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Bore accuracy test (again)


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#1 brycelarson

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:54 AM

https://docs.google....cW1yWlVpRDVKMnc

once again we shoot multiple bore sizes - and yes, underboring too much makes things shoot crappy.

Edited by brycelarson, 23 September 2012 - 05:35 PM.


#2 rntlee

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:02 PM

Well, as this is a rabbit trail I think I caused, I guess I better comment. :)

I think Bryce, the point you're making here is this: A high degree of under-boring is a know cause of aberrant accuracy, and this aberration is present in the test you just completed with the somewhat poor marbs. Therefore, paint grade doesn't actually obscure barrel-induced effects.

I agree to a point. A high degree of under-bore will add obscene amounts of spin to the paintballs...this is the cause of the increased shot spread, of course. From my own testing, these are the conclusions i have come to regarding shot spread:
The two largest forces affecting shot spread are paintball surface-induced asymmetric boundary layer separation, and spin-induced asymmetric boundary layer separation. These two forces both act on the balls during flight to the target, but the total increase in shot spread isn't an aggregate of the two forces. They interact in a more complex way. The surface-induced forces are generally much larger than spin-induced forces (excepting very high rates of spin), and lower rates of spin-induced forces CAN be almost "absorbed" (for lack of a better word) into the surface-induced forces. I noted this during my short obsession with patching paint. Patched paint from a smooth-bore only shoots tighter groups if the paint is free of surface imperfections. Poorer paint will shoot similar groupings whether patched or not. I have also documented (controversially :) ) incremental increases in shot spread correlating to bore size that Punkworks hasn't replicated in your own testing. Perhaps it's my obsession with using only the best performing paint I can obtain, idk.

Anyway, these differences aren't apparent with anything other than high performing paintballs. What do I mean by high performing? I've shot dozens of tests myself, and I have a benchmark that I apply to the paint I use. I have to be able to shoot a 5" vector at 80' with it for me to bother completing a test with it. Tests are a lot of work and I just don't want to loose any possible subtle results. I'm a bit obsessive that way. I don't have a lot of 100' data, but I'd guess that good paint should shoot a vector of no more than 7"-9" at that distance. There's considerable "noise" to sift out if your paint is delivering 14" vectors.

Nevertheless, the possible muzzle effects that the new barrel was designed to mitigate are much subtler than the surface-induced forces poor paint can generate. Why not eliminate as much noise as you can?

#3 Troy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:47 PM

https://docs.google....cW1yWlVpRDVKMnc

once again we shoot multiple bore sizes - and yes, underboring too much makes things shoot crappy.


What kind of marker was this on? Just interested in whether these observed effects were on a poppet or a spool valve marker, that's all.
\m/

#4 Troy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:06 PM

A high degree of under-bore will add obscene amounts of spin to the paintballs.


I'm wondering how you reached this conclusion. Is it your theory that because the SD of the velocity is so similar to other bores that speed fluctuations couldn't account for the added decrease in accuracy, alone, so the only thing left for it to be is some kind of induced spin? Or is there high speed camera footage out there somewhere showing an increased amount of spin from an underbore?

I think you have a reasonable hypothesis (and I can't come up with a better one), but I would like to see a bit more evidence before I conclude that spin is the culprit. Of course, I could just be ill-informed... if there is some other data that you are drawing from I would be happy to revise my beliefs.

Perhaps we can get PW to get some high speed footage of the ball coming out of an extreme under bore to confirm?
\m/

#5 drg

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:33 PM


A high degree of under-bore will add obscene amounts of spin to the paintballs.


I'm wondering how you reached this conclusion. Is it your theory that because the SD of the velocity is so similar to other bores that speed fluctuations couldn't account for the added decrease in accuracy, alone, so the only thing left for it to be is some kind of induced spin? Or is there high speed camera footage out there somewhere showing an increased amount of spin from an underbore?

