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#1 gogpaintballer

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:45 PM

I live in the country and have to deal with some wierd people and drunk onese so a new gun is needed, I have several older shotguns and 30-06 and 30-30 rifles. But now the Ar15 style has come to my area and everyone has one. So I am in need of a lightweight carbine that shoots a round smaller than a 556 but bigger than a 9 mil. I would any newer style firearm preferably under 800 bucks. Any reccomendations?
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#2 SOUP

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

I'd build an AR-15 personally, You can build it to your specs and customize it however you want. If you're using an assault rifle for self defense you might be on the extreme side though. A shotgun does the trick for self defense, an AR would be overkill unless of course they are zombies.








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#3 YoungGun32

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:08 PM

If your looking for home defense get a pump shotgun. If your looking for something with a lil range get an AR.


#4 A&MBaller

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:14 PM

I shot an AR-15 before. I don't see why you would use that for self defense but it will do the job alright!

#5 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:33 PM

For self defense why not get a handgun? For home defense why not get a shotgun with some birdshot? For a handgun I would get a larger caliber, like say a .45. You might also want to check into (what I believe is a newer round to the public) the 5.7.

Edited by tallsmallboy44, 29 August 2012 - 09:58 PM.

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#6 Specter

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:35 PM

For self defense why not get a handgun. For home defense why not get a shotgun with some birdshot?


This.

#7 YoungGun32

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:57 PM

Bird shot won't kill someone unless you are within arms length away, I use #4 steel shot in my shotgun. If your in a house an Ar is the wrong choice for many reasons. The round is moving so fast it won't have time to actually tumble do it'll just put a little hole in someone. If you miss it will more than likely go through 2 walls before it stops which is horrible unsafe. Unless you have some training they are hard to clear small areas with.


#8 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

Bird shot won't kill someone unless you are within arms length away, I use #4 steel shot in my shotgun. If your in a house an Ar is the wrong choice for many reasons. The round is moving so fast it won't have time to actually tumble do it'll just put a little hole in someone. If you miss it will more than likely go through 2 walls before it stops which is horrible unsafe. Unless you have some training they are hard to clear small areas with.

I only said birdshot, because it would be in close proximity, and the pellets won't spread as much, and the intended target recieving most of the pellets, and inflict a large wound with massive blood loss.

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#9 SOUP

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:23 PM

For home defense my weapon is a Remington 870. It's an ex- police shotgun that has a surefire led flashlight forend (pump handle) which is bright enough to distort vision. It's pretty much perfect for home defense, and the pump stroke is on CCM's level lol.

When it comes to firearms your choices are endless though. Choose something practical.








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#10 NJC

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

I'd build an AR-15 personally, You can build it to your specs and customize it however you want. If you're using an assault rifle for self defense you might be on the extreme side though. A shotgun does the trick for self defense, an AR would be overkill unless of course they are zombies.









overkill huh? sounds perfect

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#11 YoungGun32

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:09 PM


Bird shot won't kill someone unless you are within arms length away, I use #4 steel shot in my shotgun. If your in a house an Ar is the wrong choice for many reasons. The round is moving so fast it won't have time to actually tumble do it'll just put a little hole in someone. If you miss it will more than likely go through 2 walls before it stops which is horrible unsafe. Unless you have some training they are hard to clear small areas with.

I only said birdshot, because it would be in close proximity, and the pellets won't spread as much, and the intended target recieving most of the pellets, and inflict a large wound with massive blood loss.

In theory your idea is right but in reality the shot slows down so fast that the penetration is less then lethal normally. The shot spread can be controlled by chockes so that is all preference.


