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Christmas is coming, <$200 marker?


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#1 dustyshouri

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

So Christmas is coming and I'm thinking of maybe upgrading my marker. Right now I have a Tippmann 98 Custom, barebones. The only upgrade I have put into it was a $30 14" J&J ceramic(which I absolutely love). So... For around $200 or so(I'm not sure who in my family has what budgets), what should I do?

I'll note I already have:
> A solid mask. I managed to luck out and got a mask in a package with anti-fog. It's comfortable enough and no fog so I have absolutely no problem keeping it until it runs its course
> Ninja 68/4500 Carbon Fiber Tank
> No feeding hopper yet(but I intend to get one as well)

Okay. So I'll start out by saying I actually love my 98c. I got comfortable with the mechanical aspect of it, and I like the reliability. With my 98c and my J&J barrel I pretty much have to do zero maintenance during an entire day of playing, not even cleaning my barrel; and I haven't had a single break in the marker since I've had it(since about the beginning of the year).

On the otherhand my brother-in-law got a Fenix after many recommendations and while the gun itself performs fine he seems to experience a blown o-ring every single time we go out and play. It got bad enough he considered returning it and getting another marker. His cousin also got a speedball marker, but I sadly don't remember which one he got, and he had an absolute horrible experience with it. I really wish I could remember the name but it had eyes and all the apparently measures to prevent breaks in the marker, but they still happened EVERY single round. It was so bad that he had to sit out every other game just to completely strip and clean out his marker because it was getting so filled with paint it wouldn't shoot anymore. He eventually ended up just playing with a back-up marker we had laying around. So those experiences have left me a bit wary with upgrading to electronic/speedball markers.

I'll also note that I, myself, am on a budget as far as paintballing goes. I can't afford to pour paint all over the field constantly with the ramping and such speedball markers offer. So rate-of-fire is of no interest to me. So on top of that, as far as hoppers go I intend to get one of the cheaper ones; my interest is more about upgrading from gravity fed than keeping up with high fire-rates.

So what can you suggest for that range(~$200)? What should I know about speedball markers and such if I upgrade to them? What about the experiences with my brother-in-law and his cousin's markers? I've heard great things about the Fenix around these forums reading, but his experience wasn't as great. I want a good, quality marker, and more importantly one that is reliable. I love the reliability in my 98c and I love the mechanical feel, but I'm also aware most around here feel upgrading from a Tippmann to another Tippmann is a waste of money. Also what to do about my barrel? It was only $30, and I know that's chump-change as far as paintballing/barrels go, but would if I get another marker would it be cheaper to just get another barrel or look into converting attachments?

Edited by Dustyshouri, 03 November 2012 - 06:10 PM.


#2 Aulldeath

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

For under $200, you can get used Mini, which is very light, and a great marker. Brother has one, and he loves it. Don't let people say it's too small for anyone other then little kids, my brother is older then I (I am 21), he's over 6 foot tall, and not a small person.

You can totally single finger your gun, just have 3 fingers under the trigger guard, and 1 on the trigger, that is how I use my Luxes.

The J&J is a nice barrel, certainly better then most stock barrel, especially a 98C's.

If you get a Mini, you really don't need to get any internal or external upgrades. Comes with a LED board, which is very simple to operate, just hold the button to turn on, hold to turn off, all you really need to know out of box.


They only thing with the mini, is that since you are only used to using the feel of the 98C, it will feel a little strange, but most will.

Edited by Aulldeath, 03 November 2012 - 06:05 PM.

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#3 soccer9kt

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

I'd go with a woodsball gun in the Smart Parts SP1... Possibly the best woodsball marker ever made. $124 on ANS gear right now and if you would add an apex... UH! thats just the gun to get right there... Or, you could go a different rout and get a used marker... An Invert Mini or a Proto Rail... Either one is a solid marker.
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#4 Aulldeath

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

I'd go with a woodsball gun in the Smart Parts SP1... Possibly the best woodsball marker ever made. $124 on ANS gear right now and if you would add an apex... UH! thats just the gun to get right there... Or, you could go a different rout and get a used marker... An Invert Mini or a Proto Rail... Either one is a solid marker.



Ooh ya, I forgot about the SP1.
If you really want to keep the feel of your 98C, definately go with the SP1. It's a hell of a lot quieter, smoother, softer on paint, just all around better.

I have one beside me right now.

The apex is not necessary if you only want to shoot normal.

You could probably do the $124 ANSgear Sp1, and pick up either a All American Freak or a Dye UL, makes the gun even more amazing. Just make sure you get them in Ion Threaded backs.

Would total to be just about or under $200.
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#5 iNF

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

G3's, G4's and mini's are good guns. I bought my G3 with a dye ultralight barrel for a little under $200. The gun is great. The only problems i had were the occasional bolt stick, (Fixed by upping the dwell and using nice lube. Even high ends experience bolt stick/airlock.) The power button being so hard to depress (Fixed by taking it out and sticking a washer into it) and my solonoid "sticking" or something which i fixed by re-lubing it. You can get a lot of nice used guns for around $200.

#6 dustyshouri

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:45 PM

Ah also if it's of any interest since this would be a gift for me they'd probably be interested in buying new, so I don't think used is a viable route to go. I'm taking a look at the SP1 right now, I have heard of the Mini so I'll look into that, but if it really is small(even if I could fit it) I'm not sure if I'd get it. My hands cramp up very easily and I'd really like to avoid that possibility.

Thanks!

So is there anything to know about this SP1? The one on ANS is fairly cheap but it lists three firing modes(semi, 3-burst and auto), but another site(paintball-online) doesn't list many of the same features. It's looking pretty nice, but I'm not quite sold on the feed being in the center, thought. I'm also curious as to what the 9-volt is needed for? And anything else I should maybe know about it compared to the 98c or the other options? Oh, and also what sort of barrel threading it uses?

