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Pragmatic Gearing For The New Player, Or Don't Believe The Hype


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#1 dosh

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:27 AM

What do you need to play paintball?

A gun
A mask
A tank
A hopper
And paintballs

With just those five things you can have a good day at the field. Everything else is a luxury. The goal in buying expensive gear isn't to improve your play, it's to remove impediments from getting in the way of your play. Take a mask for instance. Most everyone,including myself, will tell you to upgrade your mask first. Foggy lenses, stifling airflow, uncomfortable irritating fit, are serious hampers to game play. So you buy nice mask to get rid of those problems. It's money well spent.

That doesn't mean you can't get by with a cheap mask that came in your gun package to start off with. By all means buy a better mask if you can afford it right off the bat. But don't let that stop you from getting out to the field as often as possible, just put it at the top of your priority list for upgrades.

I see alot responses on here when folks come asking for setup advice start off with "don't buy the gun til you get the gear" then go into a list that tallies up a few hundred dollars sans marker. This is bad advice in my opinion. You don't need the gear til you have the gun because it does you no good. Unless of course you intend to show up at the field in jersey, pants, pads, harness, cleats, mask, with a HPA tank and force feed loader that you're going to stick on a rental gun. That's just ridiculous.

A gun, a mask, a tank, a loader, and paintballs. It doesn't matter what order you buy them, you can't use them til you have all five. You can add the rest one piece at a time as you decide which is at the top of your priority list and what you can afford.

Your gun is going to be whatever you decide to start off with, that's up to you. When it comes to buying an initial tank and loader for it you need to be realistic. Your Tippman Model 98 is not going to benefit from dye rotor much and the performance gains from HPA over CO2 will be negligible. There's a good argument to be made that buying those pieces upfront means you won't have to buy them later. It's a good point. But if you aren't going to be moving onto a gun that will break 10bps anytime soon the money is better spent on actually making it to play and developing your skills, or buying that harness and pads.

CO2 is perfectly fine use up til about 10-12 bps. At that point the gaseous vapor used quicker than the liquid can convert to gas and the bottle freezes. Liquid may enter your gun but that's easily solved with a cheap anti siphon tube. Another problem is ambient temperature. On hot days the pressure will climb, on cold days it will fall. A spring kit takes care of both. You can get the tank, anti siphon tube, spring kit for about 1/2 the cost of a HPA tank.

You don't need to spend money on super loader either. The whole reason they were developed in the first place was to lay down uninterrupted strings of paint for tournament players. If you don't have an electro it's money better spent on other things. They will help take care of the odd chop but so will a $5 stick squeegee. Buy one, put it on a lanyard, and hang it around your neck. If you break a ball it takes about 10 seconds to shove it down your barrel and pull the paint out.

Another thing you should consider before you put an electro with HPA and a force feed loader is how much you want to spend on paint. They can drain your hopper faster than a wino can drain a bottle of Four Roses. You don't have to shoot alot but the tendency is to shoot alot if you have the capability. Can you justify that cost for the type of games you're playing? If so then get something fast put together. If not, don't bother.

Don't let yourself miss out on playing til you get a complete kit and don't miss out because you're trying to buy a whiz dammit gadget that won't help you that much. Like I said, once you get past the basic essentials everything else is there to relieve annoyances. Experience from plenty of play time early on is much more important.

#2 get.lit.up!

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:00 AM

Oh say that now. But when you break your knees, elbows or crotch during a game we will see who is laughing.

And let me see, you will condone bs like buying el cheapo, dimpled $20 paint at Walmart too?

And you also forget that co2, you need to pay for every fill, unlike hpa, one day unlimited air

And those cheap masks? I've seen some rental masks do better than mask that came in a package with mai co2 tankz and 98 customz
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#3 A&MBaller

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:26 AM

And let me see, you will condone bs like buying el cheapo, dimpled $20 paint at Walmart too?

And you also forget that co2, you need to pay for every fill, unlike hpa, one day unlimited air

And those cheap masks? I've seen some rental masks do better than mask that came in a package with mai co2 tankz and 98 customz



#4 fatalreaction

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

Oh say that now. But when you break your knees, elbows or crotch during a game we will see who is laughing.

And let me see, you will condone bs like buying el cheapo, dimpled $20 paint at Walmart too?

