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"illegal players" rumor from PBN


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#1 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:10 PM

Per this thread taking place over at PBN-

http://www.pbnation....=3589961&page=2

And of course, since this is a chance to take a chip at me, you can certainly expect PBN's greatest and brightest mods to start questioning intentions and yada yada-

http://www.pbnation....90#post71152790

Our "intention" was to support the college paintball league, pure and simple. What caused the USF Paintball Club to drop the event was our misinterpretation of ONE rule, which is stated here-

NCPAPaintball.org >> Nationals >> Registration >> Link to PBNation http://www.pbnation....d.php?t=2071178

"In order to enter the field of competition a player must be a full-time student at the University (this means the school or campuses must have the same admission process). The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements. - JoshNCPA"

We took that definition at face value. It also says-

I believe all of the Class A Universities offer Enrollment Verification services - Which we all brought from the Office of the USF Registrar
two Enrollment Verifications per player - we did this and brought two per player
verification will be referenced to the Roster listed on APPA’s website - yep that checked out


Then if you read here, for Class AA Chris Raehl says below-

For Class AA, bring something with your name and birth date and your student ID.

- Chris
Source - http://www.pbnation....58#post33030258


There was no such thing as an "illegal student" on our roster, or "illegal player". Yes, most of us met the rule listed above. We just didn't know there were ADDITIONAL rules that needed to be followed. It doesn't say it on that thread, we read it, verified the players were in their graduating semester, and we moved on preparing for the event.

That post that is referenced from the NCPA website, should say that - if you are graduating and are not full time, you need enrollment verification for the current AND previous semester, to verify that you were a full time student the semester prior. It doesn't say that! Let's read it again-

"In order to enter the field of competition a player must be a full-time student at the University (this means the school or campuses must have the same admission process). The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements."

Does it say anything about being a full time student, the semester prior in that post? No

We met the requirements as it was stated on that post, which is referenced on the website here-

http://ncpapaintball...s/registration/ >> Class A Enrollment Verification Process

We read that, we thought we met the requirements and we continued with saving money and preparing for the event.

FACTS -

1) Every person on the USF Roster was an active, degree seeking student at the University of South Florida
2) Every player on our roster, turned in TWO SEALED COPIES of their enrollment verification. We were hiding NOTHING from the NCPA or Chris.
3) The reference to the thread on PBNation is MISLEADING, as it says nothing about verifying the semester prior, or being a full time student the semester prior.

The students from USF who attempted to participate in this event made a SIGNIFICANT investment of time, money and resources to prepare for this event. We all purchased brand new jerseys, went through HELL with USF to get them approved, we bought a hotel room that no one stayed at to meet the "stay at an NCPA Hotel or pay the NCPA $200" rule, many took time off work to play this event, plus endless amounts of money spent on entry and paint to prepare for it.

Anyone know what the prize is for winning an NCPA event? Neither do I

We were going there with the hopes of supporting and participating in the event. This event isn't exactly "thriving" if you haven't noticed. How many teams were out there? Maybe a little more than 60 or so college teams? Out of how many hundreds, if not thousands of colleges across the US we can only scrap up around 60 to play at a NATIONAL event?

We tried to support the league, question anyone who says otherwise

#2 Jdalty

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:19 PM

The Nation strikes again.

#3 Pongo

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:20 PM

first!

dammit ninjas

#4 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:20 PM

I'll also note that TechPB has done it's best to cover the event almost every year since we started this site up. A few years ago, TechPB was the ONLY booth at the event! We have photographed it, covered it and tried to help advertise for it every single year since we launched the TechPB Business. All with no financial reward to us, we simply showed up to help the players get more out of the event.

#5 Snake-Eyes

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:21 PM

this is dumb mike USF should play NPPL instead

Edited by Snake-Eyes, 18 April 2011 - 02:21 PM.

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#6 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:22 PM

also, anyone want an USF NCPA Jersey?

never worn!

http://markerbids.com/item.php?id=1540

#7 mpg2384

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:24 PM

also, anyone want an USF NCPA Jersey?

never worn!

http://markerbids.com/item.php?id=1540



mine

#8 AceComets

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:24 PM

also, anyone want an USF NCPA Jersey?

never worn!

http://markerbids.com/item.php?id=1540


if i didn't have to work tonight this would be mine.

sucks you got the shaft on the NCPA thing...but i'm sure something good will come out of it.

