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Thunder Bay Police getting hard on paintball locally


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#1 EgoPossum

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:27 PM

So as a few people on here know I work in the only paintball proshop in my home town of Thunder Bay, Ontario. Thunder Bay is located roughly about an hour away from the Minnesota/Canada border.

For the last while we have been noticing alot of crack downs on replica firearms and airsoft guns. One of the principals at one of the local high schools got busted trying to import some airsoft guns that were very close to the firearms that are on the prohibited firearms list (Canada is funny like this)
Paintball it seems is now having some issues right now. The field that is closest to town was raided by the police, the owner had some gear seized, told that he could have been charged under an anti-terrorism act for all the "replica firearms" that he had at the field for sale and could have been arrested on the spot. They did leave the rental markers (Custom 98, BT-4, A-5).
We got in contact with the other field in town and with our suppliers to see what is going on and get the word out.

Our store was just visited by one of the head guys for the officers for the guns and gangs unit. He asked alot of questions regarding the FPS that these shoot at, rate of fire, but was really interested in the ones that look like real firearms (TM-15, TM-7, BT Omega, Tippmann Bravo One, Tiberius T8.1/9.1, Tippmann TiPX, GOG G1, BT Delta Elite, Tippmann X-7 Phenom). He is going to the Crown Attorney about what he finds and is going to inform us of their decision on if it is "legal" to sell paintball markers or at least the ones that look like the real thing locally.
He was a nice guy and didn't know alot regarding paintball and I know with regards to our firearms codes in Canada that it is up to to officer in question on how to interpret the firearms code that these fall under.

Here is where I ask for a hand from TechPB:
I need help here. I like my job and I am willing to fight for it.
Without paintball at our store, we would have closed about 6 years ago. Paintball has been good to me for the last few years and this would be a major blow to the Thunder Bay paintball community.
If there is anyone that can give us a hand or information that can help us, please comment below or PM me

Edited by EgoPossum, 02 December 2011 - 04:28 PM.

"I shoot pump because it hurts more feelings." -- ryantuomi (heard at Living Legends 2)
"Pumping is about as much a disadvantage for me as shifting is for a Nascar driver" - good buddy of mine said this when we were talking about going against the local tourney team
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#2 Mark.c

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:31 PM

If you start a petition, i would sign it. Honestly, other than that, i don't think there is anything you can do.

#3 EgoPossum

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:45 PM

thanks for the offer.

If I have to I will get a petition ready for people to sign both in the shop, local fields, and online
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#4 Mark.c

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:48 PM

I know there really strict about sims in Ontario, both my parents are police officers. The next time i see them, i will ask what you could do, maybe that could help a bit.

#5 kiriyama9000

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:25 PM

Invite the police to play for a day!
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#6 Jordii

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:48 AM

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On a more serious note, Canada really sucks for these kind of things. Like mentioned above, a petition is likely the only thing to make an impact, but what are you exactly concerned about? It's highly unlikely they'll just say "You can't sell paintball markers", but the chances they'll stop the sale of milsim markers is more reasonable. Still, at least where I'm from, milsim markers make only a fraction of what the speedball markers bring in.
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#7 canscom

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:59 AM

Is Thunder bay RCMP or local Law Enforcment
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#8 EgoPossum

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:54 AM

Is Thunder bay RCMP or local Law Enforcment


They are local law enforcement.

Update on what is going on:
What the Guns and Gangs officer's issue was is that markers like the TM-15, Delta Elite and Bravo One are "close enough" to the real thing (even though they are not the 1to1 replica that the firearms code classifies as a replica) that if one was pointed at someone they would think that it is a real firearm.
If the person was an officer, they would respond with deadly force. Now I do not blame any police officer that has a paintball gun pointed at them for shooting the person.
He wants to take this to a national level and is getting in contact with the RCMP regarding this.
When we asked him about what he was going to do about Walmart and Canadian Tire selling Airsoft and Milsim markers, he replied that because they sell nationally that he wasn't going to go after them *sigh*

We talked to one of the distributors about this and they helping us look into some avenues for ourselves to work with the police rather then against them, because when dealing with law enforcement there is no winning in the end unless you work with them and come to an understanding

We have always had an internal policy that we do not sell to anyone under 18 unless there is a parent or guardian present and we can talk to them.
What we are doing at this time is taking the shrouds and stocks off of all the offending markers and keeping them in the boxes. The customer can install them if the feel they want them on their marker.

Where we are located, speedball is not even 1% of our total paintball sales. Woodsball, milsim and recball are more prevalent here because there is so much green space around us and everyone knows someone that has a few acres of private property that you can play on.

