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#1 kuzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:18 AM

Hi. I have been on this site for a couple months now and have learned allot about speedball type markers and the equipment to go with them. At the fields I go to their are allot of pump players and its making me want to learn more about that side of the sport.

1) Are there any other advantages to shooting a pump then having lighter equipment and not spending as much on paint.

2) Are pumps more accurate or shoot farther then speed ball markers such as Macedev clones or ego 11s?

3) Who still makes pump guns? I see that bob long has a new line of mvp victor pumps. Would those be the best on the market or are older pumps like autocoker better? I want a open class pump and don't have a problem spending allot seeing that I'm willing to spend 1200 on a speedball gun lol.

4) What kind of tank and hopper are best for pumps? Would a 68/4500 tank still be ideal and is a electric hopper like a rotor needed?

5) Maintenance: How much do pump guns need? More or less then speedball markers?


Thanks allot.

Edited by Kuzy, 04 October 2012 - 04:39 PM.


#2 HU Soldier

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:55 AM

1) I found that after playing pump for awhile you become more "alert" and "confident"

2) Nope all guns have the same accuracy and will shoot the same distance if set at 300fps

3) Bob Long, CCM, CCI phantom/revolution, Empire, and a few other small companies, also Cockers are great for open class and getting started

4) you skipped

5) alot of people i talk to prefer a 50/45 or a 13/3 k, depends on style and rotor isnt needed, try an old revy or a APP 50 rd

6) I clean my guns after everyday of play regardless how dirty

#3 Old Dude PB

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:08 AM

Hi. I have been on this site for a couple months now and have learned allot about speedball type markers and the equipment to go with them. At the fields I go to their are allot of pump players and its making me want to learn more about that side of the sport.

1) Are there any other advantages to shooting a pump then having lighter equipment and not spending as much on paint.
Many of the "advantages" to pump come from having to compensate for the disadvantages. Because you can't throw a lot of paint, you naturally focus on movement and communication more. Experienced pump players tend to be excellent snap shooters. Not having to deal with batteries is nice too.
2) Are pumps more accurate or shoot farther then speed ball markers such as Macedev clones or ego 11s?
No, but because every shot has to count, pump players tend to work on accuracy.
3) Who still makes pump guns? I see that bob long has a new line of mvp victor pumps. Would those be the best on the market or are older pumps like autocoker better? I want a open class pump and don't have a problem spending allot seeing that I'm willing to spend 1200 on a speedball gun lol.
Azodin also makes an inexpensive pumped Spyder clone called the Kaos Pump. Not a bad gun for the money. At the inexpensive end of the market, you're basically looking at buying a new Kaos Pump or building/buying a cocker pump. The CCM T2 and S6.5 are among the most popular high-end pumps. I love Bob Long's semi guns, but I think the MVP looks goofy. Personal preference, obviously.
5) What kind of tank and hopper are best for pumps? Would a 68/4500 tank still be ideal and is a electric hopper like a rotor needed?
The tank is personal preference. You can play all day or close to it on a 68/45 with a pump. Lots of people run electric hoppers on pumps, but they're not needed. You see a lot of Winchester pocket hoppers, APP 50s, and Sportshots (now sold as the Extreme Rage 100 Round.) My Winchester and 13/3 tank make for a really light setup.
6) Maintenance: How much do pump guns need? More or less then speedball markers?
Maybe slightly less, because there are no electronics to deal with and the markers tend to be pretty simple. But because every shot is so much more important, pumpers tend to keep their gear very clean, and worry more about paint quality.

Thanks allot.


Edited by Old Dude PB, 04 October 2012 - 07:15 AM.


#4 slinkyaroo

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:14 AM

Pump play is just a different style of play. No running and gunning.

Air system usually depends on what type of pump set up you want. Stock or open class.

Maintenance is easy. Just a couple drops of oil.

#5 kuzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:08 PM

Thanks allot for the reply's guys.

1) Where do you recommend buying pump guns from? ansgear.com only has the new bob long mvp pumps and empire sniper pump guns.

2) I think for a pump gun I would want one with no regulator. Seeing that having a light setup is one of the perks of shooting a pump I'd want one with the least amount of bells and whistles. What do you recommend?

3) - I heard that stock pump guns are not allowed on some fields because the owners do not want to deal with the disposable tanks. True?
- Can any open pump gun be made into a stock and vice versa? Not really sure what makes a pump gun "stock"

4) Whats the best tippman pump gun. Only wondering because there are tippman events where I live and pump events and it would be nice to have a pump gun that can compete in both events.

Edited by Kuzy, 04 October 2012 - 05:40 PM.


#6 kingJurzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:27 PM

Thanks allot for the reply's guys.

1) Where do you recommend buying pump guns from? ansgear.com only has the new bob long mvp pumps and empire sniper pump guns.


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#7 drg

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

Pump play is just a different style of play. No running and gunning.


Actually there is plenty of running and gunning in pump play ...


Thanks allot for the reply's guys.

