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What is the quintessential "electronic marker"


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#1 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

I know there have been countless e-cockers and such magical beasts, but I want to know what you guys think first set the template as the first electronic marker? Like what set the bar for everything else?
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#2 Pyrate Jim

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

Jim Rice had the V6 Angel out in '96 for Who Dares Play (WDP) but only in the U.K.

Pneu Ventures had the Shocker available in the States in '97.

All the original Angels were left-handed because the guy who invented them was a southpaw, it was the second production run that was made for right-handed players.

The PVI Shocker (before SmartParts bought it out) was the only electro made for the handicapped. It came with a microjack allowing the use of a remote trigger.
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#3 drg

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:28 AM

Given your questions, hard to say anything other than the Angel. The basic design is used in EP guns today and it certainly set the bar back in the day.

Edited by drg, 26 November 2012 - 06:30 AM.

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#4 No Mercy Ever

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:11 PM

Not to argue, but my Angel, #507, is center feed. I have never seen an Angel with anything other than a center feed.

#5 Pyrate Jim

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

Not to argue, but my Angel, #507, is center feed. I have never seen an Angel with anything other than a center feed.


Sorry if I wasn't clear about that ~ it had nothing to do with the feed port, it was the breech opening the other way that made the first ones "off-handed".
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#6 CRU

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

Angel LED I think set the standard for electro's as far as cycle speed, trigger feel, and general badassery...

#7 Tri City Extreme

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

Something that is a little closer to today's electronic is the Diablo Matrix.

#8 The Inflicted

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

While its overall operation is more or less identical to the Angel's I've always thought that the Ground Zero Intimidator is the first electronic gun to really nail the formula in terms of configuration and ergonomics.
Today's egos use the same basic parts layout, albeit smaller.
Once the GZ showed that you can have an electronic gun with the same general form factor as an autococker, players really started to switch over in droves.

#9 No Mercy Ever

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

While its overall operation is more or less identical to the Angel's I've always thought that the Ground Zero Intimidator is the first electronic gun to really nail the formula in terms of configuration and ergonomics.
Today's egos use the same basic parts layout, albeit smaller.
Once the GZ showed that you can have an electronic gun with the same general form factor as an autococker, players really started to switch over in droves.


That is rather a confusing idea overall. Since Bob based the Intimidator line off of Spyders, two tubes, stacked tube, open bolt, and that the GZ had a slightly different frame from the 2k2, which was the only one that used that frame. The regular 2k2's had a frame that was pretty similar, ergo-wise, to Cockers. And that was before the GZ.

#10 The Inflicted

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:07 PM


While its overall operation is more or less identical to the Angel's I've always thought that the Ground Zero Intimidator is the first electronic gun to really nail the formula in terms of configuration and ergonomics.
Today's egos use the same basic parts layout, albeit smaller.
Once the GZ showed that you can have an electronic gun with the same general form factor as an autococker, players really started to switch over in droves.


That is rather a confusing idea overall. Since Bob based the Intimidator line off of Spyders, two tubes, stacked tube, open bolt, and that the GZ had a slightly different frame from the 2k2, which was the only one that used that frame. The regular 2k2's had a frame that was pretty similar, ergo-wise, to Cockers. And that was before the GZ.


You sure?
My recollection is that the GZ was released in March of 2002 and the "2K2" Intimidator and its derivatives didn't come out until November.




#11 TinyBear

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

Another vote for the Angles. Back in the day you had the Cockers and Mags as king then Angles showed up and that was it for mechs. From then on in the Cockers and Mags died down and Electros took off. Sadly Angles fell too though i never owned one (always loved my mags) i always admired the sleekish design that cool flip out bolt.
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#12 The Inflicted

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

Another vote for the Angles. Back in the day you had the Cockers and Mags as king then Angles showed up and that was it for mechs. From then on in the Cockers and Mags died down and Electros took off. Sadly Angles fell too though i never owned one (always loved my mags) i always admired the sleekish design that cool flip out bolt.


I don't think this is true.
Even after the Angel had been out for a while and had gone through a couple years of improvements, the mechanical autococker was still the king of tournament paintball for about 5 years.
A lot of the top-ranked teams of the time like Image, Aftershock, and the Ironmen were very slow to give up their 'cockers.
Again, I think it was the second generation of Intimidators, starting with the GZ, and later the Matrix line of guns that really lead to widespread dominance of electros on the tournament scene.

