[tripp]

i need HARD DATA, proving to my friend here. his thoughts at the moment
Carbon fiber Barrels are more accurate
16" barrels Shoot farther
the Deathstick is better than a properly bored Dye UL


ive told him over and over, a barrel has almost nothing to do with accuracy when it comes to length(prividing its not 2" long),
and all you need for a good barrel is a long control bore equally bored to your paint

[andrewthewookie]

You've got the right idea, except that you'll want to overbore or underbore. The bore size won't affect accuracy, but it will affect consistency. Both underboring and overboring will be a bit more consistent than a bore match.

[brycelarson]

http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=37
http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=36
http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=31
http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=21
http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=16
http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=32
http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=26

[tripp]

are there any graphs or data charts that can prove this? its what my friends really wanna see, not just some words or a video

[cockerpunk]

click the "see the data" tab

[tripp]

wow thanks guys, between the experiment vault and bryces link sill have no problem proving the date at the field

[oldnewb]

tripp, on 28 October 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

i need HARD DATA, proving to my friend here. his thoughts at the moment
Carbon fiber Barrels are more accurate
16" barrels Shoot farther
the Deathstick is better than a properly bored Dye UL


ive told him over and over, a barrel has almost nothing to do with accuracy when it comes to length(prividing its not 2" long),
and all you need for a good barrel is a long control bore equally bored to your paint

You know, if you show your friend hard data, that'll just ruin the placebo effect that he's got going for him right now. Right now, he's hitting what he's aiming at, because HE BELIEVES his setup is the most accurate setup. If you show him the hard data, it's like explaining the laws of gravity to the Road Runner. Afterwards, he won't be able to run across open chasms in mid-air.

Let him maintain his ignorance... I mean, "innocence". He'll be happier that way.

Wait a sec... does anyone under the age of 30 even know what cartoon I'm referring to?

[sticktodrum]

^Old people are old. Looney Toons still play on TV old guy. As for the placebo effect, it's not exactly as you think it is.

[Molybdenum]

oldnewb, on 28 October 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

You know, if you show your friend hard data, that'll just ruin the placebo effect that he's got going for him right now. Right now, he's hitting what he's aiming at, because HE BELIEVES his setup is the most accurate setup. If you show him the hard data, it's like explaining the laws of gravity to the Road Runner. Afterwards, he won't be able to run across open chasms in mid-air.

Let him maintain his ignorance... I mean, "innocence". He'll be happier that way.

Wait a sec... does anyone under the age of 30 even know what cartoon I'm referring to?

I know what cartoon your talking about!

You bring up a really interesting point. I wonder if we can subconsciously make a barrel more accurate on a measurable level (obviously in a manually fired as opposed to a clamped gun test). Its entirely possible that guns could have varying accuracy (not consistency, in this case) to different shooter simply because of a mental or physiological aspect that makes the shooter more or less comfortable shooting that particular marker..

[brycelarson]

Molybdenum, on 28 October 2011 - 06:23 PM, said:

Its entirely possible that guns could have varying accuracy (not consistency, in this case) to different shooter simply because of a mental or physiological aspect that makes the shooter more or less comfortable shooting that particular marker..

there's no doubt that being able to hold and shoot a gun comfortably is a massive part of accuracy. The ergonomics of the gun play a huge part in how well you're able to use it. It doesn't matter how accurate a system is if you can't use the accuracy effectively.

[98Pro]

Many things affect accuracy like how much a gun kicks. I can one ball the same pole alll day but can I shoot a stream at it? No. Pretty much what will always be the same granted tyhe barrel, loader, breech, etc is clean and you're shooting good paint, the width of your spread should be great even with a tippy. Now if your consistency is bad (which with a good tank even a tippy can get +/- 3-4, I've seen it with a rental and Empire Heat... so yeah) your shots will be all over the place height wise. Also some guns to my understanding simply don't shoot as far as others due to physics in the gun this may be due to the fact of how the air flow in a stacked tube poppet goes straight up and may cause the ball to spin downwards, IDK but some guns don't shoot the same distance

Dude I'm 15 and have grown up on looney tunes, that shit was way better than even "classic" disney shit.

This post has been edited by 98Pro: 30 October 2011 - 08:06 PM

[brycelarson]

98Pro, on 30 October 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Also some guns to my understanding simply don't shoot as far as others due to physics in the gun this may be due to the fact of how the air flow in a stacked tube poppet goes straight up and may cause the ball to spin downwards, IDK but some guns don't shoot the same distance

Dude I'm 15 and have grown up on looney tunes, that shit was way better than even "classic" disney shit.

most of what you said is correct - a 98 shooting well will shoot just as accurately as anything else out there. The part I've quoted is just flat out wrong. It's hard to believe sometimes but if the ball is leaving at the same velocity from the barrel it's going to fly the same. The only systems out there that can really effect the flight of the ball are the flatline and the apex - and they put spin on it. A lot of spin - like 35,000 rpm.