1) Where do you recommend buying pump guns from? ansgear.com only has the new bob long mvp pumps and empire sniper pump guns.

2) I think for a pump gun I would want one with no regulator. Seeing that having a light setup is one of the perks of shooting a pump I'd want one with the least amount of bells and whistles. What do you recommend?

3) - I heard that stock pump guns are not allowed on some fields because the owners do not want to deal with the disposable tanks. True?
- Can any open pump gun be made into a stock and vice versa? Not really sure what makes a pump gun "stock"

4) Whats the best tippman pump gun. Only wondering because there are tippman events where I live and pump events and it would be nice to have a pump gun that can compete in both events.


The light setup comes mostly from the smaller hopper and tank. The difference between open class with 13ci and 50 round hopper to stock class is not that much.

Some fields may indeed not want true stock class due to powerlets being left around on their field. In those cases you can probably play modified stock (small tanks).

Most pump guns can be configured for stock class but it's easier with the ones that have factory support for it such as the phantom. Stock class basically means horizontal feed tube mounted directly atop the barrel/body tube, and powered by 12g powerlets in a screw plug/bucket type changer. There are some other small rules as well but this is the basic definition of stock class.

For tippmann you're looking at the SL68-II.
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#8 kuzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:43 PM

Awesome thanks again.


SO whats the difference in pump guns? If all guns shoot just as far and accurate then what do I get for paying 600$ verses 200$ for a pump?

#9 kingJurzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Awesome thanks again.

SO whats the difference in pump guns? If all guns shoot just as far and accurate then what do I get for paying 600$ verses 200$ for a pump?

The more expensive pumps:

Auto Trigger
Smooth pump stroke
Shot quality
Efficiency
Brand Name


What made you think that markers have the same accuracy? You have not been lurking in the right spots if you believed that.


If a marker shoots 300 fps, then how will another marker that shoots at 300 fps shoot farther if it is under the same conditions as the first marker?

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#10 kuzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:51 PM

Well everyone telling me that markers have the same accuracy makes me think that. Plus this forum http://www.techpb.co...howtopic=152223 has 20 pages of people agreeing with that statement.

Not sure what you mean by your second question. I think we agree on the same thing. If all guns are set to 300fps, well maintenanced and shooting the same paint then the range will be the same for everyone.

#11 kingJurzy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:57 PM

I worded that wrong.


It should have said:

What made you think that markers have different accuracy? You have not been lurking in the right spots if you believed that.

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#12 kuzy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:09 AM

Yea figured. I know all guns have the same range and accuracy. It just makes me wonder then why is a ego twice as much as a axe and a machine vipor 50% more then a ego if the two most important things, accuracy and range never change. I'm using electronic markers as an example because I know more about them then pumps; however the same goes for pumps.

Is spending 1000$ really worth it when you can get a gun for 500$ or less that shoots just as accurate and far? Efficiency doesnt matter to me. I can get my tank filled after every round for free. So whats left? Shot consistency and reliability?

#13 kingJurzy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:12 AM

Yea figured. I know all guns have the same range and accuracy. It just makes me wonder then why is a ego twice as much as a axe and a machine vipor 50% more then a ego if the two most important things, accuracy and range never change. I'm using electronic markers as an example because I know more about them then pumps; however the same goes for pumps.

Is spending 1000$ really worth it when you can get a gun for 500$ or less that shoots just as accurate and far? Efficiency doesnt matter to me. I can get my tank filled after every round for free. So whats left? Shot consistency and reliability?


Here is the question, why does it matter. If you do not want to spend $1500 on a marker, then don't.

People like to pay for the bells and whistles, once you shoot a high end, you will understand why we pay so much for the new markers.

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#14 kuzy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:20 AM

It does not matter. I'm just curious.

#15 Old Dude PB

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:07 AM

It does not matter. I'm just curious.


The simplest answer is that there are a lot of people who have different selection criteria than you have. Some people want to shoot what pro players shoot, and most pros shoot high end markers. Other people simply want high end. The high price is actually a feature. They want to feel special, exclusive, advanced, expert, envied, you name it. They don't want to have to listen to the nagging voice in their heads saying "you could have something better." It's part of their self-image.

Why does a fleece jacket cost 300% more retail when it has a North Face logo on it? Why do fly fishermen pay ten times more for a split cane bamboo fly rod that in every measurable way under-performs even low end graphite rods? Why do some people buy a new car every two years? Hell, why do some people collect paintball guns, if functionally, they all do the same thing, more or less? People are different.

#16 kuzy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:11 PM

Fair enough.

#17 Pump Player

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

100-200 empire trracer, kaos pump, trilly
200-300 used cocker, phantom
300-400 phantom with bells and whistles, used ccm, used sm1, used empire sniper
400-500 empire sniper, sm1, used t2
500-600 very basic ccm from e paintball
600-700 ccm, MVP, phantom revolution
700-800 ccm with tons of add ons and colours

Edited by Pump Player, 07 October 2012 - 03:00 PM.

