[Etek3am ftw]

i know its a stupid question but i was just wondering why no one talks about ions. i dont have one but ive never seen a chat about ion. im a newer member but still.

[PREDATOR 47]

People do talk about ions. I have one. Would you like to talk about it?

[Panda's Revenge]

Because ions are like Lord Voldemort.

We don't talk about it.

[andrewthewookie]

Ions are pretty old, and pretty low end. That's probably why.

[badger nine]

From what I understand, Ion's have pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird. The company that produced them, Smart Parts, went bankrupt so its no longer made. Another big gripe about the Ion's was that it was a money sink, there were so many upgrades available for it that a fully upped Ion could have easily $150 or more put into it. For the amount of money spent, a superior marker could've been bought.

But...techpb has discussed the Ion before...enjoy!

[Panda's Revenge]

Technically, the Ion is like the Tippmann 98 of the spool valve markers.

[nighthunter]

Ions haven't necessarily gone extinct, they've merely evolved.
Yes, Smart Parts has gone extinct, but the Ion design still exists in the form of the GoG Extcy (basically an Ion XE with a few upgrades.)

[Etek3am ftw]

but why did smart parts make crappy guns at the time. didnt they realize it? and why didnt they improve their markers?

[PREDATOR 47]

It's called Intentional Obsoletion. It's a shady business tactic SP used, but let's please not turn this into an SP hate fest.

[andrewthewookie]

Etek3am ftw, on 19 February 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

and why didnt they improve their markers?

But they did though. That's why there's the Ion Xe, Eos, Epiphany, Vibe, etc. The Ion was just the beginning; it's also the only one that gets remembered by lots of people.

[Orange Chicken]

We talk about extcys so much here, however, and they are the successors to the ion, if that counts. But the ion is old, outdated, and overlooked due to the new guns nowadays. Plus, we dont talk about a lot of things. I see a post about a spyder victor or fenix here as often as you do an ion: nearly never.

[tallsmallboy44]

Orange Chicken, on 19 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

But the ion is old, outdated, .

The eXTCy, G1, eNVy, and eNMEy all use the Ion bolt, and the Rail uses one similar.

[Orange Chicken]

tallsmallboy44, on 19 February 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Orange Chicken, on 19 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

But the ion is old, outdated, .

The eXTCy, G1, eNVy, and eNMEy all use the Ion bolt, and the Rail uses one similar.

No I mean like the ion, as in the ion, is old and outdated by those exact guns. Silly, I love the ion designs, even to the point of being sponsor- nvm.

[AceComets]

because who wants to rag on dogshit products from a company that doesn't exist in anything but memories and dated paperwork, when we can all rag on new dogshit products

it's a win win for everyone




____________________________




and because if you search for threads about the Ion, it turns into a shit talking, everyone's-a-businessman, lets hate on the garders thread

and those do tend to get old haha

[Kevin]

Its like asking why arent there constantly threads about the Zap ZXS-600E? I mean, its so beautiful and funtional and unique, why not?

[andrewthewookie]

Because it's a Zap and you're weird for liking it.

[Orange Chicken]

Marker Quality and Consumer Effectiveness with the product > Company ethics and history

I could honestly care less about the company, if the gun is good, I'll sure as hell use it if I could afford it. The ion system is a damn good system for the price range it caters to, and so I'll use it. My only gripe was the lack of on off asa and clamping feedneck, I'd let the BoB pass since it was $160 then. Did it bother me because of the company? No. Did it bother me because on/off the field it mattered? Yeah, sure.
Again, it bothers me when people are all like: "Oh I'll NE-HEH-EVER buy anything from the Gardner Brothers!" or "Smart Parts is bad for paintball, and GoG is just a name to sneak themselves into paintball. Don't buy GoG products, it's bad for the industry".

