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#101 Jawz

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:46 PM

Look at dat barrel! DAMN! That a sexy ass barrel
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#102 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:48 PM

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#103 unfated33

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:38 AM

From the state of the gun post on May 14th (Facebook entry):

State of the Gun address:

As we push to LL6 I felt it was important to give everybody interested (including snarky commentators) an update. This is part apology, part mission statement, and partly it is the thing we wanted to let loose at LL6.

Initially an apology. We are close, and still might finish the guns for LL6. We had several growing pains, like getting insurance figured, where to source some parts (ever try and find 2x1mm o-rings locally in the states?) trying to figure out the CAD, and related. We had a few unavoidable things pop up also, like a CNC machine down for 12 days, and a death in the family. The Team has come very close. We could, and just might have everything together for LL6. Per the plan we would have made it with room to spare. Considering we rebuilt all the CAD files, put in every screw and o-ring, designed externals, and then the time to have them sourced and machined, we did damn good. But part of missing the deadlines has been my (Josh's) fault. I have been doing this while also working a normal, technical day job. It has meant late night on the CAD machine along with early morning talking to suppliers on Skype. Juggling work, planning phone calls during lunch, sneaking out an email here and there and way to many kids. That also cost us some deadlines, from my end. For that, I am sorry.

But from now on, for a short bit at least, I have no excuse. I turned over my major work projects from the day job last week, after sending a multimillion dollar job out for Construction, and bid work for 2 more (much smaller) jobs. I am unshackled and free to focus on this, for a few weeks at least, before they beg me to come back. If we do this well enough, I will not be going back. The gun has me full time as we birth this company.

The other bit I wanted to talk about what the company structure, since people seem curious to how this is being done. After seeing Bob Long's video about the company and how he runs it, concerning the anodizing and timelines, I wanted to say I totally agree with what he is doing, and we are going to be doing this along the 'Bob Long Model' (as I called it in our business plan.) We will not be doing the machining, but we will be doing the design, testing, assembly, packaging and shipping right from our shop. I will be working the line along with everybody else. When you call the shop and talk to a tech it will be a guy who might have built your gun. We are putting in place a few convenience things for ourselves (the online ticketing system) and it looks like we can get a few techs who are online and able to help diagnose the guns during any time zone. After being in the industry for 20+ years as a customer we know that service is very important. My favorite story, the one that I want to strive to match is the story of a guy who sent a gun into Tippmann. His wife was a paintball widow, and he loved his gun (having a pro-am back in the day, I totally understood) but she finally got pissed and took a hammer to it. It was unfixable, but he sent it in anyways. Tippmann sent him a new gun. And his wife a dozen roses. Now, that might be old school paintball fable, but it is part of what made me a huge Tippmann fan. They took great care of us back in the day when I played with one, and I want people to talk about J4 the same way.

We are a new company, but not new to paintball. This is a dream, and one we are striving to not screw up. I feel we have a great platform in this gun. It is far better then we expected. I haven't ran a gun for as long as this without more problems. I am really excited to get this out there on the market, with the understanding we have to make it 'right', even though it really cannot be right for everyone. Or can it?

Something somebody said to me years ago was to get the grip printed out in 3D for feel. It is the only point we have any tactile contact with our paintball gun. It was brilliant but obvious.

Everybody wants something slightly different though, and as I see Simon's post up I see we are running the same course. This is the 21'st Century. We are going to release our grip contact points and other parts up on Thingiverse and other places, put out in a few formats the CAD and even some files for laser etching. Maybe even a DIY video for wooden grips.

This will cover the grip covers, the insert, molds for rubber parts, the back grip panel, the foregrip shape and screw points, eye covers and even the trigger.

If you want a humpback on the back of your frame, we will put up a couple on the net for printing. If you have some sort of CAD format, we should have some files you can use to modify it for your own use. Custom foregrips that may fit your big hands? Done. Have a design you like? Do it. Somebody might do flames and re-post to Thingiverse or else where and you can get them printed from some company like Shapeways.

