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What really happened at Paintball Explosion and why I'm not coming back


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#1 robot0ninja

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:17 AM

Just a warning this will be long. There will be a tldr for the lazy people at the bottom.

To start off, I'm going to give my "credentials" so to speak. This will be my eighth year of playing. I personally witnessed what caused an entire reffing staff to be fired at Action Territory and why they no longer sponsor teams. I have been to great fields, and I have been to terrible fields. I know bad reffing when I see. And I know absolute stupidity and lack of common sense from a reffing staff when I see it. And trust me, I saw it at Paintball Explosion's big game, World at War. Now I personally witnessed what happened, I got the story from 2 refs, one head ref and one regular, I got the story from many allied players (I was on the allied team myself), from many axis players, and I talked to the owner TJ.

I am first going to start with what I saw. It all when down when the axis team pushed us all the way to our spawn the second time. There was one player left on the field on the allied side. Now there were at least 200 people shooting at him. He fought back vigilantly. After about 10 seconds, at least 5, probably closer to 10, axis players went to bunker him. Needless to say, he got lit up worse than I have ever seen in my life (a good comparison would be those youtube videos of guys letting their friends just unload their hoppers on them from ten feet away). Not a single ref, not a single one, tried to prevent this in anyway. In fact it looked to me they were trying to prevent themselves from being hit. Now every allied player was off the field. Every once in a while a brave soul would run out and try to hit as many as possible before getting lit up by 200 people (this is no way an exageration). this went on for about 5 minutes. The refs then decided to half heartedly make the axis players stop shooting. Only the people right next to the refs got the memo because of the refs failure to communicate. They then decided to just open the net to the safe zone (a zone where you can take off your goggles) and have a hot insertion. Somebody yelled kill them all. Well many allied players ran out shooting (probably around 30) so 200 guns from the axis team shot into the safe zone trying to hit the allied players. Players inside the safety zone without mask (myself included) were getting shot at. The fact that the refs took at least 2 minutes to stop this is beyond my comprehension. One kids only defense was to crawl away and go into the fetal position. He left the event with a sling. I forgot to mention, the 30 players that stormed out tried coming back in and they ended toppling over each other almost taking down the safety zones net. The refs finally got everyone to stop shooting. I went out they and expressed to all the refs how complete idiots they are and how they should all be fired on the spot. Not a single ref on the field at that time doesnt deserve to be fired. Me and my team left the field (alond with 90% of the allied team and many axis players). I doubt there was a single kid renting a gun left on the allied team after that.

Now from an axis players perspective: (this will be in first person, though I am not the axis player)
We pushed all the way up to the safety zone. The one kid left should have surrendered, but since no one asked him to and some dumb ***** when up to bunker him, there was little anyone could do. Now that the safety zone was surrounded, a random guy from the allied team would pop out from the net to take some of us out. Well obviously were not just gonna stand there and let him shoot us all day so we shot him accordingly. The refs told some of us to stop shooting so we did, all of the sudden a bunch of allied players rushed out from the safety zone shooting. We shot back. The refs explained nothing about what was supposed to happen.

My opinion on his story: I dont blame him for what he did. The refs told them barely anything. Once again, it was the refs' failure to communicate with the players and the general.

A ref's perspective: (once again in first person)
Well the first time they had the net surrounded (they referring to the axis team) we called a cease fire. We then pushed the axis players back about 100 yards. The allied team could then leave the safety zone safely and game resumed as normal. After that, one of the owners named Romeo yelled at us to never ever ever yell a cease fire again. So the second time we could only say stop shooting, which means the game is still on but we just need fire to be held. As soon as someone shoots, everyone would start shooting and we would have to tell everyone to stop again. We were supposed to do a hot insert where we would take the allied players behind the axis players and then they would take them out so the axis players would have to tag up their base again. The allied players ran out of the nets shooting so it was just mass chaos. We got everyone to stop shooting and got the injured player off the field.