And you also forget that co2, you need to pay for every fill, unlike hpa, one day unlimited air

And those cheap masks? I've seen some rental masks do better than mask that came in a package with mai co2 tankz and 98 customz



You need to pay for CO2 at some fields, depending on where you play its $5 all day air no matter which type you use

Also you will get more shots out of a 20oz CO2 tank than you will out of a 48/300 or 68/3000 tank, and most players don't need a superloader for their guns, spend less than half of that on a damn halo and be fine for years... i've been saying all of this since i joined this damn forum but nobody will listen

Edited by fatalreaction, 17 March 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#5 dosh

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

"Oh say that now. But when you break your knees, elbows or crotch during a game we will see who is laughing. '

Hopefully no one will be laughing, they'll be trying to help the guy out. I didn't buy my first set of pads til maybe a year and half after I started playing. I've been playing since '99 and the only time I've seen a guy hurt his knee was while he was wearing pads, making a bad slides. Ankle injuries are much more common. Typically people won't worry about investing in pads til they want to start pushing further up off the break and making more agressive moves. They watch others making those moves and decide to add it to their repetoire. Pads, and the pants big enough to put them under become a priority on their upgrade list. I'm not going to tell someone who shows up in jeans and a tshirt they need to stay home til they spend a hundred dollars or better on things they haven't developed a playstyle to require yet.

'And let me see, you will condone bs like buying el cheapo, dimpled $20 paint at Walmart too?'

No but the reason why I would tell them not to is because they need to support their local feild. But if saving that money on paint allows you to afford feild and air fees. Do what you gotta do.

'And you also forget that co2, you need to pay for every fill, unlike hpa, one day unlimited air'

Since when? Everywhere I've been all day air included all day CO2.

'And those cheap masks? I've seen some rental masks do better than mask that came in a package with mai co2 tankz and 98 customz'

That's true, but those cheap masks will still protect your eyes even if they are crappy. It should defnitely be the first upgrade but they will do to start off with. Even when you do decide to get something better, it can be done incrementally. My first mask was a 32 Degree el cheapo that the shop sold me as part of a Spyder package for an extra $30 or so including a tank. My first upgrade was a thermal lens once I got tired of them fogging. They were crappy, but they got me in the game and that was the important thing.

#6 dosh

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:27 PM


Oh say that now. But when you break your knees, elbows or crotch during a game we will see who is laughing.

And let me see, you will condone bs like buying el cheapo, dimpled $20 paint at Walmart too?

And you also forget that co2, you need to pay for every fill, unlike hpa, one day unlimited air

And those cheap masks? I've seen some rental masks do better than mask that came in a package with mai co2 tankz and 98 customz



You need to pay for CO2 at some fields, depending on where you play its $5 all day air no matter which type you use

Also you will get more shots out of a 20oz CO2 tank than you will out of a 48/300 or 68/3000 tank, and most players don't need a superloader for their guns, spend less than half of that on a damn halo and be fine for years... i've been saying all of this since i joined this damn forum but nobody will listen


QFT

#7 CrowsFeast1

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:00 AM

It's true, the most important thing is to get out there. It was several years between my first time playing, and using all rental gear, and my second time playing and using my own stuff. The first time, the cheap masks were fine, it was an indoor field, and the mask didn't fog. My biggest take away from that experience was that the rental guns didn't shoot straight for crap. If the guy was more than 30 feet away, there was no way I would hit his mask or gun sticking out from behind cover (we were also playing against local tourney guys).

So when my housemate picked up an el cheapo Stryker at Canadian Tire, with a hopper for $80, I went and grabbed one too. I bought a mask and tank after that because once you have the gun, you really don't feel like using all rental stuff with it. I bought a decent mask, but wasn't overly concerned about it. I bought an air tank because it is a lot more convenient to get it filled, but I went with a cost-effective 3000 psi tank.

That was enough to set the spark in me to keep playing, and now I have upgraded my hopper and marker for various reasons to remove different factors which I viewed as impediments. If I hadn't sold my older equipment, could I go back and play nearly as well? Yes, absolutely. I would just be annoyed that the hopper was an agitator (always on, and not always so effective), and that the marker was incredibly loud.

#8 Lime

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:47 PM

What.

I love you.


#9 eightcoheed

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

Yea what you said is all good, but only for the very beginner lever of paintball. Want to move on to bigger and better things? You will have to upgrade eventually. Eventually you will need an HPA tank or an electric hopper, so why not just buy those off the start so you will save money in the long run? If you want to buy a fancy gun first, go for it. But I promise you will regret it. Back in the day when I first started, the spyder vs3 had just come out. It was the most amazing thing in the world (I only played outlaw ball), I wanted one so bad I bought it. Read all of the reviews saying you need HPA for it and a shake and shoot wont do shit on, but I still ran co2 and a shake and shoot on it. I hated the damn thing, not because it was a vs3, but because it never worked with the gear I didnt buy first. I could have used that $300 on a nice hopper and a nice tank.

Dont be stupid people. And OP, do what you want, but dont try spreading this crap to beginners who dont know much better. It will be better for them in the long run.

