[-ORaNGe-]

Yeah, that isn't going to fly here, I've had a few users now who feel they can dictate how the BST rules will apply to them. When it comes to Player's Club members we have their name, address, paypal info, email, IP and other pieces of information. Knowing this they are far more unlikely to conduct a scam than a regular member and on top of this if they do we have the info we need to pursue them. It states in the BST rules that if you are trading with a Player's Club member in a trade you will be shipping first, stating that you WON'T ship to them first or WON'T deal with them is not acceptable. If a PC member chooses to wave the right to have an item shipped to them first that is alright and completely understandable. If the person they're dealing with is a regular member with 30+ feedback and the PC member has very little or none, in that type of situation it is perfectly acceptable for the two involved in the deal to reach a differing arrangement.

What it comes down to is this, our BST is the safest in paintball, our rules work and they will continue to work as long as they're followed and properly enforced. Users may not decide which rules they will and will not follow, if a user is unwilling to deal with PC members then they will be asked to take their business elsewhere, if they refuse to follow our rules they aren't wanted here.

If you see an ad making statements such as these please report the ad and a staffer will take care of it. When a user isn't willing to follow safety protocols we put in place then that makes them highly suspect and I'm not a fan of taking risks. I'd rather lose a few shady members than deal with a scam.

[Josh13]

Ok what if I choose to deny an offer even if it's in my favor because the member is part of the players club. Do I have the right to do that. This is hypothetically speaking.

[LikeACheeseStick]

Josh13, on 09 January 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Ok what if I choose to deny an offer even if it's in my favor because the member is part of the players club. Do I have the right to do that. This is hypothetically speaking.

Sure. It's your loss though.

[-ORaNGe-]

Your choice, but you'd be an idiot to do it lol.

"Oh, an Ego 11 plus $125 for my G6R? nawww I'll pass."

Fail.

[PeanutWing]

I think he means you can always say no, but not discriminate.

[J. Nez]

Thank you, Orange.

I've been seeing more and more of this lately, but knew it wasn't my place to address it. Considering I just coughed up the money for my PC membership, I found it a little bit unnerving that people could seemingly waive that at will. Just seemed a bit... rude, you know?

[etekgirl27]

J. Nez, on 10 January 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

Thank you, Orange.

I've been seeing more and more of this lately, but knew it wasn't my place to address it. Considering I just coughed up the money for my PC membership, I found it a little bit unnerving that people could seemingly waive that at will. Just seemed a bit... rude, you know?

If you ever have a problem or concern such as that please let one of us know. We are here to make sure everyone is happy

[cybermaniac15]

I love this place...

[Paintballer_13]

What if we tell everyone they must ship first ? And a PC member comes in and it states that "I will not ship first" and try post a trade but then are mad because they say they should get the gun first?

I don't see why we must ship first to players club members? Yes I know it's a rule and such but if I tell every other user they must ship first because I dont like shipping my guns out first because I've had bad experiences wha makes the likeliness of that happening changing but because he is a PC member? Simply because he was able to pay the $15 or so extra dollars to use this site he gets a rule just to himself? I don't mind the extra forums and such like their own hotline to call in just this rule.

I'm just wondering about this because I don't really ever ship first so how would I go about this If a players club member wanted to trade with me? I can't say no PC because then that would be doscriminatong.

[Josh13]

-ORaNGe-, on 09 January 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Your choice, but you'd be an idiot to do it lol.

"Oh, an Ego 11 plus $125 for my G6R? nawww I'll pass."

Fail.

Yeah I get what your saying, but some people don't feel safe shipping first especially with a high end.

This post has been edited by Josh13: 10 January 2012 - 08:20 AM

[PbMilker]

Paintballer_13, on 10 January 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

What if we tell everyone they must ship first ? And a PC member comes in and it states that "I will not ship first" and try post a trade but then are mad because they say they should get the gun first?