#13 No Mercy Ever

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

Another vote for the Angles. Back in the day you had the Cockers and Mags as king then Angles showed up and that was it for mechs. From then on in the Cockers and Mags died down and Electros took off. Sadly Angles fell too though i never owned one (always loved my mags) i always admired the sleekish design that cool flip out bolt.


Like Inflicted said, I agree with him, that Mags and Cockers were still very popular and continued to dominate until around 2001 or 2002. The electros available until WC 2K2 were the Shocker, Angel, Matrix, Excalibur, and Defiant. Might have missed something there. With what was considered the Pro's back in the day, Avalanche used Angels, AA's used Shockers, and everyone else was using mostly Mags and Cockers. I think that Image may have used the Matrix actually.


Another vote for the Angles. Back in the day you had the Cockers and Mags as king then Angles showed up and that was it for mechs. From then on in the Cockers and Mags died down and Electros took off. Sadly Angles fell too though i never owned one (always loved my mags) i always admired the sleekish design that cool flip out bolt.


I don't think this is true.
Even after the Angel had been out for a while and had gone through a couple years of improvements, the mechanical autococker was still the king of tournament paintball for about 5 years.
A lot of the top-ranked teams of the time like Image, Aftershock, and the Ironmen were very slow to give up their 'cockers.
Again, I think it was the second generation of Intimidators, starting with the GZ, and later the Matrix line of guns that really lead to widespread dominance of electros on the tournament scene.


My understanding was that the Gen 1 had what we consider the Classic, and the limited Ripper. Then Bob came out with the 2k2, with the GZ being a special edition one for Ground Zero. Other than the milling, the biggest difference is the grip frame, with the 2k2's getting clam shells, and the GZ getting a .45 frame.

#14 TinyBear

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:33 AM

Ok it did not happen over night not what I meant but the angle really was the marker that really changed the game. It was the one back in the day people wanted. It and the other early on electros are the ones that made AGD and WGP build electros to try and stay in the game.

Actually the real big game changer I guess was not a marker at all it was the halo hopper something finally able to feed the faster rates the new electros were capable. But I still maintain the Angel was what facilitated the need for faster feeders.

And I ain't a Angel fan boy. I just respect them. Personally I more a mech mag guy it's my preference and in a way I wish mechs were still top of the food chain. Remember watching skyball live back in 99 and 2000 I think back when I was kinda new to the game. That was entertaining paintball.
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#15 The Inflicted

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:44 AM

Actually the real big game changer I guess was not a marker at all it was the halo hopper something finally able to feed the faster rates the new electros were capable.



Very, very true.

#16 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

I would also have to agree with the Angel. I remember back when I started playing (somewhere around 2005) everyone went on and on about how Angels were the best and whatnot. I would have to say that because it was a game changer and it's reputation that it would have to be the quintessential electronic marker

#17 Deftone

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:11 AM

I was deep into the tournament scene back then...
The Angel LED was the gun that really turned the public on to E guns...Pneu-Ventures had the Shocker out prior to the Angel but it never really took off "It was the size of a Toyota Prius and a crazy air hog" but there were a few around...I remember when the Angel LED hit the tournament scene, they were insane fast "for the time" and would turn a Revolution full of paint into a cocktail in no time flat. We were all shooting Cockers & Mags, I remember people being a little freaked when they heard someone fanning the trigger on a LED...But then we soon learned they were paint blenders when you really ripped on them and the fear soon left us, lol.
Cockers stayed really relevant in tournament ball into the early 2000's...The advent of X-Ball started killing off the cockers..Mags, for the most part, had started phasing out a little before that for tournament players "yes a few still shot them".
As far as the guy above talking about the GZ "Ground Zero" Timmy, that was the first real Private Label timmy...Bob Long had made the timmy for a year or two before that "see Classic Timmy" but the GZ was put on a diet and the overall profile of the gun was shaved down since Bob had figured out how to make it into a smaller package by that time...If I remember right the GZ hit the scene in 2k1, then Bob built on that platform, added a LCD screen "GZ's were LED guns" and came out with the 2k2 version then all the private labels.

