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Poll: There is some debate over whether players would prefer to have red/blue ribbons on their mask to disgnate whether they are Horde or New Empire, and a strip of tape on their arm to designate what unit they are...or whether they would prefer red or blue tap (67 member(s) have cast votes)

How would you like to see ID tape worn?

  1. Voted 2" red or blue duct tape on one arm with 12 inch long strips of 1" duct tape attached to goggle strap above each ear for unit . (32 votes [47.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 47.76%

  2. Voted 12" strips of red or blue survey tape attached to goggle strap above each ear with a strip of 1" wide duct tape on the arm for unit. (16 votes [23.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.88%

  3. Voted Either way is fine with me (19 votes [28.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.36%

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#1 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

Last year's format seemed very successful with the exception of the confusion caused by having both side and unit (gang) colors on the arms. There was a lot of discussion on this earlier and it was established that we would have red or blue survey tape on the goggle straps and gang (unit) color on the arm. However there has been more discussion on the subject as of late, so I wanted to get your opinions. If there are enough votes I will likely go with whatever the popular opinion is. However, if there are not enough votes for me to feel confident that it represents "the masses" I may choose a different route. SO vote away.

Lots of players have stated that one of the things that makes Living Legends so great is our willingness to listen to the players. This is another attempt to do just that, so please help us out and let us know what you think. :tup:
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#2 Mandoade

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:46 AM

It doesn't matter as much about squad so that identifier doesn't have to be as bold but what team your on needs to stand out boldly with those 2" strips.

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#3 paintchucker

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:56 AM

personally arm team identifiers with a small ( just enough to tie around your head strap) unit marker would be preferred

#4 MZinCamo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:27 AM

Most people don't identify by unit, I'd prefer to have the arm tape for team and head tape for unit.

I think that way if you accidentally lose the unit tape you are all good.

#5 TechPB-Willie

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:48 AM

Viper,

You are always trying to be ahead of the game. Great call for this.

Looking forward to an exciting LLV.

P.S. I voted also.

#6 sameagol26

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:26 AM

I chose the first answer.
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#7 H all day

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:41 AM

me too
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#8 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:04 AM

personally arm team identifiers with a small ( just enough to tie around your head strap) unit marker would be preferred

Official Rules for Living Legends

Skirmish:
Your commander will have a schedule that will list specific times that particular units are to capture specific territories. A large force, the majority of which must be members of the designated unit, must capture the prescribed territory during the prescribed interval. If you have too many players in the skirmish who are not members of the requisite unit your side will forfeit the skirmish. If their skirmish is successful your side will receive 25 points.

As the referees must be able to look at a 100 vs 100 battle and easily discern whether the majority of the players are members of the two squads that are supposed to be there, as well as seeing if any players, and how many, or NOT members of those squads, the squad tape will need to be easy to see. A small loop of it will not accomplish this.

Edited by Viper Scenarios, 15 March 2012 - 10:07 AM.

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#9 The_Economist

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

I like making the side tape as visible as possible. I hate not being able to tell if a player is friend or foe. Side tape on the head makes it more clear and less easily hidden than tape on the arm.


#10 p8ntballin007

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

What about 2" team identifier on both arms, and then 1" unit identifier on left arm only? I know there was confusion last year, but I know that Duct tape comes in tons of different colors. Red Team should get red based colors (orange, pink...) and Blue team should get blue based colors (purple, green...) that way its all armbands. Personally I hate having stuff attached to my mask (goggle cam is annoying as is). Duct tape makes a nice chrome finish that could be used for the team commanders.



#11 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

I'm afraid the overwhelming opinion was that having both tape on arms, in any way, is a mistake. I am man enough to accept that criticism and do something different. I think if I announced that we were putting both tapes on arms, in any way, people would hunt me down and beat me. ;)
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#12 p8ntballin007

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:52 AM

Understood. How about this than, Team tape on both arms, and 12" unit strip on the back of the goggles.

The arm tape is the important part to the players and having it on both arms makes leftys and rightys equal as well as makes the teams redily identifiable.

The Unit tape is really mostly important to the refs. I'm not going to care what color the other team has on their goggles as long as they have the apposing arm band color, they get painted.



That way the team is easily identified by the players and the unit is easily identified by the refs. Plus if I'm coming back onto the feild and need to find my unit, I'll be viewing my teammates from the back (hopefully) and then I can easily pick out my unit.


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#13 Irish725

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

I'd rather see the team identifier on the head, as that is often what one sees when facing an opponent or friendly. Their arms could be hidden, or covered up, but there is no mistaking (unless something crazy happens) for team side. It'll prevent friendly fire, I consider the unit tape to be secondary to what tema you are on. If I can't see you are on the Red Team clearly as you approach? Expect to get tagged.

