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Response to Mike on the decline in paintball


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#1 1LSWON

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:44 PM

Mike,
I'm not new to paintball: However, I've just gotten back into the sport for the first time since 1998 when I was in 8th grade. I have to say you are right things have changed! I got with my friends a few from back then and a few from post college and I bought everyone all new guns. I bought 2 luxe 2.0s, 2 geo 2.1s, and 2 ego 11s, and 5 of those tippmann propane markers off of eBay just for kicks. Now that being said yes we are using ramping at the local field; however when we play at my ranch it's semi only. Why, for the same reasons you stated showing up to a business meeting wearing long sleeves in Texas because of being shot by people with ramping with poor trigger control. It's pretty sad my gf went out with us one time using a rental with HPA and she was eaten alive and will never play again. I wish there was league play with semi only, because before I bought all my buddies the hot-rodded gun and they only played with rentals they said they would never play again. Putting rentals or any other semi gun vs players using ramping does scare people away from the sport. Perfect example was my girl friend using a tippmann 98 got bunkered she shot the other player out, but he still got 12 hits on her neck and chest with one tigger pull before his arm went up. Needless to say she will only be back at the field in the future to support me.

New players first experience with paintball will most likly be with a rental and I've got to say if that was my only experience I wouldn't come back again either. Paintball needs new players at our local field the avg age is probably 28, and I've seen only a few return after a crotch stomping when all they had was a tippmann 98 Vs everyone else with ramping.


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#2 Schuppert3

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:56 PM

Welcome to techpb man. Ramping vs semi threads always turn into giant flame wars so i hope you dont base what this thread turns out to be off techpb. I will simply say this because im tired of hearing this topic, its not the firing mode its the player. If i want to shoot somebody 20 times i can do it in semi and i can do it in ramping.

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#3 Symptomz

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:50 AM

welcome to techpb!

Again like schuppert said. the firing mode of the gun isn't what's killing this sport. It's the simple fact that people don't have any trigger control. I can shoot 15bps in semi, and i can shoot 15bps in ramping. It all depends who's controlling the gun.

Nice guns btw :tup:

#4 NJC

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:08 AM

if i play 12.5 bps ramping, it will be hard to one finger, but if i wanted, i could shoot a guy 20 times
if i play uncapped semi (15-18ps) i can still shoot you just as many times as i want. as said before, its the player

I split my vote, half for etekgirl's body, half for her mind, because I respect a woman's mind just as much as her cans.
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#5 TK-421

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:15 AM

Agreed, ramping isn't killing our sport in any way, it's people with no trigger control, who just try to pull it as fast as they can for as long as they can. If people were respectful when they played, and tried to play fair and considerate, and learned trigger control, then stuff like what you describe wouldn't be happening. It doesn't matter whether they're using semi or ramping, poor trigger control is purely the fault of the player, not the marker. Teach people better trigger control, don't blame the marker or the firing mode.

#6 andrewthewookie

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:18 AM

From my experience, 10 paintballs in a stream look the same whether the person shooting was using ramping or in semi. It's about people losing their shit as soon as they step on the field thinking they're Rambo and emptying their hoppers at everything that moves. Trigger control, field discipline, and common courtesy are in short supply on the paintball field.

Edited by andrewthewookie, 10 April 2012 - 02:18 AM.

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#7 sk1tzi420

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:36 AM

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you guys. If someone it's in semi, as soon as they stop pulling they so shooting. Not so with ramping, if they come to bunker some one, and they pull the trigger three times in semi, they shoot three times, with ramping, it's thirteen.

All in all I think it's a little of both. Most of the fields I play on are semi only, and it's not pretty if your caught ramping. I think that is a more realistic endeavor-an industry wide semi only on the field, unless of course EVERY one wants to ramp in individual games, and if you can't change your mode, to bad, learn to walk.

Edited by sk1tzi420, 10 April 2012 - 02:40 AM.


#8 Latsabb

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:40 AM

Err... 3 pulls in ramping is 13 balls? No it isnt. Even in PSP three shot, it would be 9 balls, and if I pull the trigger three times quickly in PSP three shot, it might still only shoot three times, possibly six. You would need to be pulling that trigger very slowly to get all 9, because it doesnt buffer trigger pulls.
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#9 sk1tzi420

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:43 AM

Sorry, I fucked up on the specific numbers (not on purpose), but you have to understand where outsiders are coming from.

#10 Latsabb

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:00 AM

Sorry, I fucked up on the specific numbers (not on purpose), but you have to understand where outsiders are coming from.