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#9 Jdalty

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:26 PM

also, anyone want an USF NCPA Jersey?

never worn!

http://markerbids.com/item.php?id=1540


I want this so much..

#10 mpg2384

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:33 PM

I see a lot of grey in these rules and why do you have to go to multiple threads/sites to get all the answers



#11 paintballjla

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:06 PM

i know nothing about the ncpa Just form the post from people on pbn but i can tell that it is a joke. My main question is why they do not screen the participants before the day of the event, do you think that the NCAA waits till the event to screen the players. That is the only college run event that i know of that dose not have some kind of prescreening process for the participants. What a JOKE.

#12 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:09 PM

I see a lot of grey in these rules and why do you have to go to multiple threads/sites to get all the answers


That's what they are blaming us for. USF has played a couple of these, and NEVER went through this much red tape. They played Class AA last year with NO enrollment verification, played the Qualifier a few weeks ago with no hassle or red tape, but now, because I'm on the roster, they get worked over hardcore by the event promoter?

I can promise you something, if I wasn't on the roster, NONE of this would have happened to those students.

I almost went to this event mic'd up, ALMOST. For some reason, against my better judgement, I didn't do it this event. I had a gut feeling we were going to get worked over, but I didn't do it and I will regret that decision for the rest of my life. I almost went to this event with a hidden camera, but I figured that would make ME look like a paranoid nutcase.

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#13 Tygur

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:24 PM

Is the NCPA run by PBNation?

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#14 afnav2011

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:37 PM

Does it say anything about being a full time student, the semester prior in that post? No



Anyone know what the prize is for winning an NCPA event? Neither do I


2.1. Player Eligibility
2.1.1. All players must be eligible to compete in NCPA events. Eligible players must
2.1.1.1. Be enrolled as a full-time student, or
2.1.1.2. Be working full-time in a school-sanctioned co-op program between two semesters of
full-time enrollment, or
2.1.1.3. Have been enrolled as a full-time student the previous semester, be enrolled as a
part-time student the current semester, and graduating at the end of the current semester,
or

2.1.1.4. Have an exemption from the NCPA President or CEO. Exemptions may be granted
under certain circumstances, including
2.1.1.4.1. Students accepted in a degree program who are not enrolled for the current
semester due to active military service, or
2.1.1.4.2. Graduate students enrolled at least half-time while also employed by the
University in

Above copied straight out of this year's rulebook.

So yes, it does state that you needed to be full time unless you were graduating this semester (in which case you had to be full time the previous semester). I do not know what the status (in-school) of everyone on your team was, but the rule seems pretty clear. I played AA events this year without having to prove eligibility (along with everyone that played on all the teams) outside of a student ID and government ID. It may have been because this was the final event being overseen by the national level staff and not the regional level, they wanted to make sure everyone was good to go. I'd ask around to other class A teams and see if they had to prove eligibility and if not why you were singled out.

And the prize for winning is a trophy. No money/prizes (though you may get a good sponsorship out of it).
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#15 RealtorTommy

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:55 PM

So if your paying your way through school and working at the same time, you can't play if you are under the credit hours Chris establishes?

I doubt anyone would step forward but I bet that there was atleast one player that didn't meet these requirements who played the event.

#16 afnav2011

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:00 PM

Chris doesn't establish the hours required for full time, that is up to each individual school. But yes, from the way the rule is written, it would appear so. This is probably to prevent people from stacking their teams with pros and have them only be registered for one class.
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#17 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:00 PM

^^^ yes we found that later on that evening, thank you

We know what the rule is NOW. Doesn't do any of us any good, considering we're all graduating this semester, but yes thank you, we know what the rule is now, and we also know exactly where to find it.

We checked the site, we clicked the link to PBNation, took it at face value and thought we were ok.

The link to PBNation where is says "The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements." is in two places-

http://ncpapaintball...s/registration/

Click both links that say "Class A Enrollment Verification Process", both bring you to the thread on PBNation, NOT to the updated rule in the rulebook!

Two separate places on the registration page, are links to that thread on PBNation. We had no clue that there were additional rules in the rulebook. Why not just point us to the damn rulebook to begin with? Why have your customers rely on a 5 year old thread on PBNation, if the information isn't correct?