My opinion on ref's story: Why didnt you tell us how the insertion was supposed to work? No one knew what the **** was going on because you refs wouldnt tell us what was going on. Because of your failure to communicate, many unmasked people were getting shot at, a player walked away from the event in a sling, and the allied players were getting lit up so badly they had to rush back into the safety zone almost bringing it down.

Field owner's story (TJ) after i expressed how unsafe it was to play in that game and how terrible his ref staff was: (first person)
Well im very sorry you feel this way and that these events happened. We definitely will be looking deeper into training refs and how to prevent a situation like this from happening again. There was supposed to be a hot insert behind the axis but I dont know what happened since I wasnt on the field when that happened.

My opinion: You should feel very sorry, and you shouldve given every person leaving early a full refund and invited them to come back to play for free with a free case of paint. You should also yell at these refs until youre blue in the face for how stupid they are and how could someone lack so much common sense. You also need to train your refs better for these events and get events more organized. The head ref on the field should be making command decisions not being more lost than the regular refs. Also, why the hell would your other owner ban the refs from saying cease fire. In situations like this, they needed to say cease fire, but they were afraid of getting in trouble from romeo.

My final opinion:
PBE's reffing staff is full of complete idiots. The owners clearly have trouble running big events and did not have enough refs to ref 500 players. I saw 10 on the field at a time at most. The fact that all of this could have been prevented by the refs communicating to the players makes me wonder why they didnt. The teams were unbalanced 2 (axis) to 1 (allied). Since most people pre registered for the axis team, everyone showing up was put on the allied team. Well like in all big games, most of the people who didnt pre register are renters and have little to no paintball experience. So the allies were out numbered and had an extremely large majority of renters. People were also switching teams. They registered to be an allie and would say they registered for the axis at check in. Why dont you have the team they registered for next to their name???? They tried to balance the teams before the game started but that failed miserably. I am also wondering why you didnt cap each teams pre registration numbers at 100 and then when both teams get full add another 100 spots to the teams and keep going like that. Or when they saw that only 100 people register for the allied team and 300 for the axis, why they didnt switch players over or cap the axis registration. Also, many of the rules went unfollowed and some were just stupid. No other field or big game have I gone to where bounces count as outs except at a night game. If i wanted to play airsoft, i would, but no, im here to paintball. There is no way to ref bounces and theres no point in having medics if there is nothing for them to wipe off. Paintball players have been taught from their first game that if the ball doesnt break youre not out, i dont know why they tried to change that. Now i believe they made this rule because of the paint. The paint they had for the event was extremely hard. Let me give an example. I hit a hard wooden hut in vietnam from 20 feet away. the paintball bounced off. My good friend and former ref at my home field chucked a paintball on the concrete in the parking lot and it bounced off. Why make rules to cater to the paint? why not just get good paint that doesnt bounce off hard surfaces. It was very frustrating for me as a medic to run to places under heavy heavy fire to wipe a hit that wasnt there. I got bounces off of my lense for gods sake. Also, there was a rule that when a team has a helicopter going, the other team cannot run back to where they are going to drop to just light them up. That happened every time there was a helicopter drop. Also, their field is just too damn small for 500 players. It needed to be capped at 300, maybe 350.

I am probably not coming back to this field until both owners send me an apology for their unsafe event and that they made radical changes to how refs run things there. TJ already knows that. I feel very sorry for everyone in this game, it was complete bull **** and i dont think anyone should feel safe going there.

TLDR: The refs allowed a kid to get bunkered by ten people at one time while another 200 were shooting at the kid from no farther than 50 feet. The refs also opened up safe zone netting allowing people without goggles on to get shot at by the same 200 players. The event was very unorganized.

Still TLDR: Refs sucked, people got injured.

#2 smoke14

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

If that happened to me I would have left also... I'm not playing at a field where refs think it's ok to let 10 people bunker 1 kid at once and open up safety netting so people without goggles on can get shot at.