Edited by Dustyshouri, 03 November 2012 - 09:57 PM.


#7 REDCOBRA

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

How many times do you go paintballing in a month or two , do you play in winter? If you go more than 2 times a month and play in winter, I would suggest asking for cash and saving then buying a better marker than what you are looking at perhaps an ETEK or AXE ( they are poppets so the change from a tippmann to them won't be much). Don't go from low end to low end, I have gone through the bottom feeder circuit of paintball , it's not fun . Electro's are intimidating to many but honestly , they aren't that bad ; You have so many resources which can help you fix it if something goes wrong. Oh and also , Don't assume speedball markers have to go fast or ramp , You can set the BPS any way you like , you can even set it to the BPS of a 98c.

Trust me , Don't go low end to low end , You will just be stuck looking at other markers and wishing you had them instead of yours...

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#8 dertydood

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:31 AM

The GOG envy is also a good choice. It's a bit lighter and will suit your needs much better if you ever decide to play speedball. Plus it's upgradeable to Blackheart which gives you all the firing modes you need + eye sensor.
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#9 Aulldeath

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

Ah also if it's of any interest since this would be a gift for me they'd probably be interested in buying new, so I don't think used is a viable route to go. I'm taking a look at the SP1 right now, I have heard of the Mini so I'll look into that, but if it really is small(even if I could fit it) I'm not sure if I'd get it. My hands cramp up very easily and I'd really like to avoid that possibility.

Thanks!

So is there anything to know about this SP1? The one on ANS is fairly cheap but it lists three firing modes(semi, 3-burst and auto), but another site(paintball-online) doesn't list many of the same features. It's looking pretty nice, but I'm not quite sold on the feed being in the center, thought. I'm also curious as to what the 9-volt is needed for? And anything else I should maybe know about it compared to the 98c or the other options? Oh, and also what sort of barrel threading it uses?



The gun is electronic, the 9volt goes in the grip frame. All you do is remove 3 screws on the grips and there is a battery harness.
Nearly ALL higher end guns have a center feedneck, you are supposed to tilt the gun a little to aim down the gun.

It uses Ion Threads for the barrels.

Don't let the fact that it is electronic dissuade you, that gun can go through a lot. Rain, snow, dirt, pretty much anything. Just don't recommend you take it for a swim.
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#10 fatalreaction

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:03 AM

lol guy's youre missing the semi obvious... i know you said a lot of guys don't like upgrading tippmanns but you could.... Rufus dawg center feed kit, Regulator, TechT hammer, and get a decent loader.... i'm not trying to come off as a troll, Newb, or catch a lot of heat for it, i feel their viable options, keep in mind tippmann effect campaigned pretty successfully with 98's for a long time

#11 slipknot414

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:55 AM

lol guy's youre missing the semi obvious... i know you said a lot of guys don't like upgrading tippmanns but you could.... Rufus dawg center feed kit, Regulator, TechT hammer, and get a decent loader.... i'm not trying to come off as a troll, Newb, or catch a lot of heat for it, i feel their viable options, keep in mind tippmann effect campaigned pretty successfully with 98's for a long time


you could also get the double trigger kit and a new barrel

Edited by slipknot414, 04 November 2012 - 10:55 AM.


#12 dustyshouri

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

How many times do you go paintballing in a month or two , do you play in winter? If you go more than 2 times a month and play in winter, I would suggest asking for cash and saving then buying a better marker than what you are looking at perhaps an ETEK or AXE ( they are poppets so the change from a tippmann to them won't be much). Don't go from low end to low end, I have gone through the bottom feeder circuit of paintball , it's not fun . Electro's are intimidating to many but honestly , they aren't that bad ; You have so many resources which can help you fix it if something goes wrong. Oh and also , Don't assume speedball markers have to go fast or ramp , You can set the BPS any way you like , you can even set it to the BPS of a 98c.

Trust me , Don't go low end to low end , You will just be stuck looking at other markers and wishing you had them instead of yours...

We were going about once a month in the spring/summer but had to take a break to save up some more money. I think we're doing some this winter but I doubt it'll be as often as we were playing in the summer. And while I'd love to save up for a more high-end gun I just don't think it's probable for me to go the route of the more expensive guns; at least right now. I'm just trying to think up some paintball gift ideas for Christmas, and asking for money wouldn't be likely.

I can understand the concern of upgrading sideways instead of upgrading up, but a jump from a $100 to a $500-700 gun is quite steep.

As for upgrading my Tippmann, I'd be more willing if the upgrades weren't so expensive. I plan to get a decent loader(that's not Tippmann proprietary), and double trigger isn't that much interest for me. The only interesting one is the e-trigger, but I'm not willing to shell out $100 for one when I could just get a better gun. I already have a great barrel as well so no point in getting a flatline or anything. Also as far as regulators go, wouldn't my Ninja tank handle the regulation anyways?

I'm looking at the GoG Envy(with blackheart http://www.ansgear.c...nvywbhboard.htm) right now. Anything I should know about that as far as reliability and such? The eXTCy is also in the same pricerange(http://www.ansgear.c...allgunextcy.htm) what's the differences? Also finding some more videos on the SP-1 and it's getting GREAT reviews, and also lead me to the G-1(which is a bit more at the end of the price-range... however I can't find an SP-1 with blackheart already installed, so after a blackheart purchase they're nearing the same price). So much too look into :o

Edited by Dustyshouri, 04 November 2012 - 02:41 PM.


#13 dertydood

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:01 PM


How many times do you go paintballing in a month or two , do you play in winter? If you go more than 2 times a month and play in winter, I would suggest asking for cash and saving then buying a better marker than what you are looking at perhaps an ETEK or AXE ( they are poppets so the change from a tippmann to them won't be much). Don't go from low end to low end, I have gone through the bottom feeder circuit of paintball , it's not fun . Electro's are intimidating to many but honestly , they aren't that bad ; You have so many resources which can help you fix it if something goes wrong. Oh and also , Don't assume speedball markers have to go fast or ramp , You can set the BPS any way you like , you can even set it to the BPS of a 98c.

