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Is this the end of the Vanguard Creed?


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#1 unfated33

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

I doubt this is a surprise to just about everyone, but the Vanguard USA paintball website does not list the Vanguard Creed as a marker for sale any longer. They only list the Demon and Avalanche demon for sale, and then the shop offers spare parts for Creed markers. I'm not sure how long the website has been changed to only market the Demon, but at least as recently as late fall they still had the Creed displayed on the website.

It's not hard to imagine that the Creed's removal was due to the dispute between Vanguard and Alex Hodge, as either Alex won or got a settlement from Vanguard not to sell the marker anymore or Frank wisely pulled the marker to avoid any future legal action against him. What I'd like to know is how likely it will be to see the Creed or a marker similar to it come back onto the market?

The Creed has a lot of positive features, including smoothness for a poppet, aesthetics, and maintenance. I think the price point was a bit of a struggle, as like the Alien, it would seem to fall through the cracks between a mid-end marker and a high-end marker. I don't think it necessarily counts as a positive, but the ability to take the body and covert it into an automag "creemag" also is a nice touch.

Back to the topic, what are the odds that we'll see the Creed or its descendant re-enter the paintball market?
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#2 cockerpunk

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

i think frank told Hodges to pound sand.

i think the reason its been discontinued is that no one bought it.
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#3 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

I would have to say it was because of low sales. The V1's had a bad rep, and although the problems were solved with the V2's, they still came in at 1300 dollars. I think they went down to 850, but I think that many people just didn't know they were still around. They aren't sold in very many places, which always has a negative effect on sales.

But to be honest, I kinda doubt that Vanguard will just shelf the whole platform. It's a good gun and the design was by no means outdated or seriously flawed. I would put my money on it coming back at some point if it hasn't already left.

PunishersPB and Hustle Paintball I believe still has some for 800 dollars, and I would recommend it. I bought one used not too long ago, and I'm really happy with it, from the packaging, the way it shoots, and the maintenance is really simple for it, as I took it apart all the way down to the valve core to clean it up and it took relatively low effort compared to other guns I've owned.

#4 cocker addict

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

I think the odds of seeing another marker out of vanguard are pretty good. Frank is a great guy and is consistently moving forward in the industry.

#5 andrewthewookie

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

aesthetics

The Creed would have been much better without that giant spoiler on the back. It's not like we need the downforce, just make it more streamlined already.

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#6 TechPB-Mike

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

Yea the poor Creed...

It just seems like they rushed (or ran out of money) to get it to the market. If you are going to charge the same prices as Bob Long, Planet, MacDev & Dye, you better be on par with their quality. The Creed unfortunately was not

The rubber pad that covered the USB port and buttons on the back was glued on, and would come off. This would clog your USB jack and the gun couldn't be charged.

The biggest problem with Vanguard was there never seemed to be any clear place to get the guns serviced. I also remember that KEE was supposed to buy the Vanguard Creed, remember that? They were going to strip down the packaging and possibly sell it under $900? That didn't happen either

The company is in transition right now, we'll see what happens over the next year or two

#7 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

If you really want one, Tri-City Extreme has a few on their website, I believe.

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#8 L_x

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

There was definitely no settlement or "win" from my perspective at all. My company will be operating at a loss for the next 2-3 years as a result.

From what I know the creed was discontinued so that Frank and co. could focus on the Demon. Also, it desperately needed a refreshed design internally and externally, and as all of the designers were long gone it wasn't going to happen. Similar reason why the Demon still looks the way it did in 2007. :)

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#9 unfated33

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

There was definitely no settlement or "win" from my perspective at all. My company will be operating at a loss for the next 2-3 years as a result.

From what I know the creed was discontinued so that Frank and co. could focus on the Demon. Also, it desperately needed a refreshed design internally and externally, and as all of the designers were long gone it wasn't going to happen. Similar reason why the Demon still looks the way it did in 2007. :)

In my mind, that pretty much answers the question as, "Yes." :\

Personally, I liked the spoiler on the back. Put it side by side with the Ego 11 and the Creed was a much better looking marker... from the spoiler to the eye covers to the HPR.
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#10 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

I personally like the spoiler. My thoughts are if they wanted to make it sell better they would have to:

1. Refine the milling and the looks of it. Like mine has a couple rough edges on it. Nothing noticeable when playing, but annoying to look at.

2. Fix the small things (i.e. the rubber back pad, the one on mine is even broke)

3. Keep the packaging, that was top notch.

4. The pricing. If they did all the things above and priced it in direct competition with the Ego, maybe a little less, that would be a good price point for it IMO.

5. Fix the warranty work situation. Establish a place that owners know that they can send their gun to to be fixed.

If they did all of that, they would have a pretty good addition to the supergun market.

#11 -ORaNGe-

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

The Creed wasn't being produced or actively sold by Vanguard this time last year when Citrus was picked up as a sponsored team and it hadn't been produced for a while. The Creed made a decent number of sales but what it comes down to is this, the gun came out in what? 2008? People want the latest and greatest, hence why you see a new DM every year which is the same gun as last year yet people still buy it.

The focus is the Demon, sales have increased greatly with the new 2013 version, Frank is moving production to the US which will help with several areas. I'd expect to see the overall product improving in regards to manufacturing quality, parts being more readily available and far greater technical service. Frank himself will be doing some of the work in Florida, there is Vanguard NE run by David Archibald and Michael Koker, I believe Recon Paintball in Kitchener will be handling a lot of sales and servicing here in Ontario and Citrus will soon have 3-4 certified techs as well.

I'd expect to see some good things out of Vanguard, "if" there is another poppet coming out I'll likely be involved in the design process helping to make the gun more user and tech friendly, then being cool as fuck playing with a taped gun on the field =). Frank is a pro player and an awesome tech, he looks at guns from the perspective of someone whose an expert at working on guns. What I bring to the table is the outlook of the clueless paintballer who will call the gun shit because he took the frame screws out and ripped the two halves apart and tore his eye wires off the board XD.

#12 TECHDP=)

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

Their was that Empire Creed.
It was a creed with a big empire logo on the sides.

#13 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

I see them quite often, its unbelievable the price they can be had for now.

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#14 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

I see them quite often, its unbelievable the price they can be had for now.

For the prices you can get them for now, it smokes just about anything else in the price range, new or used.




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