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#51 andrewthewookie

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:39 PM

So we should automatically just hate this because it's Dye?

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#52 Slu

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:42 PM

http://www.paintball...Dark_Earth.html lol

#53 gamefreak054

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:49 PM

http://www.paintball...Dark_Earth.html lol


What a steal! lol

Its just a place holder until it comes out.

#54 bigx

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

So we should automatically just hate this because it's Dye?


No, its just funny how everyone was on the hatewagon then this is announced and everyone is instantly on the Dye OMGZ wagon. Personally I would rather have the Spyder Hammer 7

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#55 smoke14

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

Dayum... I mean Dam

#56 andrewthewookie

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:44 PM


So we should automatically just hate this because it's Dye?

No, its just funny how everyone was on the hatewagon then this is announced and everyone is instantly on the Dye OMGZ wagon. Personally I would rather have the Spyder Hammer 7

Why is it funny? Are we not allowed to judge a product separately from other products? The DM13 is one gun, and the DAM is a completely separate gun, and will be judged separately. I think Dye did something right with the DAM, but that doesn't keep me from thinking they did something wrong with the DM13.

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#57 Gyvanth

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:48 PM

http://www.paintballgear.ca/product/Dye_DAM_-_Dark_Earth.html lol


Wow, it even has free shipping! I gotta hop on this deal before it ends! $9999 is a bargain.

Edited by Gyvanth, 12 October 2012 - 09:48 PM.


#58 bigx

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:48 PM



So we should automatically just hate this because it's Dye?

No, its just funny how everyone was on the hatewagon then this is announced and everyone is instantly on the Dye OMGZ wagon. Personally I would rather have the Spyder Hammer 7

Why is it funny? Are we not allowed to judge a product separately from other products? The DM13 is one gun, and the DAM is a completely separate gun, and will be judged separately. I think Dye did something right with the DAM, but that doesn't keep me from thinking they did something wrong with the DM13.


Good point but I believe im being unclear in what im trying to get across, there was a large majority of people who hopped onto the Dye Hatewagon with the announcement of the DM13. They were judging the whole company for being "unoriginal" and greedy blowing off any hope of them releasing an "Original Product". Then this comes out and it seems like everyone on the hatewagon had to re evaluate themselves and their opinions.

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#59 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:22 PM

Ergos look awesome on this baby.

AFG stock out of box, first strike, stock lowered?

So amazing, too bad I won't be able to afford.

#60 gamefreak054

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:21 PM




So we should automatically just hate this because it's Dye?

No, its just funny how everyone was on the hatewagon then this is announced and everyone is instantly on the Dye OMGZ wagon. Personally I would rather have the Spyder Hammer 7

Why is it funny? Are we not allowed to judge a product separately from other products? The DM13 is one gun, and the DAM is a completely separate gun, and will be judged separately. I think Dye did something right with the DAM, but that doesn't keep me from thinking they did something wrong with the DM13.


Good point but I believe im being unclear in what im trying to get across, there was a large majority of people who hopped onto the Dye Hatewagon with the announcement of the DM13. They were judging the whole company for being "unoriginal" and greedy blowing off any hope of them releasing an "Original Product". Then this comes out and it seems like everyone on the hatewagon had to re evaluate themselves and their opinions.


Personally I think everyone wants to like DYE but they seem to stab you in the back every time you get your hopes up (just look at the DM13 thread, everyone wants it to be good, amazing, and different). People just end up getting sick of it, nobody wants to shell out a couple grand to a stubborn company. When they do come up with something original and good it ends up being and amazing product. Even their soft goods are excellent. When dye finds out they have an amazing product they skyrocket the price up ($150 rotors to $200 rotors). They also seem to refuse to listen to their customers. How many years now have people wanted the DM to be reinvented? and when they finally decide to release another high end marker to be the brother to the DM line it turns out to be plagued with problems and still costs over $1000.

