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ATF Seizes 30 Toy Guns, Says "They Can Be Converted Into Machine Guns"


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#1 tapthepope

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:31 PM

(because I can't figure out how to embed this shit)

I know its not paint ball, but with this resurgence of milsim/tactical play I feel that players and shop owners should thread carefully. Especially with this level of idiocy controlling powerful positions.

Federal laws don't require the orange tips on markers so RAP4 owners don't take your M16 replica or whatever outside of it's case where everyone and their mother can see you put it in your trunk. Even to me, at 50+ feet away it kinda looks like the real thing.

Edited by tapthepope, 18 April 2011 - 10:34 PM.

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#2 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:41 PM

Just another example of those in charge with their heads up their asses.

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Edited by andrewthewookie, 18 April 2011 - 10:41 PM.

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#3 Jweb

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:43 PM

I think it would take a hell of a lot of work to convert an airsoft gun into a firearm, that is if it's even possible at all.

Edited by Jweb, 18 April 2011 - 10:43 PM.

I kind of like neck shots, they give other people the impression that I have a social life.

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#4 Algae

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:44 PM

I think it would take a hell of a lot of work to convert an airsoft gun into a firearm, that is if it's even possible at all.

Not according to Fox News... :dodgy:

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#5 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:45 PM

I saw a story like this once, and they showed that while it would be possible to eventually fire real bullets, it would damage itself beyond use after one shot. It would also cost more money and time that it would take to illegally purchase a real firearm.

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#6 Jweb

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:48 PM


I think it would take a hell of a lot of work to convert an airsoft gun into a firearm, that is if it's even possible at all.

Not according to Fox News... Posted Image


Wait it's Fox? I've never even heard of this "Koin Local 6"...

I kind of like neck shots, they give other people the impression that I have a social life.

Meeting Mike and Willie = best paintball day ever.


#7 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:49 PM

Wait it's Fox? I've never even heard of this "Koin Local 6"...


It was Faux News that originally ran a story about how airsoft guns could be converted to "real" guns.

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#8 Jweb

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:50 PM


Wait it's Fox? I've never even heard of this "Koin Local 6"...


It was Faux News that originally ran a story about how airsoft guns could be converted to "real" guns.


Ah, thanks for the info Posted Image

I kind of like neck shots, they give other people the impression that I have a social life.

Meeting Mike and Willie = best paintball day ever.


#9 Razgriz183

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:58 PM

haha i see those "converted" airsoft guns exploding after the 1st shot
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#10 nighthunter

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:03 PM

I think it would take a hell of a lot of work to convert an airsoft gun into a firearm, that is if it's even possible at all.


not possible at all. The flimsy internal construction of an airsoft gun would not be able to withstand the pressure of a real bullet going off inside. Plus, the chamber (where bullets,or in this case, bb's go) of an airsoft gun is much too small for any bullet to fit inside. it would take hundreds of hours of work to fit a real bullet inside of an airsoft gun and when fired, the airsoft gun would most likely explode, killing or severely hurting whoever was enough of an idiot to try such a stupid stunt. In other words, even if, somehow, someone managed to modify an airsoft gun to hold real bullets, they would hurt no one but themselves!

Edited by nighthunter, 18 April 2011 - 11:04 PM.

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Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#11 Gtracer

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:04 PM

It's obvious, those guys who seized the guns just wanted free airsoft guns to play with in the office.
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#12 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:05 PM

IIRC, they took the working parts off a real gun, and fit airsoft parts around them. Possible, but so ridiculous that Faux News just had to report on it and continue their fear mongering.

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#13 pumpbusters

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:06 PM

fail

First After Mike!

what did I tell about doing that?


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#14 Alted4

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:13 PM

Yeah, the size of a bb is 6mm (about .13 inches). Try putting a 9mm Parabellum in there. I dare you.

#15 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:15 PM

It's not about trying to put a bullet in the airsoft gun, it's about modifying the airsoft gun with real gun parts to make it work. The people worrying about people doing this are creating a problem when none exists.