#3 jimbob23929

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:51 AM

This is completely ridiculous. I would never come back to this field if this happened to me.
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#4 Deceiver

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:13 PM

I was at this event and on the Axis end their were a few refs that were clueless, but others that were working their asses off to try and fix this. The situation was hard to work out. That being said, it would suck to be on the Allies =P

EDIT: The refs tried their best on our end, they took a bunch of our teams and top players and put them on your side. They moved us back SEVERAL times. I just think that when they saw the team imbalance for preregistration they should have done something about it

Edited by Deceiver, 02 July 2012 - 12:17 PM.

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#5 robot0ninja

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:21 PM

I was at this event and on the Axis end their were a few refs that were clueless, but others that were working their asses off to try and fix this. The situation was hard to work out. That being said, it would suck to be on the Allies =P

EDIT: The refs tried their best on our end, they took a bunch of our teams and top players and put them on your side. They moved us back SEVERAL times. I just think that when they saw the team imbalance for preregistration they should have done something about it

i know that they did try to balance teams, but they should have never allowed 200 players to be shooting at one kid, and they should have never allowed 200 players to shoot into a safe zone. theres no excuse for that.

#6 cockerpunk

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:30 PM

this is a good reason to go to a name brand, well run, from an experienced producer event ... like a viper event!
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#7 robot0ninja

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:40 PM

this is a good reason to go to a name brand, well run, from an experienced producer event ... like a viper event!

very true. they were totally unprepared for the amount of players that showed up. thats what i like about living legends. when something went wrong they fixed it before it went bad. like the rippers. they saw the third faction wasnt working so they fixed it. here, they saw many times the axis team pushed all the way to our spawn and every time it got uglier and uglier. Glad im going to blast camp in august for the viper game there.

#8 jake t

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

for some reason, i feel like i am the only person who did not hate this event. sure, the refs fucked up. But it puzzled me why the allies kept running out of the netting.

If PBexplosion does this next year, and i hope they do. they will learn from their mistakes. And hopefully have a solid scenario.

#9 Irish725

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:03 PM

I can't imagine many people going back to this event, just reading about it would make me want to boycott their park.

But then again, my teammates were at this scenario trying to unfuck things for the Allies side, so might just be a little biased.

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#10 robot0ninja

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:24 PM

for some reason, i feel like i am the only person who did not hate this event. sure, the refs fucked up. But it puzzled me why the allies kept running out of the netting.

If PBexplosion does this next year, and i hope they do. they will learn from their mistakes. And hopefully have a solid scenario.

For the record, I was having a blast until the refs let this bullshit happen. I do realize they didn't have the great refs I experienced during walk on play, so I may be back for walk on but if they don't change up training for these refs for next years event I won't be attending. Like my team mate Irish said, me and the rest of brew city bomb squad worked really hard with some other players keeping us in the game going on suicide helicopter rides

#11 jake t

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

I can't imagine many people going back to this event, just reading about it would make me want to boycott their park.

But then again, my teammates were at this scenario trying to unfuck things for the Allies side, so might just be a little biased.


this is true, me and my team switched sides to the allies near the end to help out.

well, sadly, we had to switch back to the axis because someone on the allies side shot one of my buddies point blank. and said "fuck you"

#12 spisla

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

The two biggest things I agree with you on, that would make me not want to come back are 1) they lifted the safety netting up when people had their goggles off, and aloud the other team to shoot inside it. That was completely the refs fault for not completely explaining what was going to happen, and a danger to people without their masks off behind the safety net, as well other things.

2) the teams were really unbalanced. However, while it is a big game (for fun) it is very difficult to convince people to go to a team that is getting dominated


Here's what I disagree with..
IMO, the thing where the kid (I'm assuming he was an experienced player if he chose to be out there by himself) stayed out alone against the 200 players, he should sure as hell expect to be hit a couple hundred times. Think about it, even if everyone there is a PUMP player, I can get 5 bps on a pump, and that's easy, that's 1000 rounds a SECOND being shot at him. So, while yes, it might have been extremely brutal to watch and experience for the kid, he should know what's coming to him, and IN A WAY (Please don't flame me or get angry at me for saying this) it was his fault. It's not up to the refs to even suggest surrendering. And with 200 guns rolling at you, I would imagine it could be difficult for you to hear someone yell surrender.
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#13 jake t

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:31 PM

^^^ exactly, what do people people expect when they run out, guns blazing, with all those people ready to shoot them.

