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WGP pump VS CCI Phantom VS Autococker pump


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#1 Rollieelmo

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 06:49 PM

I've been using the Empire Trracer for a while, but now I want a more high-end pump. One of the 3 in the title perhaps. I also need a bottomline for my Trracer. Thanks.
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#2 G4paintballer

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 06:50 PM

Wgp is autococker but I havent personally used a autococker but I have used a Phantom and they are AMAZING.
Current setup: WGP Trilogy, CCM S6, Ion Xe
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#3 Rollieelmo

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 06:53 PM

Wgp is autococker but I havent personally used a autococker but I have used a Phantom and they are AMAZING.



Oh, my bad. I remember now. I couldn't remember if Autococker was a company or not Posted Image
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#4 G4paintballer

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 06:54 PM

Ill be buying a Autococker pump, I pretty much own a Phantom I just need to get the money for it.
Current setup: WGP Trilogy, CCM S6, Ion Xe
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#5 danath 34

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 06:58 PM

IMO, a cocker pump (aka sniper, btw) is the way to go... I have tried phantoms, and even sterling pumps, but they both just dont feel right to me. A sniper just feels and shoots a lot better in my opinion.
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#6 Klub

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 07:05 PM

Phantom just because stock class is sexier imo, the only bottom line I can find is this > cheap sauce Im sure you can find better.
Btw, when you double post, a small child gets bitten by an aids monkey.

Edited by Klub, 14 April 2011 - 07:05 PM.


#7 Rollieelmo

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 07:08 PM

No stock class, all open class for me.
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#8 Danny D

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 07:37 PM

If your going open class, a sniper for sure. Good luck.

#9 Shut Em Down

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 07:31 AM

Vsc phantom all the way. (for me atleast)
I <3 Phantoms and Automags!

#10 Rollieelmo

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 01:50 PM

Vsc phantom all the way. (for me atleast)



What is this "VSC" of which you speak? You seem well-learned in Phantoms Posted Image
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#11 Shut Em Down

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:31 PM

Vertical stock class. Like the one in my avatar. Consists of a 10/15 round feed tube in place of a feed neck/hopper. With an Asa that runs vertical, similar to where a regulator would be on any marker. But it is a 12 gram bucket changer.
I <3 Phantoms and Automags!

#12 Rollieelmo

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:38 PM

Vertical stock class. Like the one in my avatar. Consists of a 10/15 round feed tube in place of a feed neck/hopper. With an Asa that runs vertical, similar to where a regulator would be on any marker. But it is a 12 gram bucket changer.



I was also thinking about getting a stock class Phantom, but then I realized that you can change the body. I probably won't do tube fed because, rock'n'cock seems annoying.
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#13 Kermit

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:07 PM

If you see yourself playing stock class an open class, probably a phantom. If you go for a phantom, always get the stock class phantom and the vertical feed adapter so you have a centerfeed phantom instead of that pesky RF.

If you are going for pure open class(hopper and tank), sniper's just beat the turds off the phantom in my opinion. It's a bit heaver but the worst pump stroke on a sniper is probably the best stroke on a phantom, in all honesty. They are just nicer OC guns.

Like I said, the phantom isn't a bad gun for OC. It does have AT.

MAKE SURE to get the stock class body and adapter if you go OC phantom though.
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#14 mr.satire

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 05:11 PM

Yeah if your looking at open class take a look at the Azodin Kaos pump good little gun with a decent reg and good pump stroke.

#15 Dominerva210

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 05:22 PM

VSC Phantoms all the way. Don't knock them till you've owned them. :wub: :wub: :wub:

Phantoms in general have way more possibilities then any sniper.

Posted Image


"the traccer is all plasticy and feels like an old BE gun when you pump it. yuck!"- cockerpunk May 31, 2011 11:47 am

I wouldn't trust someone who makes an ad like that to fill a cup of water.


#16 Rollieelmo

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 09:37 PM

Here's what I'm thinking:

-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-Bottomline
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-I want steel-braided line because I heard some things about CO2 breaking macroline
-I also want to have the ability to use 12 grams, but idk how it would be set up
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#17 Dominerva210

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:33 AM

Here's what I'm thinking:

-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-Bottomline
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-I want steel-braided line because I heard some things about CO2 breaking macroline
-I also want to have the ability to use 12 grams, but idk how it would be set up


I'd say if you want to switch from bottom line and straight VSC, buy a vertical stock class and then use that same bottom line kit suggested for your trracer. You'd just take the dump charger off and screw the 1/8th adapter into the vertical ASA.

Posted Image


"the traccer is all plasticy and feels like an old BE gun when you pump it. yuck!"- cockerpunk May 31, 2011 11:47 am

I wouldn't trust someone who makes an ad like that to fill a cup of water.


#18 Watcher

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:52 AM

Go to the pump section on this forum if you want a lot more information.

The general idea is that Sheridan based pumps ("Snipers", 'Cockers converted to snipers, CCMs, Azodin KaosPumps, old PMIs, anything "stacked tube design") is better for OC because of smoother operation and a particular weight and balance giving them more of a "semi feel". This gives them more allure in the tournament scene. They also look more modern, and accept most hoppers and barrels.