#12 OEFVeteran

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:09 PM

i have one rifle... and FNH SCAR 16s... its my home defense, range plinker, target rifle, and varmit hunter... shoots both 5.56 and .223, which means ammo is cheap, i get 500 rounds for 200 bucks...
an ar-15 with a 16.25 inch barrel and adjustable stock is a good self defense/home defense rifle, you just have to have the right ammo for it, like the Hornady TAP ammo... frangible rounds that wont over penetrate if you miss or hit soft tissue... i keep a 20rd mag with my SCAR at all times loaded with Hornadys Zombie Max ammo, and no, no because its zombie ammo but becuase its a frangible round thats match grade quality....

if you are dead set on an AR-14, companies to avoid are new Armalites and Olympic Arms... i also cant stand busmaster, ever since freedom arms/remmington bought them, they have gone downhill... i've seen a few Colt ar's come for sale for less a grand, and you cant go wrong with a colt...

one last piece of advice, if you plan on budgeting 800 for the rifle, unless you have more to spend on an optic, then i suggest you read up on the ilitary iron sights and how they work and how to zero them, its not like shooting with standard open sights
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#13 Irish725

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:40 PM

I personally use a Mossberg 590A1 for my home defense weapon, and I use Bird shot in my shotgun, as I have thin walls and neighbors that live next door to me, hence I don't want over penetration.

For personal defense on the go, I carry my Glock 22C in a Kydex IWB holster, the .40 cal is a good trade off in controllability and stopping power between the 9 and the .45.

I wouldn't get an AR-15 for home defense unless I got it in a SBR format, and even then that's iffy as it could easily over penetrate something and hurt someone on the other side.


As for the person who said that an AR-15 will only put a little hole in someone when shot from close range, first of all you do realize the round will still start to tumble as soon as it strikes a soft flesh target right? Plus your body is filled with spongy squishy soft organs, so if I shoot you in the chest or in the stomach (where most shots will be fired it as it is the largest target, and nowhere in any military do you find people trained to shoot for the head all the time (including snipers, as most are looking for a killshot, and need to make that first round count). So if the round hits and ricochets off a rib, it will tumble, ripping open all your gooey insides and fuck your shit up. So saying a "close range shot" with an AR-15 is "less dangerous then a long range shot" is completely incorrect.


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#14 Superman

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:50 PM

Three excellent weapons you could get would be an AR-15, a shotgun, or a rifle in a pistol caliber
Hi-Point 45 ACP
Smith and Wesson AR-15

Mossberg 930 semi-auto

Remington Tactical Shotguns

Weatherby Tactical Shotgun

Mossberg Tactical Shotguns

All of these are amazing weapons that will be perfect for self defense. Also if you are looking into a AR style weapon make sure you get one in 5.56 NATO because it can shoot 223 and 5.56 NATO as opposed to a weapon in 223 cannot shoot 5.56 NATO because of pressure and velocity issues with the different rounds (NATO shoots hotter than 223). Also make sure when buying ammunition you get a round that will expand and dump all it's energy on impact. The key to self defense is stopping power. Ask you're local store for what's best.
If you're getting a shotgun you can go with a semi-auto or pump (doesn't matter) but i suggest one with a stock because you will be able to control the weapon easier and in case someone tries to grab it from you (the links posted above have multiple shotguns in the remington and mossberg links).

I would not recommend handguns because you cannot control them. If someone tries to grab it they are more likely to succeed with a handgun than a full shotgun or rifle.
Personally my favorite weapon i listed was the Hi-Point 45 ACP it's a rifle that shoots a pistol round. It's easy to control and shoot and the 45 ACP is in my opinion the best self-defense round.
The 45 ACP is a big slow moving bullet that will dumb all of it's energy on impact. With self defense/hollow point rounds you will take down a person with one shot anywhere to the body.

In order i'd pic the hi-point, a shotgun, then the AR-15
any questions feel free to ask

#15 Superman

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:53 PM

Also
DO NOT get FMJ rounds you will just poke holes in your target without much knock down power and you will over penetrate like crazy

#16 YoungGun32

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:08 PM

Just set up some ballistic gel and shoot it st 10 feet then shoot a different one at 50 yards and see the difference in the wound cavity.

Op its your choice in the end but OEF is a trained soldier and knows his limitations when it comes to his ability to clear an enclosed area. Unless you have some type of formal hands on training I really urge you to get a shotgun for home defense.

