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The paintball in decline problem, revisited


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#1 Splintershot007

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:26 PM

Seeing as this is techpb, most of us watch mike's videos. He has mad several "paintball in decline" videos and I have watched most of them. He mentions several times ramping is killing the sport by scaring away new players, and it would be great if we could live without ramping (although he acknowledged the fact that was unlikely). This ISN'T another semi vs ramping thread (because who needs more of those). Semi players with fast fingers can definatly match the 12.5 bps speed of the standard ramping speed. I was just wondering if there was another way to remove the overshooting problem that scares away people. My opinion is that the just like with real guns, the markers arent the problem, the people are.
To be absolutly clear, I am not saying any of you suck, or Im better than you (because you are most definatly a better paintball player than me) but that overshooting comes from a lack of "trigger happy" Every player whose played a while knows the feeling when you are in a pitched fight, and you start getting a little rough with the opponents, and before you know it, you just shot a rental player 7 times and there is one less eager paintball player.
As a personal example, when I started 4 years ago, its was behind my science teachers church. 12 or so of us would meet up, buy some paint and fill our air from him, and go crazy. The paint eas always old and the markers were always shooting around 290. I didnt have a problem of over shooting, I just had a distance problem. I would often charge up, marker turned up a few fps too much with old paint that never broke and a single magnificant rainbow bruise that made using that limb painful for the next few days. People started complaing, so I had to change. I started turning down my marker to around 275, and made 15 or so feet my minimum shooting range. A combo of self policing and field intervention (like my science teacher) can change a player.
To conclude this boring, long post that in my forum n00bness probably put in the wrong section, is there a way to instill respect in players to prevent over shooting, so all players of different types can play on the same field and keep our sport/hobby/passion alive?

#2 madsnipes

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

mike should take down that video because every 3 days somebody makes a thread like this

#3 NotaSniper

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:34 PM

Or just make the thread a sticky so we can ignore them :unsure:

I don't see paintball in decline. Even out here in the ho-hum northwest the feild is packed every weekend. Our refs seperate everyone out or make people with electros shoot one finger. On a mass level your not going to fundementaly change how the game is played. You can only police yourself. I try to introduce myself to the refs and regulars. Makes "problems" and arguments go a little easier.

#4 Dak-Attack

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:35 PM

Rule enforcement coupled with lack of trigger control is a big problem.

The good news is monster balls are off the shelves (in most places... I've seen ollllld paint on their shelves.) But i have no clue what's to take it's place.

Another arising problem is also the fact that some field owners don't stand up to the regulars when they are being pricks. I've seen this a few times.

You also have to realize that we are indeed in a recession.

Edited by Dak-Attack, 15 April 2012 - 09:36 PM.



#5 madsnipes

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

im temped to post my long ass reply from the last thread to discuss my opinions on the topic

#6 ShadowZero

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

I've actually got onto some tournament players about overshooting rentals on purpose.

Personally, if I have people using ramping against me, I'm going to use ramping myself. What happens is, I start shooting, and ramping activates. 3 shot burst right? Well. if I'm shooting at a rental, I may accidentally overshoot them due to "SHIT. SHOOTING AT RENTAL. SLOW DOWN. SLOW DOWN." and there are already 20 - 30 balls headed straight towards them. It happens, but I don't mean to do it. And if I do manage to catch my trigger pulls before putting that many shots down the field, 3 shot burst always poses the problem that all 3 balls may hit.

It's a sport that you should expect to get shot, which should make you have a bit more adrenaline-filled. That causes the shots not to hurt as much.

I remember first time I played and I was shot, it only felt like a punch to my chest because I was full of adrenaline.

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#7 pb=life

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

Whats a paragraph?

#8 AceComets

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:39 PM

You cannot single handedly blame ramping for "the decline of paintball" and anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.

I will fucking cut you AceComets, I will cut you like....paper with......scissors?

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#9 kingJurzy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:40 PM

Whats a paragraph?


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#10 Octonk

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:40 PM

Over shooting is definitely a problem, but equally is the ineffective refs. Some may disagree but if over shooting is a problem on a field, and bunkering or generally being over zealous(especially with the new players) then the refs need to step in and actually do something about it. Where I played in Vancouver, only 1 of the fields had refs that seemed to give a damn.

Most were great for making sure masks and socks stayed on, but that was it. It was totally free for all on the field. North Shore Paintball had the best refs in my opinion. That is the only field I've seen a ref make someone sit out a game. The guys was over shooting one of his buddies...

Don't get me wrong, safety is the most important aspect of our game, but I think over shooting falls into that category.

#11 sameagol26

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:43 PM

I believe it's the terrible economy screwing everyone over... Who honestly wants to spend 100$/ day or more playing when that could go towards paying bills and food for your family? I mean, I would much rather play but during a recession/ crap economy, there are other things that come before it...
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#12 Toat

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:49 PM

not again...NOT AGAIN

#13 AJ1337

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:51 PM

the economy is in decline right now and paintball is expensive it doesn't take rocket science to firgure out that this is the big problem here, not ramping.. or overshooting.. personally i think if anything its the fields fault for letting walk ons play with kids with their own equipment, here in venezuela there isnt any overshooting because we let the walk ons play then we step unto the field and play only against other teams.. and if theres some rec play issues well thats the reffs and the fields fault not ramping

Edited by AJ1337, 15 April 2012 - 09:59 PM.


#14 Splintershot007

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:19 PM

You cannot single handedly blame ramping for "the decline of paintball" and anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.


Not ramping, just over shooting. Butterfly trigger, response trigger, full auto, burst - none of these need a ramping board to coat some one with paint.

