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Airsoft Glasses vs paintballs


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#1 vijil

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:22 AM

So there's a milsim club here in my town who started off with RAM markers (.43 cal powderball) but have expanded to shoot pretty much anything including paintball MGs for heavy support, etc. - including .68 cal powderball.

Here's the rub: many of them don't bother with goggles at all, instead wearing unsealed airsoft glasses. I guess they think it looks cooler.
They do use minimum engagement distances and are pretty strict on gun safety, but seem to have no idea that paintball safety isn't quite the same as real gun safety. They've taken the attitude that each player is responsible for their own safety - if you don't want to war proper eyewear they wont make you. It's kind of annoying since I'd like to play some milsim/magfed and this is the only club in this city, but they are clowns.

Anyway what I'd like to see is what happens when a .68 cal paintball hits the lens of a pair of unsealed airsoft glasses. I understand that a shot near the lens is likely to send fragments under the glasses and into the eye, but what about a direct hit? Will they even stop it? Will the lens pop out?

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^ note .68 cal ram shotgun, and dude with unsealed glasses. It's not just staged, that's how they play.

Edited by vijil, 08 February 2013 - 04:31 AM.

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#2 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

I highly doubt airsoft lenses will even come close to stopping a .68 paintball or any paintball for that matter. The energy from the mass of a paintball flying through the air at 200 mph versus an airsoft pellet isnt even close. The lens will just shatter and you'll not only have that but a paintball in your eye. I wouldn't play with them.

Edited by XGC_Cheevo, 08 February 2013 - 09:44 AM.


#3 cockerpunk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

easy one to test ...
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#4 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:55 AM

I would also avoid them. Even if they sign waivers acknowledging their stupidity, I wouldn't want to deal with an attempted lawsuit resulting from their need to look cool instead of being safe.

Those little glasses will not stop a paintball, much less stop the fragmentation. As soon as one of those guys takes a hit from a powderball to the mouth, nose, or ears, much less their eyes they will wear a mask. If not, they are dumb enough that their stupidity alone would keep me away.

It's all fun and games until someone takes their eye out.

#5 paintballguy2255

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

Didn't they use goggles similar to these in the early years of the sport?

#6 madsnipes

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

A field in my area has a lot of airsoft wakons at the same time as the paintball walkons, they always tell us "Don't shoot at that field over there because the airsoft guys are playing and its unsafe to shoot them with paintballs"

however another thing to consider is the velocity, what fps do they chronograph their guns at? if its only like 200 or something then it might be safe

#7 paintballguy2255

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

some airsoft guns can shoot up to and past 500 fps.The goggles are good enough to stop them,and I think are rated for over 1000fps shots.

Edited by paintballguy2255, 08 February 2013 - 03:42 PM.


#8 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:21 PM

some airsoft guns can shoot up to and past 500 fps.The goggles are good enough to stop them,and I think are rated for over 1000fps shots.


Airsoft BB's might go twice as fast, but a paintball is 30x heavier.

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#9 paintballguy2255

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:43 PM


some airsoft guns can shoot up to and past 500 fps.The goggles are good enough to stop them,and I think are rated for over 1000fps shots.


Airsoft BB's might go twice as fast, but a paintball is 30x heavier.

Madsnipes asked what they chrono their guns at,and I told him some can go more than 2.5x his estimated speed of 200fps.And yes,a .68 caliber paintball at 300fps will do much more damage than a 6mm plastic pellet at roughly 500fps.

Also,there was this video that I can't find that showed this guy demonstrating these wire mesh goggles and how they were dangerous because they tore easily with only a few shots.

Edited by paintballguy2255, 08 February 2013 - 09:44 PM.


#10 Dakent

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

Paintball
17.322mm (67cal)
Roughly 3.0 grams
280 fps

Airsoft
6mm
.2 to .3 grams
400fps ( I think that's what legit fields cap at with .2 gram bb's)


If airsoft glasses are rated for 1000fps they will most likely not hold up against a paintball.
Now, some airsofters use glasses that are made out ANSI Z87.1-2003 +, MCEPS/ Military Ballistics Impact Standard Glass.