Edited by YoungGun32, 30 August 2012 - 01:21 PM.



#17 Antonious

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:10 PM

If you want a firearm for specifically defending the household, a good shotgun can't be beat. I'll be getting me a Saiga 12 for this purpose once I move out of the dorms <_<

Anyway, If you still want a carbine, I'd say get an AK74 variant. Atlantic firearms has many nice ones in stock: http://www.atlanticf...ategory105.aspx
It uses the 5.45x39 which can be bought in bulk for about 25 cents a round.

Also, AKs are very reliable and simple firearms and they work quite well for personal defense.
The accuracy (or lack thereof) of an AK is very overstated. With a bit of practice, you can still easily hit a man-sized target at 100 yds. There's really no need to hit anything smaller or further away in terms of defense.

Though I will admit, I am a bit of an AK fanboy...

Edited by Antonious, 30 August 2012 - 07:12 PM.

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#18 MZinCamo

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:23 PM

For self defense why not get a handgun? For home defense why not get a shotgun with some birdshot? For a handgun I would get a larger caliber, like say a .45. You might also want to check into (what I believe is a newer round to the public) the 5.7.


The 5.7 is in my opinion, the future of handgun rounds. A "modified" rifle round? Plus it goes through body armor?

I know politicians will have a field day with it but I personally am a fan.

#19 Superman

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:43 PM


For self defense why not get a handgun? For home defense why not get a shotgun with some birdshot? For a handgun I would get a larger caliber, like say a .45. You might also want to check into (what I believe is a newer round to the public) the 5.7.


The 5.7 is in my opinion, the future of handgun rounds. A "modified" rifle round? Plus it goes through body armor?

I know politicians will have a field day with it but I personally am a fan.


Except the 5.7 isn't as good as stopping someone as a .45
and it cannot be silenced just an FYI



#20 Antonious

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:48 PM

Except the 5.7... cannot be silenced just an FYI

Yes it can.

Though I'm not a fan of the Five-seveN mostly due to the price and availability of both the the gun and its ammo.

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#21 OEFVeteran

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:24 AM

Superman... your facts are wrong about the 5.56 and tumbleing... the older vietnam era ammo would tumble because it wasnt a high velocity round and the barrel was a 1 in 12 twist... the round was very unstable... todays 5.56 rfles are either a 1 in 7 twist or a 1 in 9 twist... my SCAR has a 1 in 7 twist barrel and can shoot the heaviest of 5.56 rounds with sub MOA accuracy...

as for the argument between .223 and 5.56 and which cna be shot out of which gun... the difference in chamber pressure is 20,000 thats nothing compared to what the rifles chabers can actually withstand... you can shoot 5.56 through a .223 rifle with out issue... i've seen target shoots use 5.56mm brass for their long range rifle shoots, and put thousands of rounds of hot loaded 5.56 though a .223 action AR-15... so dont pay attention to anything other then what your rifles manual says... if the manual says only shoot 5.56 or .223, then do that, or you will void the warranty...


as for what i am capable of and trained to do, i am trained to clear a room with an m4... which is why i have my SCAR as my end all be all one rifle... i will fuck shit up with my SCAR if need be... and i dont have to worry about over penetration at all becuase i use special Hornady Home Defense ammo for that purpose... you dont have to worry about over penertrating if you are shooting a low recoil frangible round, shit will break up hitting dry wall
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#22 YoungGun32

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:52 AM

I'm not a fan of the 5.7 stricky because the ammo is hard to come by and pricey. When I buy firearms I try and keep them as universal as possible so all I need is a few types of ammo instead of 10 diferent kinds.

OEF- I just see a lot of people buy variants of the Ar platform for home defense and have little to no training with room clearing or even their firearm and think its not a problems. The Ar can and is a good all around gun if you put in the effort to learn proper technique but to just stick it next to your bed and call it a day is extremely unsafe. Your right about the frangible round but majority of people I see just throw hollow points in the mag and leave it like that.