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#16 nighthunter

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:27 PM

It's not about trying to put a bullet in the airsoft gun, it's about modifying the airsoft gun with real gun parts to make it work.


problem. The receivers and barrels of airsoft guns are generally made of flimsy sheet metal. They would NOT EVER IN THE WORLD stand up to the pressure exerted by a rifle bullet. I dare anyone who thinks they can to try it and see what happens. Even if you put M16 internals into that receiver, guess what? That receiver is still too flimsy to take the pressure of a discharging rifle round. The only airsoft parts that would successfully work on an M16 or other real gun is maybe the sights and grips. The receiver and internal parts would NEVER be able to fire real bullets EVER.

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Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#17 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:29 PM

problem. The receivers and barrels of airsoft guns are generally made of flimsy sheet metal. They would NOT EVER IN THE WORLD stand up to the pressure exerted by a rifle bullet. I dare anyone who thinks they can to try it and see what happens. Even if you put M16 internals into that receiver, guess what? That receiver is still too flimsy to take the pressure of a discharging rifle round. The only airsoft parts that would successfully work on an M16 or other real gun is maybe the sights and grips. The receiver and internal parts would NEVER be able to fire real bullets EVER.


I never said it would work, nor did I say it ever happened. I was simply stating what the news stories said the ATF was afraid of.

Here's the article:
http://www.foxnews.c...ned-real-thing/

Edited by andrewthewookie, 18 April 2011 - 11:33 PM.

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#18 OEFVetran

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:37 PM

the receiver of an M4/M16 doesnt have much pressure exerted on it, its all exerted on the chamber, which is a part of the barrel, and the bolt/bolt face.....
which is the reason why companies like HK and FN can make guns and gun parts out of high impact temp. resistant plastic and advanced polymers.. look at the G36/XM8 or teh FN F2000/P90.

i am not saying that is possible to fully convert, but with the right receiver, its plausible.... yet again, the anti gun media and anti gun nuts are trying to instill fear in a nation that was built and protected by citizens with guns.... lets not forget our roots...

#19 Alted4

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:40 PM

Ah, the results of living in a fear based culture. Makes me want to move to Europe. I prefer a govt afraid of their people.

Edit: A few things I noticed in Fox's report: propane powered (Just no, airsoft guns fun off of batteries) and quarter inch pellets (as I posted above, the insdustry standard is 6 mm).

Edited by Alted4, 18 April 2011 - 11:47 PM.


#20 nighthunter

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:41 PM

the receiver of an M4/M16 doesnt have much pressure exerted on it, its all exerted on the chamber, which is a part of the barrel, and the bolt/bolt face.....
which is the reason why companies like HK and FN can make guns and gun parts out of high impact temp. resistant plastic and advanced polymers.. look at the G36/XM8 or teh FN F2000/P90.

i am not saying that is possible to fully convert, but with the right receiver, its plausible.... yet again, the anti gun media and anti gun nuts are trying to instill fear in a nation that was built and protected by citizens with guns.... lets not forget our roots...


I still wouldn't trust my life with the parts from a plastic or sheet metal toy.

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Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#21 OEFVetran

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:45 PM

haha, you have never used military equipment then.... and the last airsoft rifle i toyed around with, had a very robust metal receiver, can remember the name of the company, but it was nearly twice as much as a tokyo mauri m2 type airsoft rifle... which i why i said plausible.... which mean that it could, under the right circumstances and with the right materials and parts, be done, but its not practical, and certainly not likely...

#22 MUNK3H

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:52 PM

sounds like systema^^ there the super top notch airsoft guns they also make them for the military to use in training.

Edited by MUNK3H, 18 April 2011 - 11:52 PM.

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#23 OEFVetran

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:57 PM

yeah, that was the name..... the rifle was offered as a complete pre assembled M4, or a kit that you could assemble yourself, which was about 2/3's the price...

#24 MUNK3H

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:00 AM

yeah i don't remember what site it was but back when i played air soft i remember seeing a colt .45 that was built using parts from a real .45 i remember they used the slide and i think trigger thats the furthest i have seen any air soft gun get to a real one.

Edited by MUNK3H, 19 April 2011 - 12:00 AM.

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#25 cavemag

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:14 AM

You can make a gun out of a pen. I'm surprised atf hasnt banned those yet.
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#26 andrewthewookie

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:15 AM

If you're determined enough, you can use just about anything as a weapon. They should start by banning MacGyver episodes.

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#27 Robot85

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:44 PM

The ATF agent must use derder videos as evidence...