Trust me , Don't go low end to low end , You will just be stuck looking at other markers and wishing you had them instead of yours...

We were going about once a month in the spring/summer but had to take a break to save up some more money. I think we're doing some this winter but I doubt it'll be as often as we were playing in the summer. And while I'd love to save up for a more high-end gun I just don't think it's probable for me to go the route of the more expensive guns; at least right now. I'm just trying to think up some paintball gift ideas for Christmas, and asking for money wouldn't be likely.

I can understand the concern of upgrading sideways instead of upgrading up, but a jump from a $100 to a $500-700 gun is quite steep.

As for upgrading my Tippmann, I'd be more willing if the upgrades weren't so expensive. I plan to get a decent loader(that's not Tippmann proprietary), and double trigger isn't that much interest for me. The only interesting one is the e-trigger, but I'm not willing to shell out $100 for one when I could just get a better gun. I already have a great barrel as well so no point in getting a flatline or anything. Also as far as regulators go, wouldn't my Ninja tank handle the regulation anyways?

I'm looking at the GoG Envy(with blackheart http://www.ansgear.c...nvywbhboard.htm) right now. Anything I should know about that as far as reliability and such? The eXTCy is also in the same pricerange(http://www.ansgear.c...allgunextcy.htm) what's the differences? Also finding some more videos on the SP-1 and it's getting GREAT reviews, and also lead me to the G-1(which is a bit more at the end of the price-range... however I can't find an SP-1 with blackheart already installed, so after a blackheart purchase they're nearing the same price). So much too look into :o


The cool thing about the extcy, is that it accepts many of the aftermarket parts that were designed for the ion, such as an upgraded bolt which will make it more efficient. The only problem, is that neither the excty or the envy accept autococker threaded barrels, which is pretty much the industry standard nowadays.
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#14 dustyshouri

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

Ah well right now I'll be honest, I'm either looking at the SP-1 or the G-1. The SP-1 looks AMAZING and is everything I want out of an upgrade: very reliable, miniscule amount of ball-breaking, mechanical feel of my 98c, and the 3-mode is just a nice topping for me.

However, if I'm looking at either the SP-1 or the G-1 which would be better? As I said the G-1 is obviously a bit more expensive(but I'm not fully aware of whatever budget relatives may be working with; though once I get a blackheart board for the SP-1 the prices are somewhat comparible). But since I don't know the budget I can pitch the SP-1 as low-end and G-1 as higher end. Does the G-1 do everything the SP-1 does, but better? I also watched an unboxing of it and I love the boxing.

Edited by Dustyshouri, 04 November 2012 - 03:15 PM.


#15 PieCars

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

As far as I know, it's basically the same thing. Before it was the GoG G1, it was the Smart Parts SP-1, and it kinda just got re-released under a new name. Don't get me wrong, there are some differences, since the G1 is a newer release.

After doing some looking around, I found this thread: SP1 vs. G1

Hope I could be of some help!

EDIT: you mentioned you're on a budget, and you also like the mechanical aspect of the 98c. Have you considered playing pump?

Edited by PieCars, 04 November 2012 - 04:43 PM.

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#16 dustyshouri

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Um, I have briefly looked into pump but I know it's a very different type of experience and not sure if I want to put money into it yet.

Okay so budget is apparently around $250. The SP-1 is way below that line(at least on ansgear, it's only $125) so I'm interested in upgrading it with the blackheart board... but I can't find any dealers with the SP-1 blackheart preinstalled on it. However the blackheart boards I'm looking at state they're for the G-1; would this be compatible with the SP-1, since I can't find any dealers are outright state that they're for the SP-1. And if I were to buy the board itself would it be difficult to install into the SP-1?

Edited by Dustyshouri, 04 November 2012 - 05:21 PM.


#17 fatalreaction

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

i'd say the thing with 98 upgrades is that their the middle of the range when it comes to price plus their very simple to swap over... but one thing you get for the money is nearly bullet proof reliability

Edited by fatalreaction, 04 November 2012 - 06:10 PM.


#18 dustyshouri

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:33 PM

i'd say the thing with 98 upgrades is that their the middle of the range when it comes to price plus their very simple to swap over... but one thing you get for the money is nearly bullet proof reliability

As much as I love my 98c I think I'd rather a new gun. In fact for the price of the e-trigger I could just get the SP-1... I'll forever carry my 98c though for a back-up, especially since my group runs electronics that seem to fail a lot.

#19 fatalreaction

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

well may i ask why are you wanting to go electronic? you can get very similar results with a response kit which is still mechanical, the only reason to go with something like an SP-1 or G-1 over a 98 is really rate of fire... and that "milsim" look with all the rails

Edited by fatalreaction, 05 November 2012 - 12:26 AM.


#20 dustyshouri

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

well may i ask why are you wanting to go electronic? you can get very similar results with a response kit which is still mechanical, the only reason to go with something like an SP-1 or G-1 over a 98 is really rate of fire... and that "milsim" look with all the rails

Because I was looking for an upgrade in quality, and the SP-1 has everything the 98c has and so much more for a price comparable to just the e-trigger upgrade. I don't WANT to go electronic, but I was looking for a better marker and the SP-1 has everything I was looking for. It has the durability and feel of my 98c but with upgraded performance. The fact that most reviews praise it, and I can't seem to find anyone saying bad about it, helps reaffirm the recommendations. Honestly I was this close to going with an eNVy which was quite a bit different than what I was looking for, but I'm really glad someone pointed me towards the SP-1.

It'll suck to worry about a battery on top of everything else(especially if I also get an electronic feeder), but I think the pros outweigh the cons. I really don't want to keep pouring money into my 98c when I know eventually I'll end up with like $300 worth of upgrades and I could have gotten a much better marker instead. I'm especially not seeing the point when the SP-1 is just as reliable in terms of ball-breaks(or from what I've been reading, even better) and such as the 98c.

