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whats next for Dye?


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#51 Jawz

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:37 PM



I never said the OLED or line make the marker, but the dm13 is at the bottom of the top end markers in both performance and conveneince. How they stay in business (in my opinion) is the rotor. I see more rotors than any other hopper. The i4s are alright, they are cheaply made but that is w/e. I will also say that every field I have ever been to uses the rail as their "upgraded" marker. The issue that gets me is how overpriced their products are.


woah buddy the dm13 is a dm. Solid platform and a well performing one. Theres a reason it still sells. The i4'ss are definetly not cheaply made, the materials are ergonomically friendly to most people not to mention the field of view is fantastic. You are terribly misinformed.

The only failures Dye has made are:
1. SLG
2. rotor speedfeed
3. the original NT

(recently)


This is not misimformation. The DM13 just doesnt compete with the other markers in it's price range (spool or pop). And as for the i4, I have had them for 3 months and the glkue they use is trash. The pads on the side have started to come of and the velcro has come off. Considering how much I baby my gear this is 10000% unacceptable. Yes they are VERY comfortable and have a great FOV, but I can't justify buying one if it will only last a few months.

I've had mine for 3 years, don't bull shit (2 pairs) explain to me how it doesn't match up to any current top end markers?
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#52 PaintJunkie

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:44 PM




I never said the OLED or line make the marker, but the dm13 is at the bottom of the top end markers in both performance and conveneince. How they stay in business (in my opinion) is the rotor. I see more rotors than any other hopper. The i4s are alright, they are cheaply made but that is w/e. I will also say that every field I have ever been to uses the rail as their "upgraded" marker. The issue that gets me is how overpriced their products are.


woah buddy the dm13 is a dm. Solid platform and a well performing one. Theres a reason it still sells. The i4'ss are definetly not cheaply made, the materials are ergonomically friendly to most people not to mention the field of view is fantastic. You are terribly misinformed.

The only failures Dye has made are:
1. SLG
2. rotor speedfeed
3. the original NT

(recently)


This is not misimformation. The DM13 just doesnt compete with the other markers in it's price range (spool or pop). And as for the i4, I have had them for 3 months and the glkue they use is trash. The pads on the side have started to come of and the velcro has come off. Considering how much I baby my gear this is 10000% unacceptable. Yes they are VERY comfortable and have a great FOV, but I can't justify buying one if it will only last a few months.

I've had mine for 3 years, don't bull shit (2 pairs) explain to me how it doesn't match up to any current top end markers?


Look at my profile pic, notice what I am wearing. Why would I just make up stuff about the gear I use? My mask comes off my face when I am done playing, goes in the cloth bag, goes back to my appt where I remove and clean the lense then use qtips to clean the mask of paint and then it goes back in the bag. In just a few months the cloth padding is serperating and the velcro that holds the ear pads to the bottom have come off.

As far as the DM13 it has to compete with the Geo Luxe and Clone GT amongst others. And nowhere have I seen a majority prefer the DM13. It simply doesnt have the features or the capabilities of the competition.

So chill out man, this isn't a personal attack on you. If you want to be mad at somebody be mad at Dye for having either poor quality products or poor quality control.
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#53 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:48 PM




I never said the OLED or line make the marker, but the dm13 is at the bottom of the top end markers in both performance and conveneince. How they stay in business (in my opinion) is the rotor. I see more rotors than any other hopper. The i4s are alright, they are cheaply made but that is w/e. I will also say that every field I have ever been to uses the rail as their "upgraded" marker. The issue that gets me is how overpriced their products are.


woah buddy the dm13 is a dm. Solid platform and a well performing one. Theres a reason it still sells. The i4'ss are definetly not cheaply made, the materials are ergonomically friendly to most people not to mention the field of view is fantastic. You are terribly misinformed.

The only failures Dye has made are:
1. SLG
2. rotor speedfeed
3. the original NT

(recently)


This is not misimformation. The DM13 just doesnt compete with the other markers in it's price range (spool or pop). And as for the i4, I have had them for 3 months and the glkue they use is trash. The pads on the side have started to come of and the velcro has come off. Considering how much I baby my gear this is 10000% unacceptable. Yes they are VERY comfortable and have a great FOV, but I can't justify buying one if it will only last a few months.

