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#1 bassfisher

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:03 PM

Has punkworks ever done a test on rechargeable 9 volts and AAs? If so, how do they stack up?
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#2 newwestswag

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:22 PM

rechargable batteries suck just don't buy them.

#3 drg

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:44 PM

rechargable batteries suck just don't buy them.


Couldn't be more wrong.

OP: What exactly do you want tested?
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#4 Egomaniacal

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:08 AM


rechargable batteries suck just don't buy them.


Couldn't be more wrong.

OP: What exactly do you want tested?


Actually, he has a point.

If a marker isn't designed to run off of rechargeable batteries, they can pose a problem. The reason for this is that the typical rechargeable designed to replace an equivalent alkaline has a lower voltage at full charge than the equivalent fresh alkaline. In addition, they can have a higher internal resistance which means they're worse for high-draw applications.

That said, if the marker/board is designed to account for this, they can be nice.
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#5 cockerpunk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:34 AM

no we have not testing batteries. its an easy one to test though, if you like to take a whack at it. measure the resistance of the board in your gun while its firing, and build a resistor pack that is the same value. then wire it to a lot of different batteries and observe!
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#6 drg

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:48 AM



rechargable batteries suck just don't buy them.


Couldn't be more wrong.

OP: What exactly do you want tested?


Actually, he has a point.

If a marker isn't designed to run off of rechargeable batteries, they can pose a problem. The reason for this is that the typical rechargeable designed to replace an equivalent alkaline has a lower voltage at full charge than the equivalent fresh alkaline. In addition, they can have a higher internal resistance which means they're worse for high-draw applications.

That said, if the marker/board is designed to account for this, they can be nice.


No, he does not have a point. Look what he wrote, he said all rechargeable batteries suck and no one should buy them for paintball applications. There is no qualification or shade of meaning there. That is flat out wrong.

Appropriate rechargeables can be used for most if not all paintball applications, and they absolutely do not suck.
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#7 Egomaniacal

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:20 AM




rechargable batteries suck just don't buy them.


Couldn't be more wrong.

OP: What exactly do you want tested?


Actually, he has a point.

If a marker isn't designed to run off of rechargeable batteries, they can pose a problem. The reason for this is that the typical rechargeable designed to replace an equivalent alkaline has a lower voltage at full charge than the equivalent fresh alkaline. In addition, they can have a higher internal resistance which means they're worse for high-draw applications.

That said, if the marker/board is designed to account for this, they can be nice.


Appropriate rechargeables can be used for most if not all paintball applications, and they absolutely do not suck.


And now you have added the qualifier "appropriate". Interesting.
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#8 Troy

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

And now you have added the qualifier "appropriate". Interesting.


Tautology alert!

Appropriate batteries are appropriate!
\m/

#9 drg

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:14 AM





rechargable batteries suck just don't buy them.


Couldn't be more wrong.

OP: What exactly do you want tested?


Actually, he has a point.

If a marker isn't designed to run off of rechargeable batteries, they can pose a problem. The reason for this is that the typical rechargeable designed to replace an equivalent alkaline has a lower voltage at full charge than the equivalent fresh alkaline. In addition, they can have a higher internal resistance which means they're worse for high-draw applications.

That said, if the marker/board is designed to account for this, they can be nice.


Appropriate rechargeables can be used for most if not all paintball applications, and they absolutely do not suck.


And now you have added the qualifier "appropriate". Interesting.


Meaningless nitpick that does nothing to change the incorrectness of the original statement.

Bottom line is I use rechargeables in every gun and ever hopper I own, and have lent them to others to use in their equipment, successfully as well. So the statement is demonstrably false and empirically rejected.

Edited by drg, 19 September 2012 - 12:16 AM.

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#10 Troy

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:10 AM

Meaningless nitpick that does nothing to change the incorrectness of the original statement.

Bottom line is I use rechargeables in every gun and ever hopper I own, and have lent them to others to use in their equipment, successfully as well. So the statement is demonstrably false and empirically rejected.


So says the guy who nitpicks the syntax of everyone else on this forum.... :lol:

I'm just going to point out the blatantly obvious here: according to your sig, at least, you're kinda into pumps. Apart from an objective test, who am I going to trust for advice on which battery to put in my high end electro, the guy that flaunts his pump experience, or someone with more experience with the kinds of markers I shoot?
\m/

#11 cockerpunk

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:01 AM

kkk, calm down guys
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#12 UV Halo

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:40 PM

I noticed 'appropriate' earlier I chose not to comment because I could see a couple reasons for that qualifier- At the simplest, he could have meant LiPo vs NiMH vs NiCad, or even voltage.

