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CCI Phantom revolution news


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#1 Pump Player

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:25 PM

about 2 months ago i was talking to the god named Mike Casady and he said that it should in launch four weeks from then, and its been much longer than that. please dont tell me the gun was scrapped :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

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#2 Symptomz

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

Wrong section...

#3 CPS

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:11 PM

Wrong section...



#4 get.lit.up!

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:23 PM

MCB is correct section for this. You might want to google Pinnacle paintball and they have an overview video on it. IDK what is the deal with it now but there is a working prototype of it
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#5 madsnipes

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

last year people were saying it was going to be relesed around March / April.

Product releses get delayed constantly in paintball.

and Mike Cassidy is only one guy, if he gets sick and has to take a week off then everything gets pushed back one week.

when Mike is ready to release it, then he will. give it some time

#6 NotaSniper

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:21 AM

They had issues with the original prototypes. I thought the last batch of updates fixed them. So hopefully we see them soon.

An I the only one that keeps seeing cocker' pneumatics on the front of this thing :)

Edited by NotaSniper, 04 September 2012 - 05:15 PM.


#7 Pump Player

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:30 AM

nope notasniper i do too :) and this is not the wrong section. im asking about a pump gun, its not lke im asking about new axe boards

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#8 Pump Player

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:13 AM

its out now on paintball gateway

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#9 The-Phantom

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:10 PM

MQ Phantom?! :blink:



inserts, butter smooth pump stroke, same sleek phantom look, and highly efficient, I can dig it... might pick one up

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#10 smoke14

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:49 PM

Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?

#11 The-Phantom

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:08 PM

Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

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#12 drg

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:36 PM

Yes, divorcing the valve system from the pump basically puts it on par with the best pump strokes possible, which has always been a downside to nelsons. Personally I will never understand why the makers of these kinds of guns don't put at least somewhat regular pumps on them. The Thumper and now this gun with the silly actuating mechanism, all they are doing is cutting out a huge portion of the potential market. Just put a regular pump on it!!!!

It will be interesting to see how the hater events and tournaments deal with this marker since the pump does not reset the valve mechanism.

Edited by drg, 30 September 2012 - 09:37 PM.

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#13 The-Phantom

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:12 PM

Yes, divorcing the valve system from the pump basically puts it on par with the best pump strokes possible, which has always been a downside to nelsons. Personally I will never understand why the makers of these kinds of guns don't put at least somewhat regular pumps on them. The Thumper and now this gun with the silly actuating mechanism, all they are doing is cutting out a huge portion of the potential market. Just put a regular pump on it!!!!

It will be interesting to see how the hater events and tournaments deal with this marker since the pump does not reset the valve mechanism.


same issues you get with an MQ pump as far as tourney play goes... similar controversy there.

As far as pump handle, I agree... and could guarantee that there is a fix in the near future, from mike or 3rd party

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#14 drg

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:46 AM


Yes, divorcing the valve system from the pump basically puts it on par with the best pump strokes possible, which has always been a downside to nelsons. Personally I will never understand why the makers of these kinds of guns don't put at least somewhat regular pumps on them. The Thumper and now this gun with the silly actuating mechanism, all they are doing is cutting out a huge portion of the potential market. Just put a regular pump on it!!!!

It will be interesting to see how the hater events and tournaments deal with this marker since the pump does not reset the valve mechanism.


same issues you get with an MQ pump as far as tourney play goes... similar controversy there.


Exactly what I mean. Maybe having to ban a phantom from a pump event will wake people up. Eventually they are going to have to figure out that that rule is lame.

As far as pump handle, I agree... and could guarantee that there is a fix in the near future, from mike or 3rd party


Well there's a potential fix for everything, but not having it stock is the biggest issue.
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#15 smoke14

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:52 AM


Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

Sure it's different, but what I'm trying to get at is that a new valve system, pump handle and barrel sizers are going to automatically throw $300 onto it?

#16 Demon

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

how is this hard to understand yet? they said, once the initial batch is sold off the price will drop, it is only in the $650-$700 range to cover the design and initial manufacturing costs, if you want to piss and moan about it DON'T BUY IT wait a few months for the price to drop or get a used one. also a decent barrel sizer kit/barrel kit is going to run you about $125, the new valve system may cost more to make so tack on another $50-75 built in reg $75 new style of handle $50 now you can see where the money comes from, so shut the fuck up about it, if you don't want it don't buy it.

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#17 drg

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:09 PM



Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

Sure it's different, but what I'm trying to get at is that a new valve system, pump handle and barrel sizers are going to automatically throw $300 onto it?


