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#1 aresfiend

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 08:35 PM

So I saw something today that reminded me of a rant that's been building for years now (and yes, grass, you did remind me of it but you can learn from this).

Watercooling

It's not the fucking god solution, okay? Why you ask? Because you will get the same temps from a regular cooler that is of sufficient price for $100 less in most cases that will last longer before starting to allow heat to rise. The problem with watercooling is that if the water starts to heat up it 1) will heat up the entire water system regardless of the radiator and 2) will not cool down for a VERY long time if it heats up. Even if your processor heats up rapidly and hits dangerous levels with air cooling you can quit your task and crank your fan speed to purge your heatsink but if you're watercooling and your temps rise you're fucked because your warm water will heat the radiator up (contrary to popular belief these are room temp at the coolest when the computer is off) and then even if you shut off your computer warm water will linger around your CPU block since it is OFF and the pump will be OFF.

Point and case, don't do watercooling unless you need it to be quiet, run for a long time, or you're overclocking and putting it under heavy loads under extreme circumstances. If you buy a $120 heatsink a $120 watercooling system will not do nearly as well since it can't get negative temperatures relative to air temperature whereas you can easily drop the heatsink temp to -3 Celsius using fan cooling.

/rant

The reason this isn't in the rant section is because it's computer related and I don't want the "Cool story bro", "TL;DR", and the other associated shit in the rant section.

#2 Stix

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 08:54 PM

Amen to this post sir. Posted Image
I've been arguing with people over this for years, and honestly, I've given up. Because people will blow as much money as possible into building completely outlandish PC's nowadays.
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#3 `kook

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:21 PM

+1, aircooling ftw
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#4 Blade of grass

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:52 PM

Lol, another of a rant inspired by me :D
But isn't running water cooling with what I presented going to be better than the air cooling he was already using?
And if you think I think that water cooling is god, I know it's not, a phase change would be better, or using liquid nitrogen, or using helium.
But those are all expensive.

EDIT: and yes, I do know that water and air cooling will only run your computer at room temp at the least. Only a phase change or nitrogen or helium will run below room temp

Edited by Blade of grass, 10 March 2012 - 11:54 PM.

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#5 Stix

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:59 PM

Liquid Nitrogen or Helium are beyond expensive. They're out of reach for anybody who isn't doing research.
But at the present state, Water Cooling really doesn't offer much more than Air, maybe a 2 degree advantage at best.
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#6 aresfiend

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:02 AM

But isn't running water cooling with what I presented going to be better than the air cooling he was already using?

Remember when I said that it reminded me and not centered the rant around this? Much to learn you have, young one.

And no, what you presented is waaaay more than he needs. All he needs is a $20 heatsink off of newegg that is NOT for 1u servers.

#7 Blade of grass

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:04 AM


But isn't running water cooling with what I presented going to be better than the air cooling he was already using?

Remember when I said that it reminded me and not centered the rant around this? Much to learn you have, young one.

And no, what you presented is waaaay more than he needs. All he needs is a $20 heatsink off of newegg that is NOT for 1u servers.

Ok, I guesse I read the first part wrong.... I don't know how....

But, what I was doing, was giving him the extreme option (in his case that is actually affordable.)

As in extreme price option.

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#8 Stix

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:11 AM

At least you're learning for the future Blade. Posted Image
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#9 Blade of grass

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:13 AM

At least you're learning for the future Blade. Posted Image

What do you mean? Enlighten me please.

Edited by Blade of grass, 11 March 2012 - 12:14 AM.

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#10 aresfiend

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:17 AM

What do you mean? Enlighten me please.

He means that unless otherwise specified that you NEVER suggest watercooling over air cooling.

#11 Blade of grass

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:18 AM


What do you mean? Enlighten me please.

He means that unless otherwise specified that you NEVER suggest watercooling over air cooling.

Oh, ok, I just got confused when he said that, I was thinking, "well what am I learning? I already knew this stuff....."

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#12 Stix

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:21 AM


What do you mean? Enlighten me please.

He means that unless otherwise specified that you NEVER suggest watercooling over air cooling.


Dot. lol. I should have specified, my bad. Posted Image
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#13 TK-421

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:15 AM

Liquid Nitrogen or Helium are beyond expensive. They're out of reach for anybody who isn't doing research.
But at the present state, Water Cooling really doesn't offer much more than Air, maybe a 2 degree advantage at best.


All you need to do is know the right people. Hell, my uncle works for a government lab, and he said he'd get me all the liquid nitrogen I wanted, so long as I could get a dewar to hold it. A dewar is only like $250-300 or so, for a small one. So if you're lucky enough, and really want to, liquid nitrogen can be fairly easy to get a hold of. It's just building a rig that can withstand it, and find a way to avoid condensation on the lines.

#14 PB2011

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:30 AM

They have computers that need to be WATERCOOLED?


Holy shit...
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#15 Blade of grass

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

They have computers that need to be WATERCOOLED?


Holy shit...

They don't need to be.....
Unless you like burned expensive components :P but in all reality, you don't really need to, cause air cooling works well.