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#14 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:20 AM

Understood. How about this than, Team tape on both arms, and 12" unit strip on the back of the goggles.


Please see my previous reply...

As the referees must be able to look at a 100 vs 100 battle and easily discern whether the majority of the players are members of the two squads that are supposed to be there, as well as seeing if any players, and how many, or NOT members of those squads, the squad tape will need to be easy to see. A small loop of it will not accomplish this.

If it is only on the back the refs, who are also trying to be in the thick of things and do paintchecks and such, would have to run around behind every player to verify their squad. This just isn't practical.

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Well, you're doing it anyway. (Just kidding) :P
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#15 UV Halo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:43 AM

I'd rather see the team identifier on the head, as that is often what one sees when facing an opponent or friendly. Their arms could be hidden, or covered up, but there is no mistaking (unless something crazy happens) for team side. It'll prevent friendly fire, I consider the unit tape to be secondary to what tema you are on. If I can't see you are on the Red Team clearly as you approach? Expect to get tagged.


I like making the side tape as visible as possible. I hate not being able to tell if a player is friend or foe. Side tape on the head makes it more clear and less easily hidden than tape on the arm.


I understand the value of positive identification but, what does it do for those on your team who may need to hide (while setting an ambush)? Bright team tape (that you must always display) up on the goggles will pretty much prevent them from hiding.

Edited by UV Halo, 15 March 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#16 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

90% of effective camouflage is choosing the right spot and sitting as still as possible. ;)
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#17 UV Halo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

90% of effective camouflage is choosing the right spot and sitting as still as possible. ;)


But, that remaining 10% can be crucial for seeing your target before he sees you (and when shooting FS rounds out of an 8-shot mag, you really don't want to get into a firefight). I'd rather not get into a discussion of the different aspects of camo anyways.

I just want to remind folks to not just think how the rule impacts them personally but, how it may impact other players on their own team.

#18 Irish725

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:10 PM

Exactly. I understand your concern UV, and its legitmate, but its also a small number of people that play that playstyle compared to the rest of the players who are constantly moving and grooving. It's a matter of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", and I am sorry to say, but I think the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

If you have a squad that gets ripped up by friendly fire (its happened in other games), that was on its way to complete a mission it had been assigned, that is a greater loss then if a single player with a complex ghillie suit gets tagged because he was trying to be sneaky.

Besides, if you are good at camoflauge, you'll know its a lot about breaking up your outline, rather then covering yourself head to toe in false concealment. You can be just as hidden with an OD green shirt and a pair of green MARPAT pants, and boots, then a full ghillie suit, as long as you are patient and disciplined enough not to move, and when you do have to move, to do it slowly.

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#19 UV Halo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:22 PM

Exactly. I understand your concern UV, and its legitmate, but its also a small number of people that play that playstyle compared to the rest of the players who are constantly moving and grooving. It's a matter of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", and I am sorry to say, but I think the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

If you have a squad that gets ripped up by friendly fire (its happened in other games), that was on its way to complete a mission it had been assigned, that is a greater loss then if a single player with a complex ghillie suit gets tagged because he was trying to be sneaky.

Besides, if you are good at camoflauge, you'll know its a lot about breaking up your outline, rather then covering yourself head to toe in false concealment. You can be just as hidden with an OD green shirt and a pair of green MARPAT pants, and boots, then a full ghillie suit, as long as you are patient and disciplined enough not to move, and when you do have to move, to do it slowly.


I see that you gave it consideration and that's all that I could ask for, thanks!

#20 Irish725

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:33 PM

As for "effecitng other players on my team", I am, I am thinking of the 90% of the players that would probably see it from my point of view. Instead of the 10% who might complain about it, but would likely find ways around it..

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#21 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:36 PM

As for "effecitng other players on my team", I am, I am thinking of the 90% of the players that would probably see it from my point of view. Instead of the 10% who might complain about it, but would likely find ways around it..

I'm afraid this has been my outlook all along. It simply has to be when producing thousand-player events.

Edited by Viper Scenarios, 15 March 2012 - 12:37 PM.

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#22 andrewthewookie

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:55 PM

I vote for team colors on the head. To me, it just makes more sense with the sheer number of people who are going to be playing. IMO, being able to quickly and easily identify what team someone's on would be the best option. I haven't gone into the rules yet, but is team tape mandatory, as long as you've got all your player cards/info/whatever? Those people who don't want bright colors everywhere could forgo the head tape at their own risk.

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#23 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:02 PM

ID tape is mandatory at Living Legends
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#24 Irish725

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:09 PM


Exactly. I understand your concern UV, and its legitmate, but its also a small number of people that play that playstyle compared to the rest of the players who are constantly moving and grooving. It's a matter of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", and I am sorry to say, but I think the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

If you have a squad that gets ripped up by friendly fire (its happened in other games), that was on its way to complete a mission it had been assigned, that is a greater loss then if a single player with a complex ghillie suit gets tagged because he was trying to be sneaky.