Telling players that they can be less than full time in their graduating semester, and NOT telling them that they had to have been full time the semester PRIOR is a pretty big piece of information to leave out. That's one hell of a caveat to leave out.

#18 Tygur

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:01 PM

As long as the student is a student at a college or university they should be allowed to play. This will help grow the league and the sport of paintball. I know some people will say,"What keeps a school from enrolling a pro as a student in one class and calling them a part-time student?" Make sure there are rules to prevent this.

I love this sport, it is my passion. I started a paintball club at the college I went to. I have seen the club grow and hope one day it will compete in the NCPA someday. But if things happen were a team can't play because of a shady rule or whatever, then I don't want them to be a part of that.

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#19 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:14 PM

So if your paying your way through school and working at the same time, you can't play if you are under the credit hours Chris establishes?

I doubt anyone would step forward but I bet that there was atleast one player that didn't meet these requirements who played the event.


And see, this is how I interpreted the rule that zapped me. I figured ok, you're not a full time student so you can't play the NCPA. BUT... in your final graduating semester, you can play the one event, that happens to be hosted during your final semester before graduating.

Chris told me at the event, that the rule was designed to prevent players from deliberately stretching out their graduation date to play the NCPA paintball tournament.

What about people like me? I've been taking 2 classes a semester since 2009 due to family and work, because I have a family and I can't afford to quit working cold turkey to pursue full-time enrollment, I'm not allowed to EVER play in an NCPA college paintball tournament?

Even though I'm a degree seeking student, and a supporting and active member of my college's paintball club?

I'm not allowed to participate in a single NCPA event ever? And by the way, I'm currently enrolled in THREE 5000 level graduate courses at USF for 9 credit hours. By most standards, that's full time. He certainly didn't want to hear that, that's for sure

70% of this club is gone in 3 weeks, they are almost all graduating.

It's a good message to send to college paintball players. If you can't afford to go full time, don't waste your time helping your club have representation at the NCPA, you won't ever be playing it.

#20 RealtorTommy

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:21 PM

I would have never been able to play then as when I was a student in college I also needed to earn a living to support myself.

#21 MIles_S

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:39 PM

also, anyone want an USF NCPA Jersey?

never worn!

http://markerbids.com/item.php?id=1540


EEWWWW got any without the NCPA logo?
lolololol

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#22 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:35 PM

Never understood why there were so few teams at these events. There are 60 colleges just in the state of Florida, probably MORE if you really counted.

I dunno, the experience just put a bad taste in ALOT of people's mouths, and that wasn't the intention at all.

As a consolation prize, we'll hopefully take the team up to the Chicago NPPL and play that, and jump over to LL4 after playing the NPPL.

I understand he has an event to run, and I certainly understand you need an established book of rules to follow. I'm no stranger to the PSP and I've been playing that since 2004. I also know that as an event promoter, you sometimes need to make exceptions and keep an open mind as to what went wrong. I just don't feel he gave us the patience and professionalism we deserved at the event.

It's not like it was our "holy grail" to play at CFP. We play at CFP almost EVERY single weekend, it's one of our home fields. Once the NCPA packs up and leaves, we'll be playing on the same field. The USF team has been playing in the CFPS for months now. We just wanted to have representation at the event.

We scrutinized both websites (the old NCPA site, and the new NCPA site), and scrutinized the PBNation's forums, we thought we were within the rules and eligible to play.

#23 Schuppert3

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 06:01 PM

have you checked that thread lately mike? Seems its creating some what of a controversy.

yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

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#24 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 06:52 PM

LOL unreal

so now the President of the NCPA is calling the USF Club a group of "cheaters who got caught", classic

(shakes head)

#25 SocialPaintball

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:04 PM

Mike, when I saw you out there and you said you couldn't play, I thought you meant just you, you know, cuz you're old. But man the whole team!?

Crazy.

The jerseys look sick in person!
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#26 CrazyLittle

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:06 PM

LOL unreal

so now the President of the NCPA is calling the USF Club a group of "cheaters who got caught", classic

(shakes head)


He's not accusing you. He's just asking questions.

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#27 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:15 PM

^^ And you can clearly read the only choice he gave us-


We did tell the USF team that if they were caught cheating by playing with players who were not eligible to play that we would suspend the whole team.