I think you have a reasonable hypothesis (and I can't come up with a better one), but I would like to see a bit more evidence before I conclude that spin is the culprit. Of course, I could just be ill-informed... if there is some other data that you are drawing from I would be happy to revise my beliefs.

Perhaps we can get PW to get some high speed footage of the ball coming out of an extreme under bore to confirm?


I believe they already did this and published some spin numbers.
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#6 Troy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:03 AM



A high degree of under-bore will add obscene amounts of spin to the paintballs.


I'm wondering how you reached this conclusion. Is it your theory that because the SD of the velocity is so similar to other bores that speed fluctuations couldn't account for the added decrease in accuracy, alone, so the only thing left for it to be is some kind of induced spin? Or is there high speed camera footage out there somewhere showing an increased amount of spin from an underbore?

I think you have a reasonable hypothesis (and I can't come up with a better one), but I would like to see a bit more evidence before I conclude that spin is the culprit. Of course, I could just be ill-informed... if there is some other data that you are drawing from I would be happy to revise my beliefs.

Perhaps we can get PW to get some high speed footage of the ball coming out of an extreme under bore to confirm?


I believe they already did this and published some spin numbers.


I know they did it for the Apex, and some of the back spin bolts, but I'm not aware of a severely underbored barrel that they've tested in the same manner. Like I said though, I could be missing something.
\m/

#7 brycelarson

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:07 AM

I believe they already did this and published some spin numbers.


Correct. All barrels produce some spin in a random direction at lower RPM. Heavily underbored barrels (.007+) produce a much higher rate of spin - also in random directions. The random spin direction most certainly plays a part in the inherent inaccuracy of paint.

And yes, Lee - I think you're smart to really dig into paint quality and control that for your tests. We simply made a methodology choice long ago that the results of our tests needed to be applicable to everyday play. In this case we shot the field paint at the largest indoor facility (actually three facilities withing a couple of months) in the area. This is the paint that %75 of the people playing during the winter here are going to be shooting. We have never discounted that some systems might have certain effects with a very highly selected paint - we just have chosen not to do that for our tests.

It was a BL Protege (poppet)

We actually had a certain manufacturer tell us that in order to really see how well their product worked we needed to hand measure and sort the paint then only use balls that were +/- .002 and as round as possible. We simply refused. Until I can buy that paint by the bag then the product has no effective benefit to me.

#8 Troy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:18 AM

Heavily underbored barrels (.007+) produce a much higher rate of spin - also in random directions.


Awesome, but how do we know this? Not trying to be a PITA, but I, don't remember there being a test that confirmed this.
\m/

#9 brycelarson

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:24 AM


Heavily underbored barrels (.007+) produce a much higher rate of spin - also in random directions.


Awesome, but how do we know this? Not trying to be a PITA, but I, don't remember there being a test that confirmed this.


sorry - forgot to mention that. We used HS video.

http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=39

Edited by brycelarson, 24 September 2012 - 07:25 AM.


#10 Troy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 09:18 AM



Heavily underbored barrels (.007+) produce a much higher rate of spin - also in random directions.


Awesome, but how do we know this? Not trying to be a PITA, but I, don't remember there being a test that confirmed this.


sorry - forgot to mention that. We used HS video.

http://www.punkworks...x.php?p=7&id=39


Excellent, thanks. The data from that video meshes nicely with the data from this test, showing ~.03 underbore being the best.

Edited by Troy, 24 September 2012 - 09:20 AM.