I get it. But the problem actually isnt with ramping. When I play woodsball, nearly everyone is shooting semi, because they dont have an electronic marker. Their BPS is fairly low, and yet I still manage to get overshot like crazy. When I play on the speedball course, even against renters, I still manage to get overshot at times, even though it is in semi. However, everyone but the mech users are ramping, and I typically play against other people that ramp. The issue is with overshooting, and lack of trigger control. These problems come from lack of control by the refs/field owners.

When I moved from the woods to speedball, I just looked at everyone shooting like crazy, and I thought "man, I am going to get lit up bad. I am going to go home with 40 bruises tonight." But that wasnt the case. The people that play at my field have great trigger control, and they respond well to people that are out. We dont even have a dead box! I can stand right out in the open, waiting to get pegged by someone that is snap shooting. And yet it rarely happens. Hell, I play reball mostly, where you cant even see the hits. And you know what? I rarely take more than a ball or two. On Sunday, a guy in the snake took me completely off guard, and I took four balls to the side. It was a shock, because that rarely happens. He apologized profusely after the match, and said he came up shooting, and didnt expect to line up the shot that fast.

On two occasions have I been "lit up." Once was about 6 hits, and the other 7. Both times were when I was walking off after being hit, and it was because I went behind someone getting shot at, and walked into a lane. So ramping is not an issue. Trigger control is the issue. When I see someone pop up, aim at me (when I am out) and then pull back into the bunker without shooting, my respect for them goes up. This is a split second decision game, but trigger control is a skill that no one seems to learn anymore.
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#11 sk1tzi420

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:24 AM

I agree. some of it also has to do with awareness.

Last time I played, I got shot it more by my own team more than the other. One guy sour me in the chest five times when we were playing attack and defend, because he right I came OUT of the castle and his out in the open. He apologized, but he was a little trigger happy, and, in line with your point, should have had control.

#12 NJC

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:47 AM

you also must realize, you may always say "that asshole kid" but realize they (we) are jumpy and nervous and psyched out already. we normally (speaking for most teens i know) shoot first ask later because we are so nervous and psyched out we just shoot anything that moves. we want to be nice but our nerves can get the better of us

I split my vote, half for etekgirl's body, half for her mind, because I respect a woman's mind just as much as her cans.
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#13 sk1tzi420

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:59 AM

Then you need to burn one before going on the field.lmao

But seriously, realize what youre doing before you pull the trigger.

#14 NJC

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:12 AM

Then you need to burn one before going on the field.lmao

But seriously, realize what youre doing before you pull the trigger.


let me give you an example of why i am so jumpy on the field. i can't see over some bunkers. if all i see is a mask, bet your ass im shooting. i am pretty good when there is a gun or hand in the air or the person is clearly out. but say i look cross field and see someone, yup, im shooting. if i play with rentals, i play with no hopper. but in an experienced game, if you are out gtfo the field cuz you are in the way. also, if you are playing and i am laning, and you stand in the lane, that is your fault because you are in the way. the reason so many rentals seem to get bonus balled is because they normally have a "deer in the headlights reaction" . yes i try hard to demonstrate good trigger control and i normally do good with it but there are times when the balls are already in the air and you just stand there, yea, it is your fault you got hit so many times

I split my vote, half for etekgirl's body, half for her mind, because I respect a woman's mind just as much as her cans.
*Waits to get hit*


#15 sk1tzi420

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:24 AM

Renters can be dumb I agree. But people often bonus on bunkers, I dont fire on renters when I bunker, I just call them out.

And renters across the field I just lob a few balls, and hit their hopper when they don't bring it in.

See, thats not trigger control, you dont need to spray s hopper on renters, just a few is enough for them.

#16 zchrit23

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:13 AM

As has been said by multiple people. Ramping isn't killing the sport, it's the asshole who overballs the shit out of renters that is. My local field here has a flat cap of 13 bps regardless of your mode, and 10 bps if you choose to auto it (only a noob would think this is cool...) That being said, I can reach 13 bps in semi with little more effort than it takes me to reach it in ramping. However, I refuse to use ramping unless playing in a tournament, as I have better control with semi and won't waste paint when I use semi. So again, while ramping is a tool that allows pricks to overball, a prick with fast fingers can overball with semi.

#17 spqr-king

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

How can you expect new players whos parents bought them gear to have trigger control... hand a Mini to a kid and he has a marker that can shoot a bps that guns some of us started with couldnt even dream about hitting... Kind of like buying a 19 year old a Ferrari, someone is bound to get hurt! I dont have a way to fix the problem but im fairly certain experienced players are not the ones raining paint on renters...

