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What Vicious has to say about PSP


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#1 TECHDP=)

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:39 PM

Dear PSP...please explain to us how we can go 3-1 and beat the #2 team in the league and not go on to Sunday. Explain it to Dynasty as well as they too go 3-1 and beat the #1 team in the country.

I know it came down to point spread, which was tied, and then it was points scored. It is easy for the upper teams to score points when they always don't have to play each other. They get lower teams and can score more points.

The 14 team bracket screwed two teams that supported your league for quite some time. The fact that the upper teams always get byes against each other during the year also screws the other teams.

I wish there was a pro owner meeting where owners could discuss their thoughts.

Two pro teams got screwed at WC.

Straight from their Facebook. What do you guys think?

#2 Schuppert3

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:57 AM

They have a good point. The fact that Impact and XSV just jumped in really hurt people. Money talks though. Nothing will get done. This is not the first time a team has gotten screwed over the point spread rule and it wont be the last.

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#3 DBeck

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

actually saw that game i thought they would move on damn that sucks

#4 LV Backpacker

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:47 AM

Its quite bullshit. If one team gets screwed from point spread, its somewhat excusable, but when the two teams that beat the #1 and #2 teams get shafted, it shows a problem. Besides, Sundays are more fun when you get to see Vicious's red jerseys.

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#5 Pakistani

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:20 PM

im a big vicious fan and a bigger dynasty fan, but the way i see it, this is just post even bitching from vicious.

all of the teams knew the rules regarding how you advance to the later rounds and no one was complaining about it going in.
the event was really cut throat and awesome teams weren't able to advance. thats what happens when you have a large number of teams stepping their game up.

tough break for vicious? sure.
something genuinely wrong with the system? nope.

on another note-
if "team X" goes 10-0, but then gets beaten by "team Y" thats 0-10, that doesn't necessarily mean team Y was the best team at the event.

Edited by Pakistani, 28 October 2012 - 08:22 PM.

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#6 canscom

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:27 PM

I dont really give a damn
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#7 REDCOBRA

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:12 PM

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#8 Ironchefxingba

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

im a big vicious fan and a bigger dynasty fan, but the way i see it, this is just post even bitching from vicious.

all of the teams knew the rules regarding how you advance to the later rounds and no one was complaining about it going in.
the event was really cut throat and awesome teams weren't able to advance. thats what happens when you have a large number of teams stepping their game up.

tough break for vicious? sure.
something genuinely wrong with the system? nope.

on another note-
if "team X" goes 10-0, but then gets beaten by "team Y" thats 0-10, that doesn't necessarily mean team Y was the best team at the event.


took the words right out of my mouth, I love Vicious, great team, always good to watch, but it seems like they always have something to bitch about every event, its a tough break and they played their ass'es off unfortunatly it wasn't enough, they knew how the advancement system worked before they entered. with the addition of 2 extra teams, should the system have flexed a little to accomadate the situation, probably. but they knew going in what it was they didnt make the cut. it sucks, but thats life
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#9 NBTIppy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:48 PM

Vicious gets butt hurt every time they lose. Which is always...

Paintball is so full of bitching and moaning

#10 andrewthewookie

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:51 PM

Anytime there's a round robin format, someone will always feel like they were shafted.

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#11 Schuppert3

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:53 PM

Anytime there's a round robin format, someone will always feel like they were shafted.


Exactly.

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#12 LV Backpacker

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

Having calmed down overnight, I'm a bit less upset. However one of the big things with Vicious's anger, was that it wasn't point spread that screwed them over, it was points for. Vicious, Infamous, and Red Legion all had 3-1 records with +6 point differential. Infamous had beaten Red Legion, who beat Vicious, who had beaten Infamous. The tiebreaker eventually came down to the fact that Infamous had scored 23 points while Vicious and Red Legion only scored 22. Since those 23 points broke up the three way tie from hell, Red Legion then won the head to head tiebreaker with Vicious. Had Infamous had a +6 differential with only 22 points for, then the tiebreaker gets even more convoluted and I don't feel like looking it up right now.

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#13 TK-421

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:16 PM

Who cares, Houston Heat would've won no matter what. :lol:

#14 A&MBaller

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

Who cares, Houston Heat would've won no matter what. :lol:



#15 SamBo

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:58 PM

Anytime there's a round robin format, someone will always feel like they were shafted.


Agreed round robin is good for getting every body games to play but not for deciding who is the best. They need to go to just straight tourney style. It would be much more fun to watch in my opinion.

