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ROF - Ramping, semi-auto, Full-auto, burst fire


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#1 Bugman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:05 PM

Returning player, I got out last October for the first time in several years. I used a 98c and a Axe belonging to a friend. Field was semi only.

Some questions on different ROF.

What would you say the ROF would be for certain setups.

1) Tippmann 98c with just a standard gravity hopper?

2) Tippman A5 with standard cyclone feed and just standard trigger?

Programming issues????

3) Axe stock with a power hopper like a Rotor? In semi mode. Can the ROF in semi be capped at a lessor ROF?

4) Any High End (G6R, Ego, DM, ect... your choice) with a power hopper? In semi mode. Can the ROF in semi be capped at a lessor ROF?

5) How would Ramping change the ROF of the electro guns above? can the ramping be set a certain max ROF?



I was playing on a field with a wide range of guns. 98c, A5, Spyders, low/high end electro's, and some others I am sure. About 60/70 players. During the time I was using my 98c, I really never felt at a disadvantage. I am sure I faceed a mix of guns. The Axe was a sweet shooting gun and very lightweight with a CF 50/4500 tank on it. Woodsball with many bunkers and buildings. Lots of cover but you can get plenty of max range shots.

Background

Never felt uneasy taking a rental 98 out and going head to head with Automags/Auto Cockers back in the mid to late 90's?

Trying to get a general feel for the modern Game. Plan to play more this year. Mostly at this field but some speedball indoor/outdoor.

Edited by Bugman, 29 January 2013 - 12:09 PM.


#2 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

Rates of fire for paintball guns are seen much differently than they used to be. It used to be a competition to see who had the faster gun. Nowadays, if you are shooting over 12.5bps you are being kind of a tool.

With semi, it's always been as fast as you can pull the trigger. But while most of the high end guns can still shoot fairly fast, in most cases it's frowned upon to shoot higher than 12.5bps, which is the ROF the PSP uses for ramping.

And yes, a lot of the higher end guns can cap the ROF at whatever the user wants. But 90 percent of the time anything more than a 12.5bps ramping mode is considered overkill, and just about any electronic gun nowadays can achieve that ROF and have all the modes you could want or need.

#3 Steephill

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

A5 and 98 speeds will be about 6bps I'd say, as long as the gravity feed on the 98 doesnt jam. Axe, G6r etc will be dependent on how well you can walk the trigger on semi. Some triggers are better than others, allowing for slight variations in speed. They'll all be about the same though. ROF can usually be capped on semi. Ramping allows you to shoot more than 1 ball for trigger pull. NXL ramping turns the gun full auto up to the cap after 4 trigger pulls, PSP turns into 3 shot burst after the first 3 trigger pulls, Millennium bumps you up to your cap as long as you keep at or above 8bps.

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#4 Bugman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:20 PM

Rates of fire for paintball guns are seen much differently than they used to be. It used to be a competition to see who had the faster gun. Nowadays, if you are shooting over 12.5bps you are being kind of a tool.

With semi, it's always been as fast as you can pull the trigger. But while most of the high end guns can still shoot fairly fast, in most cases it's frowned upon to shoot higher than 12.5bps, which is the ROF the PSP uses for ramping.

And yes, a lot of the higher end guns can cap the ROF at whatever the user wants. But 90 percent of the time anything more than a 12.5bps ramping mode is considered overkill, and just about any electronic gun nowadays can achieve that ROF and have all the modes you could want or need.


Does it take a electro gun in a Rammping mode to achieve a 12.5 BPS rof?

Or can this be done in semi mode? if not what is the BPS for most guns in semi with a power hopper?

Having a hard time understanding Ramping. I understand burst or full auto. But even 12.5 BPS sounds real fast to me.

#5 Bugman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

A5 and 98 speeds will be about 6bps I'd say, as long as the gravity feed on the 98 doesnt jam. Axe, G6r etc will be dependent on how well you can walk the trigger on semi. Some triggers are better than others, allowing for slight variations in speed. They'll all be about the same though. ROF can usually be capped on semi. Ramping allows you to shoot more than 1 ball for trigger pull. NXL ramping turns the gun full auto up to the cap after 4 trigger pulls, PSP turns into 3 shot burst after the first 3 trigger pulls, Millennium bumps you up to your cap as long as you keep at or above 8bps.