#23 OEFVeteran

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:54 AM

i was simply making a point that i prefer my SCAR or an m4 type ar-15 becuase thats what i am used to... agreed, in untrained hands, an ar isnt a good home defense weapon... but neither is a shot gun or a hand gun... i personally dont give 2 fucks if you have been hunting all your life, if you are going to keep a gun for home/self defense.... then you better damn well take a few defensive tactics/shooting classes and learn the ins and outs of clearing a house/room with only one person... as well as learn what types of ammo work for home defense... for a shotty, the two best defensive loads to get is teh low recoil home defense slugs (wont go through a properly built wall if you miss the target) and low recoil 00 buck... as for any hand gun or rifle, get Hornady TAP (rifle) and Hornady Critical Defense (handgun)

http://www.hornady.c...ritical_defense

http://www.hornady.com/store/tap_fpd

if you can afford it though, this is the mack daddy of all self defensive and offensive tactical ammunition... http://www.extremesh...id=3808898.6028

yeah, it sounds like a gimmick, but i've seen this stuff in person, and the devastation it causes....
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#24 gogpaintballer

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:50 PM

I will prob be getting the HI point ACP .45 that superman recommended, I like the looks and the reviews. What's the proper way to clean a gun? Also I am going to buy a laser and some sort of sight what's the best one? I don't want a long range scope or a red dot.
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#25 Superman

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:58 PM

OEF the manual of my 5.56 says either 223 or 5.56
but my 223 says no 5.56
and i've read that multiple times in forms that some 223 rifles don't like the 5.56
but whatever
and from my experience with hunting FMJs even at close range do more hole punching than dumping there energy
ii'm just going off what i know

also about the 5.57 it still has the sonic boom with the silencer so it's not all the silent
for my home defense weapons i have a springfield xd 45 with +p TAP ammo, Remington 1100 12Ga 4 shot max dram l, and a stag arms 6.8 spc with a 120 grain SST round depending on the situation
they all have loaded clips near my bed ready to go

#26 gogpaintballer

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:00 PM

OEF the manual of my 5.56 says either 223 or 5.56
but my 223 says no 5.56
and i've read that multiple times in forms that some 223 rifles don't like the 5.56
but whatever
and from my experience with hunting FMJs even at close range do more hole punching than dumping there energy
ii'm just going off what i know

also about the 5.57 it still has the sonic boom with the silencer so it's not all the silent
for my home defense weapons i have a springfield xd 45 with +p TAP ammo, Remington 1100 12Ga 4 shot max dram l, and a stag arms 6.8 spc with a 120 grain SST round depending on the situation
they all have loaded clips near my bed ready to go

Where do you buy a silencer?
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#27 Antonious

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:08 PM

I will prob be getting the HI point ACP .45 that superman recommended, I like the looks and the reviews. What's the proper way to clean a gun? Also I am going to buy a laser and some sort of sight what's the best one? I don't want a long range scope or a red dot.

There's several gun-cleaning how-to's on the internet and your gun should come with a manual explaining the break-down and assembly of it. Gun cleaning is more or less just common sense; if it's dirty, throw some CLP on it and scrub.

As for that Hi Point, I'm not a fan. It's a pistol caliber carbine that's the same size and weight as a normal carbine.
Unless you're getting it for ammo compatibility with a pistol, I really don't see the point in limiting yourself to a .45 over the slightly more expensive .223 or the cheaper 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, all of which are superior rounds IMO.

And if not a scope or red-dot, what sight exactly are you looking for? There's not much else out there in terms of optics as those are very broad categories.
If you're wanting to replace iron sights, there's really no need as the carbine's are actually pretty nice.

Where do you buy a silencer?

You would need to go to a dealer with a class III license and fill out a ton of paperwork.
The same goes for buying automatic weapons, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and destructive devices.

Edited by Antonious, 31 August 2012 - 10:16 PM.