This on the other hand seems to one of their great products. A smooth, quiet, and decently reliable internals in a comfortable milsim body (which is not too heavy), has multiple modes, a decent looking mag system, can fire first strike and use a hopper, uses a rail system, has all the goodies of a speedball marker, and is all wrapped up in a neat package. Its hard not to like it from a distant stand point. Knowing dye they will probably slap that ridiculous $2000 price tag on it and everyone will be dissapointed again. I hope they dont because I actually want one, but I have bad feelings.

Edited by gamefreak054, 12 October 2012 - 11:22 PM.


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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:21 PM

DDAAAMMM!
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#62 Hebiki

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

$1200 is my EDUCATED guess.

Dye CAM.... yup!

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:01 AM

I think 600$ is a good price lol.

#64 Uncas

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:02 AM

I have to admit, I want one just because of the way it looks.

On the other hand, we know nothing about how well it performs.

#65 SAHeatpb

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:05 AM

Not even that big of a fan of tactical but I want NOW!

Edited by SAHeatpb, 13 October 2012 - 12:06 AM.


#66 p8ntballin007

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

Anyone else notice in the video the 20 rd mag comes down way past the bottom of the grip frame, and in the pictures it looks to be shorter than the grip frame? 20rd not stock? Even if it comes with a 14 rd I wouldn't be terribly upset.

I'm not going to hold my breath on this one though. If it's under $700 I would consider it, but otherwise its way out of my price range and just Another Fun Thing I Can't Afford.




#67 akt22

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:36 AM

Lol at people thinking it's around 600-700

Seriously it's Dye. Always expect an outrangeous price, especially when it's too good to be true..

#68 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:21 AM


Holy mother of Milsim...


This is gonna give MilSig a run for their money.


As we all know we won't know how good this thing until its been out for a while but if it is as good as the video shows this will destroy Milsig. Having owned one, a paradigm-it was a great looking piece of junk. Looks like a great product, dye great to see you put something good to marker market that's not just a retread of last years model with some new decals, colours and slightly different milling.

Are you up to date with milsig, and have used the new Paradigm Pro? It'll get you to change your mind.

This will not be the end of Milsig/Rap4. As a member of the magfed community I can assure you that. The community follows more of a "Challenge Accepted" mentality. Milsig releases 2 markers this year? Ok Rap4 designs the 468. Rap4 brings out info on the 468 and Scarab Arms rolls out the TGR2. Dye sees the growth in magfed Paintball and throws their hat in the ring with the DAM.

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#69 Aulldeath

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:27 AM

I agree with Hebiki.

it's Dye, it's going to be majorly expensive.
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#70 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:27 AM

I agree with Hebiki.

it's Dye, it's going to be majorly expensive.

I think an Apple comparison is valid here. The DAM is basically DYE's iPad: same tech on a new platform

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#71 Nobben #44

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:49 AM

So we should automatically just hate this because it's Dye?


Loads of people do it with everything else they make. :rolleyes:
If it's the new DM13 "It sucks, there's nothing new"
But if it's anything by Bob Long "Why fix iy if it isn't broken?"


Me personally almost want to play milsim now because of this. Great move by Dye.

Edited by Nobben #44, 13 October 2012 - 06:50 AM.


#72 Funk21

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:08 AM



Holy mother of Milsim...


This is gonna give MilSig a run for their money.


As we all know we won't know how good this thing until its been out for a while but if it is as good as the video shows this will destroy Milsig. Having owned one, a paradigm-it was a great looking piece of junk. Looks like a great product, dye great to see you put something good to marker market that's not just a retread of last years model with some new decals, colours and slightly different milling.

Are you up to date with milsig, and have used the new Paradigm Pro? It'll get you to change your mind.

This will not be the end of Milsig/Rap4. As a member of the magfed community I can assure you that. The community follows more of a "Challenge Accepted" mentality. Milsig releases 2 markers this year? Ok Rap4 designs the 468. Rap4 brings out info on the 468 and Scarab Arms rolls out the TGR2. Dye sees the growth in magfed Paintball and throws their hat in the ring with the DAM.