Edited by EgoPossum, 03 December 2011 - 11:10 AM.

"I shoot pump because it hurts more feelings." -- ryantuomi (heard at Living Legends 2)
"Pumping is about as much a disadvantage for me as shifting is for a Nascar driver" - good buddy of mine said this when we were talking about going against the local tourney team
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#9 CdTriX

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:45 AM

afaik if you have a firearms license at the shop, they they are allowed to sell paintball guns that are mil-sim variety as well as RAP4 markers. I know the proshop at my field has a license to sell those types or markers. but no one else is allowed.

They have to follow the firearms act and i didn't think it was at the discretion of local law enforcement because it's a federal law.

http://laws-lois.jus...ng/acts/F-11.6/

There is the firearms act in full i believe.

Here's some information that might help you. from RCMP website: http://www.rcmp-grc....eplique-eng.htm

Possessing or Acquiring Replica Firearms
As an individual, you may keep any replicas that you owned on December 1, 1998. You do not need a licence to possess a replica firearm and it does not have to be registered. However, you cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm. If you take a replica firearm out of Canada, you cannot bring it back in.

If you are a business, you may possess, acquire or import replica firearms only if you have a valid Firearms Business Licence that allows you to possess prohibited device for anapproved purpose.



From the criminal code: http://laws-lois.jus...ge-39.html#h-37

Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms
(3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:

  • (a) any antique firearm;
  • (b) any device that is
    • (i) designed exclusively for signalling, for notifying of distress, for firing blank cartridges or for firing stud cartridges, explosive-driven rivets or other industrial projectiles, and
    • (ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed;
  • (c) any shooting device that is
    • (i) designed exclusively for the slaughtering of domestic animals, the tranquillizing of animals or the discharging of projectiles with lines attached to them, and
    • (ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed; and
  • (d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
    • (i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or
    • (ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.
The last part of the criminal code does not classify paintball markers as a firearm because the muzzle velocity does not exceed 152.4 meters per second (500 foot per second) and i don't think paintballs hold together at 500fps. I could be wrong about paintballs handling 500fps though.

Therefore it is not considered a firearm according to the criminal code of canada.

Here's some of the RCMP's interpretation of airguns and it may relate to paintball markers as well. http://www.rcmp-grc....rme_air-eng.htm

Edited by CdTriX, 03 December 2011 - 12:01 PM.


#10 XxLOPERSxX

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:06 PM


Is Thunder bay RCMP or local Law Enforcment


They are local law enforcement.

Update on what is going on:
What the Guns and Gangs officer's issue was is that markers like the TM-15, Delta Elite and Bravo One are "close enough" to the real thing (even though they are not the 1to1 replica that the firearms code classifies as a replica) that if one was pointed at someone they would think that it is a real firearm.
If the person was an officer, they would respond with deadly force. Now I do not blame any police officer that has a paintball gun pointed at them for shooting the person.
He wants to take this to a national level and is getting in contact with the RCMP regarding this.
When we asked him about what he was going to do about Walmart and Canadian Tire selling Airsoft and Milsim markers, he replied that because they sell nationally that he wasn't going to go after them *sigh*

We talked to one of the distributors about this and they helping us look into some avenues for ourselves to work with the police rather then against them, because when dealing with law enforcement there is no winning in the end unless you work with them and come to an understanding

We have always had an internal policy that we do not sell to anyone under 18 unless there is a parent or guardian present and we can talk to them.
What we are doing at this time is taking the shrouds and stocks off of all the offending markers and keeping them in the boxes. The customer can install them if the feel they want them on their marker.

Where we are located, speedball is not even 1% of our total paintball sales. Woodsball, milsim and recball are more prevalent here because there is so much green space around us and everyone knows someone that has a few acres of private property that you can play on.

The fact that this guy is going after paintball markers because of their "realism" and not airsoft guns is ridiculous. The shroud and stock idea is a really good one though.
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#11 CdTriX

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:11 PM



Is Thunder bay RCMP or local Law Enforcment


They are local law enforcement.

