[TaintedEvil]

By the look of that data sheet I'd say that Ninja is 1st with Crossfire at a close 2nd.

[Dragon1291]

Well you would hope that most tank mfg's quality control is good enough for just one sample. I mean, really, the most they would need to test is 5 regs of the same brand. I would think that would be a hassel to take off the big gages.

[Nate 660]

cockerpunk, on Aug 17 2009, 10:33 PM, said:

Chace365, on Aug 17 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

cockerpunk, on Aug 17 2009, 09:28 PM, said:

Chace365, on Aug 17 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Can I make a suggestion on the tank regs you and Bryce use?

when we can do it, sure. we dont have a transducer, and its not in the near future, so ... yeah ...

Oh. I assumed it was going to be in the near future.
Do you have an estimate as to when you can obtain a transducer?

next time we have a lot of money and the time to dink around with it and buy a DAQ. you typically need to write code and such or run Matlab or something, which i dont have a license for.

its a ways off.

Fuck MATLAB, that program is hell when you are expected to teach yourself =D

[brycelarson]

Dragon1291, on Aug 18 2009, 12:39 AM, said:

Well you would hope that most tank mfg's quality control is good enough for just one sample. I mean, really, the most they would need to test is 5 regs of the same brand. I would think that would be a hassel to take off the big gages.

The test isn't that bad - our version comes in at 10 minutes a tank - once we're set up. We feel that what we're really testing is the design - not the quality control of a manufacturer. I'm sure that the differences from reg to reg would mostly be in output pressure - you know, some regs are slightly higher, some slightly lower. With the designs the same - the behavior should be very similar from reg to reg.

For example, the Myth reg - it was very stable in our 5 minute test - which is the good part of the design. It fluctuated a ton each show (second video) - which is the under-damped part of the design. We would expect other Myths to react similarly.

[CrazyLittle]

mmmm why did the Myth creep downwards in pressure?

[brycelarson]

CrazyLittle, on Aug 18 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

mmmm why did the Myth creep downwards in pressure?

our theory is tank cooling. We filled the tanks - they warmed a bit, then we let them settle to close to room temp. They likely cooled a bit more over the 5 minutes.

[Special Ed]

Good data, thanks again.

It is interesting that the GA Myth has such a large variability of output pressure after each shot. It would be interesting to see how that affects recharge rate (as well as to know the recharge rate).

[brycelarson]

Special Ed, on Aug 18 2009, 10:13 AM, said:

Good data, thanks again.

It is interesting that the GA Myth has such a large variability of output pressure after each shot. It would be interesting to see how that affects recharge rate (as well as to know the recharge rate).

we think it's fast - really, really fast - which is part of the problem. it's sort of lost the ability to self-correct. So, the question is - is a 160 psi swing every other shot going to hurt your gun's performance? I don't know. It seems like it might.

[Z3R0]

I guess that would then depend on the input/output ratio of your inline reg... something with a really flat curve would be a good choice with a Myth then. And I'm guessing running a Myth on something unregulated might give you odd results (unregged Spyder or Tippmann for example)...

-Z3R0

[Lament]

What kind of PMI reg did you use? Was it a PSI PMI, a Chinese version of the PSI PMI, or the newer Reactor? Also, what did you do with each reg? I mean, were they brand new, put on a tank and off you went? Were they donated by other local users, so there is no telling how much use they have had? If it was the second, were they cleaned and lubed before your test, or left as they were?

Good test, I guess. Something else that you can do, that would be easily enough to check, would be show the output pressure of each tank, at various pressures. Such as show when the tanks are filled at 4500 PSI, and then what each output pressure is as the tank is emptied. you can do 100 PSI intervals, or maybe 500 PSI intervals. As I understand, each reg will actually drop in pressure output as the tank pressure drops, and I have heard that in can drop a couple of hundred PSI over the typical usage of the tank.

I actually have had a similar idea as doing that last test, but with my $5 (Retail) small gauges that you find on the tanks and can get for other equipment (I just got a 1200 PSI gauge), I am pretty sure that you guys are going to get a better reading than I will.

TaintedEvil, on Aug 17 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

By the look of that data sheet I'd say that Ninja is 1st with Crossfire at a close 2nd.

