[Maj Tom]

Even the vid on their (HH) site doesn't really show anything. At the very beginning it looks like it is actually a back spin, then a "quick" 180 right spin and "stalls" with a little wobble/slow right hand spin.

http://hammerheadpaintball.com/index.php?o...9&Itemid=18

This post has been edited by Maj Tom: 28 June 2009 - 03:22 PM

[TechPB-Mike]

The first time I ever experienced rifling was with my Armson barrel back in 1992. I never found "rifling" in a paintball barrel, whether "straight rifling", or "rifle rifling" to have any more accuracy or better range than any other decent barrel on the market

From my experience, it made it worse in many cases.

Now, I'm not saying that rifled barrels are bad products. Marketing and hype play a HUGE role in how players perceive the performance of their gun. I had to head the whole "flatter trajectory" bullshit for YEARS and YEARS knowing damn well it was complete nonsense.

I think it's great that we compare these barrels to the "standard" which is in my opinion, the CP Classic. I seriously think you'll have to look extremely hard to find a barrel that's considerably more accurate than the $30 barrel they sell....

[Spitlebug]

^^ The better question would be - Is there such a barrel?

I am unsure of the fin orientation of the FS rounds and the direction of the rifling within most "rifled" barrels. That would be the first thing to look at in this case.

[Snipez4664]

I cannot imagine why everyone is freaking out about rifled barrels and the FS rounds.

No, it won't make it better - they spin themselves. More spin is not better.

If they get out intact from a rifled barrel, they'll be the same. My guess is that they do and there will be no change.

[brycelarson]

TechPB-Mike, on Jun 29 2009, 12:00 AM, said:

I think it's great that we compare these barrels to the "standard" which is in my opinion, the CP Classic. I seriously think you'll have to look extremely hard to find a barrel that's considerably more accurate than the $30 barrel they sell....

We have really come to consider the 14" CP 685 the standard by with all should be judged. $30, light enough, shoot as well as any barrel on the market. it's a great piece of equipment. We haven't found ANY barrel more accurate.

[Terrorizer]

Did you guys test reballs through a rifled barrel?

[RatDragon]

Boy this makes me glad I didn't have the funds for one on my tax return......

[durkley]

I know the point of this was to see if the Hammerhead had any appreciable effect on accuracy, but I feel like you've ignored a very crucial point: paint-to-barrel match.

It didn't strike you as odd that the barrel with the best accuracy in this test also happened to have the same stated diameter?

Wouldn't this be a more conclusive test if you found paint to match the Hammerhead?

I suppose that .001 is close enough, but can we be sure?

Also, I can't believe that you can get .685 paint through a .679 barrel, haha.

[brycelarson]

durkley, on 10 September 2009 - 12:42 PM, said:

I know the point of this was to see if the Hammerhead had any appreciable effect on accuracy, but I feel like you've ignored a very crucial point: paint-to-barrel match.

It didn't strike you as odd that the barrel with the best accuracy in this test also happened to have the same stated diameter?

Wouldn't this be a more conclusive test if you found paint to match the Hammerhead?

I suppose that .001 is close enough, but can we be sure?

Also, I can't believe that you can get .685 paint through a .679 barrel, haha.

1. the hammerhead we tested has a sizer system. we shot many sizes. the front of the barrel was huge - 700-ish. there's no way we could find paint that big.

2. believe all you want about 685 paint through a 679 - I do it all the time - in fact, we put a couple cases through at 15bps in this test: http://www.techpb.co...hp?showtopic=52

[durkley]

Oh no, Bryce, I wasn't doubting the fact that you could get a .685 through a .679. I'd just never heard of that until now. In fact, I'm just watching your "what we know about barrels" video now, and I'm learning a lot that could've answered my questions here.

Do you guys have a conclusion on why your the underbored/overbored barrels didn't do as well as the correctly bored barrel? According to the video underbore/overbore should be more accurate, right? Does it have to do with the quality of porting?

And I was actually talking to guys on A5OG about whether or not the Hammerhead is rifled all the way through/same diameter. So it's not? Or does the rifling/consistent diameter just end near the end of the barrel? And why should it matter if the front of the barrel is .700?

Do you think that the Hammerhead suffers in accuracy behind the CP 14" because you can't get the same quality of finish on a barrel with lands and grooves as you can on a barrel that's just polished?

This post has been edited by durkley: 10 September 2009 - 01:07 PM

[brycelarson]

durkley, on 10 September 2009 - 12:56 PM, said:

Do you guys have a conclusion on why your the underbored/overbored barrels didn't do as well as the correctly bored barrel? According to the video underbore/overbore should be more accurate, right? Does it have to do with the quality of porting?

And I was actually talking to guys on A5OG about whether or not the Hammerhead is rifled all the way through/same diameter. So it's not? Or does the rifling/consistent diameter just end near the end of the barrel? And why should it matter if the front of the barrel is .700?