Another question though for those with the SP-1. If I get the SP-1 without the blackheart board, and install a blackheart board, does that mean I'll have two 9-volts in the marker, or does it hook up to the pre-existing wiring and battery set-up already in the marker?

Edited by Dustyshouri, 05 November 2012 - 12:44 AM.


#21 fatalreaction

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:03 AM

it just swaps in, remove the board and drop in the blackheart, only one board, easy as pie

#22 dustyshouri

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

it just swaps in, remove the board and drop in the blackheart, only one board, easy as pie

Well I'm more curious about the fact that the gun is already electronic, but the blackheart board also has a plug for a 9-volt, and if that means I'd have to have TWO 9-volts in the gun if I install the blackheart myself.

#23 The Paint Dude

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:46 PM


it just swaps in, remove the board and drop in the blackheart, only one board, easy as pie

Well I'm more curious about the fact that the gun is already electronic, but the blackheart board also has a plug for a 9-volt, and if that means I'd have to have TWO 9-volts in the gun if I install the blackheart myself.

When your talking electros the gun its self is not electronic the board is the board is the heart and soul of the gun. The board tells the gun what to do when to fire, how fast to fire, and ALOT more so if you take out the old board and put in the blackheart you will only need 1 9-volt.

#24 dustyshouri

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Ah, ya that seems pretty obvious in retrospect. Thanks :)

#25 Master_Chief

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:34 AM


Ah also if it's of any interest since this would be a gift for me they'd probably be interested in buying new, so I don't think used is a viable route to go. I'm taking a look at the SP1 right now, I have heard of the Mini so I'll look into that, but if it really is small(even if I could fit it) I'm not sure if I'd get it. My hands cramp up very easily and I'd really like to avoid that possibility.

Thanks!

So is there anything to know about this SP1? The one on ANS is fairly cheap but it lists three firing modes(semi, 3-burst and auto), but another site(paintball-online) doesn't list many of the same features. It's looking pretty nice, but I'm not quite sold on the feed being in the center, thought. I'm also curious as to what the 9-volt is needed for? And anything else I should maybe know about it compared to the 98c or the other options? Oh, and also what sort of barrel threading it uses?



The gun is electronic, the 9volt goes in the grip frame. All you do is remove 3 screws on the grips and there is a battery harness.
Nearly ALL higher end guns have a center feedneck, you are supposed to tilt the gun a little to aim down the gun.

It uses Ion Threads for the barrels.

Don't let the fact that it is electronic dissuade you, that gun can go through a lot. Rain, snow, dirt, pretty much anything. Just don't recommend you take it for a swim.

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#26 Kirko017

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

Ah also if it's of any interest since this would be a gift for me they'd probably be interested in buying new, so I don't think used is a viable route to go. I'm taking a look at the SP1 right now, I have heard of the Mini so I'll look into that, but if it really is small(even if I could fit it) I'm not sure if I'd get it. My hands cramp up very easily and I'd really like to avoid that possibility.

Thanks!

So is there anything to know about this SP1? The one on ANS is fairly cheap but it lists three firing modes(semi, 3-burst and auto), but another site(paintball-online) doesn't list many of the same features. It's looking pretty nice, but I'm not quite sold on the feed being in the center, thought. I'm also curious as to what the 9-volt is needed for? And anything else I should maybe know about it compared to the 98c or the other options? Oh, and also what sort of barrel threading it uses?


How many times do you go paintballing in a month or two , do you play in winter? If you go more than 2 times a month and play in winter, I would suggest asking for cash and saving then buying a better marker than what you are looking at perhaps an ETEK or AXE ( they are poppets so the change from a tippmann to them won't be much). Don't go from low end to low end, I have gone through the bottom feeder circuit of paintball , it's not fun . Electro's are intimidating to many but honestly , they aren't that bad ; You have so many resources which can help you fix it if something goes wrong. Oh and also , Don't assume speedball markers have to go fast or ramp , You can set the BPS any way you like , you can even set it to the BPS of a 98c.

Trust me , Don't go low end to low end , You will just be stuck looking at other markers and wishing you had them instead of yours...

We were going about once a month in the spring/summer but had to take a break to save up some more money. I think we're doing some this winter but I doubt it'll be as often as we were playing in the summer. And while I'd love to save up for a more high-end gun I just don't think it's probable for me to go the route of the more expensive guns; at least right now. I'm just trying to think up some paintball gift ideas for Christmas, and asking for money wouldn't be likely.

I can understand the concern of upgrading sideways instead of upgrading up, but a jump from a $100 to a $500-700 gun is quite steep.

As for upgrading my Tippmann, I'd be more willing if the upgrades weren't so expensive. I plan to get a decent loader(that's not Tippmann proprietary), and double trigger isn't that much interest for me. The only interesting one is the e-trigger, but I'm not willing to shell out $100 for one when I could just get a better gun. I already have a great barrel as well so no point in getting a flatline or anything. Also as far as regulators go, wouldn't my Ninja tank handle the regulation anyways?

I'm looking at the GoG Envy(with blackheart http://www.ansgear.c...nvywbhboard.htm) right now. Anything I should know about that as far as reliability and such? The eXTCy is also in the same pricerange(http://www.ansgear.c...allgunextcy.htm) what's the differences? Also finding some more videos on the SP-1 and it's getting GREAT reviews, and also lead me to the G-1(which is a bit more at the end of the price-range... however I can't find an SP-1 with blackheart already installed, so after a blackheart purchase they're nearing the same price). So much too look into :o


Don't listen to people, I do not believe they understand that you have a strict budget that isn't changing anytime soon...




The SP-1 is the same as the G1... Smart Parts made the SP-1. They "went out of business" and are now named GOG. And they just changed the name of the SP-1 to the G1.