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#28 REDCOBRA

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

25% of this thread, i understand

75% of this thread , i do not understand

I guess COD and airsoft isn't like the real thing :D

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#29 gogpaintballer

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:41 PM


I will prob be getting the HI point ACP .45 that superman recommended, I like the looks and the reviews. What's the proper way to clean a gun? Also I am going to buy a laser and some sort of sight what's the best one? I don't want a long range scope or a red dot.

There's several gun-cleaning how-to's on the internet and your gun should come with a manual explaining the break-down and assembly of it. Gun cleaning is more or less just common sense; if it's dirty, throw some CLP on it and scrub.
ve that kind of cas
As for that Hi Point, I'm not a fan. It's a pistol caliber carbine that's the same size and weight as a normal carbine.
Unless you're getting it for ammo compatibility with a pistol, I really don't see the point in limiting yourself to a .45 over the slightly more expensive .223 or the cheaper 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, all of which are superior rounds IMO.

And if not a scope or red-dot, what sight exactly are you looking for? There's not much else out there in terms of optics as those are very broad categories.
If you're wanting to replace iron sights, there's really no need as the carbine's are actually pretty nice.

Where do you buy a silencer?

You would need to go to a dealer with a class III license and fill out a ton of paperwork.
The same goes for buying automatic weapons, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and destructive devices.

350 bucks to me is not a ton of money so I can get this gun this fall and have some sights mags and etc. I am seeing a lot of the 556 firearms being over 1000 dollars I don't have that kind of cash to spend. I don't want shotguns either!! So don't recommend them! As for ammo goes, what the best for low recoil?
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#30 Antonious

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:17 PM

I still wouldn't buy a gun meant for defense solely because it's inexpensive.
There's several superior options out there that can be had for $700 like the M10 5.45 and the Mini 14.

But if you're dead-set on the hi-point, you'll be shooting .45 out of a 7lb rifle. Recoil should be a non-issue
You'll be wanting something meant for self-defense, not necessarily low recoil. Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Crit. Defense are my favorite HPs.

Edited by Antonious, 31 August 2012 - 11:21 PM.

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#31 gogpaintballer

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

I still wouldn't buy a gun meant for defense solely because it's inexpensive.
There's several superior options out there that can be had for $700 like the M10 5.45 and the Mini 14.

But if you're dead-set on the hi-point, you'll be shooting .45 out of a 7lb rifle. Recoil should be a non-issue.

700 is a bit too much for me but I do like the guns, anything like that that shoots the .223 I'm the 300 to 500 dollars range?
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#32 Antonious

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:34 PM

700 is a bit too much for me but I do like the guns, anything like that that shoots the .223 I'm the 300 to 500 dollars range?

The Kel-tec SU-16C is about $550.
But they're starting to get harder to find as Kel-Tec has been having issues lately. And although they make some pretty neat firearms, they tend to not have the greatest quality control.
Also, if you want more information about this rifle, DO NOT go to the Kel-tec website. It was hacked not too long ago and now unleashes a hell of a virus on your computer. I lost one of my little netbooks because of it (that and I hadn't really installed a decent AV on it yet).

That's one of the short-comings of the .223. Ammunition is cheap, but the guns? Not so much.
That's why I like Commie guns. Dirt cheap all around :)

At least for now...

Edited by Antonious, 31 August 2012 - 11:34 PM.

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#33 gogpaintballer

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:46 PM


700 is a bit too much for me but I do like the guns, anything like that that shoots the .223 I'm the 300 to 500 dollars range?

The Kel-tec SU-16C is about $550.
But they're starting to get harder to find as Kel-Tec has been having issues lately. And although they make some pretty neat firearms, they tend to not have the greatest quality control.
Also, if you want more information about this rifle, DO NOT go to the Kel-tec website. It was hacked not too long ago and now unleashes a hell of a virus on your computer. I lost one of my little netbooks because of it (that and I hadn't really installed a decent AV on it yet).

That's one of the short-comings of the .223. Ammunition is cheap, but the guns? Not so much.
That's why I like Commie guns. Dirt cheap all around :)

At least for now...