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#10 dosh

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

Yea what you said is all good, but only for the very beginner lever of paintball. Want to move on to bigger and better things? You will have to upgrade eventually. Eventually you will need an HPA tank or an electric hopper, so why not just buy those off the start so you will save money in the long run? If you want to buy a fancy gun first, go for it. But I promise you will regret it. Back in the day when I first started, the spyder vs3 had just come out. It was the most amazing thing in the world (I only played outlaw ball), I wanted one so bad I bought it. Read all of the reviews saying you need HPA for it and a shake and shoot wont do shit on, but I still ran co2 and a shake and shoot on it. I hated the damn thing, not because it was a vs3, but because it never worked with the gear I didnt buy first. I could have used that $300 on a nice hopper and a nice tank.

Dont be stupid people. And OP, do what you want, but dont try spreading this crap to beginners who dont know much better. It will be better for them in the long run.


I'm well beyond the beginner stage. I've been playing since '99, been deeply involved in two fields, ran a store, coached young guns, and played tourneys for most of that time.

This isn't crap, it's calling your 'common wisdom' bullshit. As near as I can tell this whole list of what to buy, ending in a gun, got started with Mr. Mike Phillips making a fairly decent video that assumes the person will buy one piece of equipment at a time and continue playing, slowly replacing their rental equipment.

That's a good way to go if you have the patience or you can only scrape a hundred bucks up every few months. But it's not the only path. My problem with this is I've seen way too many people go out with a low end set up and have a really good time every weekend. You seem to be equating money spent giving you an equal return on the enjoyment of the game. That's not necesarily true.

I'm seeing threads with new players asking about getting started being told to spend $120 on I4's, $150 on a rotor, and $150 on a tank, before they even think about a gun which will generally be suggested to be around $300-400. What the hell? Telling people the initial investment to get started in the sport being between $600 and $800 isn't going to help grow it. It's giving them a brick wall to deal with.

That's absolutely stupid. If you're going out to play recball you really only need a reliable gun, tank, hopper, and mask. If you want to play tourneys then yes you will need to upgrade eventually, but the vast majority of new players don't even have that on their radar, and won't for a few years if they ever get to it. In that time they can decide what makes sense for them to buy and what direction they want to head in. What of they want to stay in recball every few weekends, or go to scenarios/milsim? That tippman, co2 tank, and agitating loader or halo they bougbt will serve them just fine.

My experience and what I've seen over the years tells me you're wrong. Sure there are folks that will have an experience like you described, but it's nowhere close to everyone. One of the biggest reasons I've heard for people leaving the sport or not pursuing it has been expense. I'd prefer to tear that barrier down than build it up needlessly.

#11 get.lit.up!

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:00 AM

Well might as well just buy pro flex, a vsc phantom, a few 12ies at the pace the op it's taking this
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#12 kingJurzy

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:25 AM

Holy shit storm batman.


I have the end all setup.


$100 mask of your choice

$100 for pants and pads

$40 JT Z200

$40 for paint.


That is $280 to go play, you don't even have to spend $100 on a mask, a $50 profiler would do fine.

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#13 eightcoheed

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM


Yea what you said is all good, but only for the very beginner lever of paintball. Want to move on to bigger and better things? You will have to upgrade eventually. Eventually you will need an HPA tank or an electric hopper, so why not just buy those off the start so you will save money in the long run? If you want to buy a fancy gun first, go for it. But I promise you will regret it. Back in the day when I first started, the spyder vs3 had just come out. It was the most amazing thing in the world (I only played outlaw ball), I wanted one so bad I bought it. Read all of the reviews saying you need HPA for it and a shake and shoot wont do shit on, but I still ran co2 and a shake and shoot on it. I hated the damn thing, not because it was a vs3, but because it never worked with the gear I didnt buy first. I could have used that $300 on a nice hopper and a nice tank.

Dont be stupid people. And OP, do what you want, but dont try spreading this crap to beginners who dont know much better. It will be better for them in the long run.


I'm well beyond the beginner stage. I've been playing since '99, been deeply involved in two fields, ran a store, coached young guns, and played tourneys for most of that time.

This isn't crap, it's calling your 'common wisdom' bullshit. As near as I can tell this whole list of what to buy, ending in a gun, got started with Mr. Mike Phillips making a fairly decent video that assumes the person will buy one piece of equipment at a time and continue playing, slowly replacing their rental equipment.

That's a good way to go if you have the patience or you can only scrape a hundred bucks up every few months. But it's not the only path. My problem with this is I've seen way too many people go out with a low end set up and have a really good time every weekend. You seem to be equating money spent giving you an equal return on the enjoyment of the game. That's not necesarily true.

I'm seeing threads with new players asking about getting started being told to spend $120 on I4's, $150 on a rotor, and $150 on a tank, before they even think about a gun which will generally be suggested to be around $300-400. What the hell? Telling people the initial investment to get started in the sport being between $600 and $800 isn't going to help grow it. It's giving them a brick wall to deal with.