The GOG G1, Envy, and Extcy are renamed after the Smart Parts SP-1, Vibe, and ION XE. They're the same markers with minor improvements to each when they were re-released under GOG.. All of these markers are based off the Smart Parts ION though. They have the same bolt designs, board designs, operate the same, etc. So they're all equally reliable and perform about the same to say the least. There are little difference between each though, like looks and bolt length, nothing major enough to make a big difference though...

The SP-1/G1 without blackheart board will not have eyes or anything. You might experience some chops when shooting fast, not sure how well the anti-chop low pressure bolt works on the non-eyed ones.. You can upgrade that SP-1 with a blackheart board down the road if you want to and it will give you eyes. As long as the eyes are clean, you shouldn't ever experience any chopped balls. I can promise you that. All 3 of those markers I listed are based off the Smart Parts ION. A well known, and well built marker. Many years, and many paintballs shot through these guns. They are solid markers.

SP-1 is probably your best bang for the buck when choosing between those markers. You can always get a blackheart board later. Also to answer your question. it will only require one 9v battery without the blackheart board. And once you get the blackheart board, you are simply just removing the current electronic board and putting the new blackheart one in. It will still operate on one 9v battery with the blackheart board.

Now the SP-1 and Vibe will need a new front breech I believe when upgrading to the blackheart board because the breeches in those were not milled for the eyes if I remember correctly. And that was one of the improvements made when the G1 and Envy was released to already have the front breech milled for the eyes for the upgrade. So if you get the SP-1 you will need to find an SP-1 Specific blackheart upgrade kit as it will include the breech. The GOG G1 blackheart upgrade will not come with it as it doesn't need it. You can still use that board I believe, you just can't connect the eyes to the board and use the eyes until you get a new breech milled for the eyes. If you contacted GOG they can get you a G1 breech and board for the SP-1 though when you ready to upgrade to it. New Breech is like $40 so that plus the board cost is $65. Looking at $105 to upgrade your SP-1 with a blackheart. So a SP-1 with blackheart will cost around $230ish and a GOG G1 with blackheart is around $300 and stock G1 is $250...

If you are going to go with the GOG Envy with blackheart. I recommend just getting the GOG Extcy with blackheart board for the same exact price. Reason being as the Extcy has eye covers. So you can access the eyes and detents easily without having to take the marker completely apart at the field in case for some reason dirt or paint blocks the eyes bad enough that you do need to take it apart to clean... Plus upgrade parts are more common like bolts, triggers, etc. in case you ever want to change those out later down the road.

Now GOG just released the GOG eNMEy which is a GOG Envy that is mechanical/sear tripped just like the Tippmann. So it is mechanical operated with no electronics. It is the same price as the SP-1 though. There will be an upgrade kit coming out for it though that will turn it fully electronic just like the Envy or SP-1/G1. And it will basically be a GOG Envy then. Not sure if that upgrade will be a blackheart or not though as it isn't released yet. Unless you want a mechanical, then upgrade later to electronic. I would say get the SP-1 otherwise this eNMEy is a good price and gun for a mechanical marker with good options. And upgrading this later down the road to electro is much much much better than upgrading the 98 with an egrip as this will be able to probably have eyes as well. Not to mention once it is upgraded with electronics it will shoot a lot smoother than a 98 with egrip.

So if you want to stick to mechanical right now, and have potential to electronics and fast firing later down the road. Go with the eNMEy.
If you want the smooth firing and electronics now, go with the SP-1.

If you go with the SP-1. I recommend holding off on the blackheart. Spend the $125 for the marker. And get a better hopper. THEN get the blackheart upgrade down the road. Even without the blackheart the marker will be able to shoot fast or slow. And a hopper will benefit you way more than upgrading the board without a good hopper.

Now another good option and I am surprised no one mentioned it. The Proto Rail. It is $250 and pushing your budget. But if you plan to spend your $250 on just a marker, this is one to look at as well and is very nice. I would recommend this over all the other 3 options if you plan to spend $250. Not saying the SP-1 sucks or the Extcy. I truely honestly like all 3 :). But the Proto Rail is thinner in the body than the Extcy and SP-1. Has eyes with an eyepipe like you see on the DMs and NTs. A nice board like the blackheart. And the barrel is autococker threaded which is more common than Ion threaded like the other markers we have been talking about are. Common doesn't mean cheaper. Barrels all cost the same, but if you go to buy used they're easier to find is all and there are many more options for autococker threaded. But all the good barrels are made in Ion threaded as well so do not let that be the deciding factor.. But like I was saying the Proto Rail is a solid marker as well.





I guess I will take the time to talk about hoppers with you. Tons of good hoppers out there. Hoppers that are good, affordable, and in your budget. I know you said you do not play often and do not want to spend money on batteries. I am honestly going to recommend the Proto Primo loader first for you. It is gravity fed, no batteries, cheap. Pretty nice hopper. If you get an electro marker, are you going to be able to shoot out a bunch of paint very fast? With this hopper you can shoot realistically fast enough at your friends still. Because from the sounds of it I don't think you have a lot of money to spend on a lot paintballs and this will help you not shoot so fast and waste a lot of shots/paintballs and help you control the rate of fire better. Because regardless of how low you set the BallsPerSecond(bps) on electros, they still shoot mighty fast compared to your 98c!! And it is no fun being out of paintballs on the field while your friends still have some and are shooting at you! Or not being able to play while your friends still are because they have paint left, and you do not. So I recommend the Proto Primo.