Besides, if you are good at camoflauge, you'll know its a lot about breaking up your outline, rather then covering yourself head to toe in false concealment. You can be just as hidden with an OD green shirt and a pair of green MARPAT pants, and boots, then a full ghillie suit, as long as you are patient and disciplined enough not to move, and when you do have to move, to do it slowly.


I see that you gave it consideration and that's all that I could ask for, thanks!


Good to go man, sorry about my post after yours lol, my internet is slow and sutpid and hadn't shown that you had posted again. I understand your concern, and with that awesome get up, it'd be a shame not to get it to put it to use.

And know now, I will be on the look out for any moving bushes, just to be on the safe side ;).

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#25 p8ntballin007

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

I'm not exactly a surveyor, but are there enough colors of survey tape made that each unit will have a distinct color? Just to keep away from having a New Empire Unit and a Horde Unit from using the same color, but different team tape color. You would need 12 to keep any confusion at bay.



#26 InvertMinifan

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:38 PM

personally just a colored thing on the goggle strap would work. I'm used to that and the armband could have a chance of falling off during play.
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#27 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:46 PM

I'm not exactly a surveyor, but are there enough colors of survey tape made that each unit will have a distinct color? Just to keep away from having a New Empire Unit and a Horde Unit from using the same color, but different team tape color. You would need 12 to keep any confusion at bay.

You are correct. There aren't that many colors of survey tape to my knowledge. We would need red and blue PLUS ten squad colors.

We aren't using survey tape for squad colors. It will be 1" fabric duct tape folded over and stuck to itself. This will prevent loss. My biggest issue with survey tape is that it folds up and gets hard to see when tied around an arm, and that it can get torn off easily.

Edit: Much to my surprise a quick Google search resulted in fifty-four colors. LOL

http://www.tapebroth...CFUgaQgodPSXQMQ

Edited by Viper Scenarios, 15 March 2012 - 01:51 PM.

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#28 Teek

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

Last year's format seemed very successful with the exception of the confusion caused by having both side and unit (gang) colors on the arms. There was a lot of discussion on this earlier and it was established that we would have red or blue survey tape on the goggle straps and gang (unit) color on the arm. However there has been more discussion on the subject as of late, so I wanted to get your opinions. If there are enough votes I will likely go with whatever the popular opinion is. However, if there are not enough votes for me to feel confident that it represents "the masses" I may choose a different route. SO vote away.

Lots of players have stated that one of the things that makes Living Legends so great is our willingness to listen to the players. This is another attempt to do just that, so please help us out and let us know what you think. :tup:


Viper, could you possibly provide a visual example of what you're going for with the goggle strap tape? It sounds promising, but I'd really like to see it just to make sure I and possibly others are on the same page as you.
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#29 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

This would be a member of the yellow squad. They would have red or blue on his arm.

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If we went the other way this would be red or blue tape, and the yellow would be on their arm.

Edited by Viper Scenarios, 15 March 2012 - 02:29 PM.

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#30 p8ntballin007

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:12 PM

I like the idea of Team Color on the mask of all the choices, but I can see that getting confused pretty easily if people have a Red or Blue Mask. From a distance it might look like either a red or blue tape.



#31 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:17 PM

As I've tried to point out...there is not one answer that will please/fit everyone. Not with over a thousand players. If you are looking for the perfect solution that will fit every player and every style good luck...I've tried to find those answers for years. That fact that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time never stops me from trying. However I will admit that I did bang my head against the wall for years thinking I could before I learned to just be reasonable and accept that I was going to have to settle for the best answer most of the time due to the fact that there is rarely a "perfect" one.
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#32 US_Army_Guy

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

This would be a member of the yellow squad. They would have red or blue on his arm.

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If we went the other way this would be red or blue tape, and the yellow would be on their arm.




:tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:

Edited by US_Army_Guy, 15 March 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#33 Jarz

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

I like the idea of having my team's tape on my arm, then my squad's color on my mask (first option). I can easily identify squad mates, ans well as team members.
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#34 MZinCamo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:25 PM

As long as the tape doesn't get in the way of my Contour HD, I'm happy.

#35 IhasAcellular

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:57 PM

No option that doesnt include anything on my mask?


Why not just run red/blue tape on the right arm...and some vibrant color representing squad on your left?

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#36 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

We tried that last year. It was a failure. EVERYONE said it was a failure.

Tape on the head was a VERY popular solution with EVERYONE that discussed it with me online and in person, at the event and afterward.