It might help you to understand this is a completely new, different gun.
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#18 get.lit.up!

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:55 AM




Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

Sure it's different, but what I'm trying to get at is that a new valve system, pump handle and barrel sizers are going to automatically throw $300 onto it?


It might help you to understand this is a completely new, different gun.

Yea cause its just a semi with a pump that just loads a ball then you pump it
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#19 The-Phantom

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:16 PM





Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

Sure it's different, but what I'm trying to get at is that a new valve system, pump handle and barrel sizers are going to automatically throw $300 onto it?


It might help you to understand this is a completely new, different gun.

Yea cause its just a semi with a pump that just loads a ball then you pump it


Essentially, if you want to use the same Cliché argument every single person who describes an MQ pump like this then yes... it is

The purpose of this gun, from mike casady himself, is to be ultra efficient... if you don't want to pay top dollar, for a top of the line marker, plain and simple, don't. A lot of people don't see a reason to buy a MVP when you can get a CCM marker a bit cheaper, or even convert a cocker body for way less and have "roughly the same performance" but if you are in the market for a high end, (I'll use the term loosely) "stock class" marker than this is likely going to be one of, if not the best out there.

All of mikes other products have stood the test of time, sure he is leaving behind his roots and not selling the back to basics, clean elegant stock class phantom in this... but the term "revolution" is used very intentionally

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#20 drg

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:52 AM

Yea cause its just a semi with a pump that just loads a ball then you pump it


Sorry but that's just dumb. That's like calling a sniper an autococker that you pump.
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#21 The-Phantom

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:00 PM

Yea cause its just a semi with a pump that just loads a ball then you pump it


Sorry but that's just dumb. That's like calling a sniper an autococker that you pump.


that's not what a sniper is? :dodgy:

Edited by The-Phantom, 03 October 2012 - 02:00 PM.

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#22 drg

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:32 PM


Yea cause its just a semi with a pump that just loads a ball then you pump it


Sorry but that's just dumb. That's like calling a sniper an autococker that you pump.


that's not what a sniper is? :dodgy:


die lol
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#23 get.lit.up!

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

Yea cause its just a semi with a pump that just loads a ball then you pump it


Sorry but that's just dumb. That's like calling a sniper an autococker that you pump.

But it fires whenever you pull the trigger, and you pull the pump to load the ball into the breech? I don't get how im dumb, shouldn't be the other way around since you didn't watch the video on how the pump works?
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#24 The-Phantom

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

let's be civil people here... calling someone dumb is almost never constructive, or a valid reasoning behind an argument



...especially when there is no truly "right answer" there is disagreement on this amongst the entire pump community, it's really opinionated if you ask me.

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#25 drg

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:28 PM

No, actually there is a right answer. A gun that does not automatically load is NOT a semi. That's the definition of semi.
So if you have to manually load the ball, there is nothing -- nothing -- semi about the gun.
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#26 The-Phantom

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

No, actually there is a right answer. A gun that does not automatically load is NOT a semi. That's the definition of semi.
So if you have to manually load the ball, there is nothing -- nothing -- semi about the gun.


but on the same token, the definition of pump is where there is more of a dispute. Hence the sub-forum in which we are all posting in.

Does a gun have to be manually pumped in order to load air into the chamber in order for a shot to be cycled? or, is pump only manually moving an object back to enable the ball to drop into a breach. Regardless of your stance on this issue, there is not 1 answer all tournament operators or players alike agree on.

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#27 drg

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:57 PM


No, actually there is a right answer. A gun that does not automatically load is NOT a semi. That's the definition of semi.
So if you have to manually load the ball, there is nothing -- nothing -- semi about the gun.


but on the same token, the definition of pump is where there is more of a dispute. Hence the sub-forum in which we are all posting in.

Does a gun have to be manually pumped in order to load air into the chamber in order for a shot to be cycled? or, is pump only manually moving an object back to enable the ball to drop into a breach. Regardless of your stance on this issue, there is not 1 answer all tournament operators or players alike agree on.


We're not talking about the definition of pump, someone tried to call the phantom revolution a semi with a pump. That is, in fact, dumb.
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#28 get.lit.up!

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:51 AM

Well lets spin it this way. I go buy a cyclone feed for a tippmann 98c, install it without the air hose attached. Will I effectively have a semi but have to pump it to load the ball into the breech?

Think carefully drg
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#29 drg

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:28 PM

Well lets spin it this way. I go buy a cyclone feed for a tippmann 98c, install it without the air hose attached. Will I effectively have a semi but have to pump it to load the ball into the breech?