Having spent close to 2k and experiencing nothing but issues I ditched it after a few months, it had poor efficiency, poor performance and poor build quality(5 mags not working out of the box, an egrip that failed after one use and a cocking handle that snapped after 2-3 uses). I'm sorry but after that I could the nearest fool who would give me the most for my problem and sold it. Yes I have seen the two markers coming out this year and about the only one that looks remotely interesting to me is the one that was dubbed the M17. I would rather just try something else if I was ever to go Milsim again, the fact that you can switch from FS to regular paint on the fly is a great feature. I personal wish they had a center feed and 45 rails on either side to side mount optics. Just a cleaner look in my opinion.
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#73 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:18 AM

lolRAP4.

lolMilsig.

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#74 cybermaniac15

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:50 AM

I wonder if it will even have an lpr..

#75 A5paintballer524

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:03 AM

Dam i wat a DAM!!!!!!!!!! No if only i had the money:(

#76 recreationalpb

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:36 AM

Straight from AnsGear, " The weight of the Dye DAM is 4.76 lbs without the clip."
Tank - 2.5 lbs
Clip - say .5 lbs
Hopper - 1.56 lbs (rotor)
Paintballs - 1 lb
Total - 10.32 lbs!!!
Woah momma that's gonna be fun to carry around in long scenario games!

#77 XxJellyFilledxX

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:47 AM

Some one needs to turn it into this

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#78 picaboo8

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:49 AM

Straight from AnsGear, " The weight of the Dye DAM is 4.76 lbs without the clip."
Tank - 2.5 lbs
Clip - say .5 lbs
Hopper - 1.56 lbs (rotor)
Paintballs - 1 lb
Total - 10.32 lbs!!!
Woah momma that's gonna be fun to carry around in long scenario games!

is that ran with a 13/3000 or a remote line?

#79 unfated33

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:06 AM


Straight from AnsGear, " The weight of the Dye DAM is 4.76 lbs without the clip."
Tank - 2.5 lbs
Clip - say .5 lbs
Hopper - 1.56 lbs (rotor)
Paintballs - 1 lb
Total - 10.32 lbs!!!
Woah momma that's gonna be fun to carry around in long scenario games!

is that ran with a 13/3000 or a remote line?

2.5lbs is close to either a 48/3000 or 68/4500 weight. So, I think it's a safe bet you'd take that off and use the remote line (as done in the video). Still, you're talking about 7.8 lbs or so of marker. That'd be a significant weight increase from the setup I use for woodsball now. Heck, that's heavier than an A5 setup. Pushes the idea that this is more metal than plastic, though.
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#80 The Inflicted

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:13 AM



Whats the fps difference?


depends on the paint to barrel match of each round.


From my experience it's usually in the range of 30fps.

Not bad if you're chronoing 280 with first strikes and going to regular paint, but it becomes a problem when people chrono with regular paint to save money then put the FS in.


I've had different results.
When I want to use First Strikes in my Phantom I've gone out of my way to make sure my "normal" paintballs are as close to .687 as possible.
This way they match the diameter of the FS rounds and I can use the same barrel for both shots without fear of rollouts.
When I've done this, the First Strikes chrono within +-5fps of the spherical paintballs, which is within the normal deviation.

I can understand a gain of 10-15fps when using small paint then switching to first strikes, but you'd have to be using extremely small paint to get a 30fps jump with FS rounds.

Edited by The Inflicted, 13 October 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#81 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:23 AM

lolRAP4.

lolMilsig.

Where's the "lol" for them? Milsig makes exactly what the magfed player needs. Nelson's products work, look great, and his customer service is some of the best out there (If i had a problem with my MK2 Elite I could get on facebook right now, tell him the problem, he'll get back to me with a solution within minutes, and have spare parts sent out to me within the week.) The new Rap4 468 is Omar's baby, built from the ground up to be the best product Rap4 has ever rolled out. Mechanical full auto, first strike ready, completely mil-spec, it's going to compete with Milsig's K and M series.