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#16 Sasquatch

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:12 AM

Point and case, don't do watercooling unless you need it to be quiet, run for a long time, or you're overclocking and putting it under heavy loads under extreme circumstances. If you buy a $120 heatsink a $120 watercooling system will not do nearly as well since it can't get negative temperatures relative to air temperature whereas you can easily drop the heatsink temp to -3 Celsius using fan cooling.


Annndddd lets stop right there. -3 C, huh? Below freezing point? Or -3 C below ambient air temp?

If this is below freezing point, I need to figure out what kind of thermal paste, heatsink, fan black magic voodoo you are doing.

I will laugh as they overwhelm our enemies in a flurry of spotted banana hammocks.

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#17 Blade of grass

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:49 AM


Point and case, don't do watercooling unless you need it to be quiet, run for a long time, or you're overclocking and putting it under heavy loads under extreme circumstances. If you buy a $120 heatsink a $120 watercooling system will not do nearly as well since it can't get negative temperatures relative to air temperature whereas you can easily drop the heatsink temp to -3 Celsius using fan cooling.


Annndddd lets stop right there. -3 C, huh? Below freezing point? Or -3 C below ambient air temp?

If this is below freezing point, I need to figure out what kind of thermal paste, heatsink, fan black magic voodoo you are doing.

Lol, I'd didnt even see that, but when you pointed it out, it made me ROFL

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#18 aresfiend

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:42 PM

Annndddd lets stop right there. -3 C, huh? Below freezing point? Or -3 C below ambient air temp?

If this is below freezing point, I need to figure out what kind of thermal paste, heatsink, fan black magic voodoo you are doing.

READ!

Point and case, don't do watercooling unless you need it to be quiet, run for a long time, or you're overclocking and putting it under heavy loads under extreme circumstances. If you buy a $120 heatsink a $120 watercooling system will not do nearly as well since it can't get negative temperatures relative to air temperature whereas you can easily drop the heatsink temp to -3 Celsius using fan cooling.



#19 Sasquatch

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

The way you have worded that sentence, it reads as if you are in fact saying that the temperature itself is -3C.

So I did read. It was you who typed what I was reading incorrectly in reference to your own expression.

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#20 the.cheese

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:05 PM

if you filtered out every single mineral in water and then just stuck the whole comp in the completely filtered water you would have pretty efficient cooling system if it is a large tub and you put ice under it


or you could just use fans

:/
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#21 aresfiend

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

if you filtered out every single mineral in water and then just stuck the whole comp in the completely filtered water you would have pretty efficient cooling system if it is a large tub and you put ice under it


or you could just use fans

:/

Sticking it in non-mineral water would be MORE conductive than mineral water and therefore would short out the computer faster than it already would.

Also, I was just saying to use fans.....

#22 TK-421

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

I say just dunk the entire thing in a huge tank of Liquid Nitrogen and call it cold enough.

#23 the.cheese

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:04 PM


if you filtered out every single mineral in water and then just stuck the whole comp in the completely filtered water you would have pretty efficient cooling system if it is a large tub and you put ice under it


or you could just use fans

:/

Sticking it in non-mineral water would be MORE conductive than mineral water and therefore would short out the computer faster than it already would.

Also, I was just saying to use fans.....


not true
the minerals in water are what stop the curcuits, therefore if you took out all the minerals it would make it cold. if its cold water. if you put a current in distilled water and salt water the current will only flow through the salt water. i did and experiment is science with that
it seems that EVERY gun these days shoots ropes, money, tits, lasers, etc....put this in your sig if yours still shoots the other team...

Why does TechPB attempt to solve all problems with shitting on stuff? Hahahaha.


#24 Blade of grass

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

Well duh since Hydrogen and oxygen (only the gas oxygen is conductive) are not conductive from my knowledge.

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#25 Latsabb

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:08 PM

not true
the minerals in water are what stop the curcuits, therefore if you took out all the minerals it would make it cold. if its cold water. if you put a current in distilled water and salt water the current will only flow through the salt water. i did and experiment is science with that


This is correct. Ever seen that Rotor durability video, where they talk about how awesome the Rotor is because you can stick it in water? Yep, that was distilled water. Try it with normal water, and that thing would fry in seconds. It is a good reason why i dont believe a word that ever comes out of Billy Wing's mouth.
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#26 TK-421

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:10 PM

Sticking it in non-mineral water would be MORE conductive than mineral water and therefore would short out the computer faster than it already would.

Also, I was just saying to use fans.....



To what extent does distilled water ionize, and what causes it to do so? I was wondering about the possibility of running an electrical system like a PC under pure distilled water. Is this feasible?


Hi, Edward. Yes you can run electrical devices submerged in very very pure water. But distilled water may not be pure enough. And as soon as you put the PC in the water, salts from soldering fluxes and other sources will start contaminating the water. You probably would need to recirculate the water through a very capable deionization system such as is used to generate ultra pure water for semiconductor fabrication to remove that salt, catching all the salts that start dissolving from the PC so you can keep the water pure enough to not conduct. This is the theory, but it's probably a dangerous and impractical experiment for a student.


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