Think carefully drg


What are you talking about? If a marker does not automatically load, it is not operating semiautomatically. Furthermore if it is incapable of semiautomatic operation, as this gun is, it is NOT A SEMIAUTOMATIC GUN. Don't think carefully, you don't have to. It's black and white.

Edited by drg, 05 October 2012 - 08:29 PM.

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#30 Pump Player

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

Everyone stop argueing. Who cares if it was raised by a dm 12 and a ccm, that sounds awesome too me and if I had 700 I would buy one

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#31 drg

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:44 PM

Everyone stop argueing. Who cares if it was raised by a dm 12 and a ccm, that sounds awesome too me and if I had 700 I would buy one


Who's arguing? There's nothing to argue.
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#32 The-Phantom

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

*sighs* :unsure:

/enoughflamewar

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#33 bassfisher

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:54 PM

*sighs* :unsure:

/enoughflamewar



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#34 drg

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

Sorry. It just really gets me when I see pump players hate. Hating should not be part of the pump ethic.
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#35 o-baller

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:32 PM



Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

Sure it's different, but what I'm trying to get at is that a new valve system, pump handle and barrel sizers are going to automatically throw $300 onto it?


No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature. Its only worth it if you want it to be.



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#36 Pump Player

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

lol i started this so long ago. im suprised people are still posting in it

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#37 drg

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:40 PM

No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature.


Well that's not true at all.
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#38 The-Phantom

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:07 PM

Posted Image
Can prevent FORUM fires... /isthisflamingstillgoingon?

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#39 o-baller

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:41 PM

No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature.


Well that's not true at all.


You took my post out of context. My point was that any pump is inferior to any electro in terms of capability. BUT a $600 pump is definitely worth it to some people (I would put myself in that boat).

Either way, its unimportant

Edited by o-baller, 17 October 2012 - 11:41 PM.

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#40 Pump Player

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:24 AM

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#41 drg

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:49 AM

You took my post out of context. My point was that any pump is inferior to any electro in terms of capability.


It's in the context you provided. Still depends on the pump, the electro and the capability. Of course what a gun can and can't do often has little to do with its valuation.

Edited by drg, 18 October 2012 - 01:50 AM.

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#42 Pump Player

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:34 PM

You took my post out of context. My point was that any pump is inferior to any electro in terms of capability.

actually thats not completely true, a broken electric that is leaking isnt superior to a ccm

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#43 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:19 AM

No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature.


Well that's not true at all.

Technically and objectively it is. Pumps can't fire as fast, don,t have a board or eyes, the trigger is harder to pull, and as far as maintenance both are pretty idiot proof.
How a pump feels and how it makes u feel, I think all of us can agree, is better than any electro out there.
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#44 drg

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:58 PM


No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature.


Well that's not true at all.

Technically and objectively it is. Pumps can't fire as fast, don,t have a board or eyes, the trigger is harder to pull, and as far as maintenance both are pretty idiot proof.
How a pump feels and how it makes u feel, I think all of us can agree, is better than any electro out there.


Again, depends on the pump and the electro, but also several, if not all of those things are of little relation to value. Draguns had boards. And speak for yourself that pump triggers are harder to pull -- not that it matters. I beg to differ very strongly that electro maintenance is anywhere near as idiotproof as mechanical pumps.
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#45 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:37 PM



No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature.


Well that's not true at all.

Technically and objectively it is. Pumps can't fire as fast, don,t have a board or eyes, the trigger is harder to pull, and as far as maintenance both are pretty idiot proof.
How a pump feels and how it makes u feel, I think all of us can agree, is better than any electro out there.


Again, depends on the pump and the electro, but also several, if not all of those things are of little relation to value. Draguns had boards. And speak for yourself that pump triggers are harder to pull -- not that it matters. I beg to differ very strongly that electro maintenance is anywhere near as idiotproof as mechanical pumps.

True. The main point the person above and I were making is there is no particular advantage over using a pump vs an electro in terms of accuracy range, and certainlying not fire rate. The thing that makes a pump worth 600 dollars is how Fun it is to play with. The technology is very basic, certainly not 600$ of tech in a ccm or the cci revolution

Edited by asthmaticrhino, 20 October 2012 - 03:38 PM.

