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Polishing Internals Test/The Best Lube


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#1 KRA SHARPSHOOTER

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 10:50 AM

This is a test that I just finished for A5OG.net. Lord Odin recommended that I post it here as well.

-------------------------

First off I would like to thank Lord Odin for all of his support that he has showed me while I was worked on this test. I would also like to thank markerjunky for sharing his knowledge of sandpaper with me, and making it very easy to understand how to use sandpaper correctly. Last but not least, I thank Fraggy0117 for sending me his unpolished A-5 for use in this test.

Reason for Test:
This test was performed to determine what polishing the internals of your gun actually accomplishes, if anything. There has been a lot of talk about how some guns increased their velocity, & how it creates less wear on the internal parts, but there has never been a test to back up any of these claims.

This thread also heavily influenced the reason for this test: Polishing internals data

Setup:
Fraggy0117 was kind enough to mail me his stock Tippmann A-5 for this test. I removed the Front sight, Rear Sight, and Front Grip so that I could more easily disassemble and reassemble the gun. The decision was main to eliminate the Cyclone from this test so that it could not effect the result. To eliminate the Cyclone I simply took a piece of packing tape and covered the port on the side of the Power Tube. I also found it easier to manually load the paintballs directly into the chamber rather than use push nob on the cyclone to feed the balls. I mad sure that I held the gun at an angle so that the paint did not fall out.

Unfortunately I did not have HPA available for this test, nor was I able to use a stabilizer. I did use a Remote line, and delayed the firing so that the CO2 could convert into a gas in between shots. An 8" stock barrel that was unported was used to ensure that the paintaballs reached the maximum velocity without any pressure leak behind the ball. The Chronograph that was used, was a RADARchron, and I installed a fresh battery before this test began. Here is the gun & chrono that was used:

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Oils/Lubes Used:
I also wanted to do a comparison on oils and lubes, and what better time to compare them then when I can test the results of the oils/lubes before and after polishing. I tried to get my hands on as many different oils & lubes as I could, and here is what I ended up using in this test:
  • Lubriplate Oil
  • Hoppes #9
  • Gold Cup
  • TechT Gun Drops
  • TechT Gun Sav
  • Pure Lube
  • White Lithium Grease(WLG)
  • Dye Slick Lube

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Testing Facility:
I went one step farther to get as much data as I could by testing these oils/lubes in both warm and cold temperatures. The indoor temperature stayed mainly between 65 & 68 degrees F, while the outside temperatures fluctuated between -2 and 30 degrees F. I only used Nelson HotSpot paintballs for this test & I made sure that they were a fresh batch.

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Performing the Test:
I started by completely disassembling the A-5 and putting the tape over the Cyclone port on the Power Tube. When I lubed up the internals, I lubed the o-ring and & side of the Front Bolt, the o-ring & side of the Rear Bolt, the outside of the Power Tube stem, and lightly lubed the areas of the A-5's Receivers that the Front Bolt, and Rear Bolt have contact with. After lubing the gun, I reassembled it without the Front Grip, Front Sight, Rear Sight, or Cyclone. I hooked my Remote line directly to the tombstone so that I didn't have any possible pressure loss from the Bottom Air line. The tank that I used was a 20oz CO2 tank.

The first shot while chronographing registered at 320fps. 10 shots later, I got the fps lowered to 280. Once the gun was chronographed I began the testing. I shot 30 shots indoors, recording the velocity for each shot. Once I was finished with those 30 shots, I set the A-5, still connected to the remote and 20oz. tank outside so that the temperature of the tank would cool. I let the gun sit outside for 15 minutes & then shot 30 shots, recording the velocity of each one.

Once I finished shooting those 30 shots, I brought the gun inside and disassembled it. I wiped off the lube with a paper towel and used a cotton cloth with a little bit of rubbing alcohol to remove the rest of the lube. I made sure not to get the Alcohol on the o-rings, lest they should dries out and crack. Then I took the next lube, and lubed the gun up the same as before.

I repeated the process for each lube.(lube gun, shoot 30 shots indoors, let cool outside for 15minutes, shoot 30 shots outdoors, de-lube)

Once I had gathered all my data from test shooting, it was time to polish the internals with the sandpaper method. I took a piece of 600 grit sandpaper and got both the sandpaper, and the receivers of the A-5 wet. I polished the receivers using the Front & Rear Bolt as guides in their respected areas. Once the sludge started to build up, I would rinse it out.