Nelson based pumps (NelSpots, Phantoms, Trracers, Bushmasters, Lapcos, Carters, Gargoyles, etc) are better for stock-class play because of lighter weight, naturally better air efficiency, and different weight balance making it more maneuverable for "rock-n-cock" operation and quick snap-shooting.
Phantoms are thought to be the most customisable pump on the market right now, and I agree with that.


If you want a pump that does everything, get a Phantom. If you want a good OC gun that can do some SC, go with the Sheridan based pump. If you want a primarily SC gun than can do some OC, look for a Nelson based pump.


The middle-ground is the Sterling. They have Nelson like valve/hammer layouts with Sheridan like bolt/pump systems. You get the best of both worlds at the cost of some weight and lack of customisability and parts.


Here's what I'm thinking:
-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-Bottomline
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-I want steel-braided line because I heard some things about CO2 breaking macroline
-I also want to have the ability to use 12 grams, but idk how it would be set up


Sounds like you are a candidate for a Phantom. Go for a VSC .45with a hardline to the valve, and buy a centerfeed body. It's very easy to run a bottomline on that setup.

Phantoms are all over the BSTs, look around. Good used ones can be had all the time.

Edited by Watcher, 16 April 2011 - 12:55 AM.

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#19 Hibiki54

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:07 AM

You might want to consider something like in Kermit's pic
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#20 The Inflicted

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 09:53 AM

I'd get a bottomline kit for your Trracer before you spend any money changing pumps altogether.
ANS and I&I both sell good kits for under $10.

I actually bought my Trracer AFTER I built a custom minisniper and a VSC Phantom, and I find myself using the Trracer more and more.

#21 Kermit

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 09:58 AM

Bottomline the trracer. If you like that more than a sniper, You'll most like love the phantom.

I'm more of a sniper guy myself but the phantom was one of the best guns I ever owned.

#22 Rollieelmo

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:04 AM


Here's what I'm thinking:

-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-Bottomline
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-I want steel-braided line because I heard some things about CO2 breaking macroline
-I also want to have the ability to use 12 grams, but idk how it would be set up


I'd say if you want to switch from bottom line and straight VSC, buy a vertical stock class and then use that same bottom line kit suggested for your trracer. You'd just take the dump charger off and screw the 1/8th adapter into the vertical ASA.


Where can I find a bottom line for a Trracer? VSC is the 12 gram changer where the reg would be on most guns right?


Here's what I'm thinking:
-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-Bottomline
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-I want steel-braided line because I heard some things about CO2 breaking macroline
-I also want to have the ability to use 12 grams, but idk how it would be set up


Sounds like you are a candidate for a Phantom. Go for a VSC .45with a hardline to the valve, and buy a centerfeed body. It's very easy to run a bottomline on that setup.

Phantoms are all over the BSTs, look around. Good used ones can be had all the time.


That was actually a description of the Phantom I wanted Posted Image . I'll ceck he BST, but I might go new.

I'd get a bottomline kit for your Trracer before you spend any money changing pumps altogether.
ANS and I&I both sell good kits for under $10.

I actually bought my Trracer AFTER I built a custom minisniper and a VSC Phantom, and I find myself using the Trracer more and more.


Last time I checked, they were out of the bottom lines. And I like the Trracer (new Empire one not the old one), but the feedneck being offset drives me crazy.

I also want to be able to use 12 grams for night play.

Edited by Rollieelmo, 16 April 2011 - 11:14 AM.

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#23 Kermit

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:14 AM

Buy an ASA reducer, some fittings, as ASA and some ASA bolts. #10-32 is the size for the bolt.

If you buy a VSC phantom, then you can just take off the 12 gram changer, put on the ASA reducer and run a bottomline.

Posted Image

With the Trracer bottomlined, you'd just run the ASA reducer through the back of the valve kind of like this. This one has the ASA backwards with a dropout changer.
Posted Image

Edited by Kermit, 16 April 2011 - 11:16 AM.


#24 Iain

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:16 PM

Stock class= Phantom
Open class= Sniper
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#25 The Inflicted

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:36 PM

I made my current bottomline kit out of some parts I had handy.
Kermit's already spelled out all the components you need to make your own kit.
Here is the cheap kit I was referring to, but it's been a while since I've checked to see if they're in stock: http://www.ansgear.c...tomlinekit8.htm

Here's my gun:
When I first got it it had a microline kit for the bottomline, but I replaced that with my own fittings and a steel braided hose wrapped in tape.
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Posted Image

#26 Rollieelmo

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:32 PM

Will that bottomline fit on a Phantom?
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#27 True Colours

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:35 PM

Snipers feel more natural and out perform phantoms, There's a reason top pump teams such as the Hitmen, 3DK and APC only use snipers...

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#28 Rollieelmo

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:49 PM

Snipers feel more natural and out perform phantoms, There's a reason top pump teams such as the Hitmen, 3DK and APC only use snipers...


Well I also want to be able to use 12 grams at night. And I don't want to spend more than $300.

Could I use an Ego feedneck on it? Or is there another one I could get?

