[MrEeske]

Since the Tippmann C3 uses combusted propane gas to expel a projectile (our humble paintballs ), doesn't this classify it as a firearm in USA?

U.S. Code, Title 18, Chapter 44 (Firearms), Subsection 921:

Quote

The term "firearm" means
( A ) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
( B ) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
( C ) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
( D ) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

This laws within this chapter is also what killed Barrels of America's "The Concealer" barrel due to it technically being defined as a silencer.

Has anyone had any experience with legal issues of the Tippmann C3, or has some evidence/rulings that show that the C3 is not classified as a firearm?

[TK-421]

I think it's technically considered a "toy" instead of a "weapon", at least that's what I'm thinking.

[UV Halo]

I have not heard of any intersection between Tippmann and the ATF (or other Law Enforcement entities) due to the C3. While it is true to the letter of the law, I'm sure the ATF was not really concerned about it.

In regards to Silencers however, a federal court of appeals overturned the conviction of a man who shipped an airgun silencer through the mail (with it's airgun). The reason being was that the court found that the government failed to prove that the silencer was “for” a firearm.

[MrEeske]

Thanks for the case info, regarding the airgun silencer. I wonder if that could be used as legal precedent for the lawful production, sale, and possession of marker silencers?

I'd like to read up on the case, UV. Do you happen to have any details like who, when, or where it happened, so I could search for more details about it?

[MrEeske]

Found the story... http://www.masslive....es_15-year.html

Ok, so he's not going to be a folk hero within the paintball community, but the point about the airgun silencer being legal is still there.

Anyways, thanks for the tip.

[UV Halo]

MrEeske, on 10 November 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

...I wonder if that could be used as legal precedent for the lawful production, sale, and possession of marker silencers?...

MrEeske, on 10 November 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

...Ok, so he's not going to be a folk hero within the paintball community, but the point about the airgun silencer being legal is still there.

Anyways, thanks for the tip.

I think one (a potential manufacturer) could take two points from that whole event:
1. They've only charged/convicted one individual who already had a criminal record and was being charged (and was subsequently convicted) for other crimes as well.

2. Even a bad egg was able to get a conviction like this overturned.

Other things for a manufacturer to consider:
TM-15 Foregrip/Shroud & (especially) SP8 Stealth Shroud- Successfully manufactured and sold

The risk- yeah, it takes time and money to defend one's self from charges, even if you're in the right.

[MrEeske]

UV Halo, on 10 November 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

I think one (a potential manufacturer) could take two points from that whole event:

I like your "silver lining" thinking.

[KCMECustoms]

Any item that fires a projectile in some states is considered a firearm thats why walmart cannot and will not sell paintball guns or airsoft guns to anyone under 18.

[Latsabb]

KCMECustoms, on 11 November 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

Any item that fires a projectile in some states is considered a firearm thats why walmart cannot and will not sell paintball guns or airsoft guns to anyone under 18.

They comin for mah nerf guns!

[y0da900]

Because propane is not an explosive, it is a combustible/flammable. Notice that it says act of an explosive, not act of an explosion (which has a wider range of meaning, including pneumatically generated)

ATF list of explosives.

[ecoballer]

corect me if im wrong but the c3 cannot kill anyone with out mods but stock i think it apply's under the same laws as a handheld tazer you can buy them legally if your over 18 just about anywhere

[KCMECustoms]

^ it can acheive lethal velocity.

[Panda Man]

Latsabb, on 11 November 2011 - 11:20 AM, said:

KCMECustoms, on 11 November 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

Any item that fires a projectile in some states is considered a firearm thats why walmart cannot and will not sell paintball guns or airsoft guns to anyone under 18.

They comin for mah nerf guns!

HHAHAHAH SIR! you just been siged!

[MrEeske]

y0da900, on 12 November 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Because propane is not an explosive, it is a combustible/flammable. Notice that it says act of an explosive, not act of an explosion (which has a wider range of meaning, including pneumatically generated)

ATF list of explosives.

Much knowledge you have. Thanks for the share; I wasn't aware of the exact distinction between the vocabulary. That's what I get for assuming.

[pb=life]

ecoballer, on 12 November 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

corect me if im wrong but the c3 cannot kill anyone with out mods but stock i think it apply's under the same laws as a handheld tazer you can buy them legally if your over 18 just about anywhere

you could hit them in a lethal spot (temple) and kill them, very unlikely but it could happen. You can also crank up the velocity a ton and be dangerous. When dumbass kids shoot pedestrians with paintball guns they can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon

[Zenoah]

pb=life, on 17 November 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

ecoballer, on 12 November 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

corect me if im wrong but the c3 cannot kill anyone with out mods but stock i think it apply's under the same laws as a handheld tazer you can buy them legally if your over 18 just about anywhere

you could hit them in a lethal spot (temple) and kill them, very unlikely but it could happen. You can also crank up the velocity a ton and be dangerous. When dumbass kids shoot pedestrians with paintball guns they can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon

your temple is not any more sensitive than any other part of your head. back of the head is the worst, especially at the top of the neck.

[PB2011]

Zenoah, on 18 November 2011 - 09:58 AM, said:

pb=life, on 17 November 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

ecoballer, on 12 November 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

corect me if im wrong but the c3 cannot kill anyone with out mods but stock i think it apply's under the same laws as a handheld tazer you can buy them legally if your over 18 just about anywhere

you could hit them in a lethal spot (temple) and kill them, very unlikely but it could happen. You can also crank up the velocity a ton and be
dangerous. When dumbass kids shoot pedestrians with paintball guns they can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon

your temple is not any more sensitive than any other part of your head. back of the head is the worst, especially at the top of the neck.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the thinnest part of the skull is at the sides of head

[cockerpunk]

in MN, anything that uses expanding gas to propel something is considered a firearm. that means all paintball guns and pellet guns are considered legally firearms.

check your local laws.

This post has been edited by cockerpunk: 19 January 2012 - 07:09 PM

[rntlee]

Quote

(3) The term "firearm" means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
( the frame or receiver of any such weapon; © any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.


(4) The term "destructive device" means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas— (i) bomb, (ii) grenade, (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (v) mine, or (vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
( any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter...

Sounds like it would qualify to me

This post has been edited by rntlee: 19 January 2012 - 07:23 PM

[TK-421]

rntlee, on 19 January 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

Quote

(3) The term "firearm" means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
( the frame or receiver of any such weapon; © any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.


(4) The term "destructive device" means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas— (i) bomb, (ii) grenade, (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (v) mine, or (vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
( any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter...

Sounds like it would qualify to me

That would depend on what their definition of "weapon" is.