I may be reading the graph and spreadsheet wrong, but I would say that the Myth is actually a more accurate 2nd, with the Crossfire being a very close 3rd to the Myth. Afterall, the Ninja stayed at the output pressure the whole five minutes. The Myth started at it's pressure, raised up 10 PSI after the first 30 seconds, stayed there for 30 seconds, then settled back down to 700 PSI for the remainder of the time. The Crossfire started at 780 PSI, raised up to about 790 PSI after 30 seconds, then raised up to 800 PSI, until the last minute, when it raised up to 810 PSI, and stayed there until the end.

I know that CP thinks that Myths are junk, but how about a video showing the outputs of the other regs? It is easy to slew others opinions if you only show one reg having the 160 PSI variance, and now show the others being more consistent, if that is what you are trying to claim.

*EDIT* I misspoke, the Dye would actually be a close 3rd place and the Crossfire being in 4th place. The Dye reg raised up 20 PSI in the first 30 seconds, and then stayed there.

This post has been edited by Lament: 18 August 2009 - 11:10 AM

[brycelarson]

Lament, on Aug 18 2009, 11:02 AM, said:

Good test, I guess. Something else that you can do, that would be easily enough to check, would be show the output pressure of each tank, at various pressures. Such as show when the tanks are filled at 4500 PSI, and then what each output pressure is as the tank is emptied.

we did that - take a look at the link to the data sheet - there is a set of tank pressures to reg output pressures

Lament, on Aug 18 2009, 11:02 AM, said:

I know that CP thinks that Myths are junk, but how about a video showing the outputs of the other regs? It is easy to slew others opinions if you only show one reg having the 160 PSI variance, and now show the others being more consistent, if that is what you are trying to claim.

None of the other regs bounced around when we shot - just dropped to the bottom pressure that you see on the creep test - then did whatever is shown on the graph. IE - the Ninja bounced low, then came back up and stayed there. The PMI dropped then slowly increased - as the graph shows.

[UV Halo]

brycelarson, on Aug 18 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

we think it's fast - really, really fast - which is part of the problem. it's sort of lost the ability to self-correct. So, the question is - is a 160 psi swing every other shot going to hurt your gun's performance? I don't know. It seems like it might.

I think the answer to this question will depend upon the secondary/inline reg's input output ratio. For example, if the GA Myth tank was hooked up a gun with a Palmer's Fatty Stabilizer (advertized as a 92:1 ratio) then, you'll see a 1.7PSI jump to your breech from shot to shot. So, on-gun performance may be dependent upon the tank and inline reg combo. This may explain why I get great FPS consistancy (ref's frequently comment on it) when I'm running my Dye Throttle fed into my Ion via a AKA 2Liter+ Dual reg.

So, I suggest that the next test be on inline regs :-D

good Job guys!

[IhaveNoSoul]

does the myth reg suck that bad that i should buy a new one like a ninja?

This post has been edited by IhaveNoSoul: 18 August 2009 - 11:01 PM

[orangataun]

Were all the regs broken in past that 1 case mark or whatever it is? I know my PE sucked for consistency until after about a case and a half, then it got pretty tight.

[brycelarson]

orangataun, on Aug 18 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

Were all the regs broken in past that 1 case mark or whatever it is? I know my PE sucked for consistency until after about a case and a half, then it got pretty tight.

yes, and how do you know?

[orangataun]

I was using it on my a-5 before i got my ego and my velocity was everywhere for that first case.

[brycelarson]

orangataun, on Aug 19 2009, 06:59 AM, said:

I was using it on my a-5 before i got my ego and my velocity was everywhere for that first case.

I will suggest, sight unseen, that you were shooting bad paint for the first case.

[orangataun]

i used the same paint the next time, so unless the batch to batch was horrendous and i didnt notice (which i check my paint) i doubt the 20 fps range dropping to about 8 fps range from there on out would be due to paint.

[brycelarson]

orangataun, on Aug 19 2009, 07:06 AM, said:

i used the same paint the next time, so unless the batch to batch was horrendous and i didnt notice (which i check my paint) i doubt the 20 fps range dropping to about 8 fps range from there on out would be due to paint.

sure, it's possible. The reason I'm always skeptical of things like this is that no-one has ever shown me data that there is a break-in period on things like this. In fact, if you're just going off a few shots over a chrono - then you don't really know.

As to paint - yes, I've seen bigger swings due only to paint - especially if you were shooting a barrel close to the size of the paint.

[Lament]

My thought to that is that the reg is going to need you using it more than only one case to actually break in. I am uncertain as to the specifics, but I would think that, much like many of the markers out there, it would need the equivalent of 10 cases to be broken in properly. And yes, same paint, from batch to batch, and even sometimes, with lower end paint, in the same batch, do vary quite a bit.