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#46 drg

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:39 PM

True. The main point the person above and I were making is there is no particular advantage over using a pump vs an electro in terms of accuracy range, and certainlying not fire rate. The thing that makes a pump worth 600 dollars is how Fun it is to play with. The technology is very basic, certainly not 600$ of tech in a ccm or the cci revolution


Technology does not inherently have value, in many instances a lower-tech thing or process costs more than a high-tech process. One of the things about technology is that it can make things cheaper.
As for paintball guns specifically, quality of manufacture is a huge value point. For example the aforementioned Dragun vs CCM.
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#47 o-baller

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:05 AM

True. The main point the person above and I were making is there is no particular advantage over using a pump vs an electro in terms of accuracy range, and certainlying not fire rate. The thing that makes a pump worth 600 dollars is how Fun it is to play with. The technology is very basic, certainly not 600$ of tech in a ccm or the cci revolution


Technology does not inherently have value, in many instances a lower-tech thing or process costs more than a high-tech process. One of the things about technology is that it can make things cheaper.
As for paintball guns specifically, quality of manufacture is a huge value point. For example the aforementioned Dragun vs CCM.


My point is that a good player with an electro beats an equivalent player using a pump (barring mechanical failure) due to simple technological advantage (otherwise the army would still use muskets). The value of a pump marker is in the eyes of the beholder. And something that you glossed over is that CCM is overkill in terms of manufacturing quality... guns 1/3 of its price and of much lower quality perform equally as well. So I must ask why manufacturing quality is such a large issue to some?

anyhow, the main matter of this thread has been lost...
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#48 drg

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:03 AM


True. The main point the person above and I were making is there is no particular advantage over using a pump vs an electro in terms of accuracy range, and certainlying not fire rate. The thing that makes a pump worth 600 dollars is how Fun it is to play with. The technology is very basic, certainly not 600$ of tech in a ccm or the cci revolution


Technology does not inherently have value, in many instances a lower-tech thing or process costs more than a high-tech process. One of the things about technology is that it can make things cheaper.
As for paintball guns specifically, quality of manufacture is a huge value point. For example the aforementioned Dragun vs CCM.


My point is that a good player with an electro beats an equivalent player using a pump (barring mechanical failure) due to simple technological advantage (otherwise the army would still use muskets). The value of a pump marker is in the eyes of the beholder. And something that you glossed over is that CCM is overkill in terms of manufacturing quality... guns 1/3 of its price and of much lower quality perform equally as well. So I must ask why manufacturing quality is such a large issue to some?

anyhow, the main matter of this thread has been lost...


You are trying to make the case that certain aspects of a marker's operation are the only thing that affects its monetary value. That's not true. Whether it is an "issue" to anyone is irrelevant.

Oh and by the way, the army makes plenty of use of pump and bolt-action weapons today.

Edited by drg, 23 October 2012 - 03:12 AM.

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#49 o-baller

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:50 AM



True. The main point the person above and I were making is there is no particular advantage over using a pump vs an electro in terms of accuracy range, and certainlying not fire rate. The thing that makes a pump worth 600 dollars is how Fun it is to play with. The technology is very basic, certainly not 600$ of tech in a ccm or the cci revolution


Technology does not inherently have value, in many instances a lower-tech thing or process costs more than a high-tech process. One of the things about technology is that it can make things cheaper.
As for paintball guns specifically, quality of manufacture is a huge value point. For example the aforementioned Dragun vs CCM.


My point is that a good player with an electro beats an equivalent player using a pump (barring mechanical failure) due to simple technological advantage (otherwise the army would still use muskets). The value of a pump marker is in the eyes of the beholder. And something that you glossed over is that CCM is overkill in terms of manufacturing quality... guns 1/3 of its price and of much lower quality perform equally as well. So I must ask why manufacturing quality is such a large issue to some?

anyhow, the main matter of this thread has been lost...


You are trying to make the case that certain aspects of a marker's operation are the only thing that affects its monetary value. That's not true. Whether it is an "issue" to anyone is irrelevant.

Oh and by the way, the army makes plenty of use of pump and bolt-action weapons today.


You just said exactly what I did... I'm saying that a pump is worth it to anyone who values features other than technology and ROF. But when considering how good a gun is a pump could never be considered good due to it being outclassed in all meaningful categories.

And to say that the bolt-actions that the army uses are equivalent to a pump in paintball is silly. They have range and accuracy advantage over normal guns, something a pump in paintball does not.
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#50 The-Phantom

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

The fact of the matter is that nothing really valid is coming out of either side of this argument for a few reasons

Paintball, being related to military or real fire arms should never be compared as far as style of weapons.. other then the fact that people call them "guns" which many paintballers are adament against doing anyways by calling them "markers" which, as a history lesson, they started out as. Markers, for marking things, not guns... now it is a competitive sport, and people will call them what ever they want~still, whether it be a musket, or bolt actions (or dare I even MENTION the word sniper) paintball guns in no way, shape or form can be fairly, or relevantly or accurately compared to true fire arms used by "the military" and other entities. End of story, so using that as any means for your side of this 'disagreement' are fairly irrelevant.