I've had mine for 3 years, don't bull shit (2 pairs) explain to me how it doesn't match up to any current top end markers?

The newest uses the same bolt, reg, grips, board, ad nauseam as the DM12. And the only change since the 11 is the toolless back cap. They are heavier and larger than other spools that shoot smoother and are more efficient. And theyre still the same price.

Still great performers but I see no reason to buy new when you can get the same performance for a third of the price. In fact older DMs may be slightly less efficient but are smoother shooting and the new grips are definitely not for everyone.

#54 Trend on me

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:07 PM

I wouldn't be shocked if they did something like make a 600-500 dollar range gun.

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#55 andrewthewookie

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:08 PM

I wouldn't be shocked if they did something like make a 600-500 dollar range gun.

They pretty much already do; it's called the Reflex.

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#56 Totes Magotes

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:54 PM

All I know with dye cranking out new guns they are doing wonders for the used gun community. Dm12s are worth about half what they are new and older DMs are even cheaper. While they haven't done much innovation to the DM in the past several years its nice to know that I can purchase a DM8,9,10,11 and they will all still compete with the DM13 at a fraction of the cost.
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#57 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:16 PM

All I know with dye cranking out new guns they are doing wonders for the used gun community. Dm12s are worth about half what they are new and older DMs are even cheaper. While they haven't done much innovation to the DM in the past several years its nice to know that I can purchase a DM8,9,10,11 and they will all still compete with the DM13 at a fraction of the cost.

It's a buyer's market for sure.

#58 silvere108

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:25 PM


Eventualy dye will gave to adapt or die so to speak there are spool valve guns that blow it out of the water. The 2013 demon comes to mind. It needs some work on the reliability aspect which I believe the new version addressed. Once all the fanboys unbiasedly shoot these other guns dye will take a hit. Assuming we call performance on par between the d m and demon. The small features matter. The oled And macroless will make the difference

I do agree that small features matter. OLED and Macroless would be great. But I don't think the DM performs so poorly that Dye would go under because of it. People who shoot them aren't fanboys just because they shoot them. The Matrix is a great platform, it just leans more towards performance than perks.

I think it'd be neat if they could move the LPR behind the bolt, like the HPR in the DAM. Giving the marker a lower profile would be pretty big step in the right direction.

Very good point, I've been hoping they'd put the lpr back in the front like the pm series but inside the body, or vertical like a pm8. A little more in the front, then almost nt like in the back. But first that bolt could use lightened up. Shorter tail, maybe a better bumper system or even a spring assist.

Edited by silvere108, 30 April 2013 - 03:28 PM.

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#59 Praetorian

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:39 PM

as far as failures.. What about the DMC?

#60 Jawz

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:43 PM

as far as failures.. What about the DMC?


I was thinking more recently but if you wanna go back that far! Yes lol
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#61 TheRealistBaller

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

Fuckin oled board already...
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#62 Praetorian

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:26 PM

Fuckin oled board already...


that wont ever happen.

#63 CEP

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

All I know is when the dm14 is released if it doesn't have any big changes I'm buying a dm12 off ansgear for 750

#64 Wolfe

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Either macroless, a new revamped NT, or both.

At least that's what I'd like to see.


Free NT for overweight, long haired, almost middle aged, white guys is what I'd like to see. LOL!

#65 marceldacs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

they should make the dm lighter

#66 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:58 PM

Make a stacked tube poppet and/or an inline poppet using Matrix series innovations, and make a proto version with less refinement. make it more efficient than an LV1/axe, and equally quiet or better, they could honestly dominate poppets. dye has potential to be the best brand in paintball, but they dont tap into the other areas. i believe that in this day and age there should be an oled screen on all markers priced over 700.

I like loud, kicky poppets. I am the last of my people.


#67 Jawz

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:36 PM

They are the best.... you're delusional.
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#68 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:38 PM

Except they refuse to cater to:
People with fat heads
People who use reballs
People who like a poppet marker
People who like to pay a fair price on their products. Ive never seen a fairly priced dye product

I like loud, kicky poppets. I am the last of my people.