We obviously missed something pretty important in the rule book, so NO ONE wanted to be the one player who caused the ENTIRE team to be suspended!

We have players who dropped classes, withdrew from classes, have incompletes, players who also failed courses. We clearly had no clue what rules he was enforcing against the club. He made is extremely clear that he was going to be spending a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time contacting the school, and if ANY of the players did not meet 100% of the guidelines (that we didn't know about), THE ENTIRE TEAM AND CLUB would be suspended, banned and fined.

Not just the individual player, but THE ENTIRE TEAM! And he also hinted that this wasn't just from the NCPA, this was from the APPA as well!

Who the fuck wants to take that chance? One player drops a class and now the club is banned, and everyone is suspended from the APPA & NCPA?

We were bullied out of the event. Chris was going to do everything in his power, to send us home. If we played, and he managed to find ANYTHING on ANY of the players on the roster, he was going to suspend, ban and fine EVERYONE for one occurrence.

He bullied us out of the event, he didn't want us to play, pure and simple. He threw the whole rulebook at us and threatened the team with suspensions, bans and fines if ANYONE didn't meet 100% of the rules. No exception, no explanations, everyone is suspended for one player, in Class AA.

#28 Schuppert3

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:21 PM

Mike this is probably none of my business but has Chris always had something against you or was this just like this event? Just curious

yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

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#29 soccerpunk911

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 08:16 PM

Mike being an internet friend I think you need a pick me up.
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Edited by soccerpunk911, 18 April 2011 - 08:20 PM.


#30 chewiestmonkey

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:46 PM

some one made a smurff acount named "umadchris"

nedless to say, by the time i got done typing my unrelated post he was compleatly deleted from exsistence, lol

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#31 sotwisted

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:52 PM

Mike this is probably none of my business but has Chris always had something against you or was this just like this event? Just curious

If Chris had a petty grudge against Mike, he would ban Mike from the APPA, effectively banning him from almost every big series in the country, PSP/NCPA included. He wouldn't bother making a scene at his flagship event.

It sucks that things worked out this way - Florida teams are always a good addition to nationals. To be fair, the speed limit sign and material on a drivers license test aren't the only things I'm responsible for knowing every time I drive. If I break the law and get a ticket, it doesn't matter that I went off the pamphlet at the DMV or what the police department told me. The law is the defining authority and I'm responsible for knowing it, much like NCPA players are responsible for knowing what's in the rulebook, trivial or not. Good luck next year to the players that decide to compete.

#32 Schuppert3

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:19 PM


Mike this is probably none of my business but has Chris always had something against you or was this just like this event? Just curious

If Chris had a petty grudge against Mike, he would ban Mike from the APPA, effectively banning him from almost every big series in the country, PSP/NCPA included. He wouldn't bother making a scene at his flagship event.

It sucks that things worked out this way - Florida teams are always a good addition to nationals. To be fair, the speed limit sign and material on a drivers license test aren't the only things I'm responsible for knowing every time I drive. If I break the law and get a ticket, it doesn't matter that I went off the pamphlet at the DMV or what the police department told me. The law is the defining authority and I'm responsible for knowing it, much like NCPA players are responsible for knowing what's in the rulebook, trivial or not. Good luck next year to the players that decide to compete.


he does not have the power to do that he runs the NCPA not the APPA or the PSP or anything else.

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#33 Calidrifter

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:08 AM

While the rules must be followed, the APPA and Chris have made no effort to change the most often used link available to players. Thus, they should have been given an exception.

What they (Chris and the APPA staff) should have done was to have a normal person try to navigate to the rules. Once they see that they only reach the PBN post an exception should have been made for the USF team.

In turn if the person had made their way to the actual rule book then I could see USF not being allowed to play.

Also, the promoter and president of an organization should NOT be calling people 'cheaters' on such a highly visited site like Nation. He should have kept hi mouth shut after his 'these are the rules' post he made.

Edited by Calidrifter, 19 April 2011 - 12:11 AM.

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#34 garrett.luksich

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:31 AM

w.e. shit happens
it was a dick move.

now we get to go play CFPS, NPPL Chicago and run around at LL4 =)

Edited by garrett.luksich, 19 April 2011 - 12:32 AM.