I just found a stock that can be put on basically any Glock pistol but cost 110$ so with a 500 dollars pistol I already am at 610 without any extra mags, lights lasers sights. Anyone known of a cheap gun that shoots a .233 round that is small lightweight and compact?

Edited by gogpaintballer, 01 September 2012 - 12:20 AM.

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#34 Antonious

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:18 AM

Is there a pistol that has a mount to that a stock can be added?

Like an actual pistol? I'm sure there is, but that would count as an SBR, so it would be very expensive and have a ton of paperwork.

Edited by Antonious, 01 September 2012 - 12:18 AM.

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#35 OEFVeteran

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

OEF the manual of my 5.56 says either 223 or 5.56
but my 223 says no 5.56
and i've read that multiple times in forms that some 223 rifles don't like the 5.56
but whatever
and from my experience with hunting FMJs even at close range do more hole punching than dumping there energy
ii'm just going off what i know

also about the 5.57 it still has the sonic boom with the silencer so it's not all the silent
for my home defense weapons i have a springfield xd 45 with +p TAP ammo, Remington 1100 12Ga 4 shot max dram l, and a stag arms 6.8 spc with a 120 grain SST round depending on the situation
they all have loaded clips near my bed ready to go


the only difference between a 5.56 NATO round and a .223 REM round is the thickness of the neck wall on the brass in the 5.56 NATO round... this means that the 5.56 NATO round has a higher chamber pressure then a .223... but consider this, the weakest action pressure wise out of any rifle on teh market is the AR-15... as its was designed to be a light weight carbine/rifle... most AR-15's are chambered for the 5.56 NATO... as for .223, its mostly bolt actions and semi auto long guns... if an ar-15 can handle the chamber pressure of a 5.56, then say a weatherby .223 can...

then only rounds you want to avoid are steel case ammo, like wolf (usually inst a big deal, i know plenty of people that shoot wolf as range ammo) you jsut have to be consious of the steel case having extraction problems... steel doenst heat up as fast as brass does, thats why wolf has extraction issues, the casing doesnt seal as well as a brass casing, so the chamber fouls with carbon, causing the cases to stick... it has nothing to do with the polymer coating on the case...

i've done a lot of studying when it comes to 5.56 and .223, and there is no reason why a brass 5.56 round cant be shot out of a .223 chamber, as 5.56 has about a 10% increase in chamber pressure then .223... remember, .223 is a sporter/varmit round, it doesnt need to gas pressure to cycle the bolt in a semi auto, unlike 5.56...
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#36 gogpaintballer

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:23 AM


Is there a pistol that has a mount to that a stock can be added?

Like an actual pistol? I'm sure there is, but that would count as an SBR, so it would be very expensive and have a ton of paperwork.

Look above at my post ya I figured that out.


OEF the manual of my 5.56 says either 223 or 5.56
but my 223 says no 5.56
and i've read that multiple times in forms that some 223 rifles don't like the 5.56
but whatever
and from my experience with hunting FMJs even at close range do more hole punching than dumping there energy
ii'm just going off what i know

also about the 5.57 it still has the sonic boom with the silencer so it's not all the silent
for my home defense weapons i have a springfield xd 45 with +p TAP ammo, Remington 1100 12Ga 4 shot max dram l, and a stag arms 6.8 spc with a 120 grain SST round depending on the situation
they all have loaded clips near my bed ready to go


the only difference between a 5.56 NATO round and a .223 REM round is the thickness of the neck wall on the brass in the 5.56 NATO round... this means that the 5.56 NATO round has a higher chamber pressure then a .223... but consider this, the weakest action pressure wise out of any rifle on teh market is the AR-15... as its was designed to be a light weight carbine/rifle... most AR-15's are chambered for the 5.56 NATO... as for .223, its mostly bolt actions and semi auto long guns... if an ar-15 can handle the chamber pressure of a 5.56, then say a weatherby .223 can...

