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brittle paint shooting


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#1 lovebunny

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:09 PM

what wout be a good way to test out what gun can shoot the most brithle paint?

and what loader can handle brithle paint best?


and has there been done any testing on it yet?
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#2 andrewthewookie

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:31 PM

First!
Tip, its spelled brittle, not brithle.

Very helpful. You did know he's from Norway, right? Also, it's probably just a simple typo. Plus, since this is the Punkworks section, let's keep to the topic at hand, which is discussing tests for brittle paint handling.


As to the OP, I don't recall any specific tests for "gentleness" of equipment, but I'm sure some fairly simple tests could be set up.

Edited by andrewthewookie, 21 May 2012 - 08:39 PM.

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#3 That Rich Paintballer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:44 PM


First!
Tip, its spelled brittle, not brithle.

Very helpful. You did know he's from Norway, right? Also, it's probably just a simple typo. Plus, since this is the Punkworks section, let's keep to the topic at hand, which is discussing tests for brittle paint handling.


As to the OP, I don't recall any specific tests for "gentleness" of equipment, but I'm sure some fairly simple tests could be set up.


Ok, then.
First of all, you would need a couple of different markers. Firstly, you would need one that is thought to be hard on paint, like a spyder or tippman. Secondly, you would need various brands of paint and a way of measuring the shell thickness. You need a control paint (something with a thicker shell) and shoot it with the low end marker and the high end marker. This way, you could distinguish between brittleness. As for measuring with a number, since all paint shells are generally made out of the same material, the thickness would be the main contributor, other than that, to compare brittleness you could use comparisons, such as Ultra evil is more brittle than Valken infinity and so forth. Just my two cents

Was that remotely helfpul, andrewthewookie?

#4 cockerpunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:01 PM

i would establish paint brittleness with the punkworks 8 foot drop test.

then try to shoot it out of as many guns as possible. probably need a case or more per gun to get a large enough sample of breaks.

it hard to test barrel breaks man. a giant PITA.
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#5 Egomaniacal

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:30 PM

Things I think would be useful to measure -
Bolt speed
Bolt force at initial motion (some bolts vary force to avoid chops)
Breech pressure profile (similar to what Tom Kaye claims to have done)

I think these are the important things to quantify in the marker. It won't tell you how much paint a marker breaks, but it would tell you which ones are at least trying to be gentle. Bolt position vs. time shouldn't be difficult, simply use a force sensor on the end of a dowel for bolt force at initial motion, and a pressure transducer positioned somewhere around the breech/barrel interface should get a decent measurement of the pressure hitting the ball.

Edited by Egomaniacal, 21 May 2012 - 11:31 PM.

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#6 JGARRIGUES0001

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:34 AM

chronograph your marker to 295 fps, stick finger in breech, pull trigger

#7 Troy

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:21 AM

Cooling the paint down is a good place to start, not quite freezing them, but getting them close (I can't imagine where you would find some place cold in Norway :D). PE has done this a couple of times for their high speed videos, and I've seen Angel do this as well on a video.
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#8 lovebunny

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:14 AM

so get a bunch of diffrent cases of paint. to the punkworks dropp test. shoot true guns. and write down data.
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#9 brycelarson

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:21 AM

so get a bunch of diffrent cases of paint. to the punkworks dropp test. shoot true guns. and write down data.


the problem we ran into in break testing is sample size. We like to work with sample sizes around 20. In this case that means you need to repeat the test until you have 20 or more breaks. We had a problem when we were doing the bore size to break test in that we were only getting breaks every 400-500 shots. 20 breaks would mean 5 cases of shooting - and that would be for each gun.

Edited by brycelarson, 24 May 2012 - 07:22 AM.


#10 That Rich Paintballer

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:40 AM


so get a bunch of diffrent cases of paint. to the punkworks dropp test. shoot true guns. and write down data.


the problem we ran into in break testing is sample size. We like to work with sample sizes around 20. In this case that means you need to repeat the test until you have 20 or more breaks. We had a problem when we were doing the bore size to break test in that we were only getting breaks every 400-500 shots. 20 breaks would mean 5 cases of shooting - and that would be for each gun.


Would it be effective to either increase bolt speed or somehow weaken the shell of a ball or modify the bolt somehow?

#11 brycelarson

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:44 AM

Would it be effective to either increase bolt speed or somehow weaken the shell of a ball or modify the bolt somehow?


that might increase breaks - but it doesn't let you compare various guns.

the trick here is to make the paint as brittle as possible while keeping that brittleness consistent.

#12 lovebunny

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:53 AM

so how abuot i get the temp down to aruond 0C. turney grade paint will get brithle as hell.
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#13 brycelarson

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:45 AM

so how abuot i get the temp down to aruond 0C. turney grade paint will get brithle as hell.


That's what Jack @ Plant Eclipse does when he's trying to get guns to break paint.

#14 Jack Wood

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 04:40 AM


so how abuot i get the temp down to aruond 0C. turney grade paint will get brithle as hell.


That's what Jack @ Plant Eclipse does when he's trying to get guns to break paint.


Correct. We get the most fragile/bad paint that the distributors have and then chill it. The problem with shooting High Speed Video is that you need so much light that the paint gets soft very quickly under the lamps needed to shoot full frame high speed stuff.
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#15 Special Ed

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:54 AM

I don't know if anybody makes a wireless accelerometer small enough to place in a reball. I think that would be the best option. By measuring the acceleration of the ball you know the amount of force on the ball. The lowest acceleration should be the genteelest setup.

#16 lovebunny

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:32 PM

But wont it read the stopp also?
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#17 Suit

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

As far as a loader goes, it would probably be best to use a higher end loader. A Pinokio or Rotor would work. It just seems that a lower end loader would put to much tension on brittle paint.

#18 Special Ed

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:42 AM

But wont it read the stopp also?


Assuming the question is directed to me: The first reading would be the acceleration of the ball. The second reading would be the deceleration.

Another option would be using a high speed camera looking down in the breach. This however would miss the effect of the ball stack pressing down on the ball in the chamber.

#19 Damina4

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

Yes cooling it is a good tip but it doesn't always work

#20 lovebunny

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:54 PM

Another intrestting thing that wout be intrestting to test is loader shield.. That soft padding u aply on the inside of loader

Like what kinda messures do i need to do. To be aple to shoot the must brithle paint i can.
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#21 1337

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

chronograph your marker to 295 fps, stick finger in breech, pull trigger

I'll pass O_o




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