I can't believe it went that far without someone in charge telling this guy he was an idiot. There are bigger concerns out there than people trying to turn a plastic airsoft gun into a real firearm.

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#28 aj619

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 09:03 PM

Ah, the results of living in a fear based culture. Makes me want to move to Europe. I prefer a govt afraid of their people.

Edit: A few things I noticed in Fox's report: propane powered (Just no, airsoft guns fun off of batteries) and quarter inch pellets (as I posted above, the insdustry standard is 6 mm).


Some airsoft guns run off of propane, others run off of other gases like green gas red gas CO2 and even compressed air

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#29 Jdalty

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:02 PM

Watch this.

8:20

Even a firearms dealer tries to make it shoot 5.56. He couldn't do it. "Nope, it can be done."

Edited by Jdalty, 19 April 2011 - 10:17 PM.


#30 usmercenary

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:21 PM

It is their fault for not having the orange tip. ATF can get them on that. but the turning into a 'machine gun'? simply stupid.

#31 Jaggar

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 01:10 AM

The amount of material it would take to convert airsoft guns would require 90% of a real gun only excluding the cheap aluminum sites and the buttstock. Maybe forgips.. I would hardly say putting an airsoft buttstock on an M16 body is hardly making the airsoft gun deadly. Thats like saying you can convert a bicycle into a car by putting headlights on the grips and citizens should be afraid that 12 year olds are behind the wheel of a coverted bike-car.
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#32 Reds11288

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:13 AM

I don't know why they are calling them toys because their are not. Airsoft can be as Safe or Dangerous as paintball, depending on how you look at it. That's crap that you can modify them to be a real fire arm, the back pressure would blow it to hell and back. And like I said it can be as safe or dangerous as paintball, just wear safety goggles, and anything else you see fit to not loose eyes or get hurt. People these days make everything out to be worse then it really is. When I was growing up I think we had it easier and that was in the 90's and early to mid 2000's. I think maybe every other cap gun had orange tips if your lucky and shit I was shooting 22's and real BB Guns before I was ten, under parental supervision but we did it and no one thought to sit their and say that a bad idea but then again I was learning how to be safe and responsible, not being stupid. My parents, at a very young age thought my brother and I the responsibly to use objects like real fire arms, knives, bb guns, airsoft guns and most importantly of all paintball markers. But everyone was me when they were eight. Fact is fact, either way you look at things, you mess up, you'll pay for it. I think the fact that they have to have an orange tip is good but to not let them fix the problem is a little much.
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#33 Molybdenum

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:31 AM

The guns seized are only the type known as gas blowback rifles. the reason they were deemed dangerous is because the system they use is so close to that of a real AR that they became concerned that purchasing one of these would allow someone to essentially purchase an untraceable auto sear, thus an untraceable automatic weapon. While supposedly the ATF managed to fit a real upper receiver on one of these airsoft lowers, I doubt they got it to fit ( to say nothing of fire ) with anything short of an industrial grade CNC machine.

#34 RealtorTommy

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:40 AM

It would be easier to convert an existing firearm.....

#35 PeanutWing

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:51 AM

It's obvious, those guys who seized the guns just wanted free airsoft guns to play with in the office.



#36 Molybdenum

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:52 AM

It would be easier to convert an existing firearm.....

I agree.
But an existing firearm would presumably be traceable. The reasoning is that someone could do this with the untraceable airsoft lower, instead of a real lower that has to be registered.

#37 usmercenary

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 09:34 AM

I don't know why they are calling them toys because their are not. Airsoft can be as Safe or Dangerous as paintball, depending on how you look at it. That's crap that you can modify them to be a real fire arm, the back pressure would blow it to hell and back. And like I said it can be as safe or dangerous as paintball, just wear safety goggles, and anything else you see fit to not loose eyes or get hurt. People these days make everything out to be worse then it really is. When I was growing up I think we had it easier and that was in the 90's and early to mid 2000's. I think maybe every other cap gun had orange tips if your lucky and shit I was shooting 22's and real BB Guns before I was ten, under parental supervision but we did it and no one thought to sit their and say that a bad idea but then again I was learning how to be safe and responsible, not being stupid. My parents, at a very young age thought my brother and I the responsibly to use objects like real fire arms, knives, bb guns, airsoft guns and most importantly of all paintball markers. But everyone was me when they were eight. Fact is fact, either way you look at things, you mess up, you'll pay for it. I think the fact that they have to have an orange tip is good but to not let them fix the problem is a little much.