Because NiMH cells (the individual cells within 9V, AA, or AAA batteries) output 1.2v, there is no multiple that will output 9V. Most NiMH 9v rechargeables actually put out 8.4v. Well, I can't remember clearly but, I believe the APE Rampage board in my Ion didn't like the low starting voltage. So, ultimately, I started using the shorter mAh, 9.6V NiMh batteries from Powerex, which worked fine for me since I always charged them after a day of play. But, when I upgraded to the Virtue OLED, those Powerex batteries caused the board to act all sorts of wonky (just in navigating the menus). So, I switched back to the 8.4V NiMh batteries and had no further problems. Sure, I could point a finger and blame Virtue for not having any form of voltage regulation in their board but, I'm pretty sure they would come right back and say "use alkaline".

#13 drg

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:07 AM

I'm just going to point out the blatantly obvious here: according to your sig, at least, you're kinda into pumps. Apart from an objective test, who am I going to trust for advice on which battery to put in my high end electro, the guy that flaunts his pump experience, or someone with more experience with the kinds of markers I shoot?


Maybe I use batteries in my pumps?

Edited by drg, 20 September 2012 - 04:08 AM.

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#14 Troy

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:52 AM

I'm just going to point out the blatantly obvious here: according to your sig, at least, you're kinda into pumps. Apart from an objective test, who am I going to trust for advice on which battery to put in my high end electro, the guy that flaunts his pump experience, or someone with more experience with the kinds of markers I shoot?


Maybe I use batteries in my pumps?


Like I mentioned earlier, I don't think that experience is equivalent to some of the previous poster's experience. When someone asks "are batteries good in my electro" 99 times out of a 100, they aren't talking about a pump. Besides the shear number of shots, one big difference is in the noid. I'm not sure what kind of board you have, but in my APE rampage board for my Tippmann, it has to operate a pancake noid (which I suspect is what you have... unless you have a MQ'ed valved sniper), and has a big capacitor that it fills to fire. You would be surprised how far I can shoot into a battery that has hardly any juice left (as long as I limit my rate of fire). Now on my high ends, like my PM/DM/Alias they use no such system (in fact I've never seen a high end use a capacitor like that), and they are, definitely, way more touchy about battery voltage then my APE board is.

I won't say that pancake noids are edge cases, primarily, because Tippmanns, BTs and Spiders use them, but the way you play with those markers differs remarkably from the way you play with a pump (ever try ramping with a pump?), therefore, I still don't think that conclusions you've made by playing benefit the majority of the people that are asking the question.

I'm, definitely, going to agree with Halo on this, the appropriateness of rechargeable batteries depends on how the board is wired, but also depends on the ROF, in some cases, that is sustained while playing.
\m/

#15 bassfisher

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

I think I'll just stick with regular batteries
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#16 drg

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:31 AM


I'm just going to point out the blatantly obvious here: according to your sig, at least, you're kinda into pumps. Apart from an objective test, who am I going to trust for advice on which battery to put in my high end electro, the guy that flaunts his pump experience, or someone with more experience with the kinds of markers I shoot?


Maybe I use batteries in my pumps?


Like I mentioned earlier, I don't think that experience is equivalent to some of the previous poster's experience. When someone asks "are batteries good in my electro" 99 times out of a 100, they aren't talking about a pump. Besides the shear number of shots, one big difference is in the noid. I'm not sure what kind of board you have, but in my APE rampage board for my Tippmann, it has to operate a pancake noid (which I suspect is what you have... unless you have a MQ'ed valved sniper), and has a big capacitor that it fills to fire. You would be surprised how far I can shoot into a battery that has hardly any juice left (as long as I limit my rate of fire). Now on my high ends, like my PM/DM/Alias they use no such system (in fact I've never seen a high end use a capacitor like that), and they are, definitely, way more touchy about battery voltage then my APE board is.

I won't say that pancake noids are edge cases, primarily, because Tippmanns, BTs and Spiders use them, but the way you play with those markers differs remarkably from the way you play with a pump (ever try ramping with a pump?), therefore, I still don't think that conclusions you've made by playing benefit the majority of the people that are asking the question.

I'm, definitely, going to agree with Halo on this, the appropriateness of rechargeable batteries depends on how the board is wired, but also depends on the ROF, in some cases, that is sustained while playing.