The previous step was repeated with 800, 1000, 1500, & finally 2000 grit sandpaper. Less time was taken on the lower grit numbers than the higher grit numbers. WD-40 was used to clean out the sludge between each grit size so that I could have a clean surface to work on.

The following videos were made while I performed this test, and it covers the how to process more clearly. Click the link below the video for HD clarity. :D
Polish Internals - Sandpaper Method - Part 1
Watch in HD

Polish Internals - Sandpaper Method - Part 2
Watch in HD

Pictures of before and after polishing(before is first):
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Once I had finished polishing, it was time to repeat the test shooting of 30 psintballs inside, and 30 paintballs outside with all the lubes again. I was running out of days that I could complete the testing in, so I ended up skipping Lubriplate Oil & WLG on the testing after polishing.

Testing Data:
Here it is:Polishing Internals Test/The Best Lube - Google Docs

Understanding the Data:
I'm using some of Lord Odin's information here, because he was very good at describing what I am trying to say. :)

Rows 1 through 30 are the shot numbers recorded in feet per second (fps). The data is analyzed below the raw data and the specifications for the part are below the statistics.

Let's talk about a few statistics definitions so we can comprehend what we're looking at. Range is the maximum amount of velocity change that occurred. If you take the highest velocity and subtract the lowest velocity, you have the maximum difference, which is the Range. It is good to know because it shows the maximum potential fluctuation that can occur. It does not imply that is what most of the shot fluctuations will be.

The Mean is the average velocity. You can obtain it by adding up all the velocities and dividing it by the number of shots. It will give you the middle point of the velocities and what you will expect to see most of your shots to be the closest to.

Variance is another statistic but is usually used to obtain the standard deviation (SD). The SD is where we want to look at for consistency. The SD isn't simply dividing the range by 2. It's the square root of the variance but to obtain the variance is a bit tricky and it isn't necessary to explain how to obtain it for this test; only what it means is important. It's expressed in terms of the unit being measured, or in our case fps. The SD shows how much it fluctuates from the mean. Generally speaking, if the sampled distribution is normal, then 1 standard deviation should encompass about 68% of all shots. You can go 2,3, or more standard deviations to cover more of the population but most of your shots will lie in only 1 standard deviation. We can thank the wonderful Bell curve for that. The SD is what we'll be looking at for consistency as it shows how much the velocity will usually fluctuate.

As you may have noticed, the range is not always the same as the standard deviation. That is because outliers can affect the range but they have a lesser impact on the standard deviation. That is why standard deviation is a better measurement for central tendency.

Conclusion:
1. I think it can be agreed upon, that polishing your internals is a great idea. For the most part you will see an increase in shot to shot consistency(also depends on lube), which is a very good thing. The following list shows which lubes had the greatest consistency(lowest STD Dev.) after polishing(the numbers in parenthesis reflect before polishing numbers, note how they are almost in the same order):
  • 3.17 - Pure Lube (4.34)
  • 4.62 - TechT Gun Drops (5.40)
  • 5.07 - TechT Gun Sav (5.75)
  • 5.15 - Hoppes #9 (7. 17)
  • 5.27 - Gold Cup (7.11)
  • 6.54 - Dye Slick Lube (7.01)
  • 6.96 - White Lithium Grease (10.87)

2. Not all lubes are created equal. Some lubes increased performance after polishing drastically greater than other lubes. The following list shows the performance increase for each lube at indoor temperatures:
  • +35.97% - White Lithium Grease
  • +28.17% - Hoppes#9
  • +26.96% - Pure Lube
  • +25.88% - Gold Cup
  • +14.44% - TechT Gun Drops
  • +11.83% - TechT Gun Sav
  • +6.70% - Dye Slick Lube

3. Cold temperatures have a negetive effect on some lubes after polishing. I'm not exactly sure why this is, but it must have to do with something in the Lube freezing over. Gold cup was the worst, with a decrease of 37.48% in performance, followed by TechT Gun Drops at -6.86%, and Dye Slick Lube at -4.71%. All the other lubes saw and increase in performance outdoors after polishing.