#16 DarkSide

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:54 AM

I kinda wanted to see Dynasty keep going. Surprisingly they played well.
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#17 biggidyo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:51 AM

ties shud = tie breakers.

#18 Pakistani

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:27 AM

ties shud = tie breakers.


theres no need for that. the point spread + total points won system is a perfectly fine way of doing it.
if a team goes 3-1 by 7-0'ing every team they play except 1. and another team goes 3-1 by winning every game 6-7, why should those two teams have to do a tie breaker when the first team is obviously being more dominant at that particular event.
that then just leaves room for "we played much better than the other guys, why should we have to do a tie-breaker?". Determining seeds though stats is the most consistent and fairest way of doing things.
it lets the teams sit down and say "alright guys, we need to win this game by X points and we advance" and not " alright guys, lets win this match so we can play another match to see if we move on or not".

it causes a burden financially for the teams, but also for the PSP as that's just a bunch more games they have to ref.

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#19 tripp

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:15 AM

Anytime there's a round robin format, someone will always feel like they were shafted.


exactly
the team i was pitting for in d3 didnt make it to saturday( D3 was so big it had an extra day of finals)
24 teams made it(the top 2 from each bracket, and 2 wild cards), in one fo the brackets, the second team was "wild ranked" at 43
yet they still made it
my team was ranked 25 last i checked lol
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#20 TaFF

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

They obviously know how the system works but its not full proof. They deserved to make Sunday more than other teAms but they didn't. That's how it's screwed up

#21 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

whew, much respect for them for speaking out. But knowing the history of the PSP / Chris Raehl, speaking out publicly about ANYTHING in regards to the PSP, especially criticism, is a deathwish

They love to ban & punish ANYONE who speaks out publicly, off the field and on. Everything from Raehl threatening to perm ban your APPA ID, to the PSP just banning your entire team all together

Rule #1 about the PSP - If you play the PSP, you don't EVER speak out publicly about anything negative about the PSP.


It's literally a death certificate to you and your team in regards to competing in the PSP.


Bookmark this post, let's see what happens next year. I certainly wish them luck in 2013, but they just put crosshairs on their chest in 2013 for publicly posting that.

#22 SamBo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:24 PM

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#23 Demon

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

he was mad as hell when we asked if we could combine uno and UNL to make one team because we didn't have enough people and we are the same university, credits transfer over etc just split into two cities, and he was not going to have any of that. even though everyone we wanted to have on the team was going to be appa ranked D4 and D5

Edited by Demon, 30 October 2012 - 08:38 PM.

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#24 Eskimo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:29 PM

Rule #1 about the PSP - If you play the PSP, you don't EVER speak out publicly about anything negative about the PSP.



Then the problem here arises, we should come to a format where a majority of players stand behind it and IF another player voices an opinion about the format they should have a legitimate answer. If the teams feel that if they raise a question they will be barred from playing, thats not the league which should be promoted as our public image.

now they did say it over facebook, not a direct private conversation with the PSP, which doesnt help them at all.

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#25 Demon

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

i can almost guarantee that the management of vicious was up in anyone of authority at the PSP's face while they were there. they did raise a very very big point though in saying that there should be team meetings with the PSP and the teams managers/captains. there needs to be a chance for direct players input.

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#26 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

chris raehl is already pissed as fuck at vicious for the NCPA shenanigans


LOL want some insider advice that was politely shared with me? This is how you get around the NCPA nonsense-

1) At your university, you find about a dozen of your friends (who don't play paintball) who are full time students
2) You register them on your roster
3) You check in at the check-in counter with the full time students
4) Once you get approved to go play, take your players (who aren't even students) and put them on the field. Make sure they have blank jerseys
5) Since the NCPA doesn't check ID's past the point of the registration desk, you can put whoever you want on the field, you just need to ROSTER full-time students, and check-in full time students.

For instance, on your roster you have-

John (full time student)
Chuck (full time student)
Albert (full time student)
Henry (full time student)
Hank (full time student)

But after you check in, these guys play in their place-

Tom (not a student)
Dick (not a student)
Josh (not a student)
Harry (not a student)
Steve (not a student)


You find students to check in, and you find non-student players to play in their spot. Teams do this ALOT more than you think. Does the NCPA ID players in the pits? Nope.....

#27 Eskimo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:49 PM

^ and thats fair how?

maybe we should just open up the rosters to anyone then. would solve alot,

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#28 Demon

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

NCAPPL "national college aged paintball players league"?

and mike we've talked before and you know me, i don't roll like that.

Edited by Demon, 29 October 2012 - 07:53 PM.

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#29 Eskimo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:07 PM

NCAPPL "national college aged paintball players league"?

and mike we've talked before and you know me, i don't roll like that.