\m/

#11 cockerpunk

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 09:33 AM

yeah, i think we need to look back at sabots again. between this and the 'cuda testing, i think it shows that spin, combined with minor aerodynamic imperfections is the really the fundamental problem with accuracy. in that with no spin, even a relatively poor aerodynamic ball can shoot reasonably straight, or even with a nominal amount of spin, a near perfect ball can fly reasonably straight.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#12 cockerpunk

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:08 AM

i also like this test because we actually did prove something. unlike every other accuracy test that basically comes up "no difference" here we actually saw a real difference, if a bad difference.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#13 Snipez4664

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:39 AM

yeah, i think we need to look back at sabots again. between this and the 'cuda testing, i think it shows that spin, combined with minor aerodynamic imperfections is the really the fundamental problem with accuracy. in that with no spin, even a relatively poor aerodynamic ball can shoot reasonably straight, or even with a nominal amount of spin, a near perfect ball can fly reasonably straight.

must figure out where that spin come from

Working hypothesis was sabot improvement real

If sabot real, seem most likely mitigates muzzle effects


possible with fixed barrel?

constrain ball while assuring all air vented

CFD barrel tip, where turbulent zone

ensure max turbulence inside fluting

try shoot barrel now








faulty line of logic maybe in bold.

sabot prevent interaction with walls, simulate type air bearing? like rntlee see in overbore accuracy?

Back to tom kaye and foot powder

more things change more things remain
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#14 cockerpunk

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

yeah i agree that is the flaw in the logic. i think the 'cuda testing pounds a pretty hefty nail in the coffin of muzzle effects. or at least muzzle effects that design can solve. i certainly can't think of much that wasn't done to the muzzle of that barrel.

so that, combined with this test that confirms out earlier hypothesis about spin an accuracy in extreme underbores, points back at sabots reducing spin.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#15 Snipez4664

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:51 PM

disagree

would need to use sabot'd paint as control, on any given paint quality, to test elimination of initial effects (spin, trajectory)

If sabot not make improvement with given paint quality, test cannot reach conclusions




agree that spin, rather than initial trajectory is problem

but not useful statement for design

where spin come from

how sabots stopping it
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#16 cockerpunk

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

i think we should repeat the sabot testing under high speed, using better paper towels (rntlees were solid, mine were disintegrating), to see if indeed spin is being killed in the first place.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#17 Snipez4664

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:04 PM

very interesting test, agree.

can make conclusions with both good and bad paint

rntlee, were the sabots folded around sides of balls to prevent bore contact?

I think not enough clearance for that
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#18 spankopotomous=paintball

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:05 PM

disagree

would need to use sabot'd paint as control, on any given paint quality, to test elimination of initial effects (spin, trajectory)

If sabot not make improvement with given paint quality, test cannot reach conclusions




agree that spin, rather than initial trajectory is problem

but not useful statement for design

where spin come from

how sabots stopping it


Ug


Snipez must be working or on phone

Type like caveman

Ug

He go club woman for snu snu now

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#19 Troy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 03:58 PM

^^^That's funny. :D

Btw, I wanted to throw out some random speculation...

If we think that barrel induced spin is a cause of inaccuracy, do you think this could be the reason that I saw an INCREASE in accuracy in paint that was slightly oblong in my test? I'm thinking if the paint "found a home" in the barrel with the minor axis perpendicular to the barrel, the underbore could have prevented it from spinning in the barrel.

Edited by Troy, 24 September 2012 - 03:59 PM.

\m/

#20 cockerpunk

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 04:10 PM

^^^That's funny. :D

Btw, I wanted to throw out some random speculation...

If we think that barrel induced spin is a cause of inaccuracy, do you think this could be the reason that I saw an INCREASE in accuracy in paint that was slightly oblong in my test? I'm thinking if the paint "found a home" in the barrel with the minor axis perpendicular to the barrel, the underbore could have prevented it from spinning in the barrel.


yeah, that is my thoughts as well.

but as an increase in useable accuracy, i don't think we have seen that in any testing.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#21 Troy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 04:20 PM


^^^That's funny. :D

Btw, I wanted to throw out some random speculation...

If we think that barrel induced spin is a cause of inaccuracy, do you think this could be the reason that I saw an INCREASE in accuracy in paint that was slightly oblong in my test? I'm thinking if the paint "found a home" in the barrel with the minor axis perpendicular to the barrel, the underbore could have prevented it from spinning in the barrel.


yeah, that is my thoughts as well.

but as an increase in useable accuracy, i don't think we have seen that in any testing.