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#35 Scheele

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:47 AM

http://ncpapaintball...PARules2010.pdf

You spend your time and money preparing for a tournament and you don't read over the actual rulebook? You knew several members of your team were not full-time students and you figured it'd be fine. It wasn't and you got boned because of it. I fail to see how this is the fault of anyone but USF Bulls.

How are you surprised that you got hit on this, Mike? You are a high profile person. Of course they are going to take a quick look at your credentials, otherwise they'd have half the industry pissed that they let you play even though you aren't eligible. They checked and your team didn't have it's shit together.

All this is, is a mistake by USF. It's actually pretty minor. Why is this a big deal? It's obvious this is a fuck up so why is techpb getting all huffy about it being unfair. Everything was great with the NCPA up until you get caught on the wrong side of the rulebook and now the story changed to how that rule is stupid. Every college sport has that same rule. It's to prevent colleges from bringing in ringers by having them take one class a semester.
You ask how you are supposed to compete when you can only take 2 courses a semester because of other obligations, you don't. College sports are meant for full time college students. It's how it has always been.
How do decide what full time is? The goverment tells us. Up here it's 15 hours a week. Any less and you are part time. Period.


This whole situation is a thousand times worse because Mike is a shit disturber. Just man up, say you guys missed the section in the rules, and get everything squared away for the nexr event. You going around and spouting off about how this sucks and that sucks makes what the guys on PBN say about you right.

TLDR; Mike. Be a fucking man.
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#36 MIles_S

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:59 AM

You mad bro?
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#37 lord_g3

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:01 AM

Is the NCPA run by PBNation?


No, but the leaders of the NCPA are Big timers in PBnation too.

and scheele... it isnt USF's fault because the "rule" that disqualified them was HIDDEN from them.

#38 Scheele

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:08 AM


Is the NCPA run by PBNation?


No, but the leaders of the NCPA are Big timers in PBnation too.

and scheele... it isnt USF's fault because the "rule" that disqualified them was HIDDEN from them.


Hidden in the size 12 print. Go to the NCPApaintball.org/new > college > rulebook. It's right there under the section 2.1 labelled "Player Eligibility". Mike talked big about how much commitment they had to put in to go to this event and nobody bothered to look at the rulebook. They fucked up. It's on them to own their mistake and come back the next event instead of bitching about how the world is out to shit in their sandbox.

Edited by Scheele, 19 April 2011 - 01:19 AM.

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#39 MIles_S

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:09 AM

Your still mad bro?
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#40 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:25 AM

TLDR; Mike. Be a fucking man.


We read this rule by Josh of the NCPA regarding eligbility, posted here-

http://www.pbnation....d.php?t=2071178

The link above is referenced in TWO locations, on the NCPA website. You can find the link here-

http://ncpapaintball...ationals/rules/

So in two places, it says-

In order to enter the field of competition a player must be a full-time student at the University (this means the school or campuses must have the same admission process). The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements.


We never caught the addition to the rule in the rulebook, because we didn't think we were going to have a problem with our seniors. The post above should be edited to say-

In order to enter the field of competition a player must be a full-time student at the University (this means the school or campuses must have the same admission process). The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements, BUT must have been full time the semester prior. Seniors who are graduating, with less than full time need to bring TWO enrollment verifications, this semester and the semester prior.

http://www.registrar...13_16_02_06.pdf

How can I "be a man" when the links provided on the NCPAPaintball.org website, in two locations, only gives you half the rule?


You think I would have wasted my time and money, trying to sneak a team into the tournament? We have tournaments here in Florida every single week.

If Raehl wants to slam people with the rulebook like this, he needs to have EVERYTHING in concerns to the rules, posted in one location. Not half on the old website, half on the new website, some scattered on the forum, then the rest on a PDF.

The point of all of this, is that he has the ability to make exceptions for teams and players as a league promoter. He bullied the team into dropping out of the event with threats of fines, suspensions and bans from the NCPA & APPA and treated the players with BRUTAL disrespect.

Why? 12162 (Mike Phillips) was on the team

The problem is that he quickly realized that I don't make any of the decisions for the USF Club, it's not my club. I am just a student / member and I contribute to it.

We all know what happened here, BELIEVE ME everyone was warned well in advance

#41 garrett.luksich

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:32 AM

okay, im done with having to defend the team over this bs.
Mike end this thread already.

if anyone has a problem with this come see me on the paintball field.
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#42 Scheele

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:38 AM



TLDR; Mike. Be a fucking man.