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#82 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:28 AM




Holy mother of Milsim...


This is gonna give MilSig a run for their money.


As we all know we won't know how good this thing until its been out for a while but if it is as good as the video shows this will destroy Milsig. Having owned one, a paradigm-it was a great looking piece of junk. Looks like a great product, dye great to see you put something good to marker market that's not just a retread of last years model with some new decals, colours and slightly different milling.

Are you up to date with milsig, and have used the new Paradigm Pro? It'll get you to change your mind.

This will not be the end of Milsig/Rap4. As a member of the magfed community I can assure you that. The community follows more of a "Challenge Accepted" mentality. Milsig releases 2 markers this year? Ok Rap4 designs the 468. Rap4 brings out info on the 468 and Scarab Arms rolls out the TGR2. Dye sees the growth in magfed Paintball and throws their hat in the ring with the DAM.


Having spent close to 2k and experiencing nothing but issues I ditched it after a few months, it had poor efficiency, poor performance and poor build quality(5 mags not working out of the box, an egrip that failed after one use and a cocking handle that snapped after 2-3 uses). I'm sorry but after that I could the nearest fool who would give me the most for my problem and sold it. Yes I have seen the two markers coming out this year and about the only one that looks remotely interesting to me is the one that was dubbed the M17. I would rather just try something else if I was ever to go Milsim again, the fact that you can switch from FS to regular paint on the fly is a great feature. I personal wish they had a center feed and 45 rails on either side to side mount optics. Just a cleaner look in my opinion.

You are obviously not up to date with Milsig's new product line then. Why not contact Nelson Lau directly; he's easy to get into contact with and goes above and beyond to ensure that his product works for you. Also Milsig 17 will not be released until Nelson says so, not this year. He is not satisfied with how it is as of now and will not release it until it's ready. As per your points about efficiency and performance: What were you expecting?


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#83 Funk21

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:49 AM





Holy mother of Milsim...


This is gonna give MilSig a run for their money.


As we all know we won't know how good this thing until its been out for a while but if it is as good as the video shows this will destroy Milsig. Having owned one, a paradigm-it was a great looking piece of junk. Looks like a great product, dye great to see you put something good to marker market that's not just a retread of last years model with some new decals, colours and slightly different milling.

Are you up to date with milsig, and have used the new Paradigm Pro? It'll get you to change your mind.

This will not be the end of Milsig/Rap4. As a member of the magfed community I can assure you that. The community follows more of a "Challenge Accepted" mentality. Milsig releases 2 markers this year? Ok Rap4 designs the 468. Rap4 brings out info on the 468 and Scarab Arms rolls out the TGR2. Dye sees the growth in magfed Paintball and throws their hat in the ring with the DAM.


Having spent close to 2k and experiencing nothing but issues I ditched it after a few months, it had poor efficiency, poor performance and poor build quality(5 mags not working out of the box, an egrip that failed after one use and a cocking handle that snapped after 2-3 uses). I'm sorry but after that I could the nearest fool who would give me the most for my problem and sold it. Yes I have seen the two markers coming out this year and about the only one that looks remotely interesting to me is the one that was dubbed the M17. I would rather just try something else if I was ever to go Milsim again, the fact that you can switch from FS to regular paint on the fly is a great feature. I personal wish they had a center feed and 45 rails on either side to side mount optics. Just a cleaner look in my opinion.

You are obviously not up to date with Milsig's new product line then. Why not contact Nelson Lau directly; he's easy to get into contact with and goes above and beyond to ensure that his product works for you. Also Milsig 17 will not be released until Nelson says so, not this year. He is not satisfied with how it is as of now and will not release it until it's ready. As per your points about efficiency and performance: What were you expecting?