So "walking the trigger" is different than Ramping? This is a technique used with electro guns in semi mode? is it possible to reach the 12.5 BPS rate in semi with certain guns?

Ramping covers several different standards then? It is a generic term for these hyper ROF's?

#6 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

Does it take a electro gun in a Rammping mode to achieve a 12.5 BPS rof?

Or can this be done in semi mode? if not what is the BPS for most guns in semi with a power hopper?

Having a hard time understanding Ramping. I understand burst or full auto. But even 12.5 BPS sounds real fast to me.

Ramping is a specific firing mode for electronic markers. It involves about two shots at 1bps, which then unlocks a 3 shot burst at 12.5bps, but you must pull the trigger at 5bps to maintain the ramp. After one second below the minimum ROF, the gun goes back into the 1bps "unlock mode". Ramping refers to any firing mode similar to this, where the gun will shoot faster than the user pulls the trigger.

Walking the trigger refers to how the user pulls the trigger, alternating between the middle finger and index finger on a double trigger. It is called "walking" because you move both fingers back and forth and alternate which finger hits the trigger, similar to how your legs move when walking.

Mechanical guns can achieve similar rates of fire, but it is more difficult and they cannot maintain the same precise ROF that an electro can.

Edited by PREDATOR 47, 29 January 2013 - 12:35 PM.


#7 parasyte

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:55 PM

So "walking the trigger" is different than Ramping? This is a technique used with electro guns in semi mode? is it possible to reach the 12.5 BPS rate in semi with certain guns?

Ramping covers several different standards then? It is a generic term for these hyper ROF's?


Ramping is just a term for guns that are set neither fully automatic nor semi-only. There have been a few different tournament ramping standards and most boards that do ramping can be configured to do all sorts of exotic ramp methods. The only real common parts of ramping are 1) a gun fires semi-automatic under a certain trigger speed and 2) above the set speed, the gun is allowed to fire more shots than trigger pulls.

Practiced users can definitely exceed 12.5BPS in semi-only mode; the NPPL rules specify 15BPS as a limit even though that league does not allow any ramping or burst fire. I believe that limit is there because it's a limit in the ASTM standard defining paintball guns (though only called out specifically for automatic/burst mode guns).

#8 Bugman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

So a electro gun with some skill can reach 12-15 bps even in semi mode? So they do have a good advantage over mech guns.

#9 awesompants

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:03 PM

Some people can get over 20bps in semi. But that'd be way overkill. And yes, they do have a good advantage over mech, but it all comes down to the player. Not the marker.

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#10 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

So a electro gun with some skill can reach 12-15 bps even in semi mode? So they do have a good advantage over mech guns.


I can hit 18-19 bps on a good day walking the trigger. Of course, thats screwing around in the chrono range, I cap myself at 15 on semi in games most of the time. Yes, they have an advantage, but it depends far more on the player. I play pump a good bit of my time and its the disadvantage that makes it fun lol. Plus, its funny when the guy pelts you with 50 paintballs, and non of them hit, and then you pop them with one and they are out. Now for speedball especially, an electronic marker does give you an advantage of being able to sling more paint, but if you can't aim at all its no use.
As far certain guns, a 98 w/ a grav hopper will go 5-7 bps if you really rip on it. A cyclone feed will feed as fast as the A-5 can shoot, if it is electronic. If mech its about the same as a 98. An axe or any highend with a Rotor will shoot pretty much as fast as you can pull the trigger, even into the 20bps range. You can always cap most markers down to a specific rate of fire, even in semi.
As for a ramping explanation, think of it like this. In a video game, you "unlock" a powerup or ability that makes your character better, but you have to play levels first. Ramping is similar. If you shoot a certain bps or above, you will "unlock" the 3shots/trigger pull mode, or whatever mode it is. And yes, the ramping can and SHOULD be capped, normally at 12.5bps. So even though you are firing 3 shots/trigger pull, That will only happen up to 12.5 bps, and if you are pulling faster than that rate, it will still shoot that rate.
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#11 Bugman

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:04 AM

All of you have helped to clear this up for me. Thank you.




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