Just because I use pumps now after more than 20 years of playing doesn't mean I don't have plenty of experience shooting semis at far higher ROFs than are even allowed on most fields, let alone what players see today in terms of ROF caps. And that means powering both markers and hoppers with rechargeable batteries. You're the one that brought up pumps anyway, and yes I actually have ramped a pump. The bottom line is there are many, many paintball applications for which recahrgeable batteries are perfectly suitable and save players an assload of cash over buying disposable batteries all the time.

I honestly can't believe this many people are willing to hand out bad information based on who said correct information first. Kind of sad, and definitely has no place in a supposed scientifically focused forum.

I think I'll just stick with regular batteries


Your loss.

Edited by drg, 21 September 2012 - 05:38 AM.

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#17 plan_b

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:39 AM

heres an old experiment i read before i bought my rechargeable's. its an old article, but its got some good information in it.

fwiw, i have used some 9.6v 280mAh off of eBay and a Powerex charger for the past year and a half on a bunch of gear. worked great in the autococker sr, ego8, and dp g3iq. i also used it on a reloader 2, revolution, and pinokio. and for the past year, i have been tracking the voltage drain from a fresh charge before a game/scenario till i am done for the day. hopefully i can access that information from my broken cell phone.

#18 Danny D

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 03:37 PM

I second with uvhalo here.

I've been using 9.6 v powerex for years, and similarly with virtue OLED boards, needed the 8.6. No biggie. These batteries won't fry your boards. Heck regular alkalines will regularly peak above 10 volts while outputting power.

Saves me a tonne on cash. I highly recommend it. I have 4 of them and haven't had to recharge them yet this year. Been counting and went through 20 cases so far and still have a full battery and a half to go.

#19 OEFVeteran

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:25 AM

i use the Energy Paintball batteries that PE puts in their guns form the factory... i dont like rechargeables on the basis that i always forget to recharge them... as far as regular batteries go, last season when i was playing 3-4 times a week, shooting a minimum of 2 cases a day (started mid summer after returning home from kuwait), i just recently replaced the factory battery in my ego11 last moth for a scenario...

someone at my field, wish i was still in touch with him, was an electrical engineer major in college... for one of his thesis papers/projects he did a voltage draw test on rechargeable and non rechargeable batteries, and he found that the paintball energy batteries had the most consistent energy draw, even at the end of their life... if i had the data to post, i would, so you will just have to take it for what it is...
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#20 brycelarson

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:42 AM

ok, standard PunkWorks warning - lets get some data in here. So far we have a lot of opinions but so far this thread might as well be in the equipment opinion section.

#21 drg

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:10 AM

ok, standard PunkWorks warning - lets get some data in here. So far we have a lot of opinions but so far this thread might as well be in the equipment opinion section.


Saying that I personally have successfully used rechargeable batteries in all possible equipment I have and in all situations I have faced is not an opinion.
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#22 Troy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:05 PM


ok, standard PunkWorks warning - lets get some data in here. So far we have a lot of opinions but so far this thread might as well be in the equipment opinion section.


Saying that I personally have successfully used rechargeable batteries in all possible equipment I have and in all situations I have faced is not an opinion.


Seriously? What do you expect us to do with that vague, experiential, claim?

Please, at least, provide the following info:
1) Markers used
2) Rechargeable batteries used
3) ROF tested at
(I would prefer chrono data at various charge levels to prove the marker was cycling properly, but I suspect you don't have that data for all the markers you've shot)
\m/

#23 -Taz-

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:53 PM


ok, standard PunkWorks warning - lets get some data in here. So far we have a lot of opinions but so far this thread might as well be in the equipment opinion section.


Saying that I personally have successfully used rechargeable batteries in all possible equipment I have and in all situations I have faced is not an opinion.


Looky at what I found:
Opinion:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
This says what you're saying is an Opinion and NOT a fact.
Do test, Get Data, ???, Profit


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#24 drg

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:22 PM



ok, standard PunkWorks warning - lets get some data in here. So far we have a lot of opinions but so far this thread might as well be in the equipment opinion section.


Saying that I personally have successfully used rechargeable batteries in all possible equipment I have and in all situations I have faced is not an opinion.


Looky at what I found:
Opinion:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
This says what you're saying is an Opinion and NOT a fact.
Do test, Get Data, ???, Profit


Also, I have miss you Punkworks. I don't know why I don't come in here more :D


It is a 100% certainty that I have successfully used rechargeable batteries in my equipment for years. There is nothing vague about this. This is directly addressing the claim in post #2 and it definitively provides enough data to completely address the post. I asked the OP for clarification on what he wanted tested but he never answered.

Edited by drg, 23 September 2012 - 10:24 PM.

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#25 cockerpunk

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:30 AM

alright this is dumb.

closing this up until someone has something productive to say.
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