If you do want to go electronic hopper. Empire/Invert Halo Too loader is good and solid for many reasons and a good price. Tons of threads about this loader. I really don't feel like listing reasons why it is so good. Have owned and used many of them over the years, they are great loader for that price range and it keeps up with any marker just like any of the $200 loaders, you just don't get the super quick tool-less disassembly like you get with the $200 loaders. Which is no big deal. It's only a few screws if you do need to clean inside it for some reason. The Invert Too runs at $75 and the Empire Halo Too is $85. They're the same hoppers made by the same company. The Empire named one just has the older Empire Reloader B shell which makes it a different colors. I'd say save the $10 and get the Invert Too in matte black unless you really want a different colored one. Oh and these use 4 AA batteries.

Kingman Fasta loaders I hear are good. Never personally used them though as they came out and I have all the top of line hoppers and no need for one of these, same with everyone at my field. But I hear good things on the internet about them. The Kingman Fasta LED 9v For $45 and the Kingman Fasta LED 18v at $65. The 9v feeds at <15bps and 18v feeds faster at <30bps. The 9v uses one 9v battery while the 18v obviously uses two 9v batteries. This is a cheaper option compared to the Invert/Empire Too. Also get the LED version, LCD on a loader is so pointless and not worth the extra cash. The Fasta is a good option.

There is the Valken VMax for $80... But I honestly wouldn't recommend it. It is supposed to be a good hopper. But I heard some of them have had battery draining issues and I don't know. I just wouldn't recommend it since you obviously are not made of money and there are better, cheaper options I personally would buy before getting this hopper.

So to sum it up. I suggest the Proto Primo. It is gravity fed though. If you want Electronic, if you can afford it, I say get the 18v Kingman Fasta.




And I am only going to recommend this for a barrel because it is one of the best barrels you can get. It is a Custom Products barrel. The One-piece is priced so nicely at $25 too. Honestly doesn't get better than that. This company makes most of the stock barrels for a lot of high-end markers because they make absolutely awesome barrels. Get whichever color you want, they have them in many different colors. Just get whichever thread your marker uses. And I recommend 14" in length, that is the norm for barrels. Can't go wrong with this option so I won't even suggest any others because it is a waste of time.



Tried to cover everything as much as possible. I hope this helped! If you have anymore questions feel free to ask!
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Edited by Kirko017, 23 November 2012 - 02:03 AM.

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#27 bigx

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:47 AM

^ /Thread Amazing Write up Kirko

This man speaks the truth. I agree with nearly every point he brought to the table.

Although in the case of hoppers. I have to disagree with him. If you can pick up a used VL Vlocity Hopper you will have one of the best most reliable hoppers ever made at a Price Point of maybe $30.

Just going to add in another option here. I am the huge fan of the Planet Eclipse Etek platform. You can pick up a used Etek 2 for around $200 they are a true speedball marker and in terms of reliability and performance they will absolutely demolish ANYTHING in that price range. Off of your 68/45 you would be able to shoot about 10 Pods of paint, and if your going to be playing outlaw ball with your friends without an easily accessible fill station this efficiency is going to be a big factor in how long you can stay on the field. Also Planet Eclipse has some of the best stock boards ever put into a marker. They are fully adjustable for every parameter imaginable and given the three LED's its a rather simple process once you get the hang of it. Lastly the Etek Platform is a stacked tube poppit valve marker. It is BULLETPROOF I have owned several different variations of the marker over the years and I have thoroughly beat them to hell and back out on the field and they have NEVER failed on me or even skipped a beat. Other than the lack of Milsim Taticool realism they are everything you want in a marker and more. I know you are somewhat apprehensive about getting into tournament style speed ball markers but in the long run the Etek will not only be more reliable better preforming but more versatile You would be able to take it out onto the speedball field and hold your own against guys shooting $2000 markers and it will absolutely shred anything you will see out in the woods.

Hope I helped X

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#28 Kirko017

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

I was going to recommend the Vlocity, but sadly the awesome sale on ANS is over. But I think he said he wants to stay away from used items as it is going to be for Christmas from his family and his family doesn't want to buy something used.

Edited by Kirko017, 23 November 2012 - 02:11 AM.

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#29 bigx

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:40 AM

I was going to recommend the Vlocity, but sadly the awesome sale on ANS is over. But I think he said he wants to stay away from used items as it is going to be for Christmas from his family and his family doesn't want to buy something used.


Ohhh, I can understand that. One thing he might want to look into is having your family buy you some nice nice gear instead of a marker. Because you can always save up a little money and get a used marker that will destroy any low end in your current price range. If you play speedball ask for a nice pair of pants some arm pads and a solid hopper, Or if you play in the woods a GOOD pair of SURPLUS BDUS dont waste their money of civilian reproduction crap and a good hopper.

Personally I dont trust family with paintball purchases. They mean well but they sometimes have a knack of never quite picking up the right thing. I buy all my markers used to get the best deals and ensure everything is up to my standards.

This Christmas all im asking for paintball related is that my parents pick up the tab to buy my teams custom jersey for this summer and a new pair of armpads.

If anything I say you go that route, Have your family buy you the gear you need and save the marker for yourself sometimes family is a little squeemish about buying markers anyways but will jump at the opportunity to buy you some protective equipment NEVER underestimate the importance of arm pads they save your life out on the speedball field.

Anyways your going to kick yourself in the pants if you dont buy used anyways, your getting a better gun at a similar price. As long as they are maintained properly there are no real drawbacks to buying a used marker.

Again hope I helped x

Edited by bigx, 23 November 2012 - 08:41 AM.

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#30 ExcellentStudent

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

Now GOG just released the GOG eNMEy which is a GOG Envy that is mechanical/spool valve unlike the Tippmann,which is sear tripped

fixed

Edited by ExcellentStudent, 23 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.