However the refs should have stopped it before it started.

#14 XxLOPERSxX

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:35 PM

Honestly, props to the kid for sticking it out with 200 people shooting at him and not surrendering Spartan style.
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#15 robot0ninja

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:02 PM

I'm not blaming any players here. Yes there were idiots and ass holes on the allied side as well as the axis. I'm just saying this could have been prevented with communication, good judgement and common sense from the refs. It also didn't help the refs weren't allowed to call a cease fire. It makes me wonder what would happen if somebody's mask came off, the refs would be afraid to call cease fire even though it would be very necessary.

#16 robot0ninja

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:31 PM

These are the last things I am saying. One, if anyone has video on what happened here, please please please post it up. Two, I hope TJ, Romeo, and anyone that had anything to do with planning and running the event learns a lot from this. I mean a lot. Situations like this can easily get a field to lose their insurance. Lastly, Im sorry if i got heated at the event and in my first post. I am still very upset over this but Im sorry for belittling the refs and the owners. I was just trying to get my point across. So for now, im just waiting to see what the owners do. I hope it involves some type of compensation, especially to the allied side, and if they dont do anything at all, at least compensate to the two injured players. I seriously think they should be given free entry and paint for a year to compensate. But im just gonna wait and see, until then good day folks.

#17 Ben Stanczik

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:48 PM

I hear lawsuits... But I would've left also. Sounds terrible

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#18 nighthunter

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:28 PM

I've had bad days, but this takes the cake. People with no masks getting lit up is a great way to get the fields insurance revoked and the field shut down.

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#19 Jarz

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:28 PM


this is a good reason to go to a name brand, well run, from an experienced producer event ... like a viper event!

very true. they were totally unprepared for the amount of players that showed up. thats what i like about living legends. when something went wrong they fixed it before it went bad. like the rippers. they saw the third faction wasnt working so they fixed it. here, they saw many times the axis team pushed all the way to our spawn and every time it got uglier and uglier. Glad im going to blast camp in august for the viper game there.

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#20 Rival

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:29 PM

Assuming we have all the facts here then this is without question shocking and frankly appalling, and that is a reflection on the site owner just as much as it is on his idiotic staff. I've seen some pretty suspect officials in my time but that would make me look twice if you get my meaning. To lift up a safety net in the middle of a game is so unbelievably stupid that more adequate words of vilification escape me. If a site cannot guarantee my safety then I'm taking my business elsewhere, its as simple as that. And so should everyone else. If I were you I would seriously keep this fresh in the owners mind. His business is going to suffer if he continues to employ idiots like the one's described, and he also should understand that legal implications are bound to follow if this type of behavior becomes common.

Edited by Rival, 02 July 2012 - 11:33 PM.

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#21 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:32 PM

So you are going to Blast Camp for the game then? I'll try and make it but no promises.

Anywhoo...

I was dog tired by the time that I heard that our spawn point was about to be overrun. But I aired up and went out to see if I could make something happen. On the way to the safe zone I had my bright red Karni in the air along with my free hand screaming "DEAD PLAYER COMING THROUGH!" Only to have an Axis asshole yell "He's doing a deadman's walk!" And light me up from behind. But whatever, I shrugged it off.

Then I get to the top of Turmoil and it's already surrounded. Since I was walking to the safe zone in the same direction as the Axis advanced I asked the guys to hold fire so I could get in there, which they kindly did. I get in there, take off my mask, and begin to wipe off a gun hit i got when I heard someone yell "HOT INSERTION GO GO GO!" Followed by paintballs breaking off the table that I'm sitting at inches from my face. I put my back to the net, put on my mask and turn around to see two refs holding the netting wide open, with three players on the ground, and people tripping over them while tons of paint poured into a safe zone with close to 30 players without masks on.