Update on what is going on:
What the Guns and Gangs officer's issue was is that markers like the TM-15, Delta Elite and Bravo One are "close enough" to the real thing (even though they are not the 1to1 replica that the firearms code classifies as a replica) that if one was pointed at someone they would think that it is a real firearm.
If the person was an officer, they would respond with deadly force. Now I do not blame any police officer that has a paintball gun pointed at them for shooting the person.
He wants to take this to a national level and is getting in contact with the RCMP regarding this.
When we asked him about what he was going to do about Walmart and Canadian Tire selling Airsoft and Milsim markers, he replied that because they sell nationally that he wasn't going to go after them *sigh*

We talked to one of the distributors about this and they helping us look into some avenues for ourselves to work with the police rather then against them, because when dealing with law enforcement there is no winning in the end unless you work with them and come to an understanding

We have always had an internal policy that we do not sell to anyone under 18 unless there is a parent or guardian present and we can talk to them.
What we are doing at this time is taking the shrouds and stocks off of all the offending markers and keeping them in the boxes. The customer can install them if the feel they want them on their marker.

Where we are located, speedball is not even 1% of our total paintball sales. Woodsball, milsim and recball are more prevalent here because there is so much green space around us and everyone knows someone that has a few acres of private property that you can play on.

The fact that this guy is going after paintball markers because of their "realism" and not airsoft guns is ridiculous. The shroud and stock idea is a really good one though.


all the store needs to do is get a valid firearms business license and all of this is not a problem anymore.

#12 aj619

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

First get a print out of the criminal code for firearms next go down to your local police station and talk to someone in charge

Tell them what's been going on and tell them that they are only going after small stores and if they have any idea why this is happening also mention the criminal code of 500 FPS and 5.7 joules requirement for it to be considered a firearm
Then your going to want to get yourself a lawyer that has dealt with cases like this
After that try to get the community involved




Also this is only at a local level I would suggest talking to your mayor
And I own quite a few replica fire arms I don't see why there worried about paintball guns when I could probably get a real gun illegally a lot easier they really need to get there priority's straight

Edited by aj619, 03 December 2011 - 01:20 PM.

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#13 -ORaNGe-

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:28 PM

If you can get me the officer's number and extension whose handling it I can call him up and answer some questions for him. I'm Air Force and in my late twenties so odds are he'd be willing to take me seriously.

#14 EgoPossum

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:43 PM

If you can get me the officer's number and extension whose handling it I can call him up and answer some questions for him. I'm Air Force and in my late twenties so odds are he'd be willing to take me seriously.


Thanks for the offer. They don't seem to take the tattooed, bald paintball tech (that is a wealth of general knowledge) or the early 20's manager in charge of paintball for all the stores too seriously.

I will get you that info when I am at the shop on Monday
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#15 CdTriX

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:41 PM

It could be local cops being bored out of their skulls looking for something to do.

Canada doesn't have a lot of gun related crime. A few armed bank robberies, some homicides, but it's not like it's some huge crime spike because of paintball markers.

It's not like we're riding our bikes down the road with a bravo one slung across our back pretending to be gangsters or terrorists. I personally don't know anyone that owns a gun but that's because I'm city folk. I believe there are more real guns out there then paintball markers. Rifles, shotguns, and air guns for hunting and sports shooting.

#16 Funk21

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:49 PM


Is Thunder bay RCMP or local Law Enforcment


They are local law enforcement.

Update on what is going on:
What the Guns and Gangs officer's issue was is that markers like the TM-15, Delta Elite and Bravo One are "close enough" to the real thing (even though they are not the 1to1 replica that the firearms code classifies as a replica) that if one was pointed at someone they would think that it is a real firearm.
If the person was an officer, they would respond with deadly force. Now I do not blame any police officer that has a paintball gun pointed at them for shooting the person.
He wants to take this to a national level and is getting in contact with the RCMP regarding this.
When we asked him about what he was going to do about Walmart and Canadian Tire selling Airsoft and Milsim markers, he replied that because they sell nationally that he wasn't going to go after them *sigh*

We talked to one of the distributors about this and they helping us look into some avenues for ourselves to work with the police rather then against them, because when dealing with law enforcement there is no winning in the end unless you work with them and come to an understanding

Sounds like he's trying to be super cop and wasting tax payers money(sounds like he wants a promotion or to make a name for himself). If he was so set on preventing an innocent person getting shot by a cop because they have a milsim paintball marker in their hands he would go after the Walmart's and Canadian Tire's because they are the ones who are more than likely going sell it to some idiot that thinks driving around with their buddies and shooting people is cool.

Most people who play paintball and for that matter woods ball knows the importance of safety and would never consider waving it around anywhere other than at the field. Go to the council meetings, get a petition going and make a video message from the players at your local field showcasing the strict safety rules and great sportsmanship that this sport brings out in it's players. Lastly go to the local RCMP / police division to keep the dialog open. I feel for you and my fingers are crossed for ya.