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#31 dustyshouri

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:47 AM

Oh wow, thought this thread was dead, thanks for all the in-depth replies! In fact, the G1 was already purchased, though no Blackheart board has been purchased as far as I know yet. Family is taking a lax year on Christmas this year and decided to toss out the idea of keeping things secret, so I asked for the G1(And sent them a link) and they teased me with a picture of the package :P As for hoppers, I already have that prioritized as well, my mother is still looking for a gift for me and the Pinokio is on sale for $90 over at ansgear so that will probably be another gift. I've heard amazing things about it and the price seems great so I don't feel as though I'm making a mistake hopping on that. I've read up on the Halo Too and I heard it's recommended a lot, but I also have heard it's heavy with a low capacity? I definitely can't go gravity with the G1(even if I use semi-auto) because I heard its lack of recoil and such makes it hard on gravity hoppers.

I considered the SP-1 for a while because of how much cheaper it is while knowing it's exactly the same as the G1... but the fact that it's discontinued worried me. Either way I eventually found out the budget was exactly $250 so I went with the G1 instead, and that's already done. I'm definitely considering holding off on the blackheart anyways since I don't think I'll want to be able to shoot that fast, I can't afford to spend that much on paint. As far as I've heard the low-force bolt NEVER chops, yet everyone recommends the board anyways because added security I guess? Either way if I can I'll hold off on the board until later and purchase it on my own time.

And this thread has been INSANELY helpful. I'm learning as I go and all the help in this thread has taught me a lot, and filled me in on a little of things I didn't know. I'll probably continue using it as a help thread since I still know nothing about electronic markers. I've also had my Ninja tank since my birthday in June but I haven't been paintballing since. There's a few questions I'll inevitably have about that and my new marker. Actually, the fact that my tank AND the marker has its own regulators confuses me a bit. I also have no idea about dwells and such either, so expect me after Christmas :)

Thanks again everyone.

Edited by dustyshouri, 30 November 2012 - 12:51 AM.


#32 Kirko017

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

Oh wow, thought this thread was dead, thanks for all the in-depth replies! In fact, the G1 was already purchased, though no Blackheart board has been purchased as far as I know yet. Family is taking a lax year on Christmas this year and decided to toss out the idea of keeping things secret, so I asked for the G1(And sent them a link) and they teased me with a picture of the package :P As for hoppers, I already have that prioritized as well, my mother is still looking for a gift for me and the Pinokio is on sale for $90 over at ansgear so that will probably be another gift. I've heard amazing things about it and the price seems great so I don't feel as though I'm making a mistake hopping on that. I've read up on the Halo Too and I heard it's recommended a lot, but I also have heard it's heavy with a low capacity? I definitely can't go gravity with the G1(even if I use semi-auto) because I heard its lack of recoil and such makes it hard on gravity hoppers.

I considered the SP-1 for a while because of how much cheaper it is while knowing it's exactly the same as the G1... but the fact that it's discontinued worried me. Either way I eventually found out the budget was exactly $250 so I went with the G1 instead, and that's already done. I'm definitely considering holding off on the blackheart anyways since I don't think I'll want to be able to shoot that fast, I can't afford to spend that much on paint. As far as I've heard the low-force bolt NEVER chops, yet everyone recommends the board anyways because added security I guess? Either way if I can I'll hold off on the board until later and purchase it on my own time.

And this thread has been INSANELY helpful. I'm learning as I go and all the help in this thread has taught me a lot, and filled me in on a little of things I didn't know. I'll probably continue using it as a help thread since I still know nothing about electronic markers. I've also had my Ninja tank since my birthday in June but I haven't been paintballing since. There's a few questions I'll inevitably have about that and my new marker. Actually, the fact that my tank AND the marker has its own regulators confuses me a bit. I also have no idea about dwells and such either, so expect me after Christmas :)

Thanks again everyone.


Glad you found it helpful. I can take the time to tell you about electronic markers, the regulators, and dwell.

If you were to open up the manual for the G1 or any electronic marker. The manuals almost always have an "exploded" view of the markers. Where it shows all the marker's parts.
Now there is a microswitch that is behind the trigger that is pressed by the trigger and it is connected to the electronic board that controls the solenoid which is used to allow air flow throughout the marker operating it to shoot your paintballs. The cool thing that makes electronic markers shoot faster, is that the board can do different things. Like say for every time the microswitch is hit by the trigger, the board can send a response to the solenoid telling it to open and close the air flow let's say three times for every trigger pull. So every time you pull the trigger and hit that microswitch. Three balls will be shot. Which is called 3-shot burst mode. And there are different modes on the boards that are pre-programmed to tell the solenoid different shooting patterns. Now in semi-auto mode on the electronic board. It is set to 1 trigger pull means 1 ball shot just like a mechanical. But since you're only pressing a microswitch as compared to a spring to trip a sear to allow your marker to shoot. You can pull the trigger easier, and faster as your finger doesn't need to travel as far or need as much force. There are other little things but that is the basic operations of them.

Regulators.. Your tank has a regulator that outputs pressure to 800psi or less from your 4500psi tank. CO2 tanks I think output around 800-1000psi... Majority of mechanical markers need 800psi to shoot at paintball at 300fps because they are operated by heavy springs in them to reset them. Well with Electronic markers, the air is placed into the marker at different points in front and behind the bolt through the solenoid or hoses connected from the solenoid. Thus, no big springs, so they can operate at a lower air pressure. Electronic solenoids were not meant to handle 800psi that comes straight out from your tank. So they put a regulator on the marker to regulate the 800psi from your tank to an operating pressure safer for the marker to handle. Which is usually under 250psi.

Now some markers have two regulators on them. A low pressure and a high pressure regulator. It has to do with the design of the markers. Mainly found in poppits, Bob Longs, Egos, etc. But some spools have two like the DMs and old Proto Matrixes. Most spools have just one regulator though such as your G1. But on the markers with two regulators. The low pressure is just to operate the ram/bolt moving back and forth. And the high pressure is released behind the paintball to get the paintball to 300fps. Low pressure regulators operated about 60-90psi high pressure ones around 150-200psi.

www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/animations.html is a great site to see animations of how paintball markers operate if you want to see the air flow through them.