So the above options are the options available, and I am trying to get opinions on which of the available options everyone feels is best.
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#37 H all day

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:27 PM

i think that the team on the arm is good because i personaly dont care what squad the people are around me are i care what team they are on
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#38 p8ntballin007

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:51 PM

Ok so either way it looks like something is going on my mask. And after seeing that sample picture I'm not too worried.

However, I think either way it goes down I think the team marker should be on both sides. Last year my self and one of the Tippinators were working our way through the woods and came across a few guys all three were I front of us and looking to the right. We couldn't see their left arms at all. Turns out they were friendly's but we could have easily taken out our own guys. So weather its mask or arms, team should be marked on both sides.



#39 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:33 PM

I would say the team tape is the most important so have it on the head. If you spot a player it's almost always head movement first. You should generally know where your squad is fighting around so it shouldn't be that hard to find them once you have the whole team issue sorted out.

#40 jake t

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:35 PM

Understood. How about this than, Team tape on both arms, and 12" unit strip on the back of the goggles.

The arm tape is the important part to the players and having it on both arms makes leftys and rightys equal as well as makes the teams redily identifiable.

The Unit tape is really mostly important to the refs. I'm not going to care what color the other team has on their goggles as long as they have the apposing arm band color, they get painted.



That way the team is easily identified by the players and the unit is easily identified by the refs. Plus if I'm coming back onto the feild and need to find my unit, I'll be viewing my teammates from the back (hopefully) and then I can easily pick out my unit.


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i agree, i feel that makes the most sense.

#41 Byrdshit

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:59 PM

I like the tape on the mask, Most of the games I have played, you needed a strip on the front of your mask and on the back strap, I played my first game at LCP a few months ago and it was the first time I've been at a game with the arm tape, and I had a much harder time determining who was who. (team tape on mask so you can see who the enemy is, and squad tape on arm.)

Edited by Byrdshit, 16 March 2012 - 12:01 PM.


#42 Viper Scenarios

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:09 PM

Please take the time to read carefully. There will be tape on the mask AND the arm. I just need to know which one players would prefer to have where.
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#43 EgoPossum

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:19 AM

I like the idea of the squad tape on the mask and the team tape on the arms.
Seems to work better in my mind
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#44 p8ntballin007

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:56 AM

I'm with Cheevo on this. Head movement is usually what you notice first. So teams on head (that way its on both sides of the head too) and unit on armS.



#45 Shortbuscrew

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:15 AM

as i said on other forums viper,

tape 3 inches wide, on both arms, and both thighs of the legs and a X shape on the hopper. Anyone caught w/out arm band properly displayed be removed from the game or sent back to replace.

Also, maybe a velcro arm bands sold in pairs, for a thing for players to take back home, with a LL5 patch, maybe put BORGS symbol on it?

I'm with Cheevo on this. Head movement is usually what you notice first. So teams on head (that way its on both sides of the head too) and unit on armS.


Flapping tape gets in the way and especially if wearing a goggle camera.. it will block the vision sometimes. Legs and arms, and hopper are EXCELLENT way to establish if somebody is friend or foe.
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#46 p8ntballin007

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:26 AM

Flapping tape gets in the way and especially if wearing a goggle camera.. it will block the vision sometimes. Legs and arms, and hopper are EXCELLENT way to establish if somebody is friend or foe.


That was one of my initial worries as well, however from Viper's picture I can't see it being that big of an issue. And while I agree that any banding should be ambidexterous, legs seams a bit excessive.

This would be a member of the yellow squad. They would have red or blue on his arm.

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If we went the other way this would be red or blue tape, and the yellow would be on their arm.




#47 DaveCilio

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

IMO: Out of the two options provided... I'd rather see arm-band tape indicate the side (New Empire or Horde) and head tape indicate unit. I believe it will be easier for the refs to identify, when counting # of players from a specific unit, where the "majority" are from.

Tape, on both sides of the head, will be easier to see from multiple direction... they are less likely to be blocked by anything and also easier to see because of the height at which they are worn on the body.

Edited by DaveCilio, 16 March 2012 - 11:00 AM.


#48 Jarz

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

I still stand with team tape on arm, and squad tape on head. Look at it as an enemy. Will you see the back of your opponent's head? Hardly, and I wouldn't care if my enemy's squad tape was there. I like being able to see if they are friend or foe just by their arm.
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#49 robot0ninja

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:40 AM

i know you said there will be tape on the arm and mask, but tape on the mask is the most obnoxious thing especially for those with goggle cameras. nobody wants tape flapping around in their face

#50 Jarz

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

i know you said there will be tape on the arm and mask, but tape on the mask is the most obnoxious thing especially for those with goggle cameras. nobody wants tape flapping around in their face

I don't think that the tape way behind there would be a huge issue. Besides, I think goggle cam wearers cou,d find a way to weave their mask tape so it doesn't flap that much.
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