[Spitlebug]

All I know is that fingers bleed when they get shot with a standard round - at distance. So if you got shot in the finger, however improbable you might be a little pissed off that you are bleeding all over your marker.

Also when it comes to getting shot in the neck, a blow to the adam's apple would not be on my list of places to get shot.

[RealtorTommy]

What about TA using a softer plastic and using foam inserts so the keep their shape during storage and shipping...Remove the foam insert before using...Just a thought...

[U83R 1337]

Would first strike rounds work if loaded into the breech directly, or must they be in the barrel?

[Lord Odin]

RealtorTommy, on Jun 9 2009, 07:59 AM, said:

What about TA using a softer plastic and using foam inserts so the keep their shape during storage and shipping...Remove the foam insert before using...Just a thought...

If the rounds are made in two steps with the dome being joined to the skirt, it might be possible to make the dome a softer material while keeping the skirt strong. Or possibly even make the joint thinner so that they want to separate easier.

[nickydp33]

been waiting for someone to run some tests. i dont think the fins are the problem as much as the whole undercarriage thingabober (very scientific term) might be slightly harmful to skin

[brycelarson]

OK, someone beat us to the dual chrono test - and the results are interesting.


DUrtyDan on SO did this work.

So, at 25 yards the FS is still doing 240 fps while the paintball is at only 180 fps. taking our range test into account - at 50' the paintball is doing just over 200 fps - and I'm going to guess the first strike is going to be closer to 260. That's a huge difference.

basically the first strike take bunkering velocities out to 50 feet or so.

We'll do the dual chrono test at various ranges - that should give us a curve where we can plot the estimated speed at any range.

[Lord Odin]

Are you guys planning on doing the same distances with paintballs, as well, for comparison or are you going to go off of your previous ranged chrono data?

I'd most interested in finding out what paintballs chrono at 10 ft and then finding the equivalent distance for FS rounds. To me, that would be the max velocity that fields would allow them at if the damage they inflict turns out to be the same.

This post has been edited by Lord Odin: 12 June 2009 - 08:16 PM

[brycelarson]

Lord Odin, on Jun 12 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

Are you guys planning on doing the same distances with paintballs, as well, for comparison or are you going to go off of your previous ranged chrono data?

I'd most interested in finding out what paintballs chrono at 10 ft and then finding the equivalent distance for FS rounds. To me, that would be the max velocity that fields would allow them at if the damage they inflict turns out to be the same.

yeah, 10, 15 and 20 are common required surrender distances at various fields. the equivalent FS distance would be a good comparison.

[Boomer14]

I did the velocity range comparisons mentioned above, and would like to comment on the data. The velocity data shown is for the same ball/shot measured at the muzzle and at 25 yards. There would have been more, but it took about 2-3 shots to get one to register at the 25 yard mark under field conditions. The 50 yard was pure random if the chrony would catch it. The consistancy of the data surprised me, and and represent all the gathered measurements, not doctored in any way. I was using a large-bore barrel (about .695), and CO2 on a remote tank. Both the first strike and spherical paint were a very consistant .690.

It is harder than it sounds, getting the ball to cross two chronographs spread that far apart. I was using a break-beam style chrony for the ranged data, and a radar style for the muzzle data. If I wanted to blow $300 doing this, I move the chrono in 50 foot increments and test the terminal velocity for each to 100 yards (300'). I wouldn't assume that there is a correct mathmatical model that would be worth using without having real data to compare with. Shooting 30 or so rounds at each range would also get a better idea of real drop in the rounds. That part would be comparatively easy. But for this to have any relevance, it would have to be done for regular paint as well, and that would take a lot of patience. I could see going through a pod to get one to actually register on a chronograph beyond 50 yards.

This post has been edited by Boomer14: 14 June 2009 - 08:42 PM

[Lord Odin]

Boomer14, on Jun 14 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

I did the velocity range comparisons mentioned above, and would like to comment on the data. The velocity data shown is for the same ball/shot measured at the muzzle and at 25 yards. There would have been more, but it took about 2-3 shots to get one to register at the 25 yard mark under field conditions. The 50 yard was pure random if the chrony would catch it. The consistancy of the data surprised me, and and represent all the gathered measurements, not doctored in any way. I was using a large-bore barrel (about .695), and CO2 on a remote tank. Both the first strike and spherical paint were a very consistant .690.