Got bored and did a little research :)

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#11 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

Now, some airsofters use glasses that are made out ANSI Z87.1-2003 +, MCEPS/ Military Ballistics Impact Standard Glass.


Got bored and did a little research :)


^that. most if not all airsoft fields require ANSI Z87.1 rated goggles, which happens to be the same as paintball goggles IIRC.
It's still gonna hurt like fuck since the glasses are sitting on your face.

#12 dustyshouri

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:47 AM

Am I the only one who tends to get hit in the face/mask/head every time I go out and play paintball?

Also comparing an airsoft pellet at 500fps to a paintball at 300fps is silly. I'm not all that great at physics, but I think to simply put it, the force of impact deals not only with velocity(fps in this case) but mass. A paintball weighs a lot more than an airsoft pellet, to the point even my crude math says an airsoft pellet traveling at 1000fps still doesn't compare to the force of a .68 paintball impact. However like I said, I'm not all that great at it so I really hope someone who knows their physics can come in and post the actual numbers of an airsoft impact vs paintball.

Edited by dustyshouri, 09 February 2013 - 02:04 AM.


#13 aj619

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:50 AM

All airsoft goggles have the same rating as paintball goggles they have to be for insurance purpose however I would still be wearing a full face mask for anything over 8mm (largest BB I've seen so far)
and yes those ESS goggles(at least they look like them) will stop a paintball I tested it personally cause I thought they were flimsy (the ESS are the ones the guy on the right in wearing)

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#14 brycelarson

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:27 AM

Paintball
17.322mm (67cal)
Roughly 3.0 grams
280 fps

Airsoft
6mm
.2 to .3 grams
400fps


formula for kinetic energy is 1/2 mass x velocity^2

so:
Paint - .5 *.003 kg * 92 m/s ^2 = I'll round it off to 12 joules
Airsoft (worst case .3g and 600 fps) - .5 * .0003 kg * 185 m/s ^2 = 5 joules

so at the worst an airsoft round has less than half the energy of a paintball

Am I the only one who tends to get hit in the face/mask/head every time I go out and play paintball?


Same here. If you're doing things right you should be shot in the gun and mask more than anywhere else. The goal of playing bunkers is to expose as little as possible - which means an eye to see and a gun to shoot.

The safety standard for both lenses is the same as I understand it. I don't have any airsoft masks - but this is a simple test. Get a mask, shoot it - report back.

I suggest that before anyone makes any more declarative statements someone needs to collect some data.

Edited by brycelarson, 09 February 2013 - 08:28 AM.


#15 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

If I can find my old FlakJak goggles I'll test that.

#16 rntlee

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

Heh



#17 cockerpunk

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:23 PM

why dont you try testing them? pretty simple ....
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#18 vijil

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:51 AM

Don't have money to burn on stuff I'll just break. Also worth checking if others have any knowledge.
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#19 Carolus Rex

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:42 AM


Paintball
17.322mm (67cal)
Roughly 3.0 grams
280 fps

Airsoft
6mm
.2 to .3 grams
400fps


formula for kinetic energy is 1/2 mass x velocity^2

so:
Paint - .5 *.003 kg * 92 m/s ^2 = I'll round it off to 12 joules
Airsoft (worst case .3g and 600 fps) - .5 * .0003 kg * 185 m/s ^2 = 5 joules

so at the worst an airsoft round has less than half the energy of a paintball

Am I the only one who tends to get hit in the face/mask/head every time I go out and play paintball?


Same here. If you're doing things right you should be shot in the gun and mask more than anywhere else. The goal of playing bunkers is to expose as little as possible - which means an eye to see and a gun to shoot.

The safety standard for both lenses is the same as I understand it. I don't have any airsoft masks - but this is a simple test. Get a mask, shoot it - report back.

