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Hawaiian style?


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#1 Corysllw

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:09 AM

I know it has something to do with pump, but if someone could give more information on it, I'd appreciate it.

#2 The Desacrator

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:19 AM

http://www.google.co...0&tx=187&ty=246

Edited by The Desacrator, 06 March 2013 - 02:23 AM.


#3 Antonious

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:23 AM

It's basically a bottom-line with the ASA or bucket changer facing forward. This gives the gun a shorter overall length to help you play tighter.
I've never cared for it personally.

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#4 Corysllw

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:58 AM

When I get a pump I'm definitely going to try it.
Thanks for the help!

#5 drg

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

Posted Image
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#6 Antonious

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:38 PM

OCD moment: 3 of those are actually VSC, one of which is upside-down

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#7 drg

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:48 PM

Don't you just want to reach in there and flip it over? :lol:
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#8 Antonious

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:45 PM

So badly :(

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#9 o-baller

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:29 PM

Never understood why people liked Hawaiian style. Not that I have anything against it, I just don't know why people like it
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#10 get.lit.up!

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:09 PM

I've seen people do this to minis and axes too
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#11 Orange Chicken

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:21 AM

Oh...I thought it was something else. I mean this group Im a part of is full of old school ballers, and I saw some of them do this on their pumps and whatnot, but I thought they said it because we always wore hawaiian shirts and cargo shorts/pants when we play.

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#12 drg

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:07 AM

Never understood why people liked Hawaiian style. Not that I have anything against it, I just don't know why people like it

Makes the gun shorter as compared to rear-facing bottomline. Puts the changer closer to your hands for more convenient changes. Looks cool.
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#13 Pump Player

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

I like that it makes it easier to rock and cock :)

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#14 Demon

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

I've seen people do this to minis and axes too


do WAT?

i'm thinking i may call shens here because i don't think any tank would clear the foregrip... MAYBE a 13/3k maybe.

Edited by Demon, 08 March 2013 - 10:53 AM.

this is borderline pornography.......(bookmarks thread)

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#15 get.lit.up!

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

Yep with 13 cubics, I think some dremel work is required, maybe.
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Edited by get.lit.up!, 08 March 2013 - 06:57 PM.

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#16 Pyrate Jim

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:53 PM

I know it has something to do with pump, but if someone could give more information on it, I'd appreciate it.

I can give a bit of the history...
The term "Island Style" started back in 1984 at a field on Deer Island in New Hampshire. This was 2 years before Tippmann introduced Schraeder valves and ASA threads, back then it was 12 grams and thermo-valve tanks with bulky hoses.
The story goes that they often played hiding in the water and found that tipping the marker down to change 12g's with a rear changer got the barrel wet - and tipping the marker back to swap 12g's at the front under the barrel would get the paint wet - but you could change 12g's under water.
It was years later that the term "Island Style" became synonymous with "Hawaiian Style", Earron Carter used the configuration on many of his markers in the 90's and his home was in Hawaii, so it was a natural mistake to mix them up (the Hawaiian Islands are much better known than Deer Island).
U.S. Patent Office shows a similar design dating back to the 1930's. (I found it up on their website, you can too)
Wolfs Lair in PA also played in water, and the same design was used there in the 90's by the Waffen Elite. The field is now EMR and the ponds are still there but they don't play in them.
When Arrow Precision brought back the Sterling it was one of their factory-produced stock-class models, still is actually and they also call it Hawaiian Style on their website.
Although technically, the term originally had nothing to do with the Hawaiian islands at all.

Call it what you will.
Personally I prefer it over a back changer, and it does tend to balance very well.
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#17 GeezusPB

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

Yep with 13 cubics, I think some dremel work is required, maybe.
Posted Image

^^very tempting to do this to my mini next weekend...

#18 Corysllw

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

I have learned something once again! Thank you guys for the help! And thanks to Pyrate Jim for the history on it!

#19 get.lit.up!

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:16 AM


Yep with 13 cubics, I think some dremel work is required, maybe.
%20http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/attachments/empire/26016d1313011800-invert-picture-thread-dscf0215.jpg

^^very tempting to do this to my mini next weekend...


http://www.mcarterbr...e-thread-4.html
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#20 drg

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:31 AM


I know it has something to do with pump, but if someone could give more information on it, I'd appreciate it.

I can give a bit of the history...
The term "Island Style" started back in 1984 at a field on Deer Island in New Hampshire. This was 2 years before Tippmann introduced Schraeder valves and ASA threads, back then it was 12 grams and thermo-valve tanks with bulky hoses.
The story goes that they often played hiding in the water and found that tipping the marker down to change 12g's with a rear changer got the barrel wet - and tipping the marker back to swap 12g's at the front under the barrel would get the paint wet - but you could change 12g's under water.
It was years later that the term "Island Style" became synonymous with "Hawaiian Style", Earron Carter used the configuration on many of his markers in the 90's and his home was in Hawaii, so it was a natural mistake to mix them up (the Hawaiian Islands are much better known than Deer Island).
U.S. Patent Office shows a similar design dating back to the 1930's. (I found it up on their website, you can too)
Wolfs Lair in PA also played in water, and the same design was used there in the 90's by the Waffen Elite. The field is now EMR and the ponds are still there but they don't play in them.
When Arrow Precision brought back the Sterling it was one of their factory-produced stock-class models, still is actually and they also call it Hawaiian Style on their website.
Although technically, the term originally had nothing to do with the Hawaiian islands at all.