I don't see why we must ship first to players club members? Yes I know it's a rule and such but if I tell every other user they must ship first because I dont like shipping my guns out first because I've had bad experiences wha makes the likeliness of that happening changing but because he is a PC member? Simply because he was able to pay the $15 or so extra dollars to use this site he gets a rule just to himself? I don't mind the extra forums and such like their own hotline to call in just this rule.

I'm just wondering about this because I don't really ever ship first so how would I go about this If a players club member wanted to trade with me? I can't say no PC because then that would be doscriminatong.

Sure you can say no. You just can't do the deal then. Your loss, not the guy in PC. However, if he wanted to he could waive his right to receive first, but that's completely his discretion.

[Paintballer_13]

Ok then thank you for clearing this up

[J. Nez]

Paintballer_13, on 10 January 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

What if we tell everyone they must ship first ? And a PC member comes in and it states that "I will not ship first" and try post a trade but then are mad because they say they should get the gun first?

I don't see why we must ship first to players club members? Yes I know it's a rule and such but if I tell every other user they must ship first because I dont like shipping my guns out first because I've had bad experiences wha makes the likeliness of that happening changing but because he is a PC member? Simply because he was able to pay the $15 or so extra dollars to use this site he gets a rule just to himself? I don't mind the extra forums and such like their own hotline to call in just this rule.

I'm just wondering about this because I don't really ever ship first so how would I go about this If a players club member wanted to trade with me? I can't say no PC because then that would be doscriminatong.

You can always say no, if you don't want the deal. We aren't saying that if a PC member offers anything whatsoever, you MUST say yes. But if we toss you a deal that you like, it would seem a bit silly to choose not to accept it just because they are PC and you don't feel like shipping first. But one thing you said (I bolded it) got me. The Player's Club is not just about paying money for other topics, and a neat little blue title. it's about security. Every time you see a member like me with a Player's Club title, that means that our real names, our addresses, basically ALL of our personal information is on file. If somebody is stupid enough to try to scam you from within the Player's Club, Orange and the other Mods here at TechPB can, and will (they seem to have an incredible track record, actually), make their life a living hell, in order to get your gear back. With a PC member, that's easy for them to do, because they simply need to type in a username, and they have that info ready. That's what makes the likeliness of being scammed by a PC member less.

In my case, as well as quite a few others, not only am I PC, but I have +14 feedback. Sorry, but I am NOT shipping first to any non-PC members. I daresay that my forum track record is proof enough of my reliability. I'm sure there are plenty of others that feel the same way. Asking us to ship first just won't fly. I might consider it if it's another PC member I know really well here on the forums, and certainly wouldn't mind if they were a mod / admin, but that's about it. If you don't feel like shipping first to me, or any other PC member, and you lose the deal because of that, that's your loss. Considering I do not see any feedback at all for you, I'm not sure how much luck you'll have telling everybody to ship first. If you had like +30 feedback, I'm sure it would work just fine, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. TechPB is one of the safest BS/T's I've ever used, but it got like that because of the rules set in place by the mods. I just think that if you are going to be selling on TechPB, you should accept the fact that PC members get a little bit of benefit. I don't think it should be something you worry about too much though, because, like I said earlier, the PC is all about security. That's seriously one of the biggest reasons it's here. Every PC member has personal info on file, and scamming would be absolutely stupid for any PC member to do. It just wouldn't end well. Hence, it doesn't really happen.

Now, please understand, I am not trying to be rude or abrasive. I'm really not trying to attack you or your question, so I hope it didn't come out like that (internet tone of voice doesn't exist, unfortunately). As a matter of fact, I'm actually just trying to reassure you that PC members are not something you should be so wary of. We have a great track record in the PC, much more so than anywhere else. Of course, you are completely free to make your own choices, but I suggest you give it a little thought before turning down a good offer from one of us.

[Paintballer_13]

Yes I understand your point very clear I and accept it I just wanted to make sure of we turned a PC user down we weren't going to be warned or something on our profile because I found that unreasonable

[-ORaNGe-]

It's pretty much been addressed but I'll explain a bit more about PC membership.

