[Troy]

cockerpunk, on 12 March 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

drg, on 12 March 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

So in a way every game is a subjective test of ball performance.

but with uncontrolled parameters. which means you most of the time, can't single out any one factor as being an improvement. which is why you have to have controlled tests, and why in the absence of controlled tests, the wrong conclusions were made.

QFT

[Jaccen]

brycelarson, on 12 March 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

when I specifically asked about performance - I'm getting a lot of stuff about dimples, seams, round, size - and very little about how it shoots. Interesting.

Right, I think this relates back to how when paintball people talk about accuracy, they're actually talking about precision (as per the other thread). It's impractical to run a vector accuracy test like PunkWorks does on a case before one buys said case. Try suggesting it next time at a store if you doubt that

Since everybody wants a level of precision (ie. repeat-ability), it stands to reason that the most uniform (ie. similar) paint would behave the most similar shot-to-shot. Thus, the concerns about dimples, flats, breakage, etc. I don't think testing has ever been done to show if that's true, though. It's all been conjecture and what we think happens. I don't even think testing paint brand to brand has ever been done. Heck, people claim same brand paint changes on the batch so it'd be a pretty difficult and controversial test.

These are the paint tests I know PunkWorks has done:
-Paintball Brittleness Drop Test
-Paintball Compression Test
-Initial Paint to Barrel Match Test

Is there one I'm unaware of?

If not, I think testing actual paint is the next step forward. We can choose our barrels (ie. whether you want an underbore or overbore). Knowing what to base one's paint choice off of is next on the list.

This post has been edited by Jaccen: 12 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

[cockerpunk]

the test we are al talking about is rntlees test where he measured the seam on a microscope and then shot them for actually.

we should try that Bryce, i have the measuring equipment at work that we could use.

[drg]

brycelarson, on 12 March 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

drg, on 12 March 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

I'm not so sure that doesn't say the opposite, that performance is essential regardless of price. I kind of wish you hadn't put that option because it's kind of a cop-out option, not really the same kind of "bucket" as the other selections.

But anyway, this is kind of the point I'm trying to make. Most people that play paintball fairly regularly pay at least some attention to paint performance. So in a way every game is a subjective test of ball performance.

when I specifically asked about performance - I'm getting a lot of stuff about dimples, seams, round, size - and very little about how it shoots. Interesting.

TechPB:
"the paint seam is the biggest thing for me. The smaller the seam, usually the more consistent. and i use Evil from the local pb shop, which sells for $60 a case with free entry to my local field"

"If the paint shell is very smooth with a very small seam. Also if its dry (as in not oily) thats a good sign. Other stuff you can tell by like roundness, fill viscosity, how bright the fill is, how brittle the shell is. etc. etc."

"Consistency of how round it is. Better seem. Brittleness. "

"Other people's opinions, opening a bag and checking for dimples, flat spots, size consistency, how often it breaks on a person instead of bouncing, how well the fill sticks to the person, how bright the fill is, stuff like that. "

"For me it's how strait it flys, so I want the smallest seams and the least dimply paint possible, then by brittleness. I like stuff that flies strait and has a tight grouping and is fairly brittle, "

MCB:

"Inspection of the balls is first. Are they round? Are there tons of dimples and flat spots? Any broken paint in the bag?

Also look at the size. I prefer a .686-.688 sized ball so that gets high marks but obviously doesn't mean it is a quality paint. I test a few balls to see if it is consistently sized. If the sizes in a small sample are way crazy, that is a sign it is going to be a bad day for accuracy.

I often do the drop test too from about my eye level ( I am 5' 10"). A good paint in my book is in the six to ten range on the drop test. Any more than that is like shooting marbles. Any less is too brittle and will likely not do well from my L7 Automag.

And of course, there is just shooting it. Can I consistently hit a reasonably sized target at a decent distance? Does it chrono well?"

Not to state the obvious but ... that would be because you can't shoot the paint before you buy it ... I mean in some cases you might be lucky enough to get some feedback beforehand but it's a rare occasion that you would actually get to shoot a ball before you buy it.

[Jaccen]

cockerpunk, on 12 March 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

the test we are al talking about is rntlees test where he measured the seam on a microscope and then shot them for actually.

we should try that Bryce, i have the measuring equipment at work that we could use.

I presume you mean this thread?

http://www.techpb.co...&hl=rntlee&st=0

If yes, interesting stuff. I don't seem to remember reading it before so it was fun to go through it.


Does anyone have any ideas on paintball polishing? I'm going to rule out a vibratory finish unless someone can convince me otherwise. I just think I'd get a bucket of paint goo.

http://en.wikipedia....atory_finishing

I think tumble polishing is the best bet. Thus, the rotating bucket idea.

http://en.wikipedia....umble_polishing

Everything I'm reading seems to suggest using a liquid during the process, but I don't think that's practical with paintballs. I still think airsoft bb's or something similar are our best bet. I could maybe see using sand, but I think it might be too rough on the shell of the ball. Maybe I'll give it a try just to see. I'm hoping the paintballs tumbling past each other takes a lot of the burr off, but we'll see. I'll see if I can't scrounge up some inner tube to coat the bucket to soften the process.

I don't know if I can use just a direct connection to a drill to spin the bucket. From what I'm reading it might be too fast. I might need to rig up some bike gears/pulleys to drop it down in speed. Maybe a BBQ spit.

I'm open to ideas on the following:

1. RPM and duration of tumble. Right now I'm thinking the numbers given for metal in that Wiki article are what I should be aiming for. I simply lack information to choose anything but that.
2. Polishing agents. Right now I've got airsoft bb's, wooden beads of various sizes, and I guess I could grab some sandbox sand.
3. Max fill of bucket. I'm thinking under 1/2.
4. Should I apply a slight heat (ie. warming) source to the tumbling process? The wife's pretty handy in the kitchen and she says when she's making fondant you want things warm, but not boiling. I don't know if this applies because the paintballs are already formed. I wonder if the heat would warp things to much. The only value I can see is that it might make polishing easier and the paintballs less brittle.

So, yeah, thoughts?

[andrewthewookie]

Jaccen, on 12 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

4. Should I apply a slight heat (ie. warming) source to the tumbling process? The wife's pretty handy in the kitchen and she says when she's making fondant you want things warm, but not boiling. I don't know if this applies because the paintballs are already formed. I wonder if the heat would warp things to much. The only value I can see is that it might make polishing easier and the paintballs less brittle.

I guess that depends on whether we want to break off the seams, or squish them even with the shell.

[Molybdenum]

andrewthewookie, on 12 March 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Jaccen, on 12 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

4. Should I apply a slight heat (ie. warming) source to the tumbling process? The wife's pretty handy in the kitchen and she says when she's making fondant you want things warm, but not boiling. I don't know if this applies because the paintballs are already formed. I wonder if the heat would warp things to much. The only value I can see is that it might make polishing easier and the paintballs less brittle.

I guess that depends on whether we want to break off the seams, or squish them even with the shell.

Seeing as this is punk works the obvious thing to do is try both and see which one works better.

[derfalpha]

@ OP - Spread occurs regardless due to recoil, trigger squeeze, atmospheric conditions, etc so I don't think "overaccuracy" is a problem.

[MMMerc]

cockerpunk, on 12 March 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

the test we are al talking about is rntlees test where he measured the seam on a microscope and then shot them for actually.

we should try that Bryce, i have the measuring equipment at work that we could use.