I suggest that before anyone makes any more declarative statements someone needs to collect some data.


But don't forget that the surface area of the BB is smaller than the paintballs which means that the force is focused on a smaller point. And the paintball breaks which spreads the force more on the surface.

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#20 Blade of grass

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

That won't change the force transfered.

all my legos are stored at my parents hose... so that wont be happening....

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#21 Carolus Rex

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

That won't change the force transfered.


No it won't, but if the force is spread out there is still less stress on a single point. Ergo, less chance for the glass to break. Although this probably doesn't balance out the higher force of the paintball and the smaller impact surface of the BBs.

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#22 cockerpunk

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

Don't have money to burn on stuff I'll just break. Also worth checking if others have any knowledge.


wont cost you any money if they pass.

is your vision or someone else's worth less then 30 bucks?
The ultimate truth in paintball is that the interaction between the gun and the player is far and away the largest factor in accuracy, consistency, and reliability.

And yes, Gordon is the sexiest manifestation of "to the front."


#23 Danny D

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:34 PM


That won't change the force transfered.


No it won't, but if the force is spread out there is still less stress on a single point. Ergo, less chance for the glass to break. Although this probably doesn't balance out the higher force of the paintball and the smaller impact surface of the BBs.



It might, you never know. Paintballs deform much more than airsoft bb's. It may equate to the same force per area all things considered.


Someone needs to try this out.

#24 dazbag

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:28 AM

Carolus Rex is right. The surface area is important. I play Airsoft as well. I can tell you, this glasses will hold up a Paintball without a problem. Sure u shoot an aeg about between 1J and 2,8J in regular playing. Depending on ur role, the field etc.
U wouldnt believe, how much energy can be transfered from a BB. This bb is hard and wont break. This isnt a Paintball that will just splatter and lose his energy. This little bbs can get threw ur skin, even in ur flesh from low distance. Airsoft can hurt like hell. U dont want to be hit from a 2.5J airsoft gun from 10 Meters.
But i would never recommand to wear this googles. There are open from the sides and most are not hold tight in there place. I mean, if u shoot a burst into someone, the first shot could take his googles off, and the next will hit his eyes.


Im playing in veckring/france on a field, where both is allowed. Same issue as u told already. But its more wild west there. All players more do what they want. Its kinda always a war between both sides. I play both, and i play with a dye i4 mask. Paintball players are more responsible. My Expierience and my opinion.
Why they use those glassed? Airsoft gaming is different. U can shoot further and shoot straight. So u actucally can use ur sights. Thats why they often use glasses, to use the sights. The dyei4 is one of the slimest mask, that kinda work with that. Forget this will all others Paintball Masks. I already tried a few. All are to big. Just didnt try out the save phace mask, but the dye one is more modern, better ventilated and got thermal lenses.



#25 Jarmak

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:44 PM

Holy hell guys, ANSI Z87.1 are ballistic rated, as in we use them in the military to protect our eyes from real weapons, they can take a hit from a paintball. The issue is that paintballs break and splatter around the edges of those glasses.

#26 tyronejk

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:35 PM

Holy hell guys, ANSI Z87.1 are ballistic rated, as in we use them in the military to protect our eyes from real weapons, they can take a hit from a paintball. The issue is that paintballs break and splatter around the edges of those glasses.

Does "ballistic rated" mean they can stop a bullet without breaking?

#27 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:48 PM

Yes, but that doesn't mean your neck would snap from the sheer force of the bullet hitting your face.
I mean that thing travels at 1200 FPS or MORE and that force can seriously kill you just from impact, and not from the fragmentation.

But that's off topic, what's worrying is that there is no mouth protection.
I'd hate to see the day where one of them gets a mouth shot.

#28 rntlee

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:48 PM

Does "ballistic rated" mean they can stop a bullet without breaking?