#69 SOUP

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:53 PM

It's called proto... Proto exists for a reason. Proto makes the mid/ low range Dye products.

I too would love to have a poppet with a UL frame. Although, I could build a viking or Evil-M with a UL frame and it would probably be 10x the poppet dye would produce, but that's besides the point.

A modern, or newer, dye poppet would be a worthwhile thing for them to do imo, because the DM line doesn't seem to be doing as hot as it once was. Still fantastic markers, but people aren't buying them like they used to. Seems like the only time I see a brand new dm is when it's in the hands of a sponsored player or in the hands of a kid with wealthy parents.

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#70 Jawz

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:17 PM

Dye uses proven technology and will continue to do so till they see a huge decline in both popularity, and profit. The couple of times they have tried to innovate they have produced things like the NT, the NT wasn't bad it was New, people highlight it as a failure because dye is such a well known company. I would be large sums of money that if dye came out with an NT13 it would have been a very good gat. But they decided to stick with the dm because it sells. It's a business and they are not going to make a poppet because of things like the NT. Not to mention look at the market! 90% of poppets shoot the same, with the exception of a select few namely the lv1, impulse, and vic. How is dye going to come up with something like those when all these technologies have taken years to come up with and perfect?
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#71 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:23 AM

Find an innovative way to make it quiet as a matrix, maybe try to integrate fuse bolt tech?

I like loud, kicky poppets. I am the last of my people.


#72 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:25 AM

It's called proto... Proto exists for a reason. Proto makes the mid/ low range Dye products.

I too would love to have a poppet with a UL frame. Although, I could build a viking or Evil-M with a UL frame and it would probably be 10x the poppet dye would produce, but that's besides the point.

A modern, or newer, dye poppet would be a worthwhile thing for them to do imo, because the DM line doesn't seem to be doing as hot as it once was. Still fantastic markers, but people aren't buying them like they used to. Seems like the only time I see a brand new dm is when it's in the hands of a sponsored player or in the hands of a kid with wealthy parents.

Even proto is overpriced though. the proto rail is not worth 250 when compared to the eXTCy. Everything dye makes is overpriced for what ever reason. Maybe its those color coded o rings :dodgy:

I like loud, kicky poppets. I am the last of my people.


#73 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:34 AM

How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

#74 epic woodsballer

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:47 AM

they should make the dm lighter

YES. This is why I will never own a dm.

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#75 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:50 AM

Find an innovative way to make it quiet as a matrix, maybe try to integrate fuse bolt tech?

If they integrated the Fuse bolt engine tech, they would have another spool valve marker...

fuck yolo
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#76 Poopfairy35

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

I think we can expect the dm14 to be macro less. They managed it with the dam & integrated the hyper 3 in the single tube.
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#77 andrewthewookie

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:03 AM


Find an innovative way to make it quiet as a matrix, maybe try to integrate fuse bolt tech?

If they integrated the Fuse bolt engine tech, they would have another spool valve marker...

The NT is already a spool valve. If they integrated Fuse bolt tech, it would be another DM.

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#78 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

I like loud, kicky poppets. I am the last of my people.


#79 andrewthewookie

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:28 PM


How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

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#80 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:30 PM



How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

Except you have to open the grip up to change a mode, it is when the competition has it, and last i checked there was a lever lock on the one at my shop.

I like loud, kicky poppets. I am the last of my people.


#81 LUXOR54

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:31 PM




How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

Except you have to open the grip up to change a mode, it is when the competition has it, and last i checked there was a lever lock on the one at my shop.

then that's just the one at your shop. and when are you actually going to be changing your mode more than once when you're at the field?

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#82 madsnipes

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

What's next for dye?
the same thing as what they do every single other year

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#83 Nobben #44

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:45 PM

I just laugh at the random Dye hate in here.


Sooooo much ignornace.

#84 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:46 PM




How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

Except you have to open the grip up to change a mode, it is when the competition has it, and last i checked there was a lever lock on the one at my shop.