At 30 feet I was able to observe significant correlation between the accuracy of a paintball and it's off axis diameter... so, I've seen that in testing (and with poor-mid grade paint :D). I have no reason to believe that this effect will be anything but more pronounced at longer ranges.
\m/

#22 rntlee

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:31 PM

...rntlee, were the sabots folded around sides of balls to prevent bore contact?...


Yes, the balls are intentionally isolated from the barrel sides.
You can see my method in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ei7TExgCU




#23 drg

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:20 PM

I know it's another can of worms, and you may have discussed this before, but would reballs be a more consistent projectile for this kind of testing?
How does a reball seam compared to a high end paintball seam?
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#24 brycelarson

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:42 PM

I know it's another can of worms, and you may have discussed this before, but would reballs be a more consistent projectile for this kind of testing?
How does a reball seam compared to a high end paintball seam?


Reballs are an odd beast. The major problem I have with them is the surface finish. They're not slippery like paint.

Some batches are quite round and have great seams - some don't. Some are consistent in mass, some are all over the place.

We have considered it in the past on numerous occasions but just couldn't find a way to make it relevant to paintball shooting. It's a good thought - and it's possible that with the right product it would be viable, but up to this point we haven't found a way to make it work.

#25 Troy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:06 PM

Reballs are an odd beast. The major problem I have with them is the surface finish. They're not slippery like paint.

Some batches are quite round and have great seams - some don't. Some are consistent in mass, some are all over the place.

We have considered it in the past on numerous occasions but just couldn't find a way to make it relevant to paintball shooting. It's a good thought - and it's possible that with the right product it would be viable, but up to this point we haven't found a way to make it work.


I think that recording their final impact positions would be harder then a paintball as well... not impossible, but more complicated.

Didn't either Lurker or Spittlebug try out nylon ball bearings as well? I remember thinking that it was genius, but it being a spectacular fail.
\m/

#26 rntlee

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:55 PM

I tried them and they shot like boomerangs. Figured it was the surface finish so I polished them...still went every way but straight. Even patched they were awful. Made no sense, .6875" dia., within .001" round, weighed 3g...should shoot like a paintball, right? Still have some.

#27 cockerpunk

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:56 PM


I know it's another can of worms, and you may have discussed this before, but would reballs be a more consistent projectile for this kind of testing?
How does a reball seam compared to a high end paintball seam?


Reballs are an odd beast. The major problem I have with them is the surface finish. They're not slippery like paint.

Some batches are quite round and have great seams - some don't. Some are consistent in mass, some are all over the place.

We have considered it in the past on numerous occasions but just couldn't find a way to make it relevant to paintball shooting. It's a good thought - and it's possible that with the right product it would be viable, but up to this point we haven't found a way to make it work.


they worked great for just putting cycles on a gun. the however don't interact with the loader/breach/bolt/barrel in the same way paint tends to because they have an odd coating, and they rub off, and erode away.
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#28 upriver

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:49 PM

I've shot nylon balls before and found them to work extremely well. Just make sure you don't mix them up with real paint. The problem I had with mine is that I had to put them through my largest bore barrel, something like a .692. I bought mine to setup an auto reloading efficiency test rig.... but then got side tracked with other projects.


I tried them and they shot like boomerangs. Figured it was the surface finish so I polished them...still went every way but straight. Even patched they were awful. Made no sense, .6875" dia., within .001" round, weighed 3g...should shoot like a paintball, right? Still have some.



#29 rntlee

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 06:04 AM

I've shot nylon balls before and found them to work extremely well. Just make sure you don't mix them up with real paint. The problem I had with mine is that I had to put them through my largest bore barrel, something like a .692. I bought mine to setup an auto reloading efficiency test rig.... but then got side tracked with other projects.


I suppose that depends on your definition of extremely well. :)
At 80', they perform on par with white box paint. That's the best i could get out of them.




#30 Troy

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:37 AM

I suppose that depends on your definition of extremely well. :)
At 80', they perform on par with white box paint. That's the best i could get out of them.


