[Lucas]

Wow, such a long period of time, I can only imagine where paintball will be in 13 years from now.... its going to be amazing thats all I can tell you guys!

- Lucas

[Lord Odin]

Nicholai, on Nov 24 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

Fair enough, I don't think you will see much a difference, I think the main reason they were maid in the first place was to be nicer on the paint and hit the paint with a more balanced air puff. How good it works, well you got me! Maybe a job for punkworks?? As if they don't have enough on their plate. But let me know how your numbers come out!

Considering I contribute to that section, yeah, that would be a fair assessment. I already have another big test going on at the moment. This would be nice to do when I only have small amounts of free time though.

I'll definitely post it up here. Not sure if it would apply so much to Punkworks but perhaps.

[Lord Odin]

I got the seal kit and replaced everything that came with it, threw on the new grips, replaced the microline with braided hose, and threw on an HPA tank. It has a pretty good leak coming out of the powertube as soon as its gassed up. I tried adjusting the velocity to see if it was too high/low and it didn't stop it. If anything, it got worse when I cranked it up. Any clues what might cause this? All o-rings are brand new and I lubed up the gun, too.

[Nicholai]

Lord Odin, on Nov 30 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

I got the seal kit and replaced everything that came with it, threw on the new grips, replaced the microline with braided hose, and threw on an HPA tank. It has a pretty good leak coming out of the powertube as soon as its gassed up. I tried adjusting the velocity to see if it was too high/low and it didn't stop it. If anything, it got worse when I cranked it up. Any clues what might cause this? All o-rings are brand new and I lubed up the gun, too.

You are absolutely positive you replaced the power tube o-ring? Also do you have a power tube spring or spacer?

[Lord Odin]

Nicholai, on Nov 30 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

You are absolutely positive you replaced the power tube o-ring? Also do you have a power tube spring or spacer?

Yep, I completely disassembled the valve and powertube and replaced every single o-ring.

After looking at the manual, it appears I am missing the PT spring. In fact, I don't think I've see that in years. Good call!

[Nicholai]

Lord Odin, on Dec 1 2008, 04:44 AM, said:

Yep, I completely disassembled the valve and powertube and replaced every single o-ring.

After looking at the manual, it appears I am missing the PT spring. In fact, I don't think I've see that in years. Good call!

I have tons of spacers from a spacer kit, if you want I could send you out one!

[Lord Odin]

Nicholai, on Dec 1 2008, 06:45 AM, said:

I have tons of spacers from a spacer kit, if you want I could send you out one!

Thanks a lot for the offer but I need to order up a regulator pistol assembly, too. I messed with mine and then noticed the manual says not to mess with it. So I'm gonna order up a kit since I'm paying for the shipping anyways. Thank you for the offer though.

[Nicholai]

Lord Odin, on Dec 1 2008, 04:08 PM, said:

Thanks a lot for the offer but I need to order up a regulator pistol assembly, too. I messed with mine and then noticed the manual says not to mess with it. So I'm gonna order up a kit since I'm paying for the shipping anyways. Thank you for the offer though.

No problem, but if you are making an order anyway you might want to think about getting the level 10 bolt. It would replace whats in the power tube and the bolt.

[Lord Odin]

I had considered that but I can't afford it right now. I think I'll do that when I get some more cash available.

[Miguel11]

great piece of art

[Lord Odin]

Well there's good news and bad news. The good news is that the leaking finally stopped. I had to go from a .225 (saw it marked on mine) down to a .215 (smallest spacer) to get it to finally stop leaking. The bad news is that now I've got mechanical ramping. I get one shot for a trigger pull and one shot for a trigger release. If I sweet spot it, it goes full auto. Could this be solved by trigger sear tweaking? I noticed it has a screwed adjustment where the trigger makes contact with it. If not, what could be causing this?

[Watcher]

Lord Odin, on Nov 20 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

At Fox Paintball near me, all of their rentals are Automags.

You live near fox? Whereabouts? Me and my friend Greyknight aren't too far away so it's our favorite spot to go shoot our mags.

We'll be there all the time when it gets warm again. CPX too, but not as much because they are wicked expensive and BadLandz is a bit of a drive for us...


As far as the ramping, the classic valve should not be sweetspotable or rebound as it does not give return force. Even if you had a RT on/off it shouldn't do that...