#18 No Mercy Ever

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

I was deep into the tournament scene back then...
The Angel LED was the gun that really turned the public on to E guns...Pneu-Ventures had the Shocker out prior to the Angel but it never really took off "It was the size of a Toyota Prius and a crazy air hog" but there were a few around...I remember when the Angel LED hit the tournament scene, they were insane fast "for the time" and would turn a Revolution full of paint into a cocktail in no time flat. We were all shooting Cockers & Mags, I remember people being a little freaked when they heard someone fanning the trigger on a LED...But then we soon learned they were paint blenders when you really ripped on them and the fear soon left us, lol.
Cockers stayed really relevant in tournament ball into the early 2000's...The advent of X-Ball started killing off the cockers..Mags, for the most part, had started phasing out a little before that for tournament players "yes a few still shot them".
As far as the guy above talking about the GZ "Ground Zero" Timmy, that was the first real Private Label timmy...Bob Long had made the timmy for a year or two before that "see Classic Timmy" but the GZ was put on a diet and the overall profile of the gun was shaved down since Bob had figured out how to make it into a smaller package by that time...If I remember right the GZ hit the scene in 2k1, then Bob built on that platform, added a LCD screen "GZ's were LED guns" and came out with the 2k2 version then all the private labels.


You forgot about the Ripper, which was released during the 1st generation, dual LPR's and funky grip with built in drop forward.

#19 Cpt Bebop

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

Ill bring up the black sheep here: smart parts

The impulse was available in 2000 and brought angel speed and shot quality to the masses, then tgey did it again in 2004 with the ion. I know many hate on them, and that's fine, but as a former smart parts team shooter I feel they get overlooked as the "electro" as an everyday shooter

#20 Deftone

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:34 AM


I was deep into the tournament scene back then...
The Angel LED was the gun that really turned the public on to E guns...Pneu-Ventures had the Shocker out prior to the Angel but it never really took off "It was the size of a Toyota Prius and a crazy air hog" but there were a few around...I remember when the Angel LED hit the tournament scene, they were insane fast "for the time" and would turn a Revolution full of paint into a cocktail in no time flat. We were all shooting Cockers & Mags, I remember people being a little freaked when they heard someone fanning the trigger on a LED...But then we soon learned they were paint blenders when you really ripped on them and the fear soon left us, lol.
Cockers stayed really relevant in tournament ball into the early 2000's...The advent of X-Ball started killing off the cockers..Mags, for the most part, had started phasing out a little before that for tournament players "yes a few still shot them".
As far as the guy above talking about the GZ "Ground Zero" Timmy, that was the first real Private Label timmy...Bob Long had made the timmy for a year or two before that "see Classic Timmy" but the GZ was put on a diet and the overall profile of the gun was shaved down since Bob had figured out how to make it into a smaller package by that time...If I remember right the GZ hit the scene in 2k1, then Bob built on that platform, added a LCD screen "GZ's were LED guns" and came out with the 2k2 version then all the private labels.


You forgot about the Ripper, which was released during the 1st generation, dual LPR's and funky grip with built in drop forward.

True there was a ripper, but it was just a different milled version of the original Intimidator...Bob has done numerous "Ripper guns" over the years since then. When I say the GZ version was the first "Private Label" I kind mean Team Gun...There have been millions "well, maybe not millions" since then but that was the first Team Timmy and it was also a new spin on the original design. The old Ripper was cool though, I always wanted one of them..They looked good when people started putting GZ grip frames on them to lower the profile and not make it look like a big fish.

#21 Deftone

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

Ill bring up the black sheep here: smart parts

The impulse was available in 2000 and brought angel speed and shot quality to the masses, then tgey did it again in 2004 with the ion. I know many hate on them, and that's fine, but as a former smart parts team shooter I feel they get overlooked as the "electro" as an everyday shooter

Smart Parts made E guns affordable and they did put them in a lot more peoples hands...I'll give them that much. There were numerous stacked tube E guns that hit the market around that time...Impulse, ICD Bushmaster, Bob Long Defiant, Tribal Twister. Within a 6 month window there the market got hit with a bunch of them but from sales numbers the old Imp was king. I was running the showroom at C.O. Paintball in Columbus, OH when the Impulse hit the market, we were the first store in the country to have one on the shelf. It was like serial number 00001 "forget how many 0's actually", that was pre Vision eye and pre Impulse threaded barrel...Then they used a Shocker threaded barrel and cut the receiver end of it down a little bit.