This makes it easy for small companies to make parts or even the individual. This makes this the first gun in what I hope will be an industry standard in the future to have it be able to be modified to fit the individual. No matter how different. You want a funky trigger type? 3 turn S-trigger with a snake tongue tip? Should be about $10 from an online printing company. You want a hump back grip with cut outs to let your hand breath? About the same. You want your team logo on the grips? Do it up in CAD (or just put a request out to the CAD guys on the custom CAD's forum) and have it printed. Maybe do a mold and make sets for the team. Maybe sell them.

This is the 21st Century. You can make our gun fit your hand, your style and your logo. And have the parts in a week or so, less if you have the printer yourself.

So for all the people asking about comfort and fit, will the grip match your hands well, it can. Exactly the way you want it, and you don' have to wait for a major manufacturer to do it.

Welcome to the future.

(Feel free to repost)


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#104 unfated33

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:15 AM

It's a slog. I think the highlights are:

1. Gun may not be ready for LL6, but is very close.
2. Josh the owner is looking at quitting his day job to make J4 his full time work.
3. The J4 markers will be highly customizable including posting their grip and cover specs online so that you can fabricate your own grips, etc. Josh mentions that with new technology and the specs they are posting you'll be able to have VERY cheap aftermarket parts made.
4. J4 wants to model themselves after Bob Long and Tippmann. So, a design-focused gun shop with fantastic customer service.
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#105 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

....


Someone goes through the motions to write a very nice professional response to critics asking about timelines and all you can do is spew out some 4chan garbage? At least a company is on the forums and LOVING having criticism from fellow players... I wish we could ban these types of posts to the rant section.

To J4:

The marker looks sweet. I'm loving all the work you guys are putting in in terms of swapping parts out to make the marker more comfortable for each player along with making this marker in different versions. For a new company that's awesome. Keep up the good contact with players and you guys are going to be huge. I've been looking for a second marker for a while now and this might just have to be it! :tup:

#106 Dogg3

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:08 AM

Someone goes through the motions to write a very nice professional response to critics asking about timelines and all you can do is spew out some 4chan garbage? At least a company is on the forums and LOVING having criticism from fellow players... I wish we could ban these types of posts to the rant

Maybe because I'd like the content of the post without having to sit and read the entire thing?It's obviously doable. The guy a couple posts up managed quite well.

I wish rants were banned to the rant section...

Posted Image

Edited by Dogg3, 16 May 2013 - 09:09 AM.

Oh and in case this isn't unprofessional enough yet.

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#107 Pump Player

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

So many wants l really like the customizing of it. Keep up The great Work

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#108 Jawz

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:56 PM


Someone goes through the motions to write a very nice professional response to critics asking about timelines and all you can do is spew out some 4chan garbage? At least a company is on the forums and LOVING having criticism from fellow players... I wish we could ban these types of posts to the rant

Maybe because I'd like the content of the post without having to sit and read the entire thing?It's obviously doable. The guy a couple posts up managed quite well.

I wish rants were banned to the rant section...

Posted Image


I don't think insulting 4chan is a good way to get your point across, they can destroy this forum in a couple of minutes if they wanted too. So not a good idea.
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#109 SynystrAssassin

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:19 PM

They REALLY need to slim down the ASA. Does not fit inwith the gun at all.

#110 BellaY

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:48 PM

saw this at ll6 and was explained everything in detail. I have to say im looking forward to seeing how this marker stacks up against the rest when released
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#111 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:39 PM

I was the first person to shoot the prototype at LL6, and I have to say I want one. Very smooth, and very quiet.

#112 SuicideLemming

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

I got to hand it to these guys. After Legends, I am seriously considering saving for this gun. They are awesome people to talk and deal with. They even let my friend borrow one of the guys they had sitting out to play with for Saturday.

#113 cockerpunk

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

very smooth, but the prototype was not quite ready for prime time.
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#114 Trend on me

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

looks pretty sweet

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#115 Demon

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:25 AM

shot it at legends, neat little marker for sure, but i know there will be improvements made, overall looks great and a really interesting marker, i'll be keeping my eye on them.

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#116 WildWayz

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:30 PM

Remember guys, the prototype at at LL6 was his early concept marker called "the mule". The way it works will be the same as final, but the mule was a mech marker and the final is electric.