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#18 Latsabb

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:00 AM

I play with 10 kids under the age of 15 every time I go, and half of them have modern electros. None of them are overshooting. Maybe when they first come, but they are quickly told that it wont fly here. Younger kids actually respond better than the older people, as the older people dont want to be told. (if you get someone cocky) Pre-15, the kids are usually freaked out just having an adult angry with them, or at the idea of being thrown out, and having no one to take them home.
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#19 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:08 AM

You can bonus ball someone just as good with a mech as you can with a electro.

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#20 PB2011

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:08 AM

I honestly think overshooting happens more in woodsball since the visibility is hard to see through brushes and all that, and sometimes you shoot at things you can't fully see. Armbands as well are hard to distinguish, and I don't know about you guys but we don't use armbands in speedball since everyone is either to your side or to your front, so your ability to distinguish team and opposing players is greatly increased in speedball.

Edited by PB2011, 10 April 2012 - 07:09 AM.

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#21 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:21 AM

So many good points!

Kids are jumpy as hell. Case in point: I played some woodsball on one of the fort fields last weekend. On my team were six renters (two were kids around 12.) Ref called game on, so I ran down the side of the hill, where I told my team I was going to make sure no one got our back door. Before I even finish sliding down the hill I get shit three times from behind. I turn around see one of the 12 year old renters screaming YOU'RE OUT! at me. I went up to him and shoved my arm band right in his face and told him "You just shot out your own team mate." To which he responded "You looked like the other team."

This happened fifteen feet and five seconds off the break, with me sliding down a hill in the direction we were all running to the place where I said I was going.

It's all about control. I get shot up more at my field by players playing semiauto then I do going to a field that allows ramping. Long gone are the days where if someone bunkers me I can say "Nice move," or if someone scores a good shot on me I can't tell them that. Last weekend a guy made an incredibly shot on me from deep in some brush and 50yards away. I raised my hand up, turned that into a thumbs up, and yelled "Good shooting bro!" To which he responded "Fuck you asshole get off the damn field!"

In short: too many assholes play paintball

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#22 Irish725

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:34 AM

I honestly think that there should be better division of "Walk Ons" from "Advanced" players.

I know at Camp Pendleton Paintball, the first two games or so of the day (while waiting ofr people to show), is usually a mixed group of rentals, and gun owners. It's usually pretty low key and fun, as my self and a few other regulars are the only ones who go there consistently when the place opens.

However as the day goes by, more owners show up and they have to split up the games. This allows advanced players to play with advanced, and leaves the walks ons and rentals to have a good time doing what they do. When I play in the advanced game, I know I am gonna play a better class of player, that will allow me to improve my game. 90 percent of the time, we are able to say "Nice shot" or "Good Move" and no one really cares. If you get tagged in the Advanced game by a few extra balls, no one throws a bitch fit.

However, I have seen other people throw a shit fit for that same thing in the Rentals game, and these were people who own their own guns. It doesn't make sense why you would want to play with Rentals (unless you were purposefully limiting your advantage) if you owned your own gear. There is no challenge or skill involved in it.

We never have issues with the Advanced Game (amongst the regulars anyway), only when someone shows up once in a while who causes problem (aka trying to be a badass) and it usually gets quelled pretty quick.

TL;DR: Seperate Advanced (Electro Guns and Hoppers and any one who wnats to play advanced) from Rentals/Walk Ons (Renters and those without electric guns who feel that they are not good enough to play in Advanced).

Only time I'll play with Rentals is when I am rocking a pump. That's just for fun though.

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#23 XxJellyFilledxX

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:47 AM

I have no trigger control and I mostly play pump :unsure:

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#24 xincognitopbx

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

I don't think the overshooting is universally fixable sad to say. Paintball probably has the lowest caliber of people within a single sport.

I'm under the influence that rentals and newer 10 year olds overshoot the other team because they want to hide behind their guns. They probably don't know what it feels like to be shot 5 times as you walk off the field. They'd much rather ensure a players out rather than risking being shot.

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#25 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:29 AM

All I've got to say about ramping is this-

Ramping was introduced to paintball in 2005 by the PSP. The PSP in 2004 was a semi auto league. In 2005, the PSP allowed ramping

Take a look at the growth of paintball as a sport, in terms of players, leagues, paint manufacturers, distributors, and manufacturers all the way up to 2005... then look what happened to paintball after 2005....

How many booms, busts, & recessions did the US go through, from 1985 to 2005? Practically one every 3 or 4 years. 9/11? Dotcom bust? The economy didn't tank until 2007/2008, so why did paintball level off in 2006, and started imploding in 2008?

Ramping, both against new players and against experienced players is what is killing paintball. Players, new and experienced, do not like getting hit 30+ times in a weekend of play. That isn't fun for most people, to be screaming for their life as 10 people shoot at them in 13BPS ramping.