Funk21

We have always had an internal policy that we do not sell to anyone under 18 unless there is a parent or guardian present and we can talk to them.
What we are doing at this time is taking the shrouds and stocks off of all the offending markers and keeping them in the boxes. The customer can install them if the feel they want them on their marker.

Where we are located, speedball is not even 1% of our total paintball sales. Woodsball, milsim and recball are more prevalent here because there is so much green space around us and everyone knows someone that has a few acres of private property that you can play on.


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#17 NJC

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:29 PM

sounds like the local police are being complete dicks about your problem. who is stupid enough to point a paintball marker at an officer unless they are playing paintball? honestly, the only guns that actually look milsim are pretty much RAP4 and a few select guns. and even then, as already stated before, who rides down the street with those guns strapped around their backs pretending to be terrorists? seriously, police need to think with their heads and not their asses

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#18 joeyt

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:07 AM

Police is paranoid about those kinds if things. There are a few officers that play at my field.

#19 ionpaintballlover

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 05:24 AM

that sounds like some shit that would happen here in the states
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#20 nowan4ever

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:41 AM


If you can get me the officer's number and extension whose handling it I can call him up and answer some questions for him. I'm Air Force and in my late twenties so odds are he'd be willing to take me seriously.


Thanks for the offer. They don't seem to take the tattooed, bald paintball tech (that is a wealth of general knowledge) or the early 20's manager in charge of paintball for all the stores too seriously.

I will get you that info when I am at the shop on Monday


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#21 Zorozeenee

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:19 PM

Maybe if everyone had gotten speedball markers instead of woods ball markers this shit wouldnt happen
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#22 sameagol26

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:33 PM

Bad idea... ^

Everyone has their style of play they enjoy. It's odd that the Police are suddenly going ape shit about this though.

I too am In Canada and hopefully there are no laws passed that end up cutting out the selling of markers like TM's, and all the milsim/ realistic markers. That would really hurt the sport.
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#23 illmatic

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

Bad idea... ^

Everyone has their style of play they enjoy. It's odd that the Police are suddenly going ape shit about this though.

I too am In Canada and hopefully there are no laws passed that end up cutting out the selling of markers like TM's, and all the milsim/ realistic markers. That would really hurt the sport.


I don't see them doing a province or nationwide law against the sale of milsim markers. It would effect far to many people and the companies. Around here its like a 5 to 1 ratio of milsim to speedball players. The only reason i could see them banning it locally is if there was an actual instance where a marker was used to threaten someone as an actual gun. Since we haven't heard of any story like that i don't see how any sort of law wil be passed.
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#24 worm

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:53 PM

Give the police free play for 1 day. It would train them on paintball and they would probably change their outlook. Not to mention, you may aquire new customers.

#25 PeanutWing

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:59 PM

If you think an X7 looks like a real gun, you need to get your head out of your ass.

#26 pb=life

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

If you think an X7 looks like a real gun, you need to get your head out of your ass.



#27 PB-JORD

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

dang, i live in canada too, luckily the cops dont seem to care about that kind of stuff where i live
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#28 robot0ninja

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

this sucks because canada is a heavy milsim supporter (well the paintballers are). your markers are obviously not classified are firearms or replica firearms, therefore what the cop is doing is actually illegal (maybe not illegal but he is working out of his jurisdiction). politely inform this ass hole of this, you are doing nothing illegal so he cannot legally confiscate or prohibit your markers.

#29 drexler

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:33 PM


If you think an X7 looks like a real gun, you need to get your head out of your ass.


To bad from a distance it can be mistaken as a MP5k, especially with the hopper off.

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#30 Jaccen

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

The A5 looks more like your example IMO

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#31 WhatsHisFace

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:36 PM

When we asked him about what he was going to do about Walmart and Canadian Tire selling Airsoft and Milsim markers, he replied that because they sell nationally that he wasn't going to go after them *sigh*


Because who needs small businesses, right? :dodgy:

but the chances they'll stop the sale of milsim markers is more reasonable.


Except it isn't reasonable. Milsim makes up a LARGE majority of paintball markers, and they're here to stay whether our government likes it or not. People using these things to rob banks or scare cops just doesn't happen, and even if they did, wouldn't making them illegal just make a robber decide to not to bother with them and just go right for the real deal? Anybody with half a brain knows which of the two they'd want to be stuck up with.

Goodluck with that shitshow of a situation you have going on there. If a petition gets made about the issue then I'll be happy to sign it.

#32 phillies0119

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:05 PM

I swear if this ever happens in the united states, with the liberal route we are on it wouldn't surprise me.




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