Are you kidding me? You have to open the grip to change a mode? Since when did that make or break a purchase? that's like saying "Well, I have the choice between a Honda Civic or the Toyota Corolla. The Toyota performs similar to the Honda and even though the Toyota is more available, I'm gonna buy the Honda because it has cooler rims." You see how stupid that sounds?

The Rail and the Extcy were created for the beginner player. It's not going to be marketed towards Ryan Greenspan.

Even then if you just play PSP you leave it on PSP. If you play NPPL you leave it NPPL. My statement still stands. They are mechanically the same thing.

Edited by Panda's Revenge, 24 June 2013 - 02:48 PM.


#85 LUXOR54

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:49 PM





How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

Except you have to open the grip up to change a mode, it is when the competition has it, and last i checked there was a lever lock on the one at my shop.


Are you kidding me? You have to open the grip to change a mode?
The Rail and the Extcy were created for the beginner player. It's not going to be marketed towards Ryan Greenspan.

Even then if you just play PSP you leave it on PSP. If you play NPPL you leave it NPPL. My statement still stands. They are mechanically the same thing.

this. they're the damn damn thing from two different companies. like how GMC and Chevrolet can make the same vhicle then put a different badge on it and give it a different name.

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#86 andrewthewookie

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:50 PM

They're both blow-forward Matrix based spools, so while similar, they are not identical.

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#87 LUXOR54

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

of course there are differences like the eyes, trigger, ASA and what not. but for all intents and purposes, i consider them the same.

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#88 andrewthewookie

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

The externals are irrelevant, I'm talking about the bolt engines. They are both designed with the same principles in mind, and function quite the same. However, they are not actually the same gun, like an Ego and Cyborg are both stacked tube poppets, but are not identical.

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#89 LUXOR54

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:56 PM

fair enough. but that leads to the question, if you know they're not identical. which one would you go for?

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#90 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:57 PM

of course there are differences like the eyes, trigger, ASA and what not. but for all intents and purposes, i consider them the same.


Yep.
Back on topic Dye really has everything they need currently. Does the market call for innovation? Maybe, but Dye has been selling pretty much the same model for years (with technological advances of course) and have been selling pretty well. Screens are overrated really. Since when are you going to change the dwell and debounce and firing settings so much that you need a screen for it? Dwell you count 12 blinks, okay debounce count 2 blinks, firing mode PSP ramping 3 blinks okay done with setup (I don't know the real blink settings but bear with me). The point is that it takes at most 5 minutes to set up your marker for a regular day of play, and you most likely will not touch those settings again.

Honestly, it's the same platform for years and is a tried and true system. The only thing that could really benefit the user is if they made it cheaper.

#91 Wolfe

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:59 PM




How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

Except you have to open the grip up to change a mode, it is when the competition has it, and last i checked there was a lever lock on the one at my shop.


It's time for you to grow up and stop basing all your posts solely on opinion. As for the Rail's trigger, I can walk the fuck out it. You really must learn to be a bit more versatile in your abilities. And a shit board? So what, I can't go out onto the field and change from semi to 20pbs ramp with a couple of button pushes. This is a good thing, you get assholes, such as yourself on the field with a bunch of newbies and think you're some kind of god. I'll mention it again, Grow the Fuck Up!

Edited by Wolfe, 24 June 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#92 LUXOR54

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:01 PM


of course there are differences like the eyes, trigger, ASA and what not. but for all intents and purposes, i consider them the same.


Yep.
Back on topic Dye really has everything they need currently. Does the market call for innovation? Maybe, but Dye has been selling pretty much the same model for years (with technological advances of course) and have been selling pretty well. Screens are overrated really. Since when are you going to change the dwell and debounce and firing settings so much that you need a screen for it? Dwell you count 12 blinks, okay debounce count 2 blinks, firing mode PSP ramping 3 blinks okay done with setup (I don't know the real blink settings but bear with me). The point is that it takes at most 5 minutes to set up your marker for a regular day of play, and you most likely will not touch those settings again.