I wonder if you could coat them with plastic dip if you could get better results.
\m/

#31 rntlee

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

Thought about trying to coat them with lacquer, but it just seemed like too much trouble when marbs already completely outperform them aerodynamically.
I had hoped they could demonstrate what a "perfect" paintball was capable of. I think TK had similar luck with them.

#32 Troy

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:58 AM

Thought about trying to coat them with lacquer, but it just seemed like too much trouble when marbs already completely outperform them aerodynamically.
I had hoped they could demonstrate what a "perfect" paintball was capable of. I think TK had similar luck with them.


I, already, have my suspicions that the durometer of the shell, probably, effects how well the ball seals and how much spin is imposed on it coming out of the barrel... this may be an interesting test, especially, if I can come up with different materials to coat them with.
\m/

#33 Snipez4664

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:03 PM

Nylon shoots bad is another data point... Makes sense to me from a spin mitigation standpoint at least with underbore... Not sure why they'd shoot as poorly with over bore, but maybe they rattle harder
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#34 rntlee

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 06:35 PM

I think it's more to do with the surface finish...patching doesn't help them either.

#35 Rotozip2

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:33 PM

We actually had a certain manufacturer tell us that in order to really see how well their product worked we needed to hand measure and sort the paint then only use balls that were +/- .002 and as round as possible. We simply refused. Until I can buy that paint by the bag then the product has no effective benefit to me.


That is laughable that they asked you to do that.

I never get wipers, blood is hard to wipe off.


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#36 TheGuy

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:49 PM


We actually had a certain manufacturer tell us that in order to really see how well their product worked we needed to hand measure and sort the paint then only use balls that were +/- .002 and as round as possible. We simply refused. Until I can buy that paint by the bag then the product has no effective benefit to me.


That is laughable that they asked you to do that.


That is just sad actually. They obviously know their paint isn't great when they are telling you to sort out only the good ones for testing.
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#37 brycelarson

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:30 AM

That is just sad actually. They obviously know their paint isn't great when they are telling you to sort out only the good ones for testing.


It wasn't a paint manufacturer. It was a product manufacturer. It was the reason they gave for us not being able to match their claims.

#38 rntlee

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:44 PM

I think it's more to do with the surface finish...patching doesn't help them either.


Found an old pic I took of the surface of the nylon bearings, you can see what I mean:

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#39 Snipez4664

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:40 PM

Whoa, interesting...thanks for that!
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#40 2thdoc

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:09 AM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtqsF2x2K22odG9jVzZVX2szRzJrcW1yWlVpRDVKMnc

once again we shoot multiple bore sizes - and yes, underboring too much makes things shoot crappy.

Bryce, I have read the accuracy data regarding hammerhead (rifled) barrels. It seems that rifling had little effect on accuracy. It seems underboring which you have stated produces spin also reduces accuracy. Would it be a logical consequence to test for consistancy in the x and y axis rather than accuracy in the x and y axis... for all variables...( underboring vs rifling vs overboring) or has this already been done.

#41 2thdoc

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:14 AM


I know it's another can of worms, and you may have discussed this before, but would reballs be a more consistent projectile for this kind of testing?
How does a reball seam compared to a high end paintball seam?


Reballs are an odd beast. The major problem I have with them is the surface finish. They're not slippery like paint.

Some batches are quite round and have great seams - some don't. Some are consistent in mass, some are all over the place.

We have considered it in the past on numerous occasions but just couldn't find a way to make it relevant to paintball shooting. It's a good thought - and it's possible that with the right product it would be viable, but up to this point we haven't found a way to make it work.

would rifling have any effect on reballs?

#42 brycelarson

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:34 AM

Bryce, I have read the accuracy data regarding hammerhead (rifled) barrels. It seems that rifling had little effect on accuracy. It seems underboring which you have stated produces spin also reduces accuracy. Would it be a logical consequence to test for consistancy in the x and y axis rather than accuracy in the x and y axis... for all variables...( underboring vs rifling vs overboring) or has this already been done.