Essentially, you could open it to anyone currently taking university\collage anywhere,
For the non post secondary students you could work out a age boundary (17 to -- ) and just ensure their skill level is on the same playing field with everyone else

maybe? if everyone is cheating the system then whats the reason we have it.

OR go the other route and genuinely boot the people not on the team out.

Edit: Jesus Christ i suck at spelling

Edited by Eskimo, 29 October 2012 - 08:12 PM.

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#30 K1NGofTH3farW3ST

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:07 PM

vicious and dynasty did get robbed but there are a lot of other teams that have and will get robbed, they just dont complain but this was world cup. I just hope the PSP takes this professionally but then again its paintball...

Edited by K1NGofTH3farW3ST, 29 October 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#31 Demon

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:10 PM


NCAPPL "national college aged paintball players league"?

and mike we've talked before and you know me, i don't roll like that.


Essentially, you could open it to anyone currently taking university\collage anywhere,
For tho non post secondary students you could work out a age boundary (17 to -- ) and just ensure their skill level is on the same playing field with everyone else

maybe? if everyone is cheating the system then whats the reason me have it.

OR go the other route and genuinely boot tho people not on the team out.


much to difficult to actually just handle people who break the rules. it is a common trend, just much easier to bitch at anyone who tried to follow the rules and do it right.

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#32 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:00 AM

Not to get off topic, but I personally think the rules for the NCPA are a bit silly and too strict

They are more strict than NCAA rules on NCAA scholarship athletes. They could DOUBLE the amount of teams in the league, if they opened it up to students who aren't as financially sound as those playing in the tournament.

Take a full time student, who is SUPPOSED to be studying 40 hours a week, and expect them to be able to raise $1,000 per player (travel, entry, paint, etc) to play a paintball tournament? When they can barely afford the time to work a minimum wage job to scrape by?


But then again, when you're Chris Raehl and charging $60 per ID card annually to every tournament player in paintball, I guess the "money problems" of a struggling college student don't quite register in your head

#33 Shorts

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:42 PM

The biggest issue I have with the current PSP Rules on the tiebreaker is that it isn't a point differential.

Taking points for allows every team that may win 7-6 to get in over a team that wins 6-0, which is something that doesn't seem right in any way. Taking the point differential would give a much more sound idea of that teams capability to play all around.

But, maybe I am just thinking about it the easy way? I just don't see how points for makes any sense.

Edited by Shorts, 30 October 2012 - 12:44 PM.




#34 raehl

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

I see Mike is off in fantasy land again.

whew, much respect for them for speaking out. But knowing the history of the PSP / Chris Raehl, speaking out publicly about ANYTHING in regards to the PSP, especially criticism, is a deathwish


Are you new to paintball? There's people speaking out publicly about PSP all over the internet all the time. None of them are dead.

They love to ban & punish ANYONE who speaks out publicly, off the field and on. Everything from Raehl threatening to perm ban your APPA ID,


People banned from APPA all fall into one of three categories:

- Thieves
- People who have assaulted other players/staff
- People who lie about or misrepresent their name/birthdate to play illegally.

That's it. There is not a single person banned from APPA for saying something, nor has there ever been.

to the PSP just banning your entire team all together


No one has ever been banned from PSP for saying something.

Rule #1 about the PSP - If you play the PSP, you don't EVER speak out publicly about anything negative about the PSP.


Except, apparently, all the people in the past 10 years who have posted in the PSP forum. Probably THOUSANDS of them. Who haven't had a single bad thing happen.

he also was mad as hell when we asked if we could combine uno and UNL to make one team because we didn't have enough people and we are the same university, credits transfer over etc just split into two cities, and he was not going to have any of that. even though everyone we wanted to have on the team was going to be appa ranked D4 and D5


The NCPA no longer permits combined teams at all. The need for that has been replaced with the pick-up team system.

But, even under the old procedure, there's no way the NCPA would have allowed a UNL-UNO combined team. University of Nebraska-Lincoln has 25,000 students. UNO has 15,000 students. There is simply no reason either of those schools need to form a combined team with anyone. When someone from UNL called and asked about it, I did get a bit irked when they insisted they just HAD to combine with UNO to play because they couldn't find 5 paintball players out of a school of 25,000, even after I suggested they do some of the things all of the other schools in the NCPA do to attract players.

It's a college league. You play with the students at your school. If you just want to play paintball tournaments with your friends, there are plenty of other leagues for that.

