[FCpaintballer]

I was watching Boss Paintball Products video for the boss bolt V2 setup in the Empire Axe and I noticed that to get a shot that was easier on paint and subsequently smoother he lowered the regulator pressure and lowered the dwell to 4 milliseconds. It would make more sense to me to lower the regulator pressure and raise the dwell, that way the gun compensates for the lower pressure by taking a longer time to channel the air through the solenoid and into the bolt. So basically slower moving air but more of it in order to maintain a velocity of 280 FPS. Could someone explain to me the correlation (if there is one) between dwell setting and shot quality and how higher or lower dwell makes for a smoother shot? Thank you.

[tyronejk]

According to the manual for the Shocker Eigenbolt, increasing dwell and lowering pressure for the Shocker will give you a smoother shot. I'm not 100% sure, but I think Axe's and Mini's have two different dwells: forward and backward or something. Boss could've been lowering the backward/something dwell.

[cybermaniac15]

It really just depends on the gun. With the eigenring you lower the dwell, eigenbolt you raise it.

[Demon]

cyber you drop the dwell for the eigenbolt.

and tyrone no gun has ever had forward dwell and reverse dwell or whatever you are trying to say there.

the thing you are failing to take into account OP is the reduced mass of the bolt which takes less air to move it and results in a higher FPS that's why when you put it in the FPS jumps 30 fps or so, then you drop the regulator pressure to get it to field velocity, because the bolt is lighter and moving faster now you don't need the excess dwell time so you can lower that for higher efficiency but if you raise the dwell you can lower your pressure some and it will allow for a smoother shot.

the easiest way to explain dwell to new people is "higher dwell = smoother and quieter, lower dwell = rougher and more efficient" but if you lower it too much the gun won't cycle reliably and if you raise it too much it will start wasting air and you will have horrible efficiency.

i hope that makes sense, if you don't understand the general workings of how a marker operates together with all it's pieces to propel a ball it is harder to explain.

This post has been edited by Demon: 29 October 2012 - 10:53 PM

[drg]

How do you quantify "shot quality"?

[FCpaintballer]

Thank you Demon, that clarified things for me. By shot quality I mean how "smooth" the gun shoots and how quiet it is.

[cockerpunk]

what is shot quality?

[LV Backpacker]

tyronejk, on 29 October 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

According to the manual for the Shocker Eigenbolt, increasing dwell and lowering pressure for the Shocker will give you a smoother shot. I'm not 100% sure, but I think Axe's and Mini's have two different dwells: forward and backward or something. Boss could've been lowering the backward/something dwell.

You have a Shocker Eigenbolt?

I'm jelly.

[brycelarson]

drg, on 30 October 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

How do you quantify "shot quality"?

cockerpunk, on 30 October 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

what is shot quality?

mee too want to know!

[drg]

Starting to think it's the new accuracy ...

[cockerpunk]

for references, please point to me the feature or dynamic that is "shot quality"

This post has been edited by cockerpunk: 30 October 2012 - 02:28 PM

[Demon]

you guys did see that he changed his statement from "shot quality" to "smoothness and quietness" right?

lets get off the confused non science oriented kid, i mean shit he is only 11 posts in.

[FCpaintballer]

Is shot quality a phrase that is frowned upon? I'm sorry if I said something illegitimate or non applicable to paintball. Please inform me as to what I should have said.

[tyronejk]

Demon, on 29 October 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

...
and tyrone no gun has ever had forward dwell and reverse dwell or whatever you are trying to say there.
...

Duh hello?

[tyronejk]

cockerpunk, on 30 October 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

for references, please point to me the feature or dynamic that is "shot quality"
...

Possibly maximum range of acceleration? That would put the "shot quality" ranking from best to worst: Shocker, PMR, SLS.

[drg]

FCpaintballer, on 30 October 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Is shot quality a phrase that is frowned upon? I'm sorry if I said something illegitimate or non applicable to paintball. Please inform me as to what I should have said.

Anything unquantifiable is of limited value to a science-focused forum. You need to propose a means of quantifying whatever you would like to test.

[Demon]

tyronejk, on 30 October 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Demon, on 29 October 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

...
and tyrone no gun has ever had forward dwell and reverse dwell or whatever you are trying to say there.
...

Duh hello?

here's the manual, i have read it before, and multiple times and i checked again for this. find multiple dwell settings because i sure as hell can't.

http://www.paintball...mini_manual.pdf

heres the shockwave manual too. you can try here if you want, maybe i missed something.

http://www.paintball...nstructions.pdf

also if anyone is confused they pretty much repeat my explanation of dwell almost verbatim in the shockwave manual.

in other words. the manufacturer has NO mention of two dwell settings. and facebook is not a legitimate source for information, now there are such things as a mechanical dwell control dealing with springs etc affecting your dwell, but what we are discussing here is board dwell settings. now if you would care to share with me what you think you are talking about feel free to go ahead, because atm i have absolutely no fucking clue what you are going on about.

and this is horribly irrelevent to this discussion but apparently this is what you want to site, this is the lurker eigenbolt manual for the axe/mini. find multiple dwell settings here http://www.lurkerpb..../minimanual.pdf

and the shocker one, just because i want to pack it on.

http://www.lurkerpb....rboltmanual.pdf

big hint, try reading the manual before you try and act like someone else is an idiot.

This post has been edited by Demon: 31 October 2012 - 04:29 AM

[Demon]

for anyone wondering, it is 4:30 am, i am tired and pissed off and when i get pissed off i get very thorough in telling someone off.

[Troy]

Demon, on 31 October 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

for anyone wondering, it is 4:30 am, i am tired and pissed off and when i get pissed off i get very thorough in telling someone off.

I have a rule, I never debate someone past 10:00PM or when I'm drunk... I tend to say stupid things. I'm not saying that you said anything stupid, but it's pretty clear that we don't think the same way late at night.

[Eskimo]

cockerpunk, on 30 October 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

for references, please point to me the feature or dynamic that is "shot quality"

Its the second graph will all the science on it. You can see how in the middle there is alot of science. and then less science.

the average of all the science is shot quality


I think a better Direction to describe it is

Lets say a paintball has a specific force "X" to break it, if the force applied on the ball reaches or exceeds "X" the ball will rupture/break/implode/divide by zero

So as we approach the force X, the ball undergoes more "shit going on in a small time"
The least chance of breaking a ball, would be the highest "Quality" (Its still a horrible name to use) or the lower you can make the force on the ball, while still maintaining a good velocity the better.

Now of course this gets into a gigantic mess of random factors'n shit and other things. But Is this what your getting at OP?