Final Conclusion:
I highly recommend that you polish your internals, either with the Brillo Pad method, or the Sandpaper method. From these numbers and the numbers posted in the Polishing internals data thread, I believe that the sandpaper method yeilded a better result in the final outcome, but they both increased performance.

One lube in particular stands out above the rest & that lube is Pure Lube. It had the highest consistency of any lube before and after polishing, both indoors and outdoors. It also had the 3rd highest performance gain after polishing. TechT Gun Sav also has good solid numbers, except for the cold temperature test.

Edited by KRA SHARPSHOOTER, 20 February 2009 - 09:39 AM.


#2 Leafy

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:55 PM

This is good. I would have liked to see WD40 used just to prove that it is NOT a lubricant. And since this is a tippmann and the question has been asked before motor oil and automatic tranny fluid would have been nice in the test too.

#3 Kidneys

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 09:48 PM

I have been using oil on the internals, is that a bad thing? Oh, and I use grease on the cyclone. Sorry for the noob question. :(
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#4 Lord Odin

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 08:54 AM

This is good. I would have liked to see WD40 used just to prove that it is NOT a lubricant. And since this is a tippmann and the question has been asked before motor oil and automatic tranny fluid would have been nice in the test too.

LOL, talk about ghetto lube. I wouldn't be surprised if people tried using mud, too.

#5 Weigel21

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 09:37 AM

Actually, Automatic Transmission Fluid works great in my Stingray and Brass Eagle recommends using it.

#6 Lord Odin

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 01:33 PM

I have been using oil on the internals, is that a bad thing? Oh, and I use grease on the cyclone. Sorry for the noob question. :(

You should be using grease on your Cyclone. Oil is just too thin for it.

Actually, Automatic Transmission Fluid works great in my Stingray and Brass Eagle recommends using it.

Perhaps we could do an o-ring test to see if certain non-paintball lubricants destroy o-rings like people claim.

Here's some I would include on the list:
-WD40
-rubbing alcohol
-transmission fluid
-motor oil

Any others?

#7 Evil Fingers

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 05:47 AM

That was a very good read and Welcome to TechPb, KRA.

#8 Spitlebug

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 07:42 AM

This is a good test, though I note that some fields are missing in some of the tests. Is this due to a lack of lubricant?

Also, you may want to identify each product instead of just using an acronym such as WLG. I am assuming it means white lithium grease but that doesn't really give any detail to the chemical compostion of the lubricant. Is this a Dow 33 or Dow 55 equivalent product?

I am unsure what Hoppes #9 is. What is it typically used for lubricating?

It is unlikely that any of the paintball companies will divulge what is in thier lubricants.

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#9 Lord Odin

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 07:57 AM

Hoppes #9 is a lubricating oil used by firearms and is recommended by Tippmann right in their manual.

#10 Leafy

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 08:46 AM

and white lithium grease is just that white lithium grease, its a replacement for standard grease and is much better. its the recomended lube from tippmann for the cyclone piston. and I use it to lube barrel threads that need to be lubed, aka M98 barrel threads.

#11 Dogma

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 12:31 PM

I have been using oil on the internals, is that a bad thing? Oh, and I use grease on the cyclone. Sorry for the noob question. :(

You should be using grease on your Cyclone. Oil is just too thin for it.

Actually, Automatic Transmission Fluid works great in my Stingray and Brass Eagle recommends using it.

Perhaps we could do an o-ring test to see if certain non-paintball lubricants destroy o-rings like people claim.

Here's some I would include on the list:
-WD40
-rubbing alcohol
-transmission fluid
-motor oil

Any others?


Compatibility data for o-ring and lubricant materials have been published for free. Now all we need to know is what the lubes are made of. Repeating the testing should not be necessary, if we can find out what materials are being used in o-rings and lubes for paintball. I had a quick look in the handbook I linked to, and almost any o-ring material is suitable for CO2 and nitrogen. HPA starts getting picky, probably because O2 is pretty reactive. Polyurethane and silicone seem to be the likely candidates for o-ring material on that point. Silicone is not very good mechanically, being prone to tearing and having a low tensile stress. So, I'm guessing that most o-rings used in markers are polyurethane. If someone wants to use something that is not "paintball lube" they can look in the charts to see if it is compatible with polyurethane.