It is harder than it sounds, getting the ball to cross two chronographs spread that far apart. I was using a break-beam style chrony for the ranged data, and a radar style for the muzzle data. If I wanted to blow $300 doing this, I move the chrono in 50 foot increments and test the terminal velocity for each to 100 yards (300'). I wouldn't assume that there is a correct mathmatical model that would be worth using without having real data to compare with. Shooting 30 or so rounds at each range would also get a better idea of real drop in the rounds. That part would be comparatively easy. But for this to have any relevance, it would have to be done for regular paint as well, and that would take a lot of patience. I could see going through a pod to get one to actually register on a chronograph beyond 50 yards.

Hi, Boomer. Firstly, thank you for doing the ranged chrono test and giving such useful information.

Did you have as hard of a time with the shots tripping the 2nd chrono with the FS rounds as you did with the paintballs? Or did the extra accuracy not make it a problem at all?

[Boomer14]

The accuracy of the FS rounds really helped, but it still took 12 rounds at 25 yards to get the data for the 6 shown. I shot 16 FS at 50 yards, and I could only get 2 to register. I couldn't get the standard paint to register at all. The ball has to cross in about a 3" x 6" window on a break beam. A radar style might be better, I just wasn't sure how accurate the result would be.

[brycelarson]

these are exactly the problems we had when we tested paintballs at range. we've got a pair of Shooting Chrony's - very acurate - but at 125' tough to thread that ball through the second one.

We're going to set up and shoot for accuracy at 75 and 150 feet indoors and collect the data - we'll also try to replicate your results - but since you got exactly what we did on the paintballs - then I'm sure our FS results are going to look just the same as well.

Welcome to the forum - hope you don't mind me stealing your data over to this thread - it looks great.

[style-n-speed]

It was very cool when you showed the depth of penetration for the FS round, but there was no such footage of the Paintball penetration. I would have liked to have seen that just to satisfy my curiosity.

Great Job fellas!

[Boomer14]

brycelarson, on Jun 15 2009, 06:11 AM, said:

these are exactly the problems we had when we tested paintballs at range. we've got a pair of Shooting Chrony's - very acurate - but at 125' tough to thread that ball through the second one.

We're going to set up and shoot for accuracy at 75 and 150 feet indoors and collect the data - we'll also try to replicate your results - but since you got exactly what we did on the paintballs - then I'm sure our FS results are going to look just the same as well.

Welcome to the forum - hope you don't mind me stealing your data over to this thread - it looks great.

No problem. I wouldn't have posted it on the internet if I didn't want it getting around. I plan on shooting up the rest of my FS stash this weekend at our field's big game

This post has been edited by Boomer14: 15 June 2009 - 09:04 PM

[DruidicRifleman]

What calibration methods to calibrate the consistency of the gelatin did you use?

[Lord Odin]

DruidicRifleman, on Aug 27 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

What calibration methods to calibrate the consistency of the gelatin did you use?

The kit that I used comes with 2 lb bags of gelatin. Using a digital scale, I measured out exactly 20.0 lbs of final mix. That gives the 10% mix to water ratio. I wasn't able to verify using a BB gun because I didn't have one. If I did, it should have penetrated 8.5cm ± 0.85cm to be considered ballistics grade.

[DruidicRifleman]

Ah they are like 45 bucks at wall mart a spring loaded or pump one will give the best accuracy it's also BB weight and velocity that conferms the standard. the BB velosity and penitration helps with data confemration

perma gel midway has it it's the latest balistics gel that the Mythbusters use
http://www.midwayusa...ctnumber=315783 (great for any one who wants to start out doing balistic testing)

All that being said LO Very nice work balistic geliton works fine for what

Mind if i Download and burn these to DVD to show to my local field to show them the head reff was asking for some indermendant non tiberious arms funded tests to conferm the saft of the rounds

This post has been edited by DruidicRifleman: 28 August 2009 - 12:45 AM

[Lord Odin]

DruidicRifleman, on Aug 27 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

Ah they are like 45 bucks at wall mart a spring loaded or pump one will give the best accuracy it's also BB weight and velocity that conferms the standard. the BB velosity and penitration helps with data confemration

perma gel midway has it it's the latest balistics gel that the Mythbusters use
http://www.midwayusa...ctnumber=315783 (great for any one who wants to start out doing balistic testing)

All that being said LO Very nice work balistic geliton works fine for what

Mind if i Download and burn these to DVD to show to my local field to show them the head reff was asking for some indermendant non tiberious arms funded tests to conferm the saft of the rounds

That's some interesting stuff there. Never heard of that before. I'll have to watch some newer episodes of Mythbusters.

Go right ahead. Don't forget about the 2nd FS Safety Test as well.

[DruidicRifleman]

i know about it cause i was looking into it to test loads for selecting the perfect rounds for hunting.

they use it the bambo episode wher ethey tested could a bambo shoot grow through someone if i wasn't mistaken

[Hodgepodge]

Rage Against the machine. Very nice.