I know we have all our grudges, but does winning or in game effectiveness not mean anything to people now? Is it all morals and honor? I understand that Smart Parts wasn't exactly the nicest back then, but on the field, does it really matter? Because competition gives less shits about all of that. Call me materialistic or hard-headed; I'll say I'm practical, and rigidly driven and goal oriented.

/rant

This post has been edited by Orange Chicken: 20 February 2013 - 02:12 AM

[unfated33]

Orange Chicken, on 20 February 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Marker Quality and Consumer Effectiveness with the product > Company ethics and history

I could honestly care less about the company, if the gun is good, I'll sure as hell use it if I could afford it. The ion system is a damn good system for the price range it caters to, and so I'll use it. My only gripe was the lack of on off asa and clamping feedneck, I'd let the BoB pass since it was $160 then. Did it bother me because of the company? No. Did it bother me because on/off the field it mattered? Yeah, sure.
Again, it bothers me when people are all like: "Oh I'll NE-HEH-EVER buy anything from the Gardner Brothers!" or "Smart Parts is bad for paintball, and GoG is just a name to sneak themselves into paintball. Don't buy GoG products, it's bad for the industry".

I know we have all our grudges, but does winning or in game effectiveness not mean anything to people now? Is it all morals and honor? I understand that Smart Parts wasn't exactly the nicest back then, but on the field, does it really matter? Because competition gives less shits about all of that. Call me materialistic or hard-headed; I'll say I'm practical, and rigidly driven and goal oriented.

/rant

And yet.... Smart Parts sold the Magic Box, which ostensibly did little more than let you violate fps limits. Smart parts said the all-american barrel would impart spin upon a ball leaving the marker because of the way the air would leave the spiral porting (turns out, it comes out straight). So when you have a company that lies to you about its products and charges a bunch of money for those lies, how do you know when you're getting a Shocker (Ion XE? G1? I was trying to come up with a stellar product, but aside from price, they all have the unifying theme of being "upgraderrific") and how do you know when you're getting a magic box? Considering the overall market for marginally effective after-market parts, the paintball community as a whole has very little ability to recognize snake oil when it sees it.

I don't think you can or should separate equipment quality from company ethics and history; if you do, at the very least don't make it an all-or-nothing game of, "The eXTCy is a great marker for the price, so nothing bad the Gardners did matters." It matters, it just may not matter for a very narrow window of time during the sale of the eXTCy.

[PREDATOR 47]

Orange Chicken, on 20 February 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Marker Quality and Consumer Effectiveness with the product > Company ethics and historyI could honestly care less about the company, if the gun is good, I'll sure as hell use it if I could afford it. The ion system is a damn good system for the price range it caters to, and so I'll use it. My only gripe was the lack of on off asa and clamping feedneck, I'd let the BoB pass since it was $160 then. Did it bother me because of the company? No. Did it bother me because on/off the field it mattered? Yeah, sure.Again, it bothers me when people are all like: "Oh I'll NE-HEH-EVER buy anything from the Gardner Brothers!" or "Smart Parts is bad for paintball, and GoG is just a name to sneak themselves into paintball. Don't buy GoG products, it's bad for the industry".I know we have all our grudges, but does winning or in game effectiveness not mean anything to people now? Is it all morals and honor? I understand that Smart Parts wasn't exactly the nicest back then, but on the field, does it really matter? Because competition gives less shits about all of that. Call me materialistic or hard-headed; I'll say I'm practical, and rigidly driven and goal oriented./rant

Actually, the Ion XE had an MSRP of $234.95 when it was released. I would know, I bought one. I also had to buy a new feedneck the same day because the original broke and it got busted up removing it because it was red loctited on. And the stock Ion ASA absolutely devoured tank threads, but I digress. The Ion was a decent shooter, but with the missing features it just wasn't quite there. IMO, the eXTCy is what the Ion should have been.