#12 Snipez4664

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 12:54 PM

I have been using oil on the internals, is that a bad thing? Oh, and I use grease on the cyclone. Sorry for the noob question. :(

You should be using grease on your Cyclone. Oil is just too thin for it.

Actually, Automatic Transmission Fluid works great in my Stingray and Brass Eagle recommends using it.

Perhaps we could do an o-ring test to see if certain non-paintball lubricants destroy o-rings like people claim.

Here's some I would include on the list:
-WD40
-rubbing alcohol
-transmission fluid
-motor oil

Any others?


Compatibility data for o-ring and lubricant materials have been published for free. Now all we need to know is what the lubes are made of. Repeating the testing should not be necessary, if we can find out what materials are being used in o-rings and lubes for paintball. I had a quick look in the handbook I linked to, and almost any o-ring material is suitable for CO2 and nitrogen. HPA starts getting picky, probably because O2 is pretty reactive. Polyurethane and silicone seem to be the likely candidates for o-ring material on that point. Silicone is not very good mechanically, being prone to tearing and having a low tensile stress. So, I'm guessing that most o-rings used in markers are polyurethane. If someone wants to use something that is not "paintball lube" they can look in the charts to see if it is compatible with polyurethane.

Black O-rings tend to be Nitrile/Buna. You also see PTFE, Viton, and Polyurethane rings used.
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#13 Dogma

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 01:27 PM

Black O-rings tend to be Nitrile/Buna. You also see PTFE, Viton, and Polyurethane rings used.


OK. My own experience in paintball is still very limited, so I wasn't sure how much variety to expect there. I didn't really expect to see that much, but it makes sense in retrospect. The Nitrile/Buna would be in the lower-end guns like my Spyder MR1 (I forgot mine were black). Mid-range guns probably have polyurethane with the Viton and PTFE in the higher-end guns and probably in particular applications in the mid-range. So, if someone wanted to test, they would have to test against all those materials using all the potential lubricants. I don't think that would be less work than finding out what's in the lubes and checking the tables for compatibility.

OTOH, "paintball lube" isn't that expensive, especially considering how long a bottle should last, and it would be formulated for compatibility with the likely o-ring materials you mentioned. Why use anything else? I guess some noobs just need to be made aware of the potential hazards so they don't just grab whatever's around the house.

#14 KRA SHARPSHOOTER

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 09:41 AM

Videos added to the first post! You can also watch in HD if you're willing to wait for it to load. :D

#15 TippmannEffect

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 12:15 PM

I would love to see someone compare *Dupont* Teflon Silicone spray to the lubes listed in the 1st post.
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#16 Lord Odin

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 01:38 PM

I would love to see someone compare *Dupont* Teflon Silicone spray to the lubes listed in the 1st post.

I'm gonna do just that. I'm repeating the test with some added lubricants to verify the data. I have a different brand of Teflon spray though. I think Remington made it.

#17 brycelarson

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 01:44 PM

I would love to see someone compare *Dupont* Teflon Silicone spray to the lubes listed in the 1st post.

I'm gonna do just that. I'm repeating the test with some added lubricants to verify the data. I have a different brand of Teflon spray though. I think Remington made it.


the remington spray teflon is a great lube - I've just never used it on paintball guns. knives and iron guns - slick, smooth and hangs on well.

#18 Lord Odin

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 07:46 PM

Since people have been doubtful of the validity of the results on the A5OG, I did a partial repeat test. I couldn't do the unpolished portion since all of my guns were already polished. I'm also sorry to say that I did not get the cold weather data either. Between my personal life and rising temperatures due to the changing seasons, I couldn't do a good cold temperature test. So all I was able to get was the warm temperatures. So this data can only be compared to the 'After Polishing Indoors" data.

I'd like to thank KRA for letting me borrow some of his lubes and Brower (from A5OG) for donating a lube, as well.