Is your trigger frame a rebound frame? I remember seeing a few classic mag frames with a cam and a spring on the sear that would make it trip on the pull and release.

Don't adjust the rod on the sear, it is to factory spec for trigger travel and pull.

Only other thing I can think is that if it has been stored for so long with the valve inside the marker the spring would be compressed. When snapped into the bolt it should pass it by a good 1/4 inch. This wouldn't allow the bolt to return enough that the sear catches it and when you let go of the trigger and air pressurized the valve it would fire again and the bolt probably bounces back to be caught by the sear...


As far as the bolt goes, I've never seen the gold one but I also have an ANS Venturi Phase II bolt. It cups the ball a bit better because it doesn't have that piece in the center that protrudes forward so the ball catches more of the air. The level seven might have better air flow because of the larger ports but I think it is less effective (by which I mean the air would move better but more would go around the paintball)... I don't think it's that noticable of a difference but I like the venturi until I get a level 10.

This post has been edited by Watcher: 03 December 2008 - 11:25 PM

[Lord Odin]

Watcher, on Dec 3 2008, 10:22 PM, said:

You live near fox? Whereabouts? Me and my friend Greyknight aren't too far away so it's our favorite spot to go shoot our mags.

We'll be there all the time when it gets warm again. CPX too, but not as much because they are wicked expensive and BadLandz is a bit of a drive for us...

Its about an hour's drive for me but I go there quite a bit. I agree about CPX. Its only 10 min from me but way too expensive. I'd rather make the drive. I was just there last weekend with the ION Longbow and T8.

Quote

As far as the ramping, the classic valve should not be sweetspotable or rebound as it does not give return force. Even if you had a RT on/off it shouldn't do that...

Is your trigger frame a rebound frame? I remember seeing a few classic mag frames with a cam and a spring on the sear that would make it trip on the pull and release.

Don't adjust the rod on the sear, it is to factory spec for trigger travel and pull.

No, there is no cam or spring on the sear. It looks pretty basic.

Quote

Only other thing I can think is that if it has been stored for so long with the valve inside the marker the spring would be compressed. When snapped into the bolt it should pass it by a good 1/4 inch. This wouldn't allow the bolt to return enough that the sear catches it and when you let go of the trigger and air pressurized the valve it would fire again and the bolt probably bounces back to be caught by the sear...

As far as the bolt goes, I've never seen the gold one but I also have an ANS Venturi Phase II bolt. It cups the ball a bit better because it doesn't have that piece in the center that protrudes forward so the ball catches more of the air. The level seven might have better air flow because of the larger ports but I think it is less effective (by which I mean the air would move better but more would go around the paintball)... I don't think it's that noticable of a difference but I like the venturi until I get a level 10.

I'll test out the bolts once I get the leaks stopped.

Would the valve spring or spring pack assembly cause this problem? Those are the only parts I haven't changed out. Also, would too low/high of pressure cause this problem?

This post has been edited by Lord Odin: 03 December 2008 - 11:44 PM

[Watcher]

Unfortunately I don't know too much about classic valves, only that that shouldn't happen...

Does it matter how fast you move the trigger? If you release it very slowly and it still happens at least you'll know it isn't from like vibration or something. Plus if you go really slow you might be able to hear what is happening.

Make sure you are using the correct bumper (the blue one), the other (clear) softer one may be making the bolt react bad.

The reg/valve pin and spring shouldn't wear out but it might be worth it to replace it. The reg piston needs a switch to a highpressure one if you run HPA instead of CO2, maybe that is the problem.

I wish I could just come out and say what the problem is but the classic valve is significantly different than the RT valves. Same design but many different internals... If you want to post in the tech forum on Automags.org, they'll be able to help you out much better.

[Nicholai]

Lord Odin, on Dec 3 2008, 03:31 PM, said:

Well there's good news and bad news. The good news is that the leaking finally stopped. I had to go from a .225 (saw it marked on mine) down to a .215 (smallest spacer) to get it to finally stop leaking. The bad news is that now I've got mechanical ramping. I get one shot for a trigger pull and one shot for a trigger release. If I sweet spot it, it goes full auto. Could this be solved by trigger sear tweaking? I noticed it has a screwed adjustment where the trigger makes contact with it. If not, what could be causing this?