Look at the stats, have you ever seen what a paintball "trade show" looked like in 2004 before ramping was allowed across the board? Compare it to a paintball trade show in 2012. In 2008, there was over 80 booths at World Cup. Now, I don't think there is 80 companies in paintball period!

See for yourself!-



Skip to 3:41

Look how fucking HUGE that tradeshow was, and that wasn't even World Cup! That was just 2004 NPPL Tampa!

#26 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:58 AM

if i play 12.5 bps ramping, it will be hard to one finger, but if i wanted, i could shoot a guy 20 times
if i play uncapped semi (15-18ps) i can still shoot you just as many times as i want. as said before, its the player


Agreed, ramping isn't killing our sport in any way, it's people with no trigger control, who just try to pull it as fast as they can for as long as they can. If people were respectful when they played, and tried to play fair and considerate, and learned trigger control, then stuff like what you describe wouldn't be happening. It doesn't matter whether they're using semi or ramping, poor trigger control is purely the fault of the player, not the marker. Teach people better trigger control, don't blame the marker or the firing mode.


From my experience, 10 paintballs in a stream look the same whether the person shooting was using ramping or in semi. It's about people losing their shit as soon as they step on the field thinking they're Rambo and emptying their hoppers at everything that moves. Trigger control, field discipline, and common courtesy are in short supply on the paintball field.


These three people are right. Listen to them people, they know reality from fiction.


I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you guys. If someone it's in semi, as soon as they stop pulling they so shooting. Not so with ramping, if they come to bunker some one, and they pull the trigger three times in semi, they shoot three times, with ramping, it's thirteen.

All in all I think it's a little of both. Most of the fields I play on are semi only, and it's not pretty if your caught ramping. I think that is a more realistic endeavor-an industry wide semi only on the field, unless of course EVERY one wants to ramp in individual games, and if you can't change your mode, to bad, learn to walk.


Do you even know what ramping is? 3 trigger pulls with ramp is not 13 shots. It's 3-5 shots max. Millennium ramp stops the gun as soon as you stop pulling the trigger.
I never overshoot anyone unless I do it on purpose or lose control somehow. And I have used nothing but ramping for the past 4 years. Go figure.

Also, PSP 12.5 is 3shot, not ramp. Two different things.



All I've got to say about ramping is this-

Ramping was introduced to paintball in 2005 by the PSP. The PSP in 2004 was a semi auto league. In 2005, the PSP allowed ramping

Take a look at the growth of paintball as a sport, in terms of players, leagues, paint manufacturers, distributors, and manufacturers all the way up to 2005... then look what happened to paintball after 2005....

How many booms, busts, & recessions did the US go through, from 1985 to 2005? Practically one every 3 or 4 years. 9/11? Dotcom bust? The economy didn't tank until 2007/2008, so why did paintball level off in 2006, and started imploding in 2008?

Ramping, both against new players and against experienced players is what is killing paintball. Players, new and experienced, do not like getting hit 30+ times in a weekend of play. That isn't fun for most people, to be screaming for their life as 10 people shoot at them in 13BPS ramping.


Look at the stats, have you ever seen what a paintball "trade show" looked like in 2004 before ramping was allowed across the board? Compare it to a paintball trade show in 2012. In 2008, there was over 80 booths at World Cup. Now, I don't think there is 80 companies in paintball period!

See for yourself!-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLOe8JCcrLw

Skip to 3:41

Look how fucking HUGE that tradeshow was, and that wasn't even World Cup! That was just 2004 NPPL Tampa!


As said earlier, people loosing their shit is the problem. By blaming ramping you're not seeing the real problem here.

And to the tradeshow part. Look at the whole world past 2004 man, companies go under like crazy across the globe. I don't see that being connected to ramping at all.
Economy crisis anyone? Companies go under every day. :rolleyes:

#27 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:36 AM

^^^ your right, by blaming ramping I'm not seeing the "real problem"

The "real problem" is that people don't want to get shot up 30+ times a weekend.

Here is the exact course of events-

1) Someone comes to play paintball
2) They spend a ton of money
3) They have a bad day at the field, and go home with 30+ welts on them. Many of them will scar, some will bleed, all will have bruising and inflamation
4) They don't come back

Rinse and repeat for 5 years straight, and you have an activity that is 1/3rd the size it was 5 years ago. I watched paintball grow in size from 1988 to 2005. Since 2005, EVEN WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS FLOURISHING, the sport has shrank in size every year.

We had 20 years of consistent growth from 1985 to 2005. TONS of companies, TONS of players, TONS of events, TONS of participation.... gone after 2005


You are delusional if you don't think there is a direct correlation between ramping and the decline of paintball.