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#18 kuzy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:34 AM

Why are the MVPs so expensive. I heard there not the best. Is it because bob long makes them and their new?

#19 kingJurzy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:43 AM

Why are the MVPs so expensive. I heard there not the best. Is it because bob long makes them and their new?


You just got it.

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#20 drg

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:30 PM

Why are the MVPs so expensive. I heard there not the best. Is it because bob long makes them and their new?


They are one of the best. They are high-end, completely modern, new on the market guns.
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#21 Pump Player

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:59 PM

But not worth the price

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#22 drg

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:11 PM

But not worth the price


You have no objective backup for that statement.
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#23 gospeedgo1

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:01 AM

You have no objective backup for that statement.

i can though. it is overpriced for what you currently are getting. it just is not a fully polished product.

-it farts, i cannot get the farting to stop even with using the other springs. even with lightest spring, seems to cause a bit of "kick" for lack of a better term even when dry firing without air. bob needs to release a better matched spring set.
-it is an open class marker, but the hammer spring stiffness is not much lighter than a phantom. it should be just as light or pretty close to a CCM or green madmann spring'd sniper.
-grips with a led light hole. i understand parts sharing, but this marker does not use batteries. make grips without that, makes it look cheap for such a high price tag.
-anno does not look very durable, seems to scratch easily compared to my other markers and stuff.
-spring detent still allows double feeds, probably needs a larger spring
-i am running into issues with barrel breaks with tourney paint, when snipers with same tank, barrel, fps do not have breaks. i had some previously, but was still getting used to the marker. my phantom had issues with barrel breaks with tourney paint also, but probably due to the high operating pressure.
-issues with trigger sticking popping up, handle does not always return all the way back, does not let marker fire until you force the handle back. allen screws are all tight and loctite'd
-should come with his two piece barrel or a barrel kit with two starter bore sizes since pumps have issues with roll outs.
-sear catches with bolt about 1/2-3/4 back.

other than the above complaints, it is a great marker.
-feels balanced and great in hands, points well
-pump stroke is very smooth with very little play
-cool valvetrain, reg layout
-on/off is easy to use
-pretty simple to take apart, even the reg
-grip tape is nice when your hands have paint, mud, or bunker goo on them.
-

Edited by gospeedgo1, 09 October 2012 - 12:05 AM.


#24 drg

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:52 AM


You have no objective backup for that statement.

i can though. it is overpriced for what you currently are getting. it just is not a fully polished product.

-it farts, i cannot get the farting to stop even with using the other springs. even with lightest spring, seems to cause a bit of "kick" for lack of a better term even when dry firing without air. bob needs to release a better matched spring set.
-it is an open class marker, but the hammer spring stiffness is not much lighter than a phantom. it should be just as light or pretty close to a CCM or green madmann spring'd sniper.
-grips with a led light hole. i understand parts sharing, but this marker does not use batteries. make grips without that, makes it look cheap for such a high price tag.
-anno does not look very durable, seems to scratch easily compared to my other markers and stuff.
-spring detent still allows double feeds, probably needs a larger spring
-i am running into issues with barrel breaks with tourney paint, when snipers with same tank, barrel, fps do not have breaks. i had some previously, but was still getting used to the marker. my phantom had issues with barrel breaks with tourney paint also, but probably due to the high operating pressure.
-issues with trigger sticking popping up, handle does not always return all the way back, does not let marker fire until you force the handle back. allen screws are all tight and loctite'd
-should come with his two piece barrel or a barrel kit with two starter bore sizes since pumps have issues with roll outs.
-sear catches with bolt about 1/2-3/4 back.

other than the above complaints, it is a great marker.
-feels balanced and great in hands, points well
-pump stroke is very smooth with very little play
-cool valvetrain, reg layout
-on/off is easy to use
-pretty simple to take apart, even the reg
-grip tape is nice when your hands have paint, mud, or bunker goo on them.
-


None of which objectively proves the statement, because the MVP is a unique marker, a unique design and a unique vintage. There is really nothing to compare it to besides other high ends, all of which have the benefit of being derivative designs based on literally last-generation platforms. Mind you I do not personally own an MVP so I have no dog in the fight, however I think my area might have the highest per-capita MVP ownership rate. High-end nelsons have similar issues, so performance is mostly moot, and aside from the LED light hole in the grip, nothing about this marker indicates spared expense.

I am also ridiculously jealous of the left coast mvp pump handle. :lol:
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#25 Shamrock905

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

If you want an expensive open class gun get a CCM....small tank, small hopper, and you're golden.
2k6 Bob Long Intimidator-CP 14' .685 barrel, Pinokio, Ninja 68/4500
2k2 Cocker Pump-Hooptie Pump Kit, CCM Dust Black 86 degree trigger frame, CP 14' .685 barrel, CP Rail, CP Reg, Check-It Delrin Bolt, Ninja 13/3000 HPA tank, Pocket Hoppers.......




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