I can't wait for it to be released :)
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#117 WildWayz

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:34 PM

I asked them about the screws in the foregrips, they said it was just "set screws to keep dirt out"


Not quite... it is for attaching a rubber foregrip - cos everyone whacks an Exalt grip on their front grip :P

But yeah, if you dont use a rubber foregrip cover then it will keep the holes clean ;)
My Setup is:
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#118 coleroeszler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:56 PM



Someone goes through the motions to write a very nice professional response to critics asking about timelines and all you can do is spew out some 4chan garbage? At least a company is on the forums and LOVING having criticism from fellow players... I wish we could ban these types of posts to the rant

Maybe because I'd like the content of the post without having to sit and read the entire thing?It's obviously doable. The guy a couple posts up managed quite well.

I wish rants were banned to the rant section...

Posted Image


I don't think insulting 4chan is a good way to get your point across, they can destroy this forum in a couple of minutes if they wanted too. So not a good idea.


^this...

#119 Orange Chicken

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:06 PM

A mech that's of modern design and that sexy? Here's my money, give me that gun.

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#120 iNicker

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:08 PM

A mech that's of modern design and that sexy? Here's my money, give me that gun.


i dont think the mech version is going to be available for a while.

#121 Orange Chicken

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:19 PM

Well that sucks. I guess that's on the waiting list for mech markers, along with the Resurrection and the G-1m.

Well that sucks. I guess that's on the waiting list for mech markers, along with the Resurrection and the G-1m.

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#122 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:22 PM


A mech that's of modern design and that sexy? Here's my money, give me that gun.


i dont think the mech version is going to be available for a while.

Im sure it would be fairly simple to convert the electro version with commonly available parts.

#123 iNicker

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:24 PM



A mech that's of modern design and that sexy? Here's my money, give me that gun.


i dont think the mech version is going to be available for a while.

Im sure it would be fairly simple to convert the electro version with commonly available parts.


from what i know, j4 is going to release the electro version first, then later on down the road, release the mech version. no real need to buy the electro just to convert it into a mech.

#124 andrewthewookie

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:26 PM

Yes, we know they're possibly releasing a mech later on. His post was for people who don't want to wait for a mech Torque.

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#125 iNicker

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

some people may want to go that route, but others like me would think it would be dumb to buy the electro, then convert it, when you could wait and get a possibly cheaper already mech. it just seems like a waste in my eyes...

#126 andrewthewookie

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:35 PM

So don't get an electro version to mech then.

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#127 iNicker

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:37 PM

lol i dont plan on it..

does anybody know the price point on the torque?

#128 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

Im sure you could switch back and forth between the two as long as you dont do anything drastic like welding the frame lol.

#129 WildWayz

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:04 AM

lol i dont plan on it..

does anybody know the price point on the torque?



The price has only been released to dealers, and they are not allowed to disclose it yet. It is more expensive than an eNMy but cheaper than a Luxe / Vapor.

Honestly.
My Setup is:
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Backup: Planet Eclipse Etek4 + .50cal Setup, Ninja Dura 68/4500+Ninja Pro Reg, Virtue Spire 260+SR+CrownSF
UKPSF: 5429

#130 Orange Chicken

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:38 AM

Hoping it'll fall along with the Axe and Invasion, and raise to their status.
For mech? I'll be expecting 300-350 tops. Unless the conversion comes with the electro version

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#131 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:08 AM

If I remember what Josh told me correctly, the mech version will not be an entirely different gun, but it will be a drop-in kit (similar to the mech ion kit) so you wouldn't need to buy two guns.

#132 Jawz

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:03 AM

i think it'll be around the 600-700 zone.
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#133 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:53 PM

Base model will be $500-$700 with LED board, simple milling, etc. Luxury model will be $900+ and have OLED and likely other upgrades. All parts are compatible with all models so you can upgrade to the nicer version.

#134 J4 Paintball

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

Base model will be $500-$700 with LED board, simple milling, etc. Luxury model will be $900+ and have OLED and likely other upgrades. All parts are compatible with all models so you can upgrade to the nicer version.