Here's the setup that I used.
-A5 receivers w/ polished internals
-polished X7 hammer
-X7 valve
-Stock powertube w/ packing tape over Cyclone/RT port and FVA flushed
-Orange Howitzer front bolt
-Maddmann blue drive spring
-Metadyne folding stock
-Lapco ION threaded barrel adapter
-SP Freak 12" front and back
-Reball insert
-Reballs
-F1 Shooting Chrony
-2 Liter Plus Dual regulator w/ HP spring
-7/8" extension cap for regulator
-CP Direct Mount On/Off ASA w/ braided hose
-HPA on remote line

In addition to KRA's lubes, I also added the following to the test:
-Senco Air Tool Oil
-Remington Dri-Lube (spray on teflon)
-Smart Parts Sleek (grease)
-Marine grease

I tried setting the gun as close to 280 fps, using Hoppes #9, as possible since that's considered the stock lubricant to use. I also wiped down parts, except for the o-rings, with rubbing alcohol and water to thoroughly clean the parts of the previous lubricant.

Here's the data I got:
http://www.mediafire.com/?m0wytkmnnjl

As you can see, the results are different than that of Kevin's as far as a "best lube" is concerned. I would like to say that this should by no means be the final say on the results. Seeing as there are two different behaviors in performance, I'm not going to declare any winner. Especially since we only have 2 sets of data and results could go either way. I think if more people conducted similar tests and showed their data, we would get a better consensus of what the better performers might be.

I'm wondering if build tolerances, air source, or pressure/volume have anything to do with performance of any specific lube. For example, perhaps some work better when applied in thinner applications, some react differently with different gases, or even the speed at which the internals operate can affect a lube's performance.

So my official stance is that the data is inconclusive as of right now.

Edited by Lord Odin, 29 June 2009 - 09:31 PM.


#19 KRA SHARPSHOOTER

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 07:51 PM

First off, I am very glad that you decided to attempt this test, and thank you for inspiring me to begin doing tests of my own!

I am very excted to see that HPA is a much more consistent air source over CO2. This is very apperant in the comparison of your Std Dev vs. my Std Dev of any of the lubes. It can clearly be seen that all of your Std Dev are less than 3, while most of mine aren't even under 5. I will definitely be using HPA for all my tests from now on.

Build tolerances will also play an important factor in how different lubes perform.

The most striking thing that I see is that the WLG has the lowest Std Dev. In my testing the WLG had the worst Std Dev.

I believe that part of the cosistency problems with the greases on my testing were due to the fact that CO2 cools as it expands. With the colder temperatures inside the marker it could have caused the greases to become stiffer. I would be very interested to see how the WLG performs in cold weather with HPA.

I am glad to see that your Velocity measurements read almost the same as mine. The Pure Lube in my testing had the highest fps, and that rings true in yours as well.

For the cost per lube it seems to me that Pure Lube is still one of the best investments. Mainly I like it because it is an all porpose lube so you don't need to worry about having grease for your cyclone and oil for you o-rings/seals. You just need a tube of Pure Lube and you're all set.

It does show that not all lubes are created equal, and they all perform a little bit differently than one another, but I will agree that there isn't a one lube winner. Although for the cost per lube it seems to me that Pure Lube is still one of the best investments. Mainly I like it because it is an all porpose lube so you don't need to worry about having grease for your cyclone and oil for you o-rings/seals. You just need a tube of Pure Lube and you're all set.

It's seems that any of these lubes would be fine looking at the perform aspect. The major seperator would probably be price and ease of use.

#20 Leafy

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 07:51 PM

wow thats interesting you go the highest velocity with sleek? I noticed my velocity drop when compared to gold cup, I had to switch from the blue to the green drive spring to get back up to 300 fps. But I did notice the same constancy increase that you saw in the test. There was one thing you didnt test and would be hard to test, the noticed recoil and gun movement, mine dropped way off when I switched to sleek in the old tippy

Edited by Leafy, 14 April 2009 - 07:52 PM.


#21 D.K.

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:07 PM

Amazing results. I wish you could've tried Sleek lube (SP 33)

#22 Lord Odin

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:12 PM

Amazing results. I wish you could've tried Sleek lube (SP 33)


Please read the whole thread. It was recently tried.

#23 Derek E

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:41 PM

This is good. I would have liked to see WD40 used just to prove that it is NOT a lubricant. And since this is a tippmann and the question has been asked before motor oil and automatic tranny fluid would have been nice in the test too.

or silicon lube that is used alot in the airsoft industy

#24 crzypntbllr

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:01 PM

so... would this apply to all guns or just the montneel style valve? (tippmann) Posted Image

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#25 Leafy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:06 PM

the lube part applies to all poppet markers not just CVX valve guns (tippmanns), the polishing is basically a tippmann thing or most other cast markers.