then only rounds you want to avoid are steel case ammo, like wolf (usually inst a big deal, i know plenty of people that shoot wolf as range ammo) you jsut have to be consious of the steel case having extraction problems... steel doenst heat up as fast as brass does, thats why wolf has extraction issues, the casing doesnt seal as well as a brass casing, so the chamber fouls with carbon, causing the cases to stick... it has nothing to do with the polymer coating on the case...

i've done a lot of studying when it comes to 5.56 and .223, and there is no reason why a brass 5.56 round cant be shot out of a .223 chamber, as 5.56 has about a 10% increase in chamber pressure then .223... remember, .223 is a sporter/varmit round, it doesnt need to gas pressure to cycle the bolt in a semi auto, unlike 5.56...

What would be a good m4/AR-15 style carbine for me, that shoots a 5.56?

Edited by gogpaintballer, 01 September 2012 - 12:24 AM.

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#37 OEFVeteran

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

well, you will be hard pressed to find one for the price you are looking for... the Colt M4/AR-15 is a good buy...but you are talking a grand for a base model AR-15...

unless you can find one used at a local gun shop... or used on impactguns.com and gunbroker.com... and find an FFL dealer to conduct the transfer for you...

there are also .22lr chambered AR-15 types from Smith and Wesson and Mossberg that would be a good starter gun, and work well for home defense...

http://www.mossberg....ernational-715t
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#38 gogpaintballer

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:30 AM

well, you will be hard pressed to find one for the price you are looking for... the Colt M4/AR-15 is a good buy...but you are talking a grand for a base model AR-15...

unless you can find one used at a local gun shop... or used on impactguns.com and gunbroker.com... and find an FFL dealer to conduct the transfer for you...

there are also .22lr chambered AR-15 types from Smith and Wesson and Mossberg that would be a good starter gun, and work well for home defense...

http://www.mossberg....ernational-715t

So is there any firearm that is cheaper but fires the same round with the same weight, and toughness.
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#39 OEFVeteran

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:52 AM

only if you find a used AR-15... here is one thing i will tell you about the fire arms world... you get what you pay for... a 500 dollar gun wont perform as well or be a rugged as a 3500 dollar gun... yes, they may fire the same round, but they wont perform the same....

take the ak-47 and the ar-15... i've seen ak's sold for as low as 150 bucks.. they cant hit paper at 250 yards... the AK is a flawed design... reliable yes, but a flawed design... where as the ar-15 will hit a man sized target at 600 yards... and a vehicle sized target at 800 yards... yet, it takes a bit more time to clean and care for it...

my SCAR 16s, has the accuracy of an ar-14 with the reliability of an ak... other ar's have the same features, but they are mostly piston guns, and the cheapest reliable piston gun i've seen is teh SIg 516...

my advice... but a hand gun for now, take some classes, learn to really shoot, and save up for a base model ar-15 that you can modify and build up yourself... or, if you go the route i did, save up and buy the best of the best, an FN SCAR, or LWRCI M6, Sig516, or Barret REC7... there are plenty of high end piston guns that put most direct impingement ar-15's to shame... the difference betweent he two, a DI gun uses the hot gas to cycle the bolt, and vents into the receiver of the AR (this is the standard system used on military m4's and m16's) where as a piston gun uses a pistol to strike the bolt and cycle it, makes for a cleaner and cooler system.. less chance of fowling/mafunction... both systems work great, but a DI system will require more TLC after you shoot it
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#40 YoungGun32

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:59 AM

Missed out on to much of this but I agree with pretty much every thing OEF is recommending and saying.

There is nothing wrong with getting a laser sight but be very careful not to be dependent on it. I've seen a lot of experienced shooters loose their touch with iron sights because they depend on the laser and its a really bad habit because no matter how well you maintain something it always has the chance of failure.

Edit- just realized your 15, I don't want to sound like an asshole but your getting in over your head. If you don't have someone that can teach you the basics of firearms or take a few classes and learn what your getting into.