Wow - those are prices companies we are directly competing with can't hit when the gun is shipped to them in a box ready to go from Asia. Mid range would be nice, but we are just a small start up company guys. :P The parts are made in the US and the UK, with the gun assembled, tested and shipped with love from Texas.

If I remember what Josh told me correctly, the mech version will not be an entirely different gun, but it will be a drop-in kit (similar to the mech ion kit) so you wouldn't need to buy two guns.


Yes, the current gun will be electro, with the Hall Effect self-timing system, RGBLED and related and with OLED drop in kits from the TS (Top Shelf.) We are going to supply a simple drop in mech kit for that gun. You will be able to go back and forth in about 10 minutes. Or less.

In the future, as in, if we make a profit and succeed, we will be able to afford to do a full dedicated mech gun. It will be cheaper, have a far simpler body, and be just mech.

#135 Bunneh

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:41 PM

Simple, smooth and shiny... I likey

#136 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

Judt what Ive heard, could be WAAAY off as far as I know... and it sounds like I am haha.

#137 J4 Paintball

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

Well, whomever is talking.... most people have no clue what it takes to make a paintball gun.

To make a $500 gun takes so much more upfront then to make, say, a $1500 gun it is crazy. Even then, there are lots of plastic parts. Injection molding can be tens of thousands alone up front for some of the $500 guns. Even then, this is a gun made in the US/UK. Like Bob Long said, it is $500,000 up front for 1000 guns. That is $500 each, at 1000 guns, up front, his cost, not even counting assembly time. Not talking about what a dealer gets as markup. Smaller runs are far more expensive. We have done quite a bit, but not a $500 gun. Not in the US/UK and not assembled here. Even then, look at how many comparable guns are coming from Asia right now, in a box, for $1500. None have this new design, and none have the HE setup and self timing.

We offer a lot for the price point we will hit, our profit margin is most likely far less then who we are up against. A $500 gun takes some serious up front money and some compromises to hit. We decided not to do that on our first gun. Who would compromise on their first gun ever?

#138 iNicker

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

so basically you are saying the torque will be 1000+ ?

#139 J4 Paintball

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:17 PM

so basically you are saying the torque will be 1000+ ?


Maybe.

Maybe not.

:)

#140 iNicker

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:29 PM

cant wait to find out
when will more info be released?Posted Image

Edited by iNicker, 23 May 2013 - 10:29 PM.


#141 WildWayz

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:46 AM

heehee at all these probing questions :P

I've been saving up bottle caps in prep for the release...

Edited by WildWayz, 24 May 2013 - 01:47 AM.

My Setup is:
Main: {unknown}, Inspire 68/4500+Ninja Pro Reg, Virtue Spire.
Backup: Planet Eclipse Etek4 + .50cal Setup, Ninja Dura 68/4500+Ninja Pro Reg, Virtue Spire 260+SR+CrownSF
UKPSF: 5429

#142 fatalreaction

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:43 AM

woot woot fallout!!!!

So looking forward to this!!!

#143 XGC_Cheevo

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

I was asked at the booth at living legends what I paid for for my new 2012 g6r. I said one thousand and was told it would quite a bit less than that. I'm not going to guess what that means in terms of price but that's good enough for me. I'm excited for it.

#144 gorgeousllama

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

My guess is $699.99

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#145 J4 Paintball

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:08 PM

Ouch - $700 is going retail on several pump guns nowadays... with macrolines. Our gun must look like crap. :D

#146 Jawz

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:10 PM

Ouch - $700 is going retail on several pump guns nowadays... with macrolines. Our gun must look like crap. :D


$2341.50?
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#147 J4 Paintball

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:12 PM

Jawz is our new favorite customer. You can have the first one Sir!

#148 Jawz

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

Jawz is our new favorite customer. You can have the first one Sir!


Fuck yeah B-) that's my new sig
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#149 kingJurzy

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:23 PM

Jawz is our new favorite customer. You can have the first one Sir!


And I email you to ask about getting the "blems" and you shoot me down? I am disappoint.

FEEDBACK: 23/0/0


#150 Jawz

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:36 PM


Jawz is our new favorite customer. You can have the first one Sir!


And I email you to ask about getting the "blems" and you shoot me down? I am disappoint.


Face it Jeremy, you will never be as cool.
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