It's more than just paying $30, as has been said we have their shipping address, name, paypal info, and through the site email, IP and often given all of the info we have on them we can easily find them on Facebook and/or their phone number.

Also most PC members have been long time members and are known to the community and don't want to be booted out over a bad trade or a scam. Plus of course the ones with half a brain knowing we have all of their info won't be willing to conduct a scam and then get hammered to the wall. Here are some things I'm perfectly willing to do and have done in the past.

-Post on their Facebook wall, or have a member post on their wall all of the evidence against them which will be seen by friends, family, employers, teammates, etc.
-Message their family members
-Call their local fields and shops and have them banned
-Contact their sponsors and have them removed from their team
-Contact other teams in the area to pressure them to return the items
-Have a staffer or well known and trusted TechPB'er pick up the item at their door and inform their parents of what they've done
-Allow their info to be leaked to the TechPB community so they are bombarded with phone calls and text messages
-Have the person whose been scammed press theft charges, if you are in possession of stolen goods which have crossed state lines it's a felony
-Have them banned from MCB, PbN, and Spec Ops the same day
-Call their employer and inform them of the situation, if it's a field it's a guarantee they'll immediately be fired and banned from the field


Given all of the info we have on PC members if a regular member is unwilling to ship first to them (unless the member has immaculate feedback and the PC member has very little feedback) that person is highly suspect of being a scammer. It's like when a user is unwilling to ship first to staff or use third party, if that's the case it's pretty much a guarantee that the person is looking to conduct a scam.

For those who automatically insist "I NEVER SHIP FIRST NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE". I'm sorry but those people are idiots, what person in their right mind is going to approach this deal with 30 feedback and ship first to someone with none? That SCREAMS scam. If any user isn't willing to ship to me first, and I've done this where I offer something in their favour that's in their wanted trades and they refuse to ship first at that point I'm willing to ban them as a precaution. If you won't take a trade in your favour that you're looking for because you have to ship to me first, there is a very high risk that person is conducting a scam and they're gone, I'm not taking a risk on them it's not worth it.

[Hebiki]

old people have Life Alert... i have Orange when I BST. I feel safer already.

[TheGuy]

So if a seller is non-PC they have the options to not deal with the person or leave if they dont want to ship first?

[98Pro]

Does this only count for trades?I mean for us teenagers between practice and needing money for new gear (why we are usually selling stuff) we prolly don't have the money upfront to ship something fast enough to get our money when we need it. I mean you have to send it ground or priority for like $12 then wait for them to recieve it and send the money where as if you had it before all of that you'd have your money right then and there.

[Duke Scrotum]

I can agree with this rule.

Hey orange, could you, or would you, be willing to clarify the rules on shipping. What I mean is when someone writes in the sale thread

"once I ship the package I take no responsibility for it" or "buyer pays for insurance".

As far as I know paypal needs delivery conformation of some sort so that the seller has some proof that they indeed shipped it. Is it still the sellers responsibility until the buyer receives the package? If it is lost or damaged in the shipping process does that fall on the buyer? If the responsibility doesn't fall on the buyer shouldnt the seller be responsible for the insurance to guarantee their package is safe until it is delivered? I always ship with tracking and insurance as it costs 11$ for a flat rate box, .75 cents for delivery conformation, appx 1$ per 100$ insured, and less than 2$ for signature proof of receipt. Also anything insured for over 200$ automatically has to be signed for. It cost me 18$ to ship my Marq Closer to Florida and I didn't have to worry about a thing.


I am just asking for some clarification. Thanks.

[Duke Scrotum]

98Pro, on 10 January 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Does this only count for trades?I mean for us teenagers between practice and needing money for new gear (why we are usually selling stuff) we prolly don't have the money upfront to ship something fast enough to get our money when we need it. I mean you have to send it ground or priority for like $12 then wait for them to recieve it and send the money where as if you had it before all of that you'd have your money right then and there.

I'm pretty sure this is only for trades. I would never ship to anyone before they paid for it.