Edited by YoungGun32, 01 September 2012 - 05:02 AM.



#41 canscom

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:25 AM

Bah laser sight buy a weapon light with strobe and put a Eotech on top get a good rifle and buy good ammo(I like TAP) and take some carbine classes
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#42 gogpaintballer

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:45 AM

Ok I don't have enough money to buy a ar15 style marker, I am looking into the high point .45 ACP carbine. It is only 350 bucks so I can spend roughly 150 bucks on a good sight and a laser with a flashlight buillt into it. Any suggestions? I want the sight to be good for close quarters but also be accurate at 40 yards.
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#43 Antonious

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:25 AM

The Vortex Strikefire is a decent red dot for $170.

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#44 OEFVeteran

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

most weapon light/laser sight combos will be 400-500 bucks... anything cheaper then that and they wont work well... dont even bother with the laser sight, they are a gimmick, a red dot is the same thing, but the laser isnt project4ed onto the target
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#45 rock

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 11:49 PM

 

For self defense why not get a handgun. For home defense why not get a shotgun with some birdshot?


This.

 

because birdshot is a lot less likely to incapacitate than buckshot. If you use birdshot for home defense, you're stupid. Use #4 buckshot


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#46 rock

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 11:57 PM

Ok I don't have enough money to buy a ar15 style marker, I am looking into the high point .45 ACP carbine. It is only 350 bucks so I can spend roughly 150 bucks on a good sight and a laser with a flashlight buillt into it. Any suggestions? I want the sight to be good for close quarters but also be accurate at 40 yards

high point carbines are actually pretty nice, stay the hell away from their pistols. Go look at primary arms.com if you want a budget quality red dot sight.

 

I still recommend getting an AR-15

 

I'm not a fan of the 5.7 stricky because the ammo is hard to come by and pricey. When I buy firearms I try and keep them as universal as possible so all I need is a few types of ammo instead of 10 diferent kinds.

OEF- I just see a lot of people buy variants of the Ar platform for home defense and have little to no training with room clearing or even their firearm and think its not a problems. The Ar can and is a good all around gun if you put in the effort to learn proper technique but to just stick it next to your bed and call it a day is extremely unsafe. Your right about the frangible round but majority of people I see just throw hollow points in the mag and leave it like that.

any firearm is bad for home defense if you suck at shooting. why not use a firearm that has low recoil and is very accurate and holds 30 rounds?


i really think you want an AR-15. check out palmettostatearmory for awesome sales and possibly build a nice rifle for under $500


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#47 tcheekdye

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 01:41 AM

Ruger 10/22 with 30 round mag is cheaper than most things recommended. Honestly you don't even need the 30 rd mag because 10 bullets is enough for whatever you need. The only downside is that 22lr bullets aren't sold at many stores anymore (at least in Georgia) but it would get the job done

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#48 Antonious

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:29 AM

I got all excited because I saw somebody posted a thread about firearms.
Then I noticed that I already responded to this particular thread... over a year and a half ago.

Though I do find it interesting how I somewhat predicted the huge skyrocket in price of guns and ammo that took place late 2012. Pretty damn eery...

That's one of the short-comings of the .223. Ammunition is cheap, but the guns? Not so much.

That's why I like Commie guns. Dirt cheap all around smile.gif

At least for now...

 

 

Anyway, Necro-post is necro.


Edited by Antonious, 13 January 2014 - 05:30 AM.

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#49 ecoballer

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:22 AM

Buying a hi point for self defense is just suicide.

Edited by ecoballer, 24 January 2014 - 12:31 PM.


#50 Antonious

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:56 PM

Buying a hi point for self defense is just suicide.

Not really.
Now I've only had experience with their handguns, but they actually tend to be quite reliable and can be fairly accurate if you do your part.
They're just big, ugly, hardly ergonomic, a nightmare to clean, and not that wise of an investment considering better handguns can be had for only a hundred or so more.

But in the end, I'll take a well-maintained Hi-Point over a Louisville Slugger any day.


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