Whats a paragraph?

Typing a touch screen doesnt give one much of a tab feature

#15 Splintershot007

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:31 PM

mike should take down that video because every 3 days somebody makes a thread like this


Which one? He talks about it in his pbnation sell out vid a bit, His autococker and automag vid, the is paintball dying video. Cockerpunk has a response video wwith his own opinion. And then there are the idiots like me who just seem to "moan and bitch on forums". But im not trying to flame or troll or shit on modern markers or anyone who uses a nice gun. I just was wondering what we and fields can do to make paintball more fun for everyone. At my local field, more and more control-less kids with beautiful markers talk shit and screw around between games, and slaughter the rental groups and budget ballers during games. They joke about making the refs "dance." they spot the rentals, usually 5-10 on a slower day and destroy them. And i never see the rentals again...

#16 Myrkul

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:50 PM

mike should take down that video because every 3 days somebody makes a thread like this

:tup:
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#17 AbRa KaDaBrA

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:56 PM

its paintball. if you get lit up, then get back on your feet and learn to get better, stop being such pussies about it. and if its "little kids" that are getting scared away, then boo, i have been playing since i was 9 years old. ive gotten lit up plenty of times, when you fall of a horse you either get back up or walk away like a sissy.

#18 drg

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:57 PM

Everybody pump
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#19 NotaSniper

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:22 AM

Everybody pump


I overshot someone playing pump once. It was his fault though. ......

#20 drg

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:45 AM


Everybody pump


I overshot someone playing pump once. It was his fault though. ......


Yep. Overshooting with a pump is usually only deliberate.
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#21 Sanguine Wave

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:33 AM

I believe it's the terrible economy screwing everyone over... Who honestly wants to spend 100$/ day or more playing when that could go towards paying bills and food for your family? I mean, I would much rather play but during a recession/ crap economy, there are other things that come before it...


$100 a day? I know paintball is more expensive in Canada, but that is crazy! It's possible for me to play 4-5 hours on $40 at my field. Which includes 1500 decent paintballs (Usually Formula 13), and all day air. And if I really wanna splurge I will get a case of premium for a total of about $65 a trip, which will last me about 6 hours. I think if people were more conservative with their paint (especially in speed ball, you don't need to shoot half a hopper shooting at one guy because he's up close!). Some people just think that they have to shoot 2 cases when they go out, and then complain about prices! (I'm not saying you're complaining)

#22 PB2011

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:46 AM

^ Actually 100 dollars is a pretty accurate estimate, for me at least, and I normally split a case with my friend every time I go.
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#23 NotaSniper

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:58 AM

Yeah I'm only in around 55 a day for a case and air. It's no more then my other hobbies. Heck it's cheaper then trying to pick up tail at the bar.

#24 Toat

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

The economy has recovered a lot since the recession a few years ago so I don't really get people still saying that is the reason.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1414984.html

#25 greekpaintballer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:46 AM

In my country Greece even though we are in big recession we see new faces on the fields every weekend but thats tottaly on the fields policies.
The fields never let people with their own equipment (especially the ones with nice electros with multiple firing modes or easy triggers) mix up with rentres unless they use some tippmans or bts or stuff that can be on par with the renting equipment.
Is it still possible to overshoot someone? Of course yes does it happen though due to a mode or due to the fact that someone starts to race his trigger? No.
The next thing they have done is COUPONS. They have made coupons that you can buy online through various sales websites that cut down the cost from 25euros (equipment rent plus full hopper) to 10euros (for equipment rent plus full hopper).
That has motivate a lot of people to come and try the sport and a lot of them come back another time with another coupon. A lot of these noobs like it so much they start becoming regulars and because they have spent some time on the field the become more courageous and actually want to try and play with us. We lent them our equipment for some games and they have a great time cause they acnoledge that there could be some overshooting (though not deliberately) due to the faster paced gameplay.

The thing is per my point of view.Dont mix renters with regulars until they feel ready and comfortable of doing it.

Edited by greekpaintballer, 16 April 2012 - 07:47 AM.


#26 Dak-Attack

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:25 PM

The economy has recovered a lot since the recession a few years ago so I don't really get people still saying that is the reason.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1414984.html


Did you fully read this article or did you let the title dictate what you believe?

This article contradicts itself.

"We're not in a "recession" we are just having difficullty with job growth, inflation, and every other thing that can go wrong in economics."

Edited by Dak-Attack, 17 April 2012 - 04:25 PM.



#27 Syrellaris

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:45 PM

From what I have noticed from the Regular experienced players this monday, that I as a complete new guy played with, its not Ramping. Its 100% Trigger Happy and trigger control problem. Given my example is in Metric cuz thats whats mainly used here. I adjusted my marker at 270-285 range with shots. At my field we have a 5 Meter rule. Unless we all agree there is no 5 meter rule, its there to protect new players. Anyway, I ran in to a house thats on our field, Turned around got startled by a player sitting in a corner crouched as he aimed at me. This was around 2.3 Meters and i shot him.

It was my first time playing, I got startled. I apologized I don't know how many times and he said "no problem, you're going to be regular so I'll get you back" and we fist bumped. But A lot of the regulars play with Ego's, Eteks and other mid to high end markers and they all have excellent trigger control. They even showed me what Ramping uncapped was like etc and I'm glad they got trigger control cuz Ramping is fast. But its not the problem.

#28 RADO

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:48 PM

pointless thread is pointless. we can do nothing about paintball advertising, rule changes, the economy, and as such a small part of the paintball community techpb cant stop everyone from overshoot and make them have trigger contol. identify the problem all you want but we really cant do shit about it so i doesnt matter.




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