From what I understand, after reading through the entire thread, is this. There is a Disagreement on the value of markers (originating with the CCI Phantom Revolution and later expanding to include CCM models, and other expensive/$500+ pumps).

The first key point I noticed was O-Baller stated:




Not trying to hate, but is there anything new on the Revolution compared to the Phantom, besides the mini pump handle and new valve system? I know it comes with barrel sizers and a hopper adapter but honestly I don't see anything worth justifying $650+ on it. Is there something I'm missing or is all the rest of the money spent on it just for the looks?


erm... that's kind of a major change... That's similar to asking:

"so like whats the difference between like, a phantom and sniper other than that whole valve thing?"

Sure it's different, but what I'm trying to get at is that a new valve system, pump handle and barrel sizers are going to automatically throw $300 onto it?


No... its not. For that matter, no pump is, being that they are inferior to electros in every measurable feature. Its only worth it if you want it to be.


In context, I'd say it's fair to say this is the post that started this 'off topic' discussion within this thread, so stay with me now

It is an opinion, That can in no way be proven scientifically what is "better" for paintball

On a vice, all of the guns do indeed shoot the same accuracy. Semi's (being referred to as electros) will indeed shoot the same spread as pumps if they are both properly cleaned and maintained, and use same paint.

In doing this the 'electros' will shoot faster...

all of these things can be taken and accepted as nearly factual data... bryce and cockerpunk have empirically tested this to a great extent and found it to be true several times over

Now that is about as far as the "facts" for lack of a better or more accurate term (best known theory technically) go...

The rest of this discussion is merely an opinion. Using hypothetical examples that can and never will happen**, and out of context quotes, along with strictly opinion isn't going to advance anyone's knowledge on what the topic is... which is news about the phantom revolution. nearly all of this either has nothing to do with the topic, or is so loosely hanging on to some idea from the first page or so of the thread, it's became little more then bickering back and fourth, and more of a pissing match or ego driven battle of keyboard warriors.

If you want to continue to duke it out, feel free to, have PM's back and fourth til your hands cramp up from rage typing than that's your prerogative. But I think at this point it is fairly clear that none of the three parties (O-Baller, DRG, and AsthmaticRhino) are going to have their OPINIONS changed by some "argument" or nearly insulting posts to their knowledge on a subject.

** Suggesting things such as "A Player of "EQUAL SKILL" (or any interchangeable way of saying same talent in paintball level) who is using an electro (or any semi for that matter, anything superior in fire rate to a pump) Versus, A Player of the "SAME SKILL LEVEL" who is using a pump, than the player using the electro will win every time" or will 'generally win' or any of those statements is completely unscientific. Due to the fact, to my knowledge we are unable to have clones of people that are exactly even, because this would be scientifically the only true representation of "equal or same skill level". If there were equal skill people out there, which I believe it is impossible to say, because there are too many factors that go into evaluating ones skill as a paintball player, than if those two people played 100 times with semi's, one would win exactly 50, and the other would win exactly 50. Or they would be on a team and get the same number of eliminations each game. It is too much of an unpredictable fast paced sport that only takes 1 shot in most styles of play to earn an elimination. So the fact is, I or you could be way better than someone, but sometimes we'll have a bad game, and get shot out by them, or lose one on one to them by "fluke" or "luck" or we have a "bad game/bad day/off day" and they have a "good game/good day/on game". The same applies for if we are on the same team or against each other. Naturally one player is going to get more eliminations than another, or survive longer, or grab more flags, and this will vary greatly the more games played. It is an unfair and completely non-scientific statement to make arguments using terms like the ones outlined in purple. And I see this used a lot... I'm sure if you dig into the depths of my posts, I've probably stated it some where along the lines in the past possibly before this realization came to me, but I feel that not only (O-Baller) I'm not trying to pick on you, or any of you three, but many people use this and find it as a good reason or argument for why things are "better" when it is truly an unfair comparison or reasoning in general for anything


TL:DR? well f#@% it at least I tried.

PS: I'm surprised no one said "pumps are lighter" in counter to the fact that they are inferior in every single way... but that's just more fuel to a fire I'd like to see no longer burning up a perfectly decent and legitimate thread

Edited by The-Phantom, 23 October 2012 - 06:09 PM.

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