Call it what you will.
Personally I prefer it over a back changer, and it does tend to balance very well.


This remains, to me, revisionist history. When it was recognized as a "style" it was Hawaiian style. Others may have done a similar configuration on various obscure fields in corners of the US, but trying to say that was "island style" and "Hawaiian style" is just confusion is highly, highly suspect. Hawaiian style originated in the era of modular ASAs.

I will say that there appears to be no definitive proof either way, as the origins predate available resources. However the earliest resources we can find establish Hawaiian style as the proper name, and Hawaiian style is far and away the more used name for this style except by the same few individuals suspiciously mentioning some obscure field in the corner of the US. From my personal experience its use in Hawaii never had anything to do with the obscure field in the corner of the US, as it was obscure and east coast stuff was hardly even on the radar. Paintball influences in the early days flowed back and forth between California and Hawaii for the most part.

Here is what my research found five years ago: http://www.pbnation....68#post48866068
The only new info to come up was this assertion that it was a PHOG thing: http://www.mcarterbr...tml#post2467034
Which is consistent with the information I found. IMO whatever "island style" was, it wasn't the same as Hawaiian style, which is specifically reversed-bottomline ASA.

As I said five years ago, you are welcome to provide evidence to the contrary.

Edited by drg, 10 March 2013 - 04:14 AM.

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#21 Pyrate Jim

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:53 PM

Far be it from Me that I argue semantics with the esteemed Dr Gonzo...

I will say that there appears to be no definitive proof either way, as the origins predate available resources.

Yeah, so do I.

Edited by Pyrate Jim, 11 March 2013 - 05:04 PM.

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#22 drg

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

This is not a question of semantics, it's of etymology, which is evidence-based. You have never presented any evidence to support your claim. It would be great if you did, but I don't think it exists. It simply makes no sense that this setup would have existed when you claim it did, the parts didn't exist yet. Then there is also no evidence that one term arose from the other, in fact the evidence we have says it didn't.

Edited by drg, 14 March 2013 - 03:11 PM.

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#23 Pyrate Jim

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

What you "think exists" is beyond me.
The truth is that the configuration currently know as Hawaiian Style used to be popularised as Island Style long before there was any ASA to be reversed.
That particular "Style" acually pre-dates Paintball as a game.

You didn't invent it, neither did I. It existed 5 decades before paintball as a game was even conceived.
(according to the US patent Office)

Never mind the fact that I've been playing paintball for 25 years, the past 12 years I've been running the Paintball Marshals' Museum of Paintball History, and have been researching the roots of paintball for several decades..
.
It's still a fact that this obscure corner of the U.S. is where paintball started, We were playing paintball out here for years before it hit the West Coast or Hawaii. Several fields locally have celebrated their 30th anniversary, which cannot be said anywhere else in this Country.
Up here "off the radar" we held the very first paintball game, the very first paintball tournament ever, the first "scenario" game format, and the first World Cup international competition back in 1984.
These are also a matter of historical fact. Not a matter of "revisionist" history.
I've had many great times chatting with people like Caleb Strong, Jim Lively, Bob Gurnsey, Jerry Braun, Jim Ioulo, Paul Fogel, Debra Dion, Glenn Palmer, Tom Kaye, Renee Bouchard...
So many stories by people who were instrumental in making paintball what it is today.
So many stories that give me the basis of my information.

Very few of these stories have documented verification.
Yet they repeatedly tell the same story.

I collect these stories from the people who were actually there, and I occasionally repeat them online.
The fact that it is a verbal history and not some wikipedia excerpt with no documentation does not negate the fact that this is what people who know the the truth have told me over the years.

I don't care about nomenclature, call it Hawaiian if you insist.
The truth is still the truth.


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#24 drg

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:06 PM

I'm sorry but that sounds like a lot of hot air. Oral history is a great thing but having also been in the sport for 25 years what I have learned is a lot of nonsense was "known" to be the truth back in the day, and till today old timers believe things are true that are proven false. And you can't tell them otherwise.

That patent thing you keep bringing up is total bunk. You are claiming this is prior art for Hawaiian style?

Posted Image

That looks like prior art for "Sheridan style" if anything.

Is this what you're talking about when you say Island style?
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#25 The Inflicted

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

As far as the possible advantages of Hawaiian style...
With a stock class Phantom the feedtube faces towards the player, so the gun is rocked barrel-downwards to load the next ball.
If the gun is configured with the tank facing forward off the grip, this means that most of the time the tank will either be held level, or oriented valve-up.
Won't this serve to help prevent liquid from entering the gun?

#26 1shot

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:04 PM

I run one of my VSC Phantoms Hawaiian during the winter with a 13cc tank. This way I don't have to change my stock and I don't have a long tank pointing straight down into the snow. Surprising to me was that the forward weight balanced the Phantom nicely.




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