We read this rule by Josh of the NCPA regarding eligbility, posted here-

http://www.pbnation....d.php?t=2071178

The link above is referenced in TWO locations, on the NCPA website. You can find the link here-

http://ncpapaintball...ationals/rules/

So in two places, it says-

In order to enter the field of competition a player must be a full-time student at the University (this means the school or campuses must have the same admission process). The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements.


We never caught the addition to the rule in the rulebook, because we didn't think we were going to have a problem with our seniors. The post above should be edited to say-

In order to enter the field of competition a player must be a full-time student at the University (this means the school or campuses must have the same admission process). The primary exception for this is graduating seniors that do not need the full-time credit load to meet their graduation requirements, BUT must have been full time the semester prior. Seniors who are graduating, with less than full time need to bring TWO enrollment verifications, this semester and the semester prior.

http://www.registrar...13_16_02_06.pdf

How can I "be a man" when the links provided on the NCPAPaintball.org website, in two locations, only gives you half the rule? Why should he have to go into full registration details about every exception when it's all laid out in the rulebook? It's pretty obvious that someone claiming to be a graduating student would need to produce more evidence of their enrollment. Otherwise any part-time student could claim to be graduating that year to get in. The other thing is that the other 60 teams didn't have any trouble finding and following that rule. Stop trying to make excuses and make sure you have your "i"s dotted for the next event.


You think I would have wasted my time and money, trying to sneak a team into the tournament? We have tournaments here in Florida every single week.

If Raehl wants to slam people with the rulebook like this, he needs to have EVERYTHING in concerns to the rules, posted in one location. Not half on the old website, half on the new website, some scattered on the forum, then the rest on a PDF. The PDF document is the rulebook. It's the final say on how things are. All the rules are clearly listed right there. You guys missed a section and ran into trouble. It happens and it sucks. You only look worse for bitching about the "man" trying to keep you down. You are making this harder than it has to be.

The point of all of this, is that he has the ability to make exceptions for teams and players as a league promoter. He bullied the team into dropping out of the event with threats of fines, suspensions and bans from the NCPA & APPA and treated the players with BRUTAL disrespect. Yes, he has the ability to make an exception for USF but there is no obligation. This is the one part were you are getting the shit end of the stick. You are a disliked by much of the paintball community. Him letting your team play even though they couldn't meet the requirements would have been catastrophic for the NCPA's PR.

Why? 12162 (Mike Phillips) was on the team

The problem is that he quickly realized that I don't make any of the decisions for the USF Club, it's not my club. I am just a student / member and I contribute to it.

We all know what happened here, BELIEVE ME everyone was warned well in advance


You said yourself that Techpb has been supporting the NCPA for years, and now all of a sudden it's a crappy league? Because you were caught on the wrong end of the rulebook? You didn't realize that NCPA's administration was useless before?

Every time something happens that you don't like you always play the "PBN is keeping me down" card. When I say be a man, I mean stop bitching, realize that you made a mistake and move on. Every time I see you go off because of something like this, I lose a lot of respect for you. If you keep acting like a whiny 8 year old kid then you aren't going to get anywhere. You want to earn respect you have to be the bigger man and stop all this BS.

Go ahead and close this thread. Prove to us that you can't take people arguing against you. What did you say makes this site better than PBN?

Edited by Scheele, 19 April 2011 - 11:39 AM.

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#43 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:17 PM

^^^ when did I say it was a crappy league?

Listen up Mr. Ontario who wasn't there, I'll stop all this "BS" when Chris gives the player's the refund he offered them to leave the event.

He still has the team's entry money in his pocket. Let me see how much of a "man" you act like after you lose thousands of dollars in entry, practice, paint, jerseys, hotel and other costs to get denied entry on a mis-communication of the rules. Do you know how many thousands upon thousands of dollars, this club spent preparing for this event?

More than you've probably spent in paintball in the past 5 years. Just the TEMPLATE, for the jerseys we had made for the NCPA was $200, plus the multiple meetings we had to have with the USF Athletics Office. Not to mention time off work to play the event, missed classes and such.

So I'll make you a deal "Mr Ontario who wasn't there", the day you get YOUR college to an NCPA event, is the day I'll "stop whining like an 8 year old". The challenges required to play an NCPA are 100 times harder than ANY standard paintball team.