#28 Latsabb

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:08 AM

Ramping makes overshooting easier, so there is obviously a correlation between the two. However, if fields were actively ejecting players that overshot, and protecting the people getting overshot, then it would not be an issue. By not forcing people to have trigger control, you are enabling them to hide behind ramping as the reason for overshooting.

Everyone ramps at my field, unless they are playing with a mech. The hall is quite small, and when playing 5v5, or god forbid, 7v7, there are balls flying everywhere. Half the bunkers are occupied, and it is just solid stream. Rarely more than a hit or two. Kids that overshoot get warned, and if they do it again, they get thrown out. Come back and do it again? You are banned. It is as simple as that. They either shape up, and act responsibly, or they no longer get to play paintball. It is win win for the people getting overshot.

More than half the people that play at my field are young. Very young. A good chunk of them are below 15. They go there with their friends, and they dont want to be the odd man out, that got banned, and now cant go with their friends to have fun. And they werent spooked their first days, because people control themselves, and rules are in place. Renters on the field? No bunkering. Lots of renters, and just a few experienced people? No moving past the 50. 50/50 mix? Renters against renters, or enter at your own will.
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#29 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:32 AM

^^^ your right, by blaming ramping I'm not seeing the "real problem"

The "real problem" is that people don't want to get shot up 30+ times a weekend.

Here is the exact course of events-

1) Someone comes to play paintball
2) They spend a ton of money
3) They have a bad day at the field, and go home with 30+ welts on them. Many of them will scar, some will bleed, all will have bruising and inflamation
4) They don't come back

Rinse and repeat for 5 years straight, and you have an activity that is 1/3rd the size it was 5 years ago. I watched paintball grow in size from 1988 to 2005. Since 2005, EVEN WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS FLOURISHING, the sport has shrank in size every year.

We had 20 years of consistent growth from 1985 to 2005. TONS of companies, TONS of players, TONS of events, TONS of participation.... gone after 2005


You are delusional if you don't think there is a direct correlation between ramping and the decline of paintball.


Having a bad day at the field and getting shot isn't because of ramping. That's because of said person is having a bad day and getting shot. :blink:

But if you are talking about overshooting,(which I think you are) then why not rather blame the people who overshoots? Why do like some others tend to do and drag everyone under the same blanket and say that they are ruining paintball by using ramping. Or that ramping itself is ruining it which is absurd, ramping doesn't shoot unless you do.

I use ramping 99.99% of my paintball playing. 10bps millennium ramping. I don't overshoot people. Simple as that.

The decline of paintball is due to more asshats overshooting and being idiots. Not becuase of some mode that exists on a marker.
It's like blaming the nuclear bomb that hit Hiroshima for killing all those people. Completly absurd.

But as Latsabb said over me, ramping does make it EASIER to overshoot. But some idiot with a marker would have no problem overshooting you with semi either. :rolleyes:

Edited by Nobben #44, 11 April 2012 - 08:36 AM.


#30 That ghetto kid

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:52 AM

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you guys. If someone it's in semi, as soon as they stop pulling they so shooting. Not so with ramping, if they come to bunker some one, and they pull the trigger three times in semi, they shoot three times, with ramping, it's thirteen.

All in all I think it's a little of both. Most of the fields I play on are semi only, and it's not pretty if your caught ramping. I think that is a more realistic endeavor-an industry wide semi only on the field, unless of course EVERY one wants to ramp in individual games, and if you can't change your mode, to bad, learn to walk.

Like Latsabb said, your numbers are way out there. Also, I'm not sure if this goes for all fields but the fields that I've been to make you keep the original psp board setting to burst after 3 semi shots, not 0. So unless you're still rolling the trigger as you run up to bunker, you'll get 1 shot after 1 pull, 2 after 2, 3-3, 4-6, 5-9..... I'm not sure if this 100% correct, but you do have control over the gun, you are the only thing responsible for over shooting

Edited by That ghetto kid, 11 April 2012 - 09:26 AM.


#31 Toat

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:10 AM

corelation does not prove causality

You mean events aren't that large anymore? The last pro even I went to was psp in Tampa in 2006 I think.

Edited by Toat, 11 April 2012 - 11:17 AM.


#32 Toat

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:29 AM


^^^ your right, by blaming ramping I'm not seeing the "real problem"

The "real problem" is that people don't want to get shot up 30+ times a weekend.

Here is the exact course of events-

1) Someone comes to play paintball
2) They spend a ton of money
3) They have a bad day at the field, and go home with 30+ welts on them. Many of them will scar, some will bleed, all will have bruising and inflamation
4) They don't come back

Rinse and repeat for 5 years straight, and you have an activity that is 1/3rd the size it was 5 years ago. I watched paintball grow in size from 1988 to 2005. Since 2005, EVEN WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS FLOURISHING, the sport has shrank in size every year.