unfated33, on 20 February 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

And yet.... Smart Parts sold the Magic Box, which ostensibly did little more than let you violate fps limits. Smart parts said the all-american barrel would impart spin upon a ball leaving the marker because of the way the air would leave the spiral porting (turns out, it comes out straight). So when you have a company that lies to you about its products and charges a bunch of money for those lies, how do you know when you're getting a Shocker (Ion XE? G1? I was trying to come up with a stellar product, but aside from price, they all have the unifying theme of being "upgraderrific") and how do you know when you're getting a magic box? Considering the overall market for marginally effective after-market parts, the paintball community as a whole has very little ability to recognize snake oil when it sees it.I don't think you can or should separate equipment quality from company ethics and history; if you do, at the very least don't make it an all-or-nothing game of, "The eXTCy is a great marker for the price, so nothing bad the Gardners did matters." It matters, it just may not matter for a very narrow window of time during the sale of the eXTCy.

Alright, we get it. Every time someone mentions anything Smart Parts we hear you write a novel about how evil they are. Everyone has heard it at least a million times from all sorts of people. And every time you post we get to read it in your sig. Could you please not go on a rant every time you feel the need to punch a dead horse in the neck?

[unfated33]

PREDATOR 47, on 20 February 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Orange Chicken, on 20 February 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Marker Quality and Consumer Effectiveness with the product > Company ethics and historyI could honestly care less about the company, if the gun is good, I'll sure as hell use it if I could afford it. The ion system is a damn good system for the price range it caters to, and so I'll use it. My only gripe was the lack of on off asa and clamping feedneck, I'd let the BoB pass since it was $160 then. Did it bother me because of the company? No. Did it bother me because on/off the field it mattered? Yeah, sure.Again, it bothers me when people are all like: "Oh I'll NE-HEH-EVER buy anything from the Gardner Brothers!" or "Smart Parts is bad for paintball, and GoG is just a name to sneak themselves into paintball. Don't buy GoG products, it's bad for the industry".I know we have all our grudges, but does winning or in game effectiveness not mean anything to people now? Is it all morals and honor? I understand that Smart Parts wasn't exactly the nicest back then, but on the field, does it really matter? Because competition gives less shits about all of that. Call me materialistic or hard-headed; I'll say I'm practical, and rigidly driven and goal oriented./rant

Actually, the Ion XE had an MSRP of $234.95 when it was released. I would know, I bought one. I also had to buy a new feedneck the same day because the original broke and it got busted up removing it because it was red loctited on. And the stock Ion ASA absolutely devoured tank threads, but I digress. The Ion was a decent shooter, but with the missing features it just wasn't quite there. IMO, the eXTCy is what the Ion should have been.

unfated33, on 20 February 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

And yet.... Smart Parts sold the Magic Box, which ostensibly did little more than let you violate fps limits. Smart parts said the all-american barrel would impart spin upon a ball leaving the marker because of the way the air would leave the spiral porting (turns out, it comes out straight). So when you have a company that lies to you about its products and charges a bunch of money for those lies, how do you know when you're getting a Shocker (Ion XE? G1? I was trying to come up with a stellar product, but aside from price, they all have the unifying theme of being "upgraderrific") and how do you know when you're getting a magic box? Considering the overall market for marginally effective after-market parts, the paintball community as a whole has very little ability to recognize snake oil when it sees it.I don't think you can or should separate equipment quality from company ethics and history; if you do, at the very least don't make it an all-or-nothing game of, "The eXTCy is a great marker for the price, so nothing bad the Gardners did matters." It matters, it just may not matter for a very narrow window of time during the sale of the eXTCy.

Alright, we get it. Every time someone mentions anything Smart Parts we hear you write a novel about how evil they are. Everyone has heard it at least a million times from all sorts of people. And every time you post we get to read it in your sig. Could you please not go on a rant every time you feel the need to punch a dead horse in the neck?

Sigs change - I think mine's been that for about a week only. I'm hardly the smart parts anti-crusader - I read a completely different point from my personal sig and the message I typed, but point taken if the message is getting lost because I'm perceived as the rage ranter against SP. Next week we can talk about the Proton and the G5.