[98Pro]

SHOW ME THE DATA! I saw one test but it was all guns I hear shoot far. The guns that I hear fall short are the Timmies, Ego's, and Angels.

Also I wasn't lying about growing up on Looney Tunes

This post has been edited by 98Pro: 31 October 2011 - 07:01 PM

[Cookybiscuit]

98Pro, on 31 October 2011 - 07:00 PM, said:

SHOW ME THE DATA! I saw one test but it was all guns I hear shoot far. The guns that I hear fall short are the Timmies, Ego's, and Angels.

Pretty sure all guns shoot just as far as each-other unless some form of spin on the ball is produced or its at a different FPS.

[98Pro]

Pretty sure isn't good enough show me proof. I'm going off D2 players that have been playing for 16 years so their word currently is the best proof if Punkworks will do a test with a wide range of markers (wink wink) I will believe otherwise.

[andrewthewookie]

98Pro, on 31 October 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

Pretty sure isn't good enough show me proof. I'm going off D2 players that have been playing for 16 years so their word currently is the best proof if Punkworks will do a test with a wide range of markers (wink wink) I will believe otherwise.

Let me give you a lesson in physics. Any object in motion will continue that motion unless acted upon by outside forces. In this case, the paintball is flying, and the outside forces are gravity and drag. That's it. Once it leaves the barrel, it immediately slows down due to drag, and drops due to gravity. A paintball traveling at 300 fps will have the same (basic) trajectory as any other paintball fired at 300 fps. I say "basic trajectory" because no two paintballs will fly exactly the same due to their surface shape and finish, but that's just drag affecting them. There's nothing to debate, it's pure physics. He can say what he sees as much as he wants, but paintballs cannot go against he laws of physics. The only thing that can affect the flight of the paintball on the gun is something that puts spin on the paintball, like an Apex or a Flatline.

In short, the only way to change the distance traveled by the paint is to either change the velocity of the gun, or add lots of backspin.

This post has been edited by andrewthewookie: 31 October 2011 - 07:36 PM

[98Pro]

Well couldn't say something with a directly straight air flow (say a Spool or inline poppet) have less spin on the ball than say an ego where the air must go up and flow to the ball. Think about it, stacked tube poppets are the only ones effected. The air moving throught the gun abides by the laws of physics as well so therefore there are forces acting in there which are very hard to say what's going on. I am of course refering to how the air goes straight up and over the ball without truly being an even flow like a spoolie. So until you can disprove it you're wrong. That's how science works. If it hasn't been tested it's rarely fact. There are more variables than what are being stated. All I'm asking is if Punkworks will test it. Not a terribly hard test just something to disprove or prove something.( I though that's what they did, or atleast I thought)

This post has been edited by 98Pro: 31 October 2011 - 07:52 PM

[OEFVeteran]

there are a couple guys at my field that swear that a higher dwell will shoot farther then a gun with a lower dwell even if both of them are crono'd at say 280FPS.... also that a lower dwell setting, still crono'd at 280FPS will not shoot as far....

would be interesting to see a test involving this... though physics dont usually lie, given our currant understand of them...

This post has been edited by OEFVeteran: 31 October 2011 - 08:11 PM

[andrewthewookie]

98Pro, on 31 October 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well couldn't say something with a directly straight air flow (say a Spool or inline poppet) have less spin on the ball than say an ego where the air must go up and flow to the ball. Think about it, stacked tube poppets are the only ones effected. The air moving throught the gun abides by the laws of physics as well so therefore there are forces acting in there which are very hard to say what's going on. I am of course refering to how the air goes straight up and over the ball without truly being an even flow like a spoolie. So until you can disprove it you're wrong. That's how science works. If it hasn't been tested it's rarely fact. There are more variables than what are being stated. All I'm asking is if Punkworks will test it. Not a terribly hard test just something to disprove or prove something.( I though that's what they did, or atleast I thought)

Um, no, that's not how science works. Those making the claims must first prove it before it's accepted. I can sit here all day and not have to disprove anything, because nothing's been proven in the first place.

It doesn't matter where the air comes from, when it expands behind the paintball, it's very hard to impart spin. Even the bolts specifically designed to direct the airflow to one specific part of the bolt have been shown to have no effect, so it can be extrapolated that normal bolts will have no effect as well.

[cockerpunk]

98Pro, on 31 October 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well couldn't say something with a directly straight air flow (say a Spool or inline poppet) have less spin on the ball than say an ego where the air must go up and flow to the ball. Think about it, stacked tube poppets are the only ones effected. The air moving throught the gun abides by the laws of physics as well so therefore there are forces acting in there which are very hard to say what's going on. I am of course refering to how the air goes straight up and over the ball without truly being an even flow like a spoolie. So until you can disprove it you're wrong. That's how science works. If it hasn't been tested it's rarely fact. There are more variables than what are being stated. All I'm asking is if Punkworks will test it. Not a terribly hard test just something to disprove or prove something.( I though that's what they did, or atleast I thought)

we have never seen preferential spin from a poppet valved gun - even with a backspin bolt system.