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eXTCy, CO2, Cold Weather, Bolt stick?


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#1 cpuwhiz22

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:33 PM

Ok, so this weekend I was playing up in the northern parts of Michigan (Northern Lower Peninsula). It was rather cold, around 45-47F. My brother and I were both using GoG eXTCy markers on CO2 with A/S tanks. However, part way into the first game my brother called himself out because he was having what seemed to be bolt stick.

It would try to fire when he pulled the trigger, but seemed as though there wasn't much air or force behind it since a ball would just get stuck in the barrel. Then the next shot would shoot fine. It was pretty consistent with this where every other trigger pull would yield a shot with 2 balls, and in between the trigger pulls yielded what sounded like a weak shot. To me, I thought this was bolt stick so pulled the bolt out, cleaned and re-lubed it.

After a few successful shots we headed out and it seemed ok for a minute or so, and then he started having the same problem. All the while mine seemed to be working fine (mind you he plays back and shoots a lot more than I do). We ended up walking off and letting the rest of the guys play while we tried to figure out what was going on. We went through it completely. I tore the reg down, bolt, breech, and everything. I cleaned everything and re-lubed, and then I saw the same results testing.

For this reason I said WTF and started swapping things from my marker which seemed to be fine. Swapped the reg, no luck, swapped the board, no luck. It seemed that it could only be the bolt at that point since all efforts left mine working, and his still not. However, after calling it a day, the next morning I tried them again, and sure as shit mine had the problem and his worked fine.

Now what this makes me wonder are the following:

1. Were the symptoms of firing every other shot with two balls typical of bolt stick? Dry firing with the eyes off gave the same results. Every other shot seemed normal, but in between what sounded like a half shot.

2. Were these symptoms typical of a problem with the reg or the solenoid?

3. Were these symptoms just possibly due to the fact that it was so cold and we were using CO2? The others using 98cs with no A/S tubes didn't seem to have problems, but they don't shoot as much or as fast.

Also note, I had shot about 2 cases through mine and dry fired probably another 3-5000 shots while troubleshooting the issue I had in my other thread, but after that all was well and it seemed to work fine when I was on the trip. My brother also said that he shot about 1000 rounds at home in the backyard, but did say that after a bit he started having that same issue. I guess the most important thing for me is to figure out what caused the symptoms so I have something to focus on for diagnostics. Thanks in advance!

#2 Sean Scott

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:45 PM

I can only Laugh and Giggle as I say... Battery. Make sure to use Energizer or Duracell. Change it and see if you still have the issue.
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#3 Danny D

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

These were not symptom of any physical problem you mentioned.


Sean is right - the battery is to blame, and for a couple reasons.
1. It may be too low or of poor material

2. It may be too cold outside.

3. A combo of the above.


I have a test posted in punkworks that provides evidence of battery output power reducing in cold conditions sufficient enough to prevent you from firing. A battery that is more than 50% used will compound the problem.

What can you do?

1. Use a brand new duracell or energizer

2. Warm the battery using a warm pack, or have a spare one next to your body to swap

3. Use Lithium Ion batteries as they output more power in the cold than alkalines. (Alkalines, and NiCads are especially bad in the cold) NimH is in the middle. I use lithium ions and they work beautifully.



Hope this helps.


Experiment: http://www.techpb.co...1

Edited by Danny D, 10 October 2012 - 03:33 PM.


#4 cpuwhiz22

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:54 PM

I am going to do more testing, but I do have enough experience to know this ;). I swapped batteries on each as soon as there were problems, knowing that the initial ones were brand new anyway. Brand new Energizer and Duracells. Had a ton for the trip for this reason, and I wouldn't waste time swapping out components if I hadn't already swapped the battery. However since I got the same results with the fresh batteries I figured that was not the problem, and two markers under the same conditions were behaving differently. I also questioned whether the cold was the factor, and maybe it was, but it's odd that one identical marker also with a fresh battery was not having problems, while the other was, and additionally had a buddy running a Spyder with a sear tripping E-trigger and he didn't seem to have any issues. I will continue testing since I still have 7 cases of paint and about 60-70lbs of CO2 from the trip. I will let you know what I find out, and I appreciate the input.

#5 Danny D

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:10 PM

I am going to do more testing, but I do have enough experience to know this ;). I swapped batteries on each as soon as there were problems, knowing that the initial ones were brand new anyway. Brand new Energizer and Duracells. Had a ton for the trip for this reason, and I wouldn't waste time swapping out components if I hadn't already swapped the battery. However since I got the same results with the fresh batteries I figured that was not the problem, and two markers under the same conditions were behaving differently. I also questioned whether the cold was the factor, and maybe it was, but it's odd that one identical marker also with a fresh battery was not having problems, while the other was, and additionally had a buddy running a Spyder with a sear tripping E-trigger and he didn't seem to have any issues. I will continue testing since I still have 7 cases of paint and about 60-70lbs of CO2 from the trip. I will let you know what I find out, and I appreciate the input.


Spiders usually use 9.6 volt rechargeable ni mh batteries and have a capacitor. They fare better in the cold because of these 2 factors.

If your using co2 your problem will be compounded. My tests were based on 14 ms of dwell and 11 ms of dwell for each of the markers I tested. You operating at a much higher dwell will need a higher power usage.

Cold will affect it more readily since it requires more power to keep the noid open. A full powered New alkaline battery in the cold may not cut it for CO2 use.

If your operating from 30-40 ms, that is about 2-3 x the power use I did my test at. As you can imagine, batteries will start to act up at much milder temperatures than my experiment. I suggest to use lithium rechargeables or battery warmers if you insist on using co2.

I forgot to mention that in my test, and should have tested for that. Maybe this winter.

Edited by Danny D, 11 October 2012 - 10:14 PM.


#6 Danny D

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:17 PM

Is there any difference at all between the two markers you mentioned were identical? Qev, blackheart, bolt, battery?

#7 cpuwhiz22

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:30 AM

Both are completely stock. Only difference between the two is that one uses a steel line and the other a macro. However yesterday I dry fired about 1000+ shots without issues. The only thing I did was tear *everything* down, pull off all o-rings and clean all old lube off them and their respective components, and then relubed everything with fresh Dow 33. I ran burst and full auto dry firing (conditions outside were about the same as our trip, however the marker was inside prior to testing. The tanks however were stored outside in the cold also. I was able to fire until the tank started to run low when I was noticing reduction in power of the shots, but then I swapped to another tank and it was going strong again until that one ran down too. At this point, things are working well, but I will have to play with the variables more if I get time to see if the problem comes back, and if so what variables could be causing it. I will keep everyone posted. Also, I was thinking about starting a (hold your HPA flames!) CO2 Electro club. I was wondering, how do I go about doing that? Just start a new thread in the clubs area, or do I need to request something from the mods? Thanks!




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