Well said

#38 larryjerry1

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:13 AM

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#39 nighthunter

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 09:02 PM

Problem: in most states, FIREARMS ARE NOT TRACEABLE! Stores only keep sales records for a few months before throwing them in the trash. The federal government and most state governments (possibly a few exceptions) never find out where certain firearms go or who buys them. Even though background checks are required in order to purchase firearms, the government never finds out why you are being checked. The only firearms that are required to be registered are fully automatic weapons (which are so expensive by themselves that the average crook could never afford one.) I don't see why the ATF is making such a big fuss over BB gun parts that might be modifiable to work on real guns. Any amateur gunsmith would be able to modify any existing semi-automatic weapon to be fully automatic much quicker than he would be able to modify parts of an airsoft gun to maybe work on a real gun.

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Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#40 konner09

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 12:49 AM

:| Same thing happened in BC but it was with Military Replicas whichmakes more sense because theyare metal
But yaits stupid

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#41 BEASTY

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 05:37 PM

To convert an airsoft gun into a real fire arm you would be better off building a real gun. You would have to strip the ENTIRE inside of the gun and I would be surprised if they could use any part of airsoft gun in a real fire arm.

What you NEED to do is mark your territory, Pee on/in the WHOLE school. I mean EVERYWHERE just SOAK IT.

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#42 nowan4ever

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 01:18 PM

i would like to blow the BS horn on this one obviously anything can be converted to a real gun if you swap out enough parts you could buy a new gun part by part and it would go faster this agent has no idea what he got himself into let the flame war begin!

#43 Merric Hoang

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:00 PM

Here in California, a real firearms cost a lot cheaper than paintball or metal airsoft rifle. If it convert an airsoft to a real firearm, then maybe it con only fit a .22 lr ammo. Pellet and copper Bb can cause more harm than a real firearm.
If everyone can walk around with a real gun, this country would be a lot safer and less crime will occur. People will build a higher awareness/alertness.
The pen in my pocket just as lethal as any real weapon and my pen is untraceable. You can pick them up in Walmart or any office department store. These ATF guy really pushing it, that is why we have more criminal and more conceal weapons.

#44 Vaellis

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:26 PM

I could go out and make a pen-gun, why don't they ban pens? Huh? I could just buy an illegal firearm for cheaper....

But anyway.....

What is this....

I don't even.....

Edited by Vaellis, 22 May 2011 - 05:27 PM.

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#45 spqr-king

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:46 PM

Just the overlords trying to put us down man

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#46 The Kia-Ya

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 12:14 AM

It's all the people that have massive hard ons for gun control. I agree with all of the above. Think how differently Columbine might have gone if everyone there was packing a 9 on them
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#47 spqr-king

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 11:52 PM

I can no sweat make my supersoaker into a acid squirting death machine!!!!! And my nerf gun can shoot posion darts.... If we look into things to much we will always find a way for something to be dangerous this is so dumb it could only be thought up buy someone who has no idea what they are talking about

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#48 DruidicRifleman

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:46 AM

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded (because I can't figure out how to embed this shit)

I know its not paint ball, but with this resurgence of milsim/tactical play I feel that players and shop owners should thread carefully. Especially with this level of idiocy controlling powerful positions.

Federal laws don't require the orange tips on markers so RAP4 owners don't take your M16 replica or whatever outside of it's case where everyone and their mother can see you put it in your trunk. Even to me, at 50+ feet away it kinda looks like the real thing.


they also are invloded in several conspiracys to Provide Weapons to the drug cartels in mexico knowingly commiting accessory Violations of International Traffic in Arms Regulations which killed a us federal agent.

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#49 joe32

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:58 PM

they didn't have orange tips so could see why they took it

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#50 Merric Hoang

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:52 PM

they didn't have orange tips so could see why they took it


that was only 1 reason why they seize those Bp gun.
The other reason was that the ATF claim those Bp marker can be turn into a real firearm shooting real bullet with only minimal adjustment

In another word.....i can just paint my AR-15 tip red then i can swing it in public. :lol: :lol:

Edited by Merric Hoang, 16 June 2011 - 07:54 PM.





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