#22 No Mercy Ever

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:20 PM



I was deep into the tournament scene back then...
The Angel LED was the gun that really turned the public on to E guns...Pneu-Ventures had the Shocker out prior to the Angel but it never really took off "It was the size of a Toyota Prius and a crazy air hog" but there were a few around...I remember when the Angel LED hit the tournament scene, they were insane fast "for the time" and would turn a Revolution full of paint into a cocktail in no time flat. We were all shooting Cockers & Mags, I remember people being a little freaked when they heard someone fanning the trigger on a LED...But then we soon learned they were paint blenders when you really ripped on them and the fear soon left us, lol.
Cockers stayed really relevant in tournament ball into the early 2000's...The advent of X-Ball started killing off the cockers..Mags, for the most part, had started phasing out a little before that for tournament players "yes a few still shot them".
As far as the guy above talking about the GZ "Ground Zero" Timmy, that was the first real Private Label timmy...Bob Long had made the timmy for a year or two before that "see Classic Timmy" but the GZ was put on a diet and the overall profile of the gun was shaved down since Bob had figured out how to make it into a smaller package by that time...If I remember right the GZ hit the scene in 2k1, then Bob built on that platform, added a LCD screen "GZ's were LED guns" and came out with the 2k2 version then all the private labels.


You forgot about the Ripper, which was released during the 1st generation, dual LPR's and funky grip with built in drop forward.

True there was a ripper, but it was just a different milled version of the original Intimidator...Bob has done numerous "Ripper guns" over the years since then. When I say the GZ version was the first "Private Label" I kind mean Team Gun...There have been millions "well, maybe not millions" since then but that was the first Team Timmy and it was also a new spin on the original design. The old Ripper was cool though, I always wanted one of them..They looked good when people started putting GZ grip frames on them to lower the profile and not make it look like a big fish.


I believe that the BL Ironmen all used Rippers. Although not a private label team marker, at first, only his team guys had them. Then they were sold to the public, much like the other PL stuff.

#23 Deftone

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:36 AM




I was deep into the tournament scene back then...
The Angel LED was the gun that really turned the public on to E guns...Pneu-Ventures had the Shocker out prior to the Angel but it never really took off "It was the size of a Toyota Prius and a crazy air hog" but there were a few around...I remember when the Angel LED hit the tournament scene, they were insane fast "for the time" and would turn a Revolution full of paint into a cocktail in no time flat. We were all shooting Cockers & Mags, I remember people being a little freaked when they heard someone fanning the trigger on a LED...But then we soon learned they were paint blenders when you really ripped on them and the fear soon left us, lol.
Cockers stayed really relevant in tournament ball into the early 2000's...The advent of X-Ball started killing off the cockers..Mags, for the most part, had started phasing out a little before that for tournament players "yes a few still shot them".
As far as the guy above talking about the GZ "Ground Zero" Timmy, that was the first real Private Label timmy...Bob Long had made the timmy for a year or two before that "see Classic Timmy" but the GZ was put on a diet and the overall profile of the gun was shaved down since Bob had figured out how to make it into a smaller package by that time...If I remember right the GZ hit the scene in 2k1, then Bob built on that platform, added a LCD screen "GZ's were LED guns" and came out with the 2k2 version then all the private labels.


You forgot about the Ripper, which was released during the 1st generation, dual LPR's and funky grip with built in drop forward.

True there was a ripper, but it was just a different milled version of the original Intimidator...Bob has done numerous "Ripper guns" over the years since then. When I say the GZ version was the first "Private Label" I kind mean Team Gun...There have been millions "well, maybe not millions" since then but that was the first Team Timmy and it was also a new spin on the original design. The old Ripper was cool though, I always wanted one of them..They looked good when people started putting GZ grip frames on them to lower the profile and not make it look like a big fish.


I believe that the BL Ironmen all used Rippers. Although not a private label team marker, at first, only his team guys had them. Then they were sold to the public, much like the other PL stuff.

True, most his guys did have Rippers as their main guns...But it was still an Intimidator with slightly different "cool" milling...The GZ, in a sense, was a whole different gun since he made the body a lot smaller and really sized the grip frame down....Internally they still worked the same but it was a lot lighter, more compact package...The original Ripper was just an intimidator with some lipstick to pretty it up.
Think of the original Intimidator and Ripper as a ugly chick getting glamour shots taken, the dress her up and smear on the make up to make her look less disgusting for the glamour shots, but deep down inside she's still that same old ugly chick...


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