Honestly, it's the same platform for years and is a tried and true system. The only thing that could really benefit the user is if they made it cheaper.

that's the thing. if dye has been making the DM line for years and charging a pretty penny for it, it comes with a sense of prestige. can't they just mass order a metric fuck-ton of bodies and mass produce then charge a lower price? it would be cool to see Dye take the same path with the DM that Alien did with the Independence. if you could get a slighty less pretty DM for 700$ would you buy it? it would be like the Proto Matrix line all over again.

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#93 Wolfe

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

fair enough. but that leads to the question, if you know they're not identical. which one would you go for?


Personally, I'd go with the Rail and did. The extcy may be a fine marker, but I really like Dye and Proto.

#94 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

Oh right, the PM fiasco.
Well you are correct, it does come with some sense of prestige.

"I worked for this money, and now I have one of the best that money can buy"
or the ever so popular
"My mom bought me this for my birthday! I'm so agg"

#95 LUXOR54

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:07 PM

Oh right, the PM fiasco.
Well you are correct, it does come with some sense of prestige.

"I worked for this money, and now I have one of the best that money can buy"
or the ever so popular
"My mom bought me this for my birthday! I'm so agg"

they've been doing the same damn thing forever. if they know it works and people will keep buying why not go all out and mass produce? i'm sure after however many years of doing the same thing it would be easy to do it with less of a cost, they probably have it down to a science at this point.

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:09 PM


fair enough. but that leads to the question, if you know they're not identical. which one would you go for?


Personally, I'd go with the Rail and did. The extcy may be a fine marker, but I really like Dye and Proto.


Both are backed by fairly good companies.
I'd say it would come down to availability.

#97 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:45 PM

As far as what's next for dye, they have a solid base of customers by the balls. The fact that they release the same gun every year only gets them more fans. I'm living proof. I love my DM11. I hear their pads are good too. Not to say I'm going to buy the next DM. for me it needs more features. I haven't spent more than $500 on a gun yet, and I don't plan to.
What I would like to see at WC for dye? I, unlike many, don't think they need to re release the NT, or the PM. They need to bring their tech up to spec with whats being currently offered. I'm not talking about OLEDs, but actual innovation. I would love to see and integrated LPR similar to the HPR in the DAM. That would make the gun a bit smaller, which it needs. Pressure sensor for the LPR would be great, although having a pressure sensor for the LPR without the OLED is kinda pointless. Macroless? Eh, I can deal either way. The thing just needs to be slimmed down and refined after 5 years. It's time for a major update.
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#98 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:52 PM

Dye's to do list:
-Make the DM lighter
-Make the DM shorter
-Put a fucking OLED board in our $1000+ marker
-Put a better trigger in our $1000+ marker
-Space out the reg and make it less of a pain in the ass to disassemble
-Make our $1000+ marker not look like a children's toy (IMO the DM12/13 look terrible compared to the ones before that)

#99 TippmannPlayer97

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:58 PM





How is the rail less in quality than the extcy? They are practically and mechanically the same thing.

Are you kidding? Terribad trigger, no on/off, no leverlock, and shit board? fix that and it may be worth 250

Trigger is preference, on/off is not a deal breaker, Extcy doesn't have a lever lock either, and exactly how is it a shit board? It has everything you need.

Except you have to open the grip up to change a mode, it is when the competition has it, and last i checked there was a lever lock on the one at my shop.


It's time for you to grow up and stop basing all your posts solely on opinion. As for the Rail's trigger, I can walk the fuck out it. You really must learn to be a bit more versatile in your abilities. And a shit board? So what, I can't go out onto the field and change from semi to 20pbs ramp with a couple of button pushes. This is a good thing, you get assholes, such as yourself on the field with a bunch of newbies and think you're some kind of god. I'll mention it again, Grow the Fuck Up!

Irony... Aside from that, i tend to change modes sometimes depending on skill. for instance if i'm doing a 5v5 speedball game against some dudes who are a lot better than me, i rock NXL full auto. if theres mostly renters i use semi auto. if i'm 1v1'ing a friend who i dont want to piss off, i do 10 bps semi

Edited by TippmannPlayer97, 24 June 2013 - 04:00 PM.

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

Why the fuck would you rock NXL full auto in a 5v5? The point of playing with players better than you are is to gain skill. You are losing skill taht way.




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