I have already posted a long winded reply over on this thread on Nation, but PBE needs to take a look at how Viper gets his stuff done. And until I hear that they are making attempts to correct these problems then I will either play locally, or drive the extra hour and pay the higher prices at CPX if it means I can have a better experience than this

Edited by TooTallNiCo, 02 July 2012 - 11:32 PM.

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#22 PbMilker

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:38 PM

I was at this and I didn't get too see too much of it fortunately. I was there when the Allies were backed up into their spawn, and I didn't want to hang around there. No one was leaving the buildings, which should have made the refs do something. Communication was pretty horrible, and I really didn't have a lot of fun with this scenario as I thought I would.

From what I kept hearing though, groups on the allies kept leaving throughout the day and I would guess from the poor gameplay. Refs kept pushing people over from the Axis (as said above). Going along with that after I heard about the preregistration, there was way better ways of doing it.

#23 GeoAkuna

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:09 AM

The main problem was the fact that the Allies were already outnumbered from the start. It was definitely a learning experience. After the whole airstrike-game-stopping thing happened, the Allies really picked it up.

I was Captain America and played and watched the whole second half and played for a while in the first.

Edited by GeoAkuna, 03 July 2012 - 12:10 AM.


#24 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:12 AM

Well I think this thread has served its purpose and everyone know what went wrong. So lets move past this and hopefully the saints and pbe will do much better next time

#25 Deceiver

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:13 AM

The main problem was the fact that the Allies were already outnumbered from the start. It was definitely a learning experience. After the whole airstrike-game-stopping thing happened, the Allies really picked it up.

I was Captain America and played and watched the whole second half and played for a while in the first.


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#26 Demon

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:21 AM

if i would have been in the dead zone with my mask on as soon as i saw a ref open up the netting i would be tackling him and pulling it down. that is inexcusable there is literally 0 reasons in any way shape or form you could think that is ok to lift SAFETY netting. and frankly i think someone needs to fire romeo, there is no reason to get rid of ceasefire calls. i really hope someone has their insurance agent speak with them on safety because romeo obviously doesn't know what kind of a legal document he signed to be running that field. i know i will not go there. ever.

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#27 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:29 AM

if i would have been in the dead zone with my mask on as soon as i saw a ref open up the netting i would be tackling him and pulling it down. that is inexcusable there is literally 0 reasons in any way shape or form you could think that is ok to lift SAFETY netting. and frankly i think someone needs to fire romeo, there is no reason to get rid of ceasefire calls. i really hope someone has their insurance agent speak with them on safety because romeo obviously doesn't know what kind of a legal document he signed to be running that field. i know i will not go there. ever.

You can't fire someone who owns the field, lol

#28 Demon

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:41 AM

apparently there are two owners, and in that case he can actually attempt to revoke his ownership for safety reasons. he can work through his attorney to do so. as it can damage the field's insurance.

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#29 pb=life

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:41 AM


if i would have been in the dead zone with my mask on as soon as i saw a ref open up the netting i would be tackling him and pulling it down. that is inexcusable there is literally 0 reasons in any way shape or form you could think that is ok to lift SAFETY netting. and frankly i think someone needs to fire romeo, there is no reason to get rid of ceasefire calls. i really hope someone has their insurance agent speak with them on safety because romeo obviously doesn't know what kind of a legal document he signed to be running that field. i know i will not go there. ever.

You can't fire someone who owns the field, lol

You could shut down the field.

#30 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 01:13 AM

I dont want the field shut down, I want it changed so this never happens again. Nobody wants to see a paintball field close down, especially one like paintball explosion. Its a great field, they just need to fix these major mistakes and move on.

Edited by robot0ninja, 03 July 2012 - 01:15 AM.


#31 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 01:59 AM

I honestly couldn't believe they allowed a safe zone to be put up in the field. Long balls could have easily been lobbed in there, and the shell and spray coming through the netting is still enough to fuck up your eyes. Everywhere I've been to with safe zones usually declares that the area surrounding a safe zone by usually 20feet is a no fire zone.