Edited by Leafy, 19 January 2010 - 07:06 PM.


#26 yaely7

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:41 AM

If I were to polish my Vibe, would I just polish the body? And how would I know I polished it correctly?

#27 brycelarson

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 09:53 AM

If I were to polish my Vibe, would I just polish the body? And how would I know I polished it correctly?


this doesn't apply to your vibe. don't do anything to your gun.

#28 WhoRok305

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 04:45 PM

Kra its good to see u around here... Straight from a5og.


#29 erg993

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:17 PM

Would polishing make my internals last longer?

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#30 FacePainter

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:22 PM

Great data, good job on the test.
Wow, looks like dye slick needs to pull it together a little?


I would have liked to see hater sauce being used.

Edited by FacePainter, 29 March 2010 - 03:23 PM.


#31 poorballer1

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 05:55 PM

what about planet eclipse gun oil? just wondering why it wasn't tested
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#32 Leafy

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 05:59 PM

what about planet eclipse gun oil? just wondering why it wasn't tested


because its the same thing as synthetic air tool oil. It just has an e on the side of the bottle. At least I assume is air tool oil, its not the same as gold cup or we'd have too many agglets complaining about fried ego boards because gold cup conducts electricity while synthetic air tool oil does not (mineral based air tool oil still does though).

#33 EricCartman

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 06:44 PM

wow polishing it makes a large difference all we need to know now how many shots can you get with it now?
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#34 Lord Odin

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 06:58 PM

wow polishing it makes a large difference all we need to know now how many shots can you get with it now?

Depends on the setup.

If its an unregulated Tippmann or you don't change the mechanical dwell, then probably less shots. You'll release more air because the hammer is opening the valve longer.

If it is regulated or you reduce the mechanical dwell, probably more shots. That's because you can control how much air is being released (either through pressure or volume) and energy that normally would be wasted to friction is now being conserved.

It would be nice to get a shot count for each though!

#35 WasabiBoi

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 11:03 PM

So we've come to a conclusion that gold cup sucks? :huh:

Shoot, I always thought it was good stuff and recommended it to others. <_<

So what kind of oil is the best then? Tect T gun drops?

I've also noticed, that Gold Cup is very runny compared to the Air tool oil I bought at Walmart. Can we get a test of that?

This is good. I would have liked to see WD40 used just to prove that it is NOT a lubricant. And since this is a tippmann and the question has been asked before motor oil and automatic tranny fluid would have been nice in the test too.

or silicon lube that is used alot in the airsoft industy


I think it's WD40.

#36 Lord Odin

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 12:42 PM

So we've come to a conclusion that gold cup sucks? :huh:

Shoot, I always thought it was good stuff and recommended it to others. <_<

So what kind of oil is the best then? Tect T gun drops?

I've also noticed, that Gold Cup is very runny compared to the Air tool oil I bought at Walmart. Can we get a test of that?


This is good. I would have liked to see WD40 used just to prove that it is NOT a lubricant. And since this is a tippmann and the question has been asked before motor oil and automatic tranny fluid would have been nice in the test too.

or silicon lube that is used alot in the airsoft industy


I think it's WD40.

Air Tool Oil was included in a repeat of the test: http://www.techpb.co...ndpost&p=272138

#37 CovertRussian

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:40 PM

Depends on the setup.

If its an unregulated Tippmann or you don't change the mechanical dwell, then probably less shots. You'll release more air because the hammer is opening the valve longer.

If it is regulated or you reduce the mechanical dwell, probably more shots. That's because you can control how much air is being released (either through pressure or volume) and energy that normally would be wasted to friction is now being conserved.

It would be nice to get a shot count for each though!


That sounds about right. I noticed my air efficiency didn't change or went slightly down. I was bummed at first, but now got rid of the Front Air Regulator bolt and use a rear spring tension one. Combined with a Palmers Stab and a underboring the marker gets fairly good efficiency and consistency. It's as air efficient as my Tiberius T8 (polished power tube).




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