Dwell is how long the solenoid stays in the open position allowing air to flow through. Operates in milli seconds. Really doesn't need messed with from factory settings, but people feel the need to toy with it. You can finely tune your marker by adjusting it... but, the actual difference is arguable. It will not be the deciding factor on if you shoot someone out or not. You're just being a tad bit more air efficient... In the winter months where it snows, if your gun is acting up, you might want to increase the dwell some to allow more airflow a little longer because of the weather. Tends to be why people get mad at their spool valve markers when it snows, that and they do not lube properly. But that should be the only real reason to not use default settings unless you want to try and finely tune for slightly better air efficiency..

Edited by Kirko017, 01 December 2012 - 08:36 AM.

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#33 Kirko017

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

Oh and I hope you enjoy your G1 when you get it, such a nice marker. I love how the trigger feels on it. This marker is going to get you addicted to paintball haha :)

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#34 Orange Chicken

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

That new GoG eNMEy looks very promising; I already preordered one. The fact that it was a factory made, mass produced mechanical spool sold it for me. I also like how it includes the clamping feedneck, bolt-out-back, and a regulator just added to my interest. Regardless of how good the Tippmann 98 Custom might be for you, I think you'd appreciate the GoG eNMEy as almost every aspect of it is better than on the 98.

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#35 dustyshouri

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

That new GoG eNMEy looks very promising; I already preordered one. The fact that it was a factory made, mass produced mechanical spool sold it for me. I also like how it includes the clamping feedneck, bolt-out-back, and a regulator just added to my interest. Regardless of how good the Tippmann 98 Custom might be for you, I think you'd appreciate the GoG eNMEy as almost every aspect of it is better than on the 98.


The new eNMEy is the one that's supposed to replace 98's right? No electronics and around $150? Aye I saw that, in fact I think in the future I will keep that in mind for my nephew who also paintballs with us; I think the only downside is it's quite not milsim enough for him(he's only 12, so you know, he wants his gun to look kick-ass) but if he doesn't want it I'll keep a recommendation for another in our group who I mentioned in the first post who kept having the balls explode in his marker every game.

However as far as I know no one truly knows just how reliable the marker is yet, which is a deciding factor against the 98.

#36 PBhubbs

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

GoG eNVy or eXTcy are both really good for the price in my opinion.

#37 dustyshouri

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

Alright, I'm back and with my new marker :) fun fun! Though, I did have a ton of problems for a while. Eventually I got it upgraded with the blackheart board, but that was just for the eyes(everyone says the G-1 doesn't break paint, but get the eyes anyways).

I was hoping to get that Pinokio hopper for Christmas but was surprised with something else. Which is fine, we're not going out paintballing for a while so I can save up and get that when I need to... or and which is why I'm here, should I get something else? I can't full-auto at my fields, and I don't ramp or anything(in fact I set my boards auto to only 12bps). If anything, I want to 3-burst selectively. Is it worth the extra money to get a Pinokio? I mean, I can understand future-proofing, but do I really need a hopper that feeds that fast when I can't full-auto and I don't ramp? The only thing that interests me in the Pinokio is just how much praise it gets and the extra capacity. However the sales price right now is $90 on ANS, should I opt out of the Pinokio and get a cheaper feeder? My local shop has a Halo Too for $60, or I was also looking at the Fasta or SSL-200. My only interest is that the hopper should be able to hold a standard size pod of paintballs. Are there other things I should be looking out here or what? If I opt out of the Pinokio I could save some money and buy some odds and ends that I need(tank cover and things like that), but if it really is worth it for the Pinokio in my situation I'll go for that instead.

What's my best option here?

#38 Chicago Paintballer

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

I wouldn't know what to tell you about the Fasta but I own both a Halo Too and a Pinokio. I bought the Pinokio off of ANS recently because of the special. I would recommend getting it seeing as it's basically a steal. The Halo Too is a good loader as well but it's a little rougher on paint than the pinokio seeing as it was made for low quality paint. The pinokio is also a little easier to maintain and clean, in my opinion. It's also pretty basic, put batteries, turn on, and you're good to go. With the Too, you can mess around with the settings for speed and pressure put into the ball stack but I think the Pinokio would be less of a hassle in the long run.
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#39 MinnesotaPaintballer

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

I have an SP-1 and a Pinokio hopper. I was wondering about that myself, as I bought the Pinokio on ansgear when they had their Black Friday sale. I had a tippmann sl-200 loader, which is basically a poor man's pinokio. It feeds 15bps, and operates like the pinokio. It takes one 9v battery instead of two, and has the same simplicity and reliability as the Pinokio. You can find it new for about $50. I would reccommend that, because the only real advantage the pinokio has over it for you is capacity, and unless you really want to run some paint through your gun you won't need it. ...the Pinokio is great, though. It really looks nice on the gun.

#40 bigx

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:35 PM

Um im going to be that guy and say if you can afford it pick up a rotor. I have had every other hopper imaginable except the nokio and the Spire and the Rotor does everything I have asked it to and that is feed paint without fail. Its expensive but there is a reason its the most common hopper out there.

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#41 dustyshouri

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:38 AM

Ya, I really can't afford the rotor on my budget. The only reason the Pinokio is a consideration is because they're on sale.

Edited by dustyshouri, 02 January 2013 - 01:40 AM.


#42 dustyshouri

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

Also, do electric guns with boards have a means to maintain user input(data, for example my custom max bps) without a battery?

#43 Orange Chicken

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

Um im going to be that guy and say if you can afford it pick up a rotor. I have had every other hopper imaginable except the nokio and the Spire and the Rotor does everything I have asked it to and that is feed paint without fail. Its expensive but there is a reason its the most common hopper out there.

This is really true. Its Rotors or Halos at my field. Ill soon be one of the few with a nice Spire.

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#44 MinnesotaPaintballer

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

Also, do electric guns with boards have a means to maintain user input(data, for example my custom max bps) without a battery?


Yeah.




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