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#32 Greyknight

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 02:54 AM

One thing they could have done to avoid this completely is just set a limit as to how close you can get to the other teams safe zone. I had fun at this event and the unbalanced teams didn't really seem to obvious until after the lunch break.
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#33 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:44 AM

One thing they could have done to avoid this completely is just set a limit as to how close you can get to the other teams safe zone. I had fun at this event and the unbalanced teams didn't really seem to obvious until after the lunch break.


Yeah it was easy to tell even before that. Before you guys overran Nam I stationed ten, yes only 10, players up top to ring the ridge top because that's all we had. There were about 30 experienced players spread out between Nam, Biohazard, the Saloon and Turmoil, with about 50 rental players 20 yards behind them who wouldn't advance no matter what we did. You guys out gunned the experienced players, and before we all had time to wipe off our hits and grab water (no more than 3 minutes inside the safe zone) you guys were on top of our spawn and we had no way out.

I go to big games and scenarios in hopes of playing alongside some of the great scenario teams in the area. But when I turned around before game on to see twice as many green rental masks as I did people with their own gear and see next to none on the Axis side I can't help but feel a little screwed over. And then when the Axis had our spawn surrounded and there was clearly no way for us to do anything they did nothing to put us back in the game. At that point the refs took away the game from us. We couldn't field a single player for close to 20 minutes. At that point I couldn't give less of a damn about the score. All I wanted to do was to play. But thanks in part to shitty planning on the event coordinator side, and no action taken by the referees, most of the Allied players packed up and left by 2pm

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#34 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

Well I'm going to make a new thread for the soul purpose of constructive advice. Do not tell the story of what happened, don't even say how unhappy you are with the event. I ask that you post only suggestions and ideas to make future scenarios the best they can be. Like I said before, I was very very very heated Sunday and yesterday and you can tell that from my posts. I should have waited until I had a cool head to post this thread. So I apologize to the saints, the refs, and TJ and Romeo. I just want you guys to know that you have my full support in creating a better scenario. I think pbe is too good if a field to let one scenario ruin its reputation. Thanks for understanding guys.
Ben Ault

Edited by robot0ninja, 03 July 2012 - 11:02 AM.


#35 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:00 PM

new thread here guys, keep it classy. remember, we already know what happened and what went wrong. so only constructive ideas on how to prevent it next time. http://www.techpb.co...howtopic=197829

#36 Greyknight

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:30 PM


One thing they could have done to avoid this completely is just set a limit as to how close you can get to the other teams safe zone. I had fun at this event and the unbalanced teams didn't really seem to obvious until after the lunch break.


Yeah it was easy to tell even before that. Before you guys overran Nam I stationed ten, yes only 10, players up top to ring the ridge top because that's all we had. There were about 30 experienced players spread out between Nam, Biohazard, the Saloon and Turmoil, with about 50 rental players 20 yards behind them who wouldn't advance no matter what we did. You guys out gunned the experienced players, and before we all had time to wipe off our hits and grab water (no more than 3 minutes inside the safe zone) you guys were on top of our spawn and we had no way out.

I go to big games and scenarios in hopes of playing alongside some of the great scenario teams in the area. But when I turned around before game on to see twice as many green rental masks as I did people with their own gear and see next to none on the Axis side I can't help but feel a little screwed over. And then when the Axis had our spawn surrounded and there was clearly no way for us to do anything they did nothing to put us back in the game. At that point the refs took away the game from us. We couldn't field a single player for close to 20 minutes. At that point I couldn't give less of a damn about the score. All I wanted to do was to play. But thanks in part to shitty planning on the event coordinator side, and no action taken by the referees, most of the Allied players packed up and left by 2pm


I was playing for the allies btw... We were actually about to do a para drop to the pirate ship right as the game was called because of the storm, and at that point the axis were just starting to take the ridge so things may have gone down a little differently (although it was very doubtful that the 13 or so of us could stop the axis at that point). I didnt spend all that much time pushing the rest of the field because I saw nam needed the support more since there were less players there and it seemed like a harder place to hold in general.