I was expecting what they stated in terms of efficiency off a 13CI tank and got nowhere near it. I read on the Milsig forum that the M17 has been delayed until it is ready. I never said I had a problem with CS, they were actually really great. The problem I have is this, if I shell out 2K for a marker and it's needed components make sure it's not poorly designed(ie parts snapping) or not working. I get people are into mag fed, they I was one of them but after experiencing everything I would prefer a tac cap and a phenom over a milsig or rap4 just on the basis I know it's gonna be more reliable, efficient, and quieter. Like I said the M17 looks promising, but this looks like a game changer in the Milsim world if it works as well as it is suppose too!

Edited by Funk21, 13 October 2012 - 11:50 AM.

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#84 JAWM

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

How much will the individual mags cost?


#85 cybermaniac15

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

Call dye and ask. :dodgy:

#86 LikeACheeseStick

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:33 PM

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#87 TECHDP=)

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:28 PM

http://www.markerbid...tem.php?id=4420

1400$ retail? I guess?

#88 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:37 PM

Methinks the average milsimer doesn't have $1400 for one of these.

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#89 SOUP

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:43 PM

You'd be surprised. people that play actual milsim go all out with their gear and equipment and this DAM is damn cool. I can see alot of the milsim guys buying these. Hell, I'd get one for the cool factor of it alone.

I've seen milsim groups with 2k+ dollar night vision setups on their masks. So I don't think money is an issue for a lot of them.


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#90 AT3256

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:02 PM

I need to stop looking at pictures of this thing. Every second I look at it the more I want it.

#91 picaboo8

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:20 PM

http://www.markerbids.com/item.php?id=4420


The Dye Assault Matrix (also known as the Dye DAM) was built from the ground up to be the ultimate product for tactical players. Dye Precision wanted to provide the industry with a stunning tactical marker that gives users the performance of a high-end tournament marker, as well as the aesthetics and features that tactical players need to thrive on the battlefield.

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The Dye DAM has the ability to switch from a Magazine Fed system to a Loader Fed system with the flip of a switch, it can seamlessly change firing modes (semi, three round burst, full auto), comes standard with Picatinny rails for accessorizing, a gas-through frame, an easily maintainable bolt with a quick release system and built in hyper regulator, clamping feedneck, competition-style single trigger frame, Dye Tactical Sticky Grips, and much more.

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The Dye Assault Matrix delivers the perfect combination of performance and versatility, catering to all styles of play and giving users that edge on the scenario field that only Dye can provide. The weight of the Dye DAM is 4.76 lbs without the magazine.




Dye DAM Quick Release Bolt

The quick release bolt system is a feature on the DAM that incorporates magnets within the knurled back cap. These magnets allow for the back cap to extend and give you enough surface area to grip the bolt and unscrew it by hand. This makes maintenance of your bolt easier than ever before.

Inline Hyper Regulator

The all new In-Line regulator is based on the proven Hyper line of regulators and improves on it with the easiest access and simplest break down of any gun Dye has made. With the Quick Release Bolt any operator can toollessly access their bolt and regulator in one simplified assembly. Now all parts that require standard maintenance are accessed with 2 turns. With velocity adjustment accessible through the back cap, we’ve moved the regulator out of the way for that real military look and operation.

Rotating Eyepipe

The Eye Pipe, patent pending, internal design houses multiple critical systems that ensure worry free performance. The polycarbonate pipe shields the self-cleaning anti-chop eye system from dirt and broken paint, ensuring the eyes are always monitoring the breech and ball drop. The seamless pipe is wiped clean by the bolt tip o-ring on every cycle. The Eye Pipe system also eliminates miss feeds and double feeding. In addition it eliminates external eye plates and the potential of stripped or corroded eye plate mounting screws.

Fire Selector

With the push of a button the DAM can switch from Semi Auto to Three Round Burst to Fully Automatic, or if you want to get fancy you can even program specific firing modes that cater to your style of play. All changes can be done with your gun fully assembled, even mid-game. A board lockout can be implemented to get you on the tournament field or any firing mode-restricted areas. Precision or volume, just a button away.

