking in" of a gun with the arrival of my newest Promaster!

[cockerpunk]

i think this depends alot on the design of the marker.

in a gun like an automag, .0002 inches on the power tube oring can mean the differnce from bolt stick every shot to your level 10 bouncing off the most brittle paint.

but on a gun like an autococker or your typical stacked tube poppit valve, that just doesn't matter as much.

[Poe]

cockerpunk, on Dec 23 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

i think this depends alot on the design of the marker.

in a gun like an automag, .0002 inches on the power tube oring can mean the differnce from bolt stick every shot to your level 10 bouncing off the most brittle paint.

but on a gun like an autococker or your typical stacked tube poppit valve, that just doesn't matter as much.

As little as 0.0002?! I wouldn't have thought.

[italian mobster]

why am i so stupid

[cockerpunk]

Poe, on Dec 23 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

cockerpunk, on Dec 23 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

i think this depends alot on the design of the marker.

in a gun like an automag, .0002 inches on the power tube oring can mean the differnce from bolt stick every shot to your level 10 bouncing off the most brittle paint.

but on a gun like an autococker or your typical stacked tube poppit valve, that just doesn't matter as much.

As little as 0.0002?! I wouldn't have thought.

most of the automag valve system is precision ground, 200 millionths is cake for a grinder to stay accurate.

and yeah, the reason for all the different level 10 spacers is becuase of variation in the orings, not the gun or bolt. the tolerances issue is the oring itself.

[hey no way]

bob long intimidator series are definite break in guns. vices are quite persnickity about that

[Jack Wood]

Extrude honing is amazing. I'd love to have that done to the head of my car.

O-ring tolerance is BY FAR the biggest ball-ache we have. Compared to the tolerance that we can hold on machined parts, the o-rings area joke. We have to stick to a sole supplier of o-rings to have any chance of keeping any kind of consitency of fit and feel in the parts. And even then it is pot-luck what you get from week to week.

This post has been edited by Jack Wood: 24 December 2008 - 04:39 AM

[Snipez4664]

Jack Wood, on Dec 24 2008, 04:38 AM, said:

Extrude honing is amazing. I'd love to have that done to the head of my car.

O-ring tolerance is BY FAR the biggest ball-ache we have. Compared to the tolerance that we can hold on machined parts, the o-rings area joke. We have to stick to a sole supplier of o-rings to have any chance of keeping any kind of consitency of fit and feel in the parts. And even then it is pot-luck what you get from week to week.

As an aside, I just found a new donor swap engine for my car (BMW E30) - I wonder how much extrude honing would run...

Absolutely agree. I once went so far as to design a groove system that maintains a constant sealing force on the O-ring for a gun in which the friction was critical on the only spool seal involved. You can imagine it as rather CVT like, but I was never sure how the air pressure flux would affect it. So many things that I never get around to testing outside of my brain

I think that a really lost art is that of O-ring selection - on any gun we care about between me and my brother, we'll test fit parts with the O-rings we've just put on - you can tell a bad one from a good one quite easily. The ol' hand dynamometer (This compliments Snipez's world famous 'finger calipers') The shocker guys have caught on to this pretty recently, to the point where it's becoming 'common' knowledge.

For those that don't know, the total sealing diameter difference on O-rings is generally +-.003 at the diametric ridge from the 'actual' dimension. I'd say in most guns this can be worth up to 30fps, depending on settings.

[crusificton]

I would imagine it would be difficult to accurately control this test considering that I think that companies actual try their guns out for a few shots to ensure they function. I know with my ego that was well lubed brand new was probably seven times.

[Lucas]

wgp2002, on Dec 22 2008, 09:22 PM, said:

it may depend on the gun as well beyond the difference of valves.. maybe throw some old guns in like mags or cockers compared to lux's .. maybe bob longs would be a good test subject old vs new

I agree with you,
depending on which guns and how they operate whether it be spool, poppet, or other different features will determine your results.
But I think if you take a variety of guns brand new y ou could come to a reasonable conclusion.

[Nefarious79]

which one performs better the worn out one or the new one hmmm................

[TechPB-Mike]

Gordon & Bryce, what would be an ideal gun to test this out on?

Spool? Poppet?

I'm thinking spool, just because of the amount of oring surface area you get with a spool

[brycelarson]

TechPB-Mike, on Dec 24 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

Gordon & Bryce, what would be an ideal gun to test this out on?

Spool? Poppet?

I'm thinking spool, just because of the amount of oring surface area you get with a spool

I would think that if it's an o-ring thing - spool.

However, if it's a regulator thing - then anything with a HPR and LPR.

If it's a spring thing - poppet.

So, I guess the answer is - I dunno.

[Cheap-o]

get a couple minis, and a couple PMr's or G3's if its going to be money issue... everyones got a mini or a g3

[Nefarious79]

I dont, care to share?

[VICE_ROY]

I believe that guns shoot smoother and more consistent after you get a few cases through them.

The test would have to be done to prove this, but the first few hundred rounds through my Vice consisted of one chop and a few breaks. After getting a little over a case through it, I could play all day, shoot over a case, and get zero ball breakage, and no chops.

It also seems as if my Vice has started to get a little bit smoother and consistent now that I've got nearly 6 cases through it, but I don't have any evidence to support that.

[chewiestmonkey]

why not test both? see what happens =]

[Iram]

I think there's a biological component here that's not being takin into account. I know when I do anything that changes the way a marker shoots, or switch to a new marker, I play like shit for the first two days. It just takes me time to get used to the different feel, different grip angle, etc., of the new gun. "Muscle memory", or whatever you want to call it, definately plays a role (at least for me).

===============

I haven't done formal testing, but this is what I've observed with my last few guns.

PMR SE: Velocity was +/-10 to +/-15 right out of the box. One shot would be 260, the next 280. After putting several cases (probably around 10-20 cases total), the consistancy is generally +/-3 fps.

Custom Timmy (Hyper2 inline reg): When initially build, the consistancy was about +/-10 fps (260-280 fps). After two cases, it was down to +/-3 or 4 fps. I then took the hole gun apart, duracoated it, and put it back together. It was then shooting +/-10 fps again. After the first half case, it was down to shooting +/- 3fps.

Autococker SR: Initially, it was shooting about +/-12 fps. Started leaking after the first ~600 rounds. Just got it back from WGP after the repair...