We had 20 years of consistent growth from 1985 to 2005. TONS of companies, TONS of players, TONS of events, TONS of participation.... gone after 2005


You are delusional if you don't think there is a direct correlation between ramping and the decline of paintball.


Having a bad day at the field and getting shot isn't because of ramping. That's because of said person is having a bad day and getting shot. :blink:

But if you are talking about overshooting,(which I think you are) then why not rather blame the people who overshoots? Why do like some others tend to do and drag everyone under the same blanket and say that they are ruining paintball by using ramping. Or that ramping itself is ruining it which is absurd, ramping doesn't shoot unless you do.

I use ramping 99.99% of my paintball playing. 10bps millennium ramping. I don't overshoot people. Simple as that.

The decline of paintball is due to more asshats overshooting and being idiots. Not becuase of some mode that exists on a marker.
It's like blaming the nuclear bomb that hit Hiroshima for killing all those people. Completly absurd.

But as Latsabb said over me, ramping does make it EASIER to overshoot. But some idiot with a marker would have no problem overshooting you with semi either. :rolleyes:

You defeated your entire argument in the last two sentaces. Making it easier to overshoot would tend to mean more people getting overshot at the end of the day.

#33 Myrkul

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:37 AM

I love my field, it's semi only, and 90% of the players just use 98 customs. :wub:
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#34 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:48 AM



^^^ your right, by blaming ramping I'm not seeing the "real problem"

The "real problem" is that people don't want to get shot up 30+ times a weekend.

Here is the exact course of events-

1) Someone comes to play paintball
2) They spend a ton of money
3) They have a bad day at the field, and go home with 30+ welts on them. Many of them will scar, some will bleed, all will have bruising and inflamation
4) They don't come back

Rinse and repeat for 5 years straight, and you have an activity that is 1/3rd the size it was 5 years ago. I watched paintball grow in size from 1988 to 2005. Since 2005, EVEN WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS FLOURISHING, the sport has shrank in size every year.

We had 20 years of consistent growth from 1985 to 2005. TONS of companies, TONS of players, TONS of events, TONS of participation.... gone after 2005


You are delusional if you don't think there is a direct correlation between ramping and the decline of paintball.


Having a bad day at the field and getting shot isn't because of ramping. That's because of said person is having a bad day and getting shot. :blink:

But if you are talking about overshooting,(which I think you are) then why not rather blame the people who overshoots? Why do like some others tend to do and drag everyone under the same blanket and say that they are ruining paintball by using ramping. Or that ramping itself is ruining it which is absurd, ramping doesn't shoot unless you do.

I use ramping 99.99% of my paintball playing. 10bps millennium ramping. I don't overshoot people. Simple as that.

The decline of paintball is due to more asshats overshooting and being idiots. Not becuase of some mode that exists on a marker.
It's like blaming the nuclear bomb that hit Hiroshima for killing all those people. Completly absurd.

But as Latsabb said over me, ramping does make it EASIER to overshoot. But some idiot with a marker would have no problem overshooting you with semi either. :rolleyes:

You defeated your entire argument in the last two sentaces. Making it easier to overshoot would tend to mean more people getting overshot at the end of the day.


You aparently didn't even read my post.
It makes it EASIER but it does not MAKE people do it. :rolleyes:
Dude, it's easier becuase you can shoot with one finger and still get 10bps. Not becuase you magically shoot more paintballs than you want to. You are still in control of the gun.


Thanks for trying to be a smart-ass. :tup:

Edited by Nobben #44, 11 April 2012 - 11:50 AM.


#35 HeroForADay

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:03 PM

Everytime I read this debate I facepalm so fucking hard I could send my arm through my desk.

I'll say it once again, just incase you didn't understand the first time, or by the fact that most of you likely havent played paintball anywhere beyond your small community.

Ramping isn't the issue, it never was. The issue was that with ramping they ALSO raised the BPS cap. Yes, ramping allows for overshooting the EXACT same way any person like myself who can easily shoot out 15+ bps in semi. To continue with Nobbens point, yes ramping does make it easier, it allows for a mechanical assist rather than have the person physically have to pull the trigger that many times. It's become increasing apparent that most of you dont even understand how ramping works when you hate on it. It isnt uber1337godmodewtchax. It simply ups the trigger pulls through electronic means, it essentially allows you to pull higher than you normally could using semi. When they introduced ramping, they increased the BPS thinking that is what people wanted to see. You know, paintball was, is, and always will be that underground extreme 'sport'.