Do you think that the Hammerhead suffers in accuracy behind the CP 14" because you can't get the same quality of finish on a barrel with lands and grooves as you can on a barrel that's just polished?

"didn't do as well" - I'll parse that a bit if you don't mind. There are four performance criteria that matter on barrels. Efficiency, consistency, barrel breaks and accuracy. here's how things stack up:

overbore = good consistency, poor efficiency
paint to barrel match = poor consistency, moderate efficiency
underbore = good consistency, good efficiency

all barrels are the same on accuracy and barrel breaks

as to the hammerhead desing - we tested the MoFo and the band stikxx. they use a short barrel sizer - about 2" long. that's smooth if I remember correctly. then it steps up to the rifled front of the barrel. the reason the bore of that matters is that being a large bore barrel the paint doesn't make much (if any) real contact with the rifling - so imparting spin would be unliklely.

And just to be clear, the hammerhead wasn't worse tan the CP. it wasn't better either. they shot quite similar accuracy-wise.

[Sequoia SC]

so I have a hh bangstix and I guess I am a lucky few who can get repeatable accuracy even WITHOUT BORE SIZING! I ussually use the .690 and shoot economy or winterized paint. I noticed the greatest increase in accuracy when I added a palmer stab to my setup but even before that I was pretty impressed. Now my one issue with the barrel is that it is not self cleaning as they said and instead it does take some effort to get shells and crap out of the rifling. other than that it is a little quieter as they claimed and I have noticed straight flight characteristics for decent distance. I did buy this for about $120 and I feel like it was a worthwhile upgrade and haven't been disappointed yet. though it is nice to see you guys are dotting I's and crossing T's

[maglover666]

fuck i spent like 175 bucks for my hammerhead

[DutchJester]

Rifling could never even be feasable with paintballs since they have liquid fill. Even if everything was perfect and you could get a ball to spin, only the shell would spin and the liquid would just stay constant. So rifling can never work until you get a solid paintball.

This post has been edited by DutchJester: 15 June 2011 - 12:25 PM

[paintchucker]

maybe it is just my firearms backround but in theory if you could match the rifling so it would fully engage a paintball and put the correct twist rate in the barrel the spinning effect should help miniamize the irregularites in the paint and make it more accurate the same way the rifling in a muzzleloader increases accuracy over smoothbore but in muzzleoaders the ball has to be jammed down the barrel with signifigant force to create grooves in the lead and fully engage the rifling

[thed3monvisionz]

PacosTacos88, on 25 June 2009 - 09:04 PM, said:

Perrty.

[rkneeshaw]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I want to point out that hammerhead says you need to run between 260-280 fps for the barrel to work at peak accuracy. The rifling was designed at a certain rotation-per-inch-rate for that specific velocity range. I've tested and confirmed this in the field (did not log data but in my opinion the change was significant) when I couldn't figure out why my HH barrel shot like crap compared to my J&J for example, and realized I was running the barrel at about 290 or so. When I toned it down to 270 there was a significant improvement in my opinion. Being that all the shots in this test were performed on average around 285 fps, I am curious if the results would be much different if the marker had been adjusted down so the average fps was about 270 when using the hamerhead barrels.

For reference: http://hammerheadpai...ask=view&id=40

This post has been edited by rkneeshaw: 27 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

[mental_hop]

rkneeshaw, on 27 May 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I want to point out that hammerhead says you need to run between 260-280 fps for the barrel to work at peak accuracy.

I think 260 might be too slow to really be effective at range. Let's say theoretically you have added range, but will it matter if the paintballs are moving too slow to break? Maybe they're right, and I'm not certain at what fps Punkworks shot at (which I'm sure I could easily find but I'm lazy) but it just seems like an excuse. Don't get me wrong, I would love for HH barrels to actually work. That would be awesome and would revolution paintball, but I don't see any hard evidence. My brother bought one actually and I fired a few shots, not enough to be an expert obviously, but it didn't seem any different than the gun I had at the time.

[rkneeshaw]

mental_hop, on 27 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I'm not certain at what fps Punkworks shot at (which I'm sure I could easily find but I'm lazy)

According to the data sheet they shot at about 285fps, with slight variations.

I would rather the barrel work great at 285 than 260 or 270, but honestly I never long-ball anyway, so if accuracy is improved at the expense of 15-30 fps, I could live with that.

I don't think paintballs would have a problem breaking at 260fps.

This post has been edited by rkneeshaw: 28 May 2012 - 07:54 AM

[mental_hop]

rkneeshaw, on 28 May 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I don't think paintballs would have a problem breaking at 260fps.

I'm sure they could break at 260 but when the paintball passes what a normal barrel would accomplish, in the additional yardage would the paintball break is my question. The field I play at keeps the markers at 280, and I was shot while walking off the field in the back of my head and it bounced off and hit my shoulder. And believe me, my head is about as hard as the helmet Juggernaut wears.