Removable Lockdown Clamping Feedneck

The Dye DAM comes standard with a feedneck Cover Plate that can replace the feedneck assembly giving the operator an unbroken top Picatinny Rail compatible with all standard military optics. Reduces your profile and gives your DAM the most realistic look and feel. It also comes with an adjustable cam lock feedneck allows you to securely lock you loader onto your gun without tools. DYE’s cam lock feed neck sits low and tight on the marker making sure your loader stays low profile with the rest of your gear.

Competition Grade Trigger

Based on a custom design by Youngblood himself, the Dye DAM’s trigger incorporates vertical ridges and an extra wide face, used by top firearms competition shooters. This design ensures steady trigger feel even in the most adverse conditions with or without gloves. Customizable forward and backward travel with spring tension adjustment create the perfect pull.�

Modular Rail Shroud

The two interchangeable shroud sections and front cap allow the operator to reconfigure the DAM for any style of play. With all shroud sections installed, the Dye DAM has over 2 Feet of standard Picatinny rails. All side and bottom rails are removable and interchangeable. Picatinny rails are standard for fire arms and will allow attachment of any standard optics, grips, etc.

Tactical Dye DAM Sticky Grips

With even easier Toolless access to the battery and extra thick ergonomic design, this all new grip improves on every aspect of these top-of-their class grips.

#92 RIP-Buttercup

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:28 PM

Most hardcore milsim players have said NO batteries. I have a feeling some may change their minds with this, but if they hold to their guns, the hardcore milsimers will not go for this.

One aspect that people haven't mentioned is that switching from magazine to hopper feed and vice versa will not clear the breech and change to the other ball. This means that if you have a nice long range shot that you know you can hit with a FS round, you will have to manually clear the breech or you're going to miss and give yourself away. You could also have a close range shot that you may have to waste a FS round on. Not a major deal breaker, but something to think about.

My price estimate is $1500. If this is based off the DM or NT, then it will not be cheaper (think MTac, TM7, TM15).

Edited by RIP-Buttercup, 13 October 2012 - 04:29 PM.

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#93 RatDragon

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

Seems pretty sick, nice to see that somebody has FINALLY realized that AR15/M4 style stocks don't work in paintball without modification. Such as the few wonderful inches of drop on the DAM. This is definitely going to be a someday marker for me.
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#94 Bauzer

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

looks like something from borderlands

let me know if you find any good porn on it, always got room on the thumbdrive :-)


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#95 RatDragon

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:11 PM

looks like something from borderlands


If I ever get one, I'm totally having "Miss Moxxxi's Bad Touch" Laser engraved on it.
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#96 NBTIppy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:53 PM

Oooooooh, so THIS is why they haven't changed the DM in 100 years, they were focusing on this... :dodgy:

#97 drexler

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

It's miltastic!

Got a tacticool boner now. Maybe I'll stop playing airsoft as often and pickup one of these.

Saw that it was 1400 bucks. I'll stick to Rap4 thanks.

Edited by drexler, 13 October 2012 - 08:55 PM.


#98 The Inflicted

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

Anyone else notice in the video the 20 rd mag comes down way past the bottom of the grip frame, and in the pictures it looks to be shorter than the grip frame? 20rd not stock? Even if it comes with a 14 rd I wouldn't be terribly upset.


I noticed that too.
I took a screencap of the video, after the mag was fully seated and you can plainly see how the 10+10 round extends below the grip frame.
Also, notice how there are three rectangular areas visible on the side of the mag in the screencap but only one in the released pictures.
I'd be willing to bet that the shorter magazine depicted in the official image doesn't actually exist; someone just photoshopped it to make the marker look smaller.

Edit: Unless the smaller mag is an empty, dummy mag packaged with the marker for people who only intend to run the gun hopper fed, don't want the cumbersome 10+10 mag sticking down, but would think the gun looks weird without one.



Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by The Inflicted, 13 October 2012 - 09:10 PM.


#99 CdnNinja

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:22 PM

Odd, my body appears to be ready for this...

40k-1.png


#100 J. Nez

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:38 PM

This actually looks rather outstanding. I'm not generally fond of high priced milsim guns, but at least it looks like they incorporated some good features into this.




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