Years later, we're seeing the effects of a longstanding issue with BPS caps, not ramping. In hndsight everyone likes to jump on the 'we hate ramping' bandwagon without ever looking at the other factors. I was there, I played that. The issue stemmed from the increase in BPS that ramping allowed when guns COULDNT shoot well in semi at all. Long, heavy, and sloppy ass triggers made it alot more difficult than your super gun of today with a 15g, 1cm trigger pull. They made most ramping modes to offset the old problems of poor semi auto triggers, and with it they raised the bps cap.

15bps ramp is the exact same as 15bps semi. When you hit a person with that stream I garuntee you will also hit them with 6+ shoots in either case. There is quite a long delay between you seeing the hit, or them reacting to the hit, putting their hand up, and you percieving them as calling their hit. In that whole time it may only be 1-2 seconds, but the reality of it is 2 seconds X 15BPS = 30 potential shots in the air, regardless of fire mode. Paintball is now realizing that yes, people dont want to be shot up like that, and the solution has been there for goddamn years. Lower the BPS cap down to something usable, and not so intimidating or painfull in those cases. Its come to the point where I see 12 as the most usable cap in a tourney setting, and 10 at the most for rec play.

If you only see ramping as the issue, you're looking at a problem at face value, and failing to see the other factors that contribute. As another post stated, correlation does not mean causation. Any proper scientist could tell you this, so lets not jump to the easy solution of OMGBANRAMP.

#36 pb=life

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:07 PM

My field is semi only and most people cap their guns around 8 bps semi

#37 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:08 PM

Everytime I read this debate I facepalm so fucking hard I could send my arm through my desk.

I'll say it once again, just incase you didn't understand the first time, or by the fact that most of you likely havent played paintball anywhere beyond your small community.

Ramping isn't the issue, it never was. The issue was that with ramping they ALSO raised the BPS cap. Yes, ramping allows for overshooting the EXACT same way any person like myself who can easily shoot out 15+ bps in semi. To continue with Nobbens point, yes ramping does make it easier, it allows for a mechanical assist rather than have the person physically have to pull the trigger that many times. It's become increasing apparent that most of you dont even understand how ramping works when you hate on it. It isnt uber1337godmodewtchax. It simply ups the trigger pulls through electronic means, it essentially allows you to pull higher than you normally could using semi. When they introduced ramping, they increased the BPS thinking that is what people wanted to see. You know, paintball was, is, and always will be that underground extreme 'sport'.

Years later, we're seeing the effects of a longstanding issue with BPS caps, not ramping. In hndsight everyone likes to jump on the 'we hate ramping' bandwagon without ever looking at the other factors. I was there, I played that. The issue stemmed from the increase in BPS that ramping allowed when guns COULDNT shoot well in semi at all. Long, heavy, and sloppy ass triggers made it alot more difficult than your super gun of today with a 15g, 1cm trigger pull. They made most ramping modes to offset the old problems of poor semi auto triggers, and with it they raised the bps cap.

15bps ramp is the exact same as 15bps semi. When you hit a person with that stream I garuntee you will also hit them with 6+ shoots in either case. There is quite a long delay between you seeing the hit, or them reacting to the hit, putting their hand up, and you percieving them as calling their hit. In that whole time it may only be 1-2 seconds, but the reality of it is 2 seconds X 15BPS = 30 potential shots in the air, regardless of fire mode. Paintball is now realizing that yes, people dont want to be shot up like that, and the solution has been there for goddamn years. Lower the BPS cap down to something usable, and not so intimidating or painfull in those cases. Its come to the point where I see 12 as the most usable cap in a tourney setting, and 10 at the most for rec play.

If you only see ramping as the issue, you're looking at a problem at face value, and failing to see the other factors that contribute. As another post stated, correlation does not mean causation. Any proper scientist could tell you this, so lets not jump to the easy solution of OMGBANRAMP.


Damn you! Why do you formulate your arguments so much better than me. :D

So yeah, this guy here said everything I wanted to say in a better way. Read his post people.

#38 HeroForADay

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:22 PM

It's not formulated all that well. I'm just angry as I've seen this argument come up over and over and over throughout the years, and nobody can realize there's more to this than ramping. Looking back at where I've played, and what I've done - ramping only highlighted the underlying problem paintball has with no standardized BPS cap. Through its implementation in the highest level of competitive paintball, the trickle down effect made people realize that paintball sucks when you can't go out and have a jolly good time without being shot up 30+ times. It had nothing to do with the mode your gun was in, it had everything to do with the potential of electronic guns become so far above what any person could need that the crazy ass BPS we could achieve was abused to gain a tactical advantage.