Edited by Rollieelmo, 16 April 2011 - 03:42 PM.

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#29 The Inflicted

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:20 PM

Will that bottomline fit on a Phantom?


Yes, it will, but there's a trick to a CCI .45 grips- they impart a slight upward angle on bottomline adapters and stocks used on it.
Most players dislike this kind of configuration and either use a bottomline adapter that has a built-in downwards angle or use an adapter between the frame and the bottomline ASA to correct the angle. When I was buying a bottomline adapter for my Phantom I made sure that it was already angled.

Snipers feel more natural and out perform phantoms, There's a reason top pump teams such as the Hitmen, 3DK and APC only use snipers...


Snipers only feel more "natural" to players who already used to the bulk and height of most electronic guns, which is why tournament players who learned using electronic guns and transition over to pump tend to prefer Snipers.

As for the performance, I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that Snipers perform better. These are pump guns we're talking about so they all shoot as fast as you can pump them and pull the trigger, and it's a rare sniper that's more gas efficient than a bone-stock Phantom, not that it matters with pumps.

#30 Kermit

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:39 PM


Snipers feel more natural and out perform phantoms, There's a reason top pump teams such as the Hitmen, 3DK and APC only use snipers...


Well I also want to be able to use 12 grams at night. And I don't want to spend more than $300.

Could I use an Ego feedneck on it? Or is there another one I could get?


OC is a close as you can get to a standard paint gun while still being allowed to call it a pump. You can ego mod a feedneck(super stanchy customs, MCB) for most snipers and some have threaded feednecks.

edit: Yes, you can run a 12 gram changer on a sniper. Efficiency just won't be as good as on a phantom/nelson.

This test looks promising, we just don't know what he was chrono'd at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ONTz8IcuTc

Edited by Kermit, 16 April 2011 - 04:49 PM.


#31 Rollieelmo

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:04 PM

Well, I have my heart set on a Phantom. I'm pretty sure this is what I want

-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-VSC
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-Metal line for CO2
-12 gram changer

Do phantoms have to run on CO2?
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#32 The Inflicted

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:53 PM

Well, I have my heart set on a Phantom. I'm pretty sure this is what I want

-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-VSC
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-Metal line for CO2
-12 gram changer

Do phantoms have to run on CO2?


No, they don't. I usually run mine on HPA for convenience.
Posted Image

Also, if you're wanting to convert a VSC to direct feed, the cheapest option I know of is to modify a Spyder feedneck to fit.
Here's how I did it: http://www.mcarterbr...tml#post1478424

#33 Rollieelmo

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 07:36 PM


Well, I have my heart set on a Phantom. I'm pretty sure this is what I want

-Centerfeed
-45 grip
-11'' barrel
-VSC
-Green/Black acid splash (idk which)
-Metal line for CO2
-12 gram changer

Do phantoms have to run on CO2?


No, they don't. I usually run mine on HPA for convenience.

Also, if you're wanting to convert a VSC to direct feed, the cheapest option I know of is to modify a Spyder feedneck to fit.
Here's how I did it: http://www.mcarterbr...tml#post1478424



I'm kinda thrown through a loop now. Is that the only way to get a clamping feedneck on a phantom? I have an Ego clamping feedneck, but I don't want to modify it in any way because need it for my Ego.
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#34 The Inflicted

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:03 PM

Oh, no, there's several ways.
CCM sells an adapter for the VSC.
CCI sells direct vertical feed bodies

I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of methods, but modifying a Spyder feedneck is by far the cheapest.

#35 Rollieelmo

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:56 PM

Oh, no, there's several ways.
CCM sells an adapter for the VSC.
CCI sells direct vertical feed bodies

I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of methods, but modifying a Spyder feedneck is by far the cheapest.



So when I order, if I ask for a clamping feedneck, he'll just add it to the order?
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#36 Rollieelmo

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 04:58 PM

Poor Kittens...
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#37 Eskimo

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 07:26 PM

yes, if you order a VSC and the feedneck you have both options

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#38 KillaChris

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:35 AM

Dayummmm!!!

If you see yourself playing stock class an open class, probably a phantom. If you go for a phantom, always get the stock class phantom and the vertical feed adapter so you have a centerfeed phantom instead of that pesky RF.

If you are going for pure open class(hopper and tank), sniper's just beat the turds off the phantom in my opinion. It's a bit heaver but the worst pump stroke on a sniper is probably the best stroke on a phantom, in all honesty. They are just nicer OC guns.

Like I said, the phantom isn't a bad gun for OC. It does have AT.

MAKE SURE to get the stock class body and adapter if you go OC phantom though.
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#39 YoungGun32

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:01 AM

A pump can not be an autococker because the name autococker is exactly that, a marker that auto cocks.

Wgp is a brand of autocockers that is frequently turned into a pump.

A "sniper" is the general term for any cocked turned into a pump.

If this is your first pump I recommend a sniper


#40 Cpt Bebop

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:57 AM

... please... for the love of god... look at the date of a post before you chime in...

#41 Myrkul

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:16 PM

... please... for the love of god... look at the date of a post before you chime in...


^This^

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