That's absolutely stupid. If you're going out to play recball you really only need a reliable gun, tank, hopper, and mask. If you want to play tourneys then yes you will need to upgrade eventually, but the vast majority of new players don't even have that on their radar, and won't for a few years if they ever get to it. In that time they can decide what makes sense for them to buy and what direction they want to head in. What of they want to stay in recball every few weekends, or go to scenarios/milsim? That tippman, co2 tank, and agitating loader or halo they bougbt will serve them just fine.

My experience and what I've seen over the years tells me you're wrong. Sure there are folks that will have an experience like you described, but it's nowhere close to everyone. One of the biggest reasons I've heard for people leaving the sport or not pursuing it has been expense. I'd prefer to tear that barrier down than build it up needlessly.


Where did I say you had to buy a rotor or $150 tank? I said electronic hopper and a hpa tank. A halo would work beautifully for any level honestly.
Based on how my paintball experience went as well as moat people around me, what I said is exactly what you should do. There were those kids who did buy just the basics (98 & co2) but they regretted it in the long run. Am I saying it's a bad place to start? Not at all. Its the only way to start. But once you have gotten into it, you will be upgrading. All mike and the people on this forum were trying to do is save money for the beginners in the long run.

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#14 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:55 PM

Gog eNMEy $130
Grav hopper/primo: $3-$15
68/3000:$40
Pro vantages: $40
End all begginer setup. Maximum investment of $225
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#15 Exile308

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:17 PM



Yea what you said is all good, but only for the very beginner lever of paintball. Want to move on to bigger and better things? You will have to upgrade eventually. Eventually you will need an HPA tank or an electric hopper, so why not just buy those off the start so you will save money in the long run? If you want to buy a fancy gun first, go for it. But I promise you will regret it. Back in the day when I first started, the spyder vs3 had just come out. It was the most amazing thing in the world (I only played outlaw ball), I wanted one so bad I bought it. Read all of the reviews saying you need HPA for it and a shake and shoot wont do shit on, but I still ran co2 and a shake and shoot on it. I hated the damn thing, not because it was a vs3, but because it never worked with the gear I didnt buy first. I could have used that $300 on a nice hopper and a nice tank.

Dont be stupid people. And OP, do what you want, but dont try spreading this crap to beginners who dont know much better. It will be better for them in the long run.


I'm well beyond the beginner stage. I've been playing since '99, been deeply involved in two fields, ran a store, coached young guns, and played tourneys for most of that time.

This isn't crap, it's calling your 'common wisdom' bullshit. As near as I can tell this whole list of what to buy, ending in a gun, got started with Mr. Mike Phillips making a fairly decent video that assumes the person will buy one piece of equipment at a time and continue playing, slowly replacing their rental equipment.

That's a good way to go if you have the patience or you can only scrape a hundred bucks up every few months. But it's not the only path. My problem with this is I've seen way too many people go out with a low end set up and have a really good time every weekend. You seem to be equating money spent giving you an equal return on the enjoyment of the game. That's not necesarily true.

I'm seeing threads with new players asking about getting started being told to spend $120 on I4's, $150 on a rotor, and $150 on a tank, before they even think about a gun which will generally be suggested to be around $300-400. What the hell? Telling people the initial investment to get started in the sport being between $600 and $800 isn't going to help grow it. It's giving them a brick wall to deal with.

That's absolutely stupid. If you're going out to play recball you really only need a reliable gun, tank, hopper, and mask. If you want to play tourneys then yes you will need to upgrade eventually, but the vast majority of new players don't even have that on their radar, and won't for a few years if they ever get to it. In that time they can decide what makes sense for them to buy and what direction they want to head in. What of they want to stay in recball every few weekends, or go to scenarios/milsim? That tippman, co2 tank, and agitating loader or halo they bougbt will serve them just fine.

My experience and what I've seen over the years tells me you're wrong. Sure there are folks that will have an experience like you described, but it's nowhere close to everyone. One of the biggest reasons I've heard for people leaving the sport or not pursuing it has been expense. I'd prefer to tear that barrier down than build it up needlessly.


Where did I say you had to buy a rotor or $150 tank? I said electronic hopper and a hpa tank. A halo would work beautifully for any level honestly.
Based on how my paintball experience went as well as moat people around me, what I said is exactly what you should do. There were those kids who did buy just the basics (98 & co2) but they regretted it in the long run. Am I saying it's a bad place to start? Not at all. Its the only way to start. But once you have gotten into it, you will be upgrading. All mike and the people on this forum were trying to do is save money for the beginners in the long run.


Most players that keep playing upgrade markers no matter were they start from.

Edited by Exile308, 03 April 2013 - 09:02 PM.





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