Now people like to blame ramping, when all along it simply just highlighted the underlying issue we have had all along with the evolution of technology. My solution? Cap the leagues, cap the fields, cap out the guns in most modes to the lower end of what we actually need on the field. 10/12 is perfectly usable, you can still lane, yet you can still move, snap shoot, and reduce the risk of new players getting absofuckinglutely lit up.

It's the simply solution that has been ignored for a decade.

#39 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:29 PM

10bps Millennium ramp is perfect. You can you want it.

You know what? I think I might break out my camera and make a video about this whole discussion.

#40 HeroForADay

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

I'll fly to Norway and help you. Marauder Shields would think it's the best thing to do.

#41 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

If ramping puts everyone off why are we here?

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#42 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

I'll fly to Norway and help you. Marauder Shields would think it's the best thing to do.


For Marauder Shields!

But seriously. I'm charging my camera right now. Maybe I'll have something up soon.

#43 andrewthewookie

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:38 PM

If ramping puts everyone off why are we here?

You're missing the point. It's not that ramping puts off everyone, it's that ramping is the scapegoat for the underlying issues with the decline in paintball.

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#44 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:40 PM


If ramping puts everyone off why are we here?

You're missing the point. It's not that ramping puts off everyone, it's that ramping is the scapegoat for the underlying issues with the decline in paintball.

Thats what I'm saying. I don't see why ramping is so bad, most everyone can shoot faster than 12.5 BPS, if paintball became semi only the problem is still there, what the hell is so magic about ramping that puts people off?

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#45 Toat

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:46 PM

Everyone arguing that it comes down to players control and that players still have control of overshooting with ramping.
OF COURSE that is true, no one is arguing on that.

Ramping makes it EASIER to overshoot people, so at the end of the day more people will get overshot. Can responsible players still control a ramping gun and not overshoot? Of course, but on a whole, looking at the big picture, making it easier for something to happen will lead to it happening more.

Ramping makes it easier in paintball to overshoot someone, so more people will be overshot and detered from the sport.

Learn to use logic, I'm not arguing anymore.

Edited by Toat, 11 April 2012 - 12:47 PM.


#46 Latsabb

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:50 PM

I feel like I have to mention this again... You wont end up with people overshooting if you put a hard stance on it. People overshoot because they are allowed to overshoot. Plain and simple. A bigger engine allows you to speed easier. In an area with no police, people will speed like crazy. Add in police/speed traps, and the speeding goes away. This is about anything. Same with children. Candy doesnt make kids scream, but if you let the kids scream for candy, they will.
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#47 HeroForADay

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

That defeats the notion of any sport or hobby that relies on technology.

I guess we should limit all paintball guns back to mechnical because it wont allow for overshooting.

I guess we should go back to wooden longbows because it makes it harder to pull the bow back into a full draw.

I guess we should limit all vehicles down to 100KPH because it makes us less likely to speed or race.

Once again, ramping doesn't make it any easier to overshoot than a person who can pull 15+ in semi. It's either mechnical or physical, the real difference in shots makes no differeance at an equal cap.

Yup, logic.

#48 Demon

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

i just think it is awesome he is able to afford all those highends and is willing to buy that for his friends, you are awesome bro.

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#49 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

I feel like I have to mention this again... You wont end up with people overshooting if you put a hard stance on it. People overshoot because they are allowed to overshoot. Plain and simple. A bigger engine allows you to speed easier. In an area with no police, people will speed like crazy. Add in police/speed traps, and the speeding goes away. This is about anything. Same with children. Candy doesnt make kids scream, but if you let the kids scream for candy, they will.

EXACTLY!!!!!! It's the people who play that are the problem, not the technology. If there were less assholes that played paintball then we wouldn't be having this problem at all

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#50 Nobben #44

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:58 PM

Everyone arguing that it comes down to players control and that players still have control of overshooting with ramping.
OF COURSE that is true, no one is arguing on that.

Ramping makes it EASIER to overshoot people, so at the end of the day more people will get overshot. Can responsible players still control a ramping gun and not overshoot? Of course, but on a whole, looking at the big picture, making it easier for something to happen will lead to it happening more.

Ramping makes it easier in paintball to overshoot someone, so more people will be overshot and detered from the sport.

Learn to use logic, I'm not arguing anymore.


That's not logic at all dude.
I'm not overshooting becuase I don't want to overshoot anyone. In my 4 years of using ramping I have NEVER overshot someone where it was the gun's fault. Neither have I heard about ANYONE doing that.

Of course, this is at reasonable firing rates.
Learn to use facts. It might help you. :rolleyes:

Edited by Nobben #44, 11 April 2012 - 01:01 PM.





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