Yes you could tell the teams were unbalanced but it wasn't until after the lunch break (when many of the allies were either late getting back from lunch, myself included, or already called it quits) when it became painfully obvious that we were SOL.
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#37 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:15 PM

As a General, you're also responsible for making sure things like this don't happen.

At Canadian Carnage, when we began overrunning the spawn, I started telling people to back up. Josh (Orange) can attest to this as well, we were on the radios and telling people in the spawn to tell the players on our side to back up. While I don't have control over every player, the intent was after we blew up Wolf's base, to drop back to allow them to spawn safely.

As much of an adrenaline rush as it is to spawn camp the other team, you also need to take a step back and realize that when it gets excessive, it can be dangerous and it can ruin the event. I've been on both sides of this, I've been on the team that pushed the other team back into their spawn, and I've been on the team that was being spawn killed.

Viper gives Generals several tools to prevent this from happening.

While the goal of a scenario game is to win the event, the bigger picture is to have a fun time. It's up to the refs and the producer to immediately get involved and ensure the safety of the players. Coming out of your spawn, 10 against 200 isn't a safe situation. At some point, someone needs to get involved, call a timeout, and move the players back and resume safe play.

I would have NO PROBLEM at a scenario, "standing down", dropping back 300 yards to let the other team safely insert to the field. I would also have no problem, taking a "time out" for 10, 15 minutes, to allow a bigger insertion for the other team in the sake of safety and sportsmanship.

#38 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:16 PM

As a General, you're also responsible for making sure things like this don't happen.

At Canadian Carnage, when we began overrunning the spawn, I started telling people to back up. Josh (Orange) can attest to this as well, we were on the radios and telling people in the spawn to tell the players on our side to back up. While I don't have control over every player, the intent was after we blew up Wolf's base, to drop back to allow them to spawn safely.

As much of an adrenaline rush as it is to spawn camp the other team, you also need to take a step back and realize that when it gets excessive, it can be dangerous and it can ruin the event. I've been on both sides of this, I've been on the team that pushed the other team back into their spawn, and I've been on the team that was being spawn killed.

Viper gives Generals several tools to prevent this from happening.

While the goal of a scenario game is to win the event, the bigger picture is to have a fun time. It's up to the refs and the producer to immediately get involved and ensure the safety of the players. Coming out of your spawn, 10 against 200 isn't a safe situation. At some point, someone needs to get involved, call a timeout, and move the players back and resume safe play.

I would have NO PROBLEM at a scenario, "standing down", dropping back 300 yards to let the other team safely insert to the field. I would also have no problem, taking a "time out" for 10, 15 minutes, to allow a bigger insertion for the other team in the sake of safety and sportsmanship.

that was the problem. no one was trying to get the axis to back up at all. not the axis general, not the refs, and definitely not the axis players. the first time they spawn trapped us the refs backed everyone up a fair amount of distance so we could respawn, so thats what we allied players assumed would happen this time (i say allied players because i cannot speak for the axis). well this did not happen so in the end people got injured.

The good thing is, the PBE staff, owners, and the saints team realize what went wrong and are doing everything they can to fix it. The field is only a year old so they are on a learning curve. So i just hope everyone that was there, and the people that werent help PBE out in trying to make the next event great.

Edited by robot0ninja, 03 July 2012 - 07:16 PM.


#39 LikeACheeseStick

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

I read something like this on PbN, I wouldn't even go back and tell people not to go. That's just fucking ridiculous.

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#40 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:35 PM

I read something like this on PbN, I wouldn't even go back and tell people not to go. That's just fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, I made the same thread there too. It was ridiculous, but they field is doing things to fix it. So as of right now, I am planning on coming back. That's the whole reason I made these threads so things would change. And they are.

