[brycelarson]

IhasAcellular, on 25 January 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

Naw, MCB will just say it takes 30 cases to break in a gun.

We do expect that argument. Not necessarily from MCB. It's quite reasonable really. I don't know that a good argument can be made for that break in leading to significan performance change, but I can see the reasoning behind the argument.

[Proxydust]

I actually think that the spool valve will have a larger break in...... they have a TON of orings....... i could be totally wrong


also..... you could do a double blind test with this


get 2 G6Rs with the same amount of shots...tell a person its a BNIB G6R and then give them the other and say it has like 50k shots and see which one they think is smoother

This post has been edited by Proxydust: 25 January 2011 - 04:40 PM

[danath 34]

brycelarson, on 25 January 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

danath 34, on 25 January 2011 - 11:02 AM, said:

I did have one question, though. What happened at shot #346? It appears as if something was changed causing a few low chrony shots and higher SD values. However, this could be caused by paint size variation. Also what was shot #347? Was it a low shot? Is that why it was left blank?

the blanks are when we missed a chrono reading. Usually it's when the second eye on the chrono didn't see the ball. It happens sometimes. shots 61, 85, 320, 347 etc.

I kinda see what you're saying about 346 - but actually it's only 3 lower than 345. All guns have odd shots from time to time. This one is no different. I wouldn't try to read too much into any one shot - it's the means and SD data from groups of shots that really starts to have meaning.

yeah I was trying to get an idea of why the SD seemed to jump higher at that shot. But I can imagine the occasional oddball shots would do that sort of thing to a rolling SD.

Also thinking about the comment cockerpunk made about how sometimes cleaning the gun made it better, sometimes worse... I probably just missed it somewhere, but what was the method/schedule for cleaning the gun? Did you do it every x shots, or did you do it when you noticed consistency issues, etc? Because one test that would be interesting to do would be to test how often you really do have to break down and clean the gun. This is a widely debated topic. Some people clean their gun after every day of play religiously, some people do it once a year. I would be interested to see an experiment testing this. Maybe split it up into a couple/few tests. You could do one test for the reg(s), one test for easy to get to internals (such as the ram) and another test for the less easy to reach internals (such as valves). But this is likely a topic for a whole 'nother thread...

[brycelarson]

cleaning schedule was based on what was suggested in the manual. we did a clean of the bolt and upper tube every case before chrono. We cleaned and lubed the ram and oiled the bolt o-rings every three cases. We rebuilt the ram after 10 cases. There was no wear showing - but we wanted to see what would happen to the performance after putting new o-rings in.

[betasniper]

Have you tried quad rings on the ram? Or would you consider that a waste of time?

[brycelarson]

betasniper, on 26 January 2011 - 12:27 AM, said:

Have you tried quad rings on the ram? Or would you consider that a waste of time?

we weren't really trying to do anything to the gun to gain performance. This was a test around break-in. We intentionally didn't change a thing. Just pulled it out of the box, aired it up and started shooting over the chrono.

I would certainly be interested to see if they have an effect on anything - but that's more a test for tinkering with a gun to see if you can improve performance.

[RIP-Buttercup]

Towards the end of the video you mention adjusting if it gets way out of range. Did this occur? Looking at case 6 data shows a slight fps increase right before cleaning. Could you go into what parts you cleaned/replaced.

Like the efficiency, question the consistency of the G6R, or was this your paint?

[brycelarson]

RIP-Buttercup, on 26 January 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

Towards the end of the video you mention adjusting if it gets way out of range. Did this occur? Looking at case 6 data shows a slight fps increase right before cleaning. Could you go into what parts you cleaned/replaced.

Like the efficiency, question the consistency of the G6R, or was this your paint?

we didn't have to adjust. We were going to let the gun do what it was going to do - unless it got WAY out of range - like >350 <220.

There's always going to be a "noise floor" from paint. Variations in the 10-14 range for SDs of samples isn't all that odd. In this case we were shooting basically a paint-to-bore match with good but not great paint. I think moving to an under or overbore with excellent paint would tighten that range up significantly. Again, we're trying to test in a very real world situation - not trying to squeeze performance out of the gun. This paint was paint that I would gladly shoot.

[Schuppert3]

So you think its varies with different guns at all? I mean guns with different design's could have different results?

[brycelarson]

Schuppert3, on 28 January 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

So you think its varies with different guns at all? I mean guns with different design's could have different results?

we're doing the NT11 next. We think that if there is a difference in guns we should see it when looking at poppet v spool. The number of dynamic o-rings is quite different.

[IhasAcellular]

brycelarson, on 30 January 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

Schuppert3, on 28 January 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

So you think its varies with different guns at all? I mean guns with different design's could have different results?

we're doing the NT11 next. We think that if there is a difference in guns we should see it when looking at poppet v spool. The number of dynamic o-rings is quite different.

Is it possible that we are looking at the wrong thing? Maby its not the orings that "break in". Any chance that its the springs inside the marker becoming less....springy?

This post has been edited by IhasAcellular: 31 January 2011 - 02:23 AM

[brycelarson]

IhasAcellular, on 31 January 2011 - 02:22 AM, said:

Is it possible that we are looking at the wrong thing? Maby its not the orings that "break in". Any chance that its the springs inside the marker becoming less....springy?

we're not looking at the parts - we're looking at the performance. In this case a huge majority of any performance change happened in 90-ish shots. We don't know what exactly created this change - but if it's o-rings then it's possible that the spoolie will have a larger change in performance. Don't know till we shoot it.

[UV Halo]

You guys by chance do not have any pre break-in photos of the internals?

I ask because one of the pics, you can clearly see the line on the oring where the flash (excess material) was. Some orings are better than others and, a before/after comparison would be a good thing to see. For example, maybe there was excess material on the oring that was worn off in the first '90ish' shots.

[brycelarson]

UV Halo, on 31 January 2011 - 04:45 PM, said:

You guys by chance do not have any pre break-in photos of the internals?

I ask because one of the pics, you can clearly see the line on the oring where the flash (excess material) was. Some orings are better than others and, a before/after comparison would be a good thing to see. For example, maybe there was excess material on the oring that was worn off in the first '90ish' shots.

no we don't have any. I think you might be reading too much into the ones we did post. In person I would say the opposite - the o-rings appear to have no wear.

[Doyle]

Edit: I found the NT11 thread, the search function had failed me.

http://www.techpb.co...howtopic=133970

There is the link for all those who wanted to compare like me.

This post has been edited by Doyle: 21 June 2011 - 04:03 AM