Protector failure criteria will be based on any of the following:
• Piece fully detaches;
• Device fractures;
• Penetration of the rear surface;
• Lens not retained; or…
• For the high velocity test, if any piece of the device sticks to contact paste or if contact paste is on
the projectile or on the complete device.

High Mass and High Velocity Impact forces to be tested remain essentially the same as the prior
standard. The high mass pointed projectile is pointed and weighs 500 grams and is dropped from a height
of 50 inches. The high velocity test uses a steel ball .25 inches in diameter that is fired at 150 feet per
second at the lens in the test frame.


Taken from: https://www.uvexrx.c...in_Standard.pdf

Edited by rntlee, 13 February 2013 - 09:53 PM.


#29 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:22 PM

The surface area is definitely important, airsoft BB's may not have as much energy, but because they don't break the collision would be inelastic, and the smaller area will focus the energy on a smaller point, which has somewhat of an amplification of the felt energy transfer, while in reality the force transferred wouldn't be any different.

A paintball breaks and shatters upon impact, meaning that the time of impact is longer, making the felt transfer of energy less than the airsoft BB. It also spreads out the energy over a larger area.

Think about cars and how they're designed in a collision. Newer cars are designed to smash and compress upon impact, which makes the time of impact or transfer of energy longer, making the felt impact less severe than an older car, which is essentially a giant chunk of steel. Older cars had much more severe impacts because the time of impact was much shorter because they were designed to stay rigid in a collision, making the transferred amount of energy happen in a shorter period of time, which amplified the felt energy.

I hope I was right with this or I look like an idiot. :lol:

#30 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:50 PM

I call bullshit on these magical bulletproof glasses until proven otherwise.

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#31 TooTallNiCo

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:47 AM

Am I the only one who feels this is a Darwin Award waiting to happen?

About to go buy some airsoft goggles and make a 10 second video

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#32 tyronejk

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:08 PM

I call bullshit on these magical bulletproof glasses until proven otherwise.



#33 vijil

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:36 AM

thanks tootallnico :)

And yeah, ballistics glasses are not bulletproof. If they were then 2mm thick plastic body armor would be the standard for soldiers instead of plate steel or kevlar. Going up against a barret? 4mm and you're good to go... :dodgy:

Also, these guys often use .68 powderballs. Yeah.

Edited by vijil, 19 February 2013 - 02:40 AM.

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#34 vijil

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:10 PM

So get this, you're not going to believe it.

Turns out the guy who runs the milsim group I've mentioned here is also the boss of 3D modelling at Weta (who made LoTR etc.), with 160 staff under him.

Turns out I'm a 3D modeller who's been trying to get in there for ages.

Turns out he heard about this thread and is seriously pissed at me, and now I'm probably not going to be able to get a job there even though they're hiring because I've pissed off the management.

Yay me. How the hell was I supposed to know? Life's an utter bitch huh.

*****

That said, it also turns out that they all wear sealed goggles and the unsealed glasses thing isn't actually the case. Given that sealed AS goggles are fine for stopping a PB, I guess I have far less of an issue with them than I did. Personally the only mandatory protection is eyes - ears and mouth hurt and can cause damage but to nowhere near the same extent.

Edited by vijil, 25 February 2013 - 08:40 PM.

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#35 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:17 PM

Turns out he heard about this thread and is seriously pissed at me

He sounds like a titty.

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#36 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:21 PM


Turns out he heard about this thread and is seriously pissed at me

He sounds like a titty.

That squirts titty milk :dodgy:

What an ass.

#37 Uncas

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:47 PM

You can never be too safe. My next thought with glasses is that it doesn't matter if they can stop the paintball if they fly off your face any time they're hit. I would feel better about giving someone crap for a false safety breach than ignoring a real one. Apologising is easy, replacing people's eyes, not so much.

#38 NJC

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:53 PM

airsoft bbs .2 grams flying at 500 fps hit with .15 pounds of force
a paintball 3 grams flying at 300 fps hits with 1.5 pounds of force.
ten times the impact

and an almost completely unrelated topic for those who think paintball makes them tough, a lacrosse ball going 80 mph (which is a fairly normal shot speed) hits with 128 pounds of force

Edited by NJC, 03 March 2013 - 01:59 PM.