LOL want some insider advice that was politely shared with me? This is how you get around the NCPA nonsense-


If playing college paintball with an illegal roster is so important to you that you'd risk getting kicked out of school over it, sure, give that a try. I mean, how could anyone possibly notice that the guys in front of them in line at team check-in aren't the guys on the field?

But then again, when you're Chris Raehl and charging $60 per ID card annually to every tournament player in paintball, I guess the "money problems" of a struggling college student don't quite register in your head


Huh? again.

I don't charge ID card fees at all. Some leagues do. None of them charge $60. PSP charges $50, although there's an extra $10 if you wait until the event to do it. Most other leagues charge $30 or less. APPA just provides the software that tracks everything (and at PSP we run their registration for them.)

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#35 raehl

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:02 PM

The biggest issue I have with the current PSP Rules on the tiebreaker is that it isn't a point differential.


I'm not sure you understand the PSP rules.

The tie-breaker *IS* points differential (margin). In this case, however, all three teams had the SAME point differential, +6, so then the NEXT tie-breaker applies, which is total points scored. If that's the same, the tiebreaker after that is game time remaining in matches won.

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#36 cockerpunk

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

mike and chris ....

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#37 cybermaniac15

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

mike and chris ....

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#38 cport

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

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#39 Demon

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:06 PM

chris, we can't force the school to attract more players, this isn't football, they don't hand us thousands of dollars to go play, let alone finding people who have the time, money is an even larger factor, and yes we have tried to find players, and we didn't say we HAVE to we just asked and as soon as the word "merge" was said you cut us off and started going off about how there is no way in hell it would happen, honestly pretty rude from someone who is supposed to help the college students, you could have given a little respect to the people trying to play your tournament and simply asking permission, seems like a great way to get more teams into your system doesn't it? and the reason we asked about UNO is because there are players who do play and said they could commit the time and money, we tried at UNL but it seems you are not aware that paintball is not on top of everyones priority list, especially in the Midwest, it isn't all that big around here.

but hey, go and chew our heads off for just asking instead of going behind your back and trying to cheat, and FYI if people do try to cheat like mike said paintball and your league doesn't need to be recognized they won't get kicked off campus.

i also love that you suggest for people to cheat. how nice it is to see our tournament producers promoting a nice clean game and showing how easy it would be for someone to break those rules, i am sure the universities just love that. :dodgy:

sorry for trying to follow the rules and ask a simple question. if you don't want to deal with people asking about your league then maybe you shouldn't be trying to run one?

Edited by Demon, 30 October 2012 - 05:06 PM.

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#40 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

Since Chris Raehl would like to get involved in the discussion, I'd like ask Chris a question-

Many years ago, when shit went down between me and the PBN community, who shared my WIFE'S personal information with Ed Reiker? Including her full legal name and her cell phone number?

Ed Reiker admitted that he was calling my wife's cell phone number. There was two people, inside of the paintball industry that had that number - me (her husband) and you (Chris Raehl on her APPA ID)


Why don't you sprinkle some more pixie dust in my little fantasy land, and share with my community how Ed Reiker got my wife's cell phone number, off her APPA ID?


Bet you never thought in a million years, the person who's privacy you breeched, would end up with the largest Youtube channel in paintball and forum with 50,000 people in it. I know Simon sure didn't


Enlighten us Chris......

#41 TECHDP=)

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

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#42 LV Backpacker

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

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If you want to get sponsored, present yourself as a mature adult, not a four year old with a crayon.

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#43 tripp

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:50 PM

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dis gonna be gud!

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#44 Spider200081

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

Oh boy, that didn't take long at all! All right gentlemen to your corners and come out fighting at the bell. You ready?.... You ready? All right let's bring it on! DING!

#45 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

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Awarded: " the biggest dumbass on this forum" 2012


#46 Panda Man

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

.. hahah... professional paintball.

#47 The Knife Crazy

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

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#48 raehl

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:45 PM

Many years ago, when shit went down between me and the PBN community, who shared my WIFE'S personal information with Ed Reiker? Including her full legal name and her cell phone number?


Given how sketchy your memory is, most likely it was you.

It certainly wasn't me. I'm not sure I've ever even known your wife's name. I certainly can't recall it now. And hate to break it to you, but several years ago I didn't even know who you were. Now I just wish I didn't.

Back on topic, I'll assume your complete change of topic constitutes your acceptance that your previous allegations were complete crap.


- Chris

#49 xincognitopbx

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:47 PM

NEED MOAR POPCORN GIFS ASAP

But the Ego 11 is shiny. :(

Dosent the Ego 11 only come in dust colours?

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#50 OEFVeteran

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:04 PM

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