Sometimes the o-rings in the powertube just sucks, try another o-ring if it starts leaking again and inspect the inner rod on the back of the bolts for some kind of damage since that's where the o-ring seals. If you don't have a spare parts kit you can snag one of the o-rings out of the on/off valve since that's an easier seal.

As for the mech bounce this can be caused by a few things. Typically its because sear doesn't grab the bolt good enough when it comes back and just lets it go again. This could be from how the sear is placed, take it apart and pull the sear downwards to make sure it's clicked into the rail good, also just make sure the sear moves back and forth on the pin smoothly. Check the edge on the sear where the bolt catches and inspect for excessive wear and check the bolt itself for wear on the outer ring where the sear catches (rounded out). Last I would check the sear length itself. When the gun is aired up is there any space between the tip of the sear pin and the back of the trigger? Sometimes the trigger doesn't move forward enough to let the sear pin come forward enough to properly lift the sear to catch the bolt. If this is the case and you are sure it's not just how the sear was placed in there (like I said pull it down firmly, check for debris in the sear pin cavity on the rail, check for debris in the front of the trigger itself too) then I would go a heard and SHORTEN the sear pin to let it come forward a little more and not be pressing on the back of the trigger. You should be able to slide a car between the sear pin and the back of the trigger while it's aired up. Don't go any farther back then this as it can cause other problems.


Oh and I forgot the most obvious, if the bolt spring is really short (should come out over the bolt about 1/8 - 1/4 of an inch installed on the bolt), then it could not have enough force to properly re-cock.

This post has been edited by Nicholai: 04 December 2008 - 01:06 AM

[Lord Odin]

Thought I would give an update on my Classic. I ordered up a new sear and that appears to have fixed the problem, in addition to using a .220 spacer. Now it's shooting in the right velocity range without leaking.

I tried to do some comparison testing of the bolt but they are fluctuating too much. I think I need to add a second regulator to it. Probably a Stabilizer since it can handle Co2 as well. Quick question, though. To have the stab work correctly, it needs at least 100 psi pressure difference, which means I would be running around 700 psi. Do I simply need to mess with the velocity adjuster to correct for the lower pressure? Will I run into any issues?

[Watcher]

Lord Odin, on Jan 26 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

I tried to do some comparison testing of the bolt but they are fluctuating too much. I think I need to add a second regulator to it. Probably a Stabilizer since it can handle Co2 as well. Quick question, though. To have the stab work correctly, it needs at least 100 psi pressure difference, which means I would be running around 700 psi. Do I simply need to mess with the velocity adjuster to correct for the lower pressure? Will I run into any issues?

More likely the second reg/stab will starve the valve, they recharge wicked fast. If you are having velocity issues, you may need work in the reg of the valve.

Check the o-ring on the reg piston. unscrew the back cap, slide the springs out, and then stick a toothpick in the inner side of the reg body to pop out the piston. Check the o-ring on it.
Make sure the spring pack is well greased and clean.
And lastly make sure the reg-seat is in good condition.

If you are running HPA on it you will have to switch out the reg piston for a high-pressure one if you haven't already...

[Lord Odin]

My velocity is manageable but I think it can be more consistent. My standard deviation changes a lot. What would happen if I threw a 2nd reg on? Considering its semi-auto, I don't think my finger is going to outpace the regulator. Could you explain further why it would starve it?

The entire gun has all new o-rings and has been cleaned up. Which parts are supposed to get grease and which get oil?

There is a different piston for running HPA? Why is that? Wouldn't Co2 have given it just as much pressure?

[brycelarson]

on a mag just dump oil in the ASA - fire a bit and you're good to go.

oh, and there's really no reason to reg a mag - if you're using HPA you should be fine. Mags like pressure - and they already have a reg in the valve system - so just feed it the aprox 750 coming out of your tank and it'll be happy.

[Lord Odin]

Perhaps I just need a smaller bored barrel to shoot the reballs with. Right now, I'm just using the perfect ceramic and crown point to try to shoot them with and they are very overbored on those balls. That could be the source of my fluctuation. Either that or shoot paintballs...

Who still sells Automag barrels? I noticed that SP doesn't carry a back for it, so I can't use my reball insert.

This post has been edited by Lord Odin: 27 January 2009 - 08:16 AM