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#39 8765

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:16 AM

airsoft bbs .2 grams flying at 500 fps hit with .15 pounds of force
a paintball 3 grams flying at 300 fps hits with 1.5 pounds of force.
ten times the impact

and an almost completely unrelated topic for those who think paintball makes them tough, a lacrosse ball going 80 mph (which is a fairly normal shot speed) hits with 128 pounds of force


Lacrosse is an acceptable sport, yet paintball and airsoft are considered violent or whatever negative adjectives people think of. Genius.

Anyways, regardless of what the math tells you about BBs and paintballs, would you really want to take the chance with your eyes?
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#40 pc_baller

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:10 AM

So get this, you're not going to believe it.

Turns out the guy who runs the milsim group I've mentioned here is also the boss of 3D modelling at Weta (who made LoTR etc.), with 160 staff under him.

Turns out I'm a 3D modeller who's been trying to get in there for ages.

Turns out he heard about this thread and is seriously pissed at me, and now I'm probably not going to be able to get a job there even though they're hiring because I've pissed off the management.

Yay me. How the hell was I supposed to know? Life's an utter bitch huh.

*****

That said, it also turns out that they all wear sealed goggles and the unsealed glasses thing isn't actually the case. Given that sealed AS goggles are fine for stopping a PB, I guess I have far less of an issue with them than I did. Personally the only mandatory protection is eyes - ears and mouth hurt and can cause damage but to nowhere near the same extent.


just tell him you were concerned about his safety and well being :P and if that doesnt work just call him an asshole and show him how getting shot in the eye really feels lol
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#41 Carolus Rex

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:12 AM

TechPBs solution: Shit on his 3D model.

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#42 NJC

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:02 PM


airsoft bbs .2 grams flying at 500 fps hit with .15 pounds of force
a paintball 3 grams flying at 300 fps hits with 1.5 pounds of force.
ten times the impact

and an almost completely unrelated topic for those who think paintball makes them tough, a lacrosse ball going 80 mph (which is a fairly normal shot speed) hits with 128 pounds of force


Lacrosse is an acceptable sport, yet paintball and airsoft are considered violent or whatever negative adjectives people think of. Genius.

Anyways, regardless of what the math tells you about BBs and paintballs, would you really want to take the chance with your eyes?


i am not saying don't wear goggles, im just pullin up some figures here. a bb or a paintball could easily take out your eyes

I split my vote, half for etekgirl's body, half for her mind, because I respect a woman's mind just as much as her cans.
*Waits to get hit*


#43 brycelarson

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:29 AM

ok, anyone going to actually test this? If not, I'm closing the thread.

#44 lovebunny

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:39 AM

wheres the like putton when you need it.

shitt ore get off the shitter.
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#45 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:55 PM

Good news everybody, I've found my old flakjak goggles! I'll try to set up something tomorrow.

#46 Dogg3

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:41 AM

All that would be involved is buying a pair of airsoft glasses and shooting them?

If Panda doesn't come though, I'll do it.

Oh and in case this isn't unprofessional enough yet.

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#47 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 03:55 PM


Edited by Panda's Revenge, 28 April 2013 - 05:09 PM.


#48 Egomaniacal

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

You guys seem to be neglecting momentum, which is important since impulse seems to be the relevant quantity here. You're also completely neglecting the frames, regardless of how strong the lens is. They have to be strong enough to keep the lens away from the eye when hit with a paintball, which I find extremely dubious.


At any rate, I think glasses can too easily be knocked off someone's face to be safe for paintball, even if they could stop one. The second one is going to hurt a lot more.

edit: woops, didn't look past the first page.

Edited by Egomaniacal, 30 April 2013 - 03:07 PM.

eiπ = − 1




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