#41 Jarz

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:23 PM

FYI, if anyone's going to the "Red Strike" game at Blast Camp, here's a thread I made for it: (Insert catchy thread name here)
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#42 robot0ninja

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:00 PM

Im going :)

#43 Jarz

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:17 PM

Please check out my thread if you are attending!
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#44 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:32 PM

just to prove I practice what I preach-



Listen @ 3:15

#45 Deceiver

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:38 PM

just to prove I practice what I preach-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wf6Xq8Nud4

Listen @ 3:15


I've listened to this 5 times over and over again and can't make out what you're saying.. May just be my speakers though

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#46 Oringmonkey

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:57 AM

"go out there and tell them to back off their base" ???<div><br></div>

#47 supertux1

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:41 AM

In my 15 years of playing paintball, most unsafe unfair scenario ever.

After spending most of the day in one place on the field, wasting my money shooting at a clearly outnumbering force with a terrain advantage, I got kind of bored.


Sure, I shot lots of people, but what's the point when there's ten of them stacked behind each other at a bunker you need to take, and they're using each other as shields?
You can't gain ground or accomplish objectives that way. I didn't really care for the bounce rule, a little odd but nothing to get upset over, but I'm sure players who missed orientation didn't get the memo.
ROF caps were not enforced, first pull Fully Auto was allowed or at least not enforced and I saw many players wandering around without chrono punches or zipties. That had me concerned.

I don't blame our rental players and walkons for not charging to the front, and I'm sure many of them just gave up which only made the push back situation even worse to the point of spiraling out of control.
I had hoped that after the lunch/storm break we would swap bases, so I could see the other side of the field, but that didn't happen.

My first time at PBE and I never saw anything but our spawn point and the close side of the Vietnam ravine, huge disappointment.

During the first spawn camping incident, I ran out of paint (8 pods) trying to defend the spawn point.
I was actually sitting in the spawn point bunker the refs told us we had to go to and touch once out, so I didn't really do anything when I got hit except tap the side of the bunker, laugh and keep shooting.
Then I realized when players can do something like that, the game is screwed, so after I ran out of paint I walked off (and got lit up doing so, even with my gun up and sock on.)
When I heard that the refs were doing NOTHING to re-balance the game, hearing stories about the overshooting, excessive close range shots and safe zone shooting, I got pissed, broke my gear down and packed it up.

I heard that some Axis teams got moved over to the Allies side, but by then it was too little too late. I didn't stick around for the 'final battle', don't know the score, don't know who won, and don't care.

I am surprised that no one got more seriously hurt. I do hope the field's insurance provider has been notified of this situation.
While I'm against shutting down paintball fields, this kind of event is the sort of thing that reinforces the notions that paintball is unsafe, spurs fears of lawsuits, and causes insurers to raise rates EVERYWHERE or flat out prohibit scenario games.
I've seen this type of thing happen before in my line of work, one of those disasters/situations that is the result of a comedy of errors that 'could have been avoided' if only one person took their job seriously and did it correctly, but no one wanted to be a whistle-blower due to fear of repercussions from management.
It's the sort of management failure that people get seriously hurt over, or worse, that ends the business forever.


So I don't blame the refs either, most of them were not qualified / mature / paid enough to effectively deal with what was going on.

#48 reumer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:25 AM

I have never been to an event in the past 15 or so years, that allows you to camp the respawn. Base sure, but it is usually a short walk from the respawn, so the hot insertion is getting in and taking back the base. Not the respawn.

I am glad that I did not waste my money on this.

Have not been to Explosion yet, but have heard good things.

This is also why I usually travel to indiana or plan my scenerio events around viper.

Too many bad experiences around here from the smaller ones.

#49 7 x

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:41 PM

I honestly dislike pbe because the staff there seem so rude. I went there to their store to buy something and when I asked for stuff they hardly helped out at all. It just wasn't a good environment and I'll just stick to H2

#50 Deceiver

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:47 PM

I honestly dislike pbe because the staff there seem so rude. I went there to their store to buy something and when I asked for stuff they hardly helped out at all. It just wasn't a good environment and I'll just stick to H2


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Anyway, they are not the most helpful staff at the store at times, but I like the refs. PBE blows away almost every other field in the Chicago area in my opinion (with the exception of CPX)

Edited by Deceiver, 21 July 2012 - 04:48 PM.

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