I'm not sure I understand the question. The vector calculation is based on the standard deviation for the x and y impact locations. This means that we are somewhat calculating consistency in the vector calculation. A smaller standard deviation would mean a tighter pattern - more consistent flight.

#43 Troy

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:47 PM



I know it's another can of worms, and you may have discussed this before, but would reballs be a more consistent projectile for this kind of testing?
How does a reball seam compared to a high end paintball seam?


Reballs are an odd beast. The major problem I have with them is the surface finish. They're not slippery like paint.

Some batches are quite round and have great seams - some don't. Some are consistent in mass, some are all over the place.

We have considered it in the past on numerous occasions but just couldn't find a way to make it relevant to paintball shooting. It's a good thought - and it's possible that with the right product it would be viable, but up to this point we haven't found a way to make it work.

would rifling have any effect on reballs?


You're on the right track... I hadn't thought of using rifling on reballs, but the problem is that the rifling on hammer head barrels is on the over bore section of the barrel, so the ball doesn't come into contact with the rifling, so it won't spin it.
\m/

#44 brycelarson

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:10 AM

You're on the right track... I hadn't thought of using rifling on reballs, but the problem is that the rifling on hammer head barrels is on the over bore section of the barrel, so the ball doesn't come into contact with the rifling, so it won't spin it.


yeah, and reballs are tiny - so they would have even less contact with the rifled portion of the barrel.

#45 Troy

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:31 PM


You're on the right track... I hadn't thought of using rifling on reballs, but the problem is that the rifling on hammer head barrels is on the over bore section of the barrel, so the ball doesn't come into contact with the rifling, so it won't spin it.


yeah, and reballs are tiny - so they would have even less contact with the rifled portion of the barrel.


I've seen people make reballs out of modeling clay... I wonder if you made a ball big enough, if you could put spin on it.
\m/

#46 brycelarson

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

The problem being with any of these tests is that while it may show what happens when clay or reballs spin - that doesn't necessarily relate to paintballs.

rntlee has shown that surface finish of the ball and seam finish both seem to effect accuracy. I would have to imaging that if gelatin variations matter - then gelatin to clay is going to matter even more.

Unless you're testing on the projectile you intend to use in play tests get WAY more academic and WAS less useful.

#47 Troy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:38 AM

The problem being with any of these tests is that while it may show what happens when clay or reballs spin - that doesn't necessarily relate to paintballs.

rntlee has shown that surface finish of the ball and seam finish both seem to effect accuracy. I would have to imaging that if gelatin variations matter - then gelatin to clay is going to matter even more.

Unless you're testing on the projectile you intend to use in play tests get WAY more academic and WAS less useful.


I agree completely. It would be 100% academic. The point would be to see if under, absolute, ideal conditions, if spin could be imparted on a paintball, and if so whether or not it would, actually, help. For example, if we were to take a projectile and prove that the barrel put spin on it, but also prove that it didn't effect accuracy, we could, absolutely, call the concept dead.

I see it in the same light that Myth Busters does many of their experiments. They first test the myth under "normal" conditions, to see if it's true, then they test it under ideal conditions, if it still doesn't work, they call it busted (and blow it up).

Edited by Troy, 06 October 2012 - 05:39 AM.

\m/

#48 rntlee

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:32 AM

It's much easier to test than that. Simply patch regular paintballs in a rifled barrel.

#49 The Dad

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:24 AM


You're on the right track... I hadn't thought of using rifling on reballs, but the problem is that the rifling on hammer head barrels is on the over bore section of the barrel, so the ball doesn't come into contact with the rifling, so it won't spin it.


yeah, and reballs are tiny - so they would have even less contact with the rifled portion of the barrel.



#50 The Dad

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

I have been using a hammerhead barrel that is .084 and have found it to be more accurate than my .681, .678 smooth bores. Any ideas as to why?




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