Do you know how hard it is to get a college to recognize a paintball club, as an official club? Nope
Do you know how hard it is, to find 10 students who are active paintball players, with the money to play this event? Nope
Do you know how hard it is, to get approval to use your school's logo on the jersey? Nope
Do you know how hard it is, to read multiple websites (NCPA Old, NCPA New, PBNation plus other pdf's) to ensure your team is in compliance? Nope
Do you know how hard it is, to get a school to fund a paintball club to play in this event? Nope


No, all you know how to do, it hope in the middle of a situation that didn't even occur in your own country, to take shots at me.


So since you obviously don't know shit about what the club went through prior to this event, and at the event, why don't YOU just mind your business, and worry about shit that's taking place in Canada, and let me worry about what's taking place at MY college. Thanks Mr. Ontario

#44 chewiestmonkey

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:17 PM

Mike admited they made a mistake in interpreting the rule, since they saw the first part of the rule, which clearly seams to imply that they would be just fine...

Scheele i dont think you get that chris raehl bullied the usf team out of the event, when that really wasnt necessary. two team members had questionable enrollment, right? chris had many options to take that could have resulted in a stisfactory arrangement, but instead he threatened the whole team with fines! as of yet, since the team chose not to participate, they were never refunded, which is shit. they bullied the team out of the event, and kept all their money.

I'd be pissed too.

frankly what im saying scheele, is your being an ass, complaing about someone elses complaints.
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#45 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:07 PM

We're not trying to say we didn't make a mistake. First off, the USF club is a brand new club, they JUST recently got recognition from USF as a real club. This took endless amounts of hard work on behalf of the President, Vice President and other contributing members of the club.

Navigating the NCPA website is a nightmare.

I got an idea, let's play a game called "Is it in the rulebook?". Click the rulebook below, and let's get started-


http://ncpapaintball...PARules2010.pdf

Q) Where in the rules, does it say that you must stay at a hotel or face a $100/$200 fine (depending on if you are Class A, or AA)
A) It's not in the rules. It's listed on the website here- http://ncpapaintball...s/registration/

"Receipt from an official event hotel showing that you are paying the NCPA rate for that hotel, or $100 (Class AA) or $200 (Class A)"

Q) Where in the NCPA Rules, does it say that a player has the ability to use a "lifetime exception" one time, to play an event if he meets the posted criteria?
A) It doesn't. But, if you click this link which refers to PBNation-

http://www.pbnation....cpa eligibility

You can read this unofficial rule change, again NOT posted in the official rulebook, -

- You've already played in the NCPA.
- You're playing on the same team you played on the last time
- You're enrolled in a degree program (you're admitted as a student, not just taking some classes)
- You have at least two full-time semesters at the school you're playing for (sorry, no Freshmen. That's also two semesters where the student was full-time, not two full-time semesters worth of credit.)
- You were enrolled full-time the previous semester (or on Co-Op or active duty or some such.)


Q) When clicking the link(s) for "Class A Enrollment Verification Process", where in the post on PBNation does it say that you needed to be a fulltime student the semester prior?
A) It doesn't. You have to read the rulebook, located in a different location to find the COMPLETE definition of the rule
NCPA Website >> Eligibility >> NCPA Game Rules - http://ncpapaintball...PARules2010.pdf



I can go on for days with this. Rules that are posted on the website, that are not in the rulebook. Rules in the rulebook, that are not fully communicated over at PBNation. Rules on PBNation, that are not posted on the website or the rulebook. You've got multiple sources of information, NCPA Old Website, NCPA New Website, Rulebook, & PBNation that are all giving little nuggets of information.


It's easy to just in the middle of the situation and call the USF Club "idiots" like Chris did for missing that rule in the rulebook. It's no one's fault that it happened, take it as a learning lesson, consolidate all the sources of information into one comprehensive rulebook, and only reference people to that.

Is missing one sentence, worth taking hundreds of dollars away from a college paintball club? This is just as much the NCPA's fault for not consolidating their information, as it ours for missing it.

Lesson learned, luckily most of the players on the USF team will be graduating after this semester. At least they now know for future events so the club (or anyone else) doesn't have to deal with what we did. Trust me, we would have much rather have been at home, at the beach, or studying for finals than chasing Chris around the event trying to get shit resolved at the last second.




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