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How To Convince Parents?


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#1 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:19 PM

So, my parents aren't letting me buy from the forum cause they are convinced I will be buying someone's problem. I'm looking for an axe, which I understand has a lifetime warranty, but only if you buy new. But 3 questions... I'm thinking trademygun.com... Couple questions!
Would Kee still help if I bought an axe used and it goes down?
Is it worth it to buy the year warranty for $60 from trademygun?

#2 kingJurzy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

Would Kee still help if I bought an axe used and it goes down?
Most likely.
Is it worth it to buy the year warranty for $60 from trademygun?
No.


Just note that it is more expensive on trademygun.com


If you pay with paypal and the marker is not working, you can get your money back.

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#3 TotallyNotAKeeFanboy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

I bought an axe from trademygun, and I think as long as the marker hasn't been registered with their warranty site you should be able to register it (that's what I did). Trademygun runs out of my local field, paintballplex, and they're a great bunch of people to work with. As for the warranty, I personally don't think I would buy it. Since it's a limited warranty you're kind of playing roulette and betting on the marker breaking within that year. If it doesn't, you're out 60 bucks. Axes are pretty trouble free from what I've seen if you take care of them.

As for picking one of the axes from tmg, ask if you can get one that is LNIB. I bought a LNIB and it had literally never been used before. The tool kit and barrel sock were still in their packaging, and it even had the stupid little caution sticker on the feedneck.

As far as convincing your parents I would bring up things to support the legitimacy of the site including the fact that it's a double business with a real field and pro shop, so they have a reputation to maintain. In the end, they're just going to have to trust that you can make a smart decision. Buying paintball stuff gets a lot easier when you don't have to go to your parents for approval on everything :D

#4 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

I know, only about $30 so I'm not too crushed.
Can you explain how it would work with PayPal? I've heard that before, and I told my parents we could get our money back, but they looked at me like I was the dumbest person that had ever seen.

#5 kingJurzy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

You pay with the "goods" option which means that if the item was received as not described then you can file a claim and paypal can help you.

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#6 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

Told my dad, he replied, "that's not how it usually works, they just take a cut of the transaction and don't really give a poop."


Not sure if serious, or if he hates paintball more than I thought...

#7 kingJurzy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

The buyer does not pay fees and there are threads about how people got their money back.


Sorry for this but he is just ignorant.

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#8 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

I know, he becomes moody at night

#9 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:01 PM

He really is.
If you read about the stuff on paypal, it clearly tells you that you pay no fees and that you can always file a dispute as long as it was payed as goods.

#10 Llabtniap

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:03 PM

Would having your parents check a seller's feedback help at all maybe?

Edited by Llabtniap, 26 March 2013 - 10:15 PM.

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#11 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

Told my dad, he replied, "that's not how it usually works, they just take a cut of the transaction and don't really give a poop."


Not sure if serious, or if he hates paintball more than I thought...

Yeah your dad's wrong on this one. People use paypal because its secure and you can get your money back should there be a problem.

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 26 March 2013 - 10:09 PM.


#12 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

Just argued with him more, he doesn't like paintball, likes things his way, and thinks I'm lazy. I have awesome grades, I got a job, and explicitly said I'm getting a job for paintball. They are saying that PayPal isn't a warranty service, they simply transfer money. Also, they say that when I file a claim/dispute, I depend on the seller to fix the situation. Then he retorts to "You just got a new gun for Xmas." The problem for me is that anytime I question him, he thinks I'm challenging his parenting/lifestyle/beliefs/other shit. It's impossible to have a calm discussion about something I disagree with.
He means well, but is ultimately controlling and sometimes immature which is unfortunate cause he tries and means well, and I really love him for it, but I don't have a clue if he knows that.

Edited by Rhino1909, 26 March 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#13 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

Just go with your parents on this one then... Last thing you want is an eviction notice.

#14 kingJurzy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

The problem for me is that anytime I question him, he thinks I'm challenging his parenting/lifestyle/beliefs/other shit. It's impossible to have a calm discussion about something I disagree with.
He means well, but is ultimately controlling and sometimes immature which is unfortunate cause he tries and means well, and I really love him for it, but I don't have a clue if he knows that.


Sorry to bash on your dad.


He is ignorant and needs to learn to shut up and let things go another way. You can't control everything that happens in life and when something major happens that is the opposite of what he expects he will flip shit. I say save up and buy it behind his back and show him that you have things under control and that you are responsible.

Just go with your parents on this one then... Last thing you want is an eviction notice.


He sounds like he is a minor. Parent's can't do that, only minors can say they want to live independently from their parents.

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#15 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:32 PM


Just go with your parents on this one then... Last thing you want is an eviction notice.


He sounds like he is a minor. Parent's can't do that, only minors can say they want to live independently from their parents.


Ehh, there's still strong consequences to defying your parents.
Eviction is more of an exaggeration than anything.

#16 Llabtniap

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:35 PM

Just argued with him more, he doesn't like paintball, likes things his way, and thinks I'm lazy. I have awesome grades, I got a job, and explicitly said I'm getting a job for paintball. They are saying that PayPal isn't a warranty service, they simply transfer money. Also, they say that when I file a claim/dispute, I depend on the seller to fix the situation. Then he retorts to "You just got a new gun for Xmas." The problem for me is that anytime I question him, he thinks I'm challenging his parenting/lifestyle/beliefs/other shit. It's impossible to have a calm discussion about something I disagree with.
He means well, but is ultimately controlling and sometimes immature which is unfortunate cause he tries and means well, and I really love him for it, but I don't have a clue if he knows that.


Just wondering, what gun did you get for Christmas?
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#17 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:37 PM

Jurzy, I love your no bull attitude, but
1. less bashing, more solving.
2. buying behind his back will not solve anything. At. All. That doesn't show maturity.
And I got the enmey

Edited by Rhino1909, 26 March 2013 - 10:38 PM.


#18 kingJurzy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:37 PM



Just go with your parents on this one then... Last thing you want is an eviction notice.


He sounds like he is a minor. Parent's can't do that, only minors can say they want to live independently from their parents.


Ehh, there's still strong consequences to defying your parents.
Eviction is more of an exaggeration than anything.


I do it constantly and in the end they forgive me because I actually show them that I have earned it.

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#19 TotallyNotAKeeFanboy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:40 PM

He means well, but is ultimately controlling and sometimes immature which is unfortunate cause he tries and means well, and I really love him for it, but I don't have a clue if he knows that.

I give you serious props for being mature enough to say this the way you did. Maybe the new gun won't work out right now, but I respect you a lot for being able to see that your parents mean well and still say you love them instead of raging out and saying "my parents are rampant ass hats that want to throw me in a jail cell and serve me cat shit for every meal".

I would wait, maybe bring it up again in a couple weeks. They might have a change of heart if you back off about it for a while. If not, the used gun market isn't going anywhere. There is a gun out there for you somewhere.

#20 NBTIppy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:47 PM

If it is your money, that you earned, spend it however you want. If your parents are gifting you the money, do what they ask of you.

Warranty issues seem to be a concern of yours, understand that maintaining the reg on an Axe voids the warranty. The single reason that kept me from ever owning one.

#21 Vhyrus

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

If you just got an enmey I would probably just go with it for awhile. Gun whoring is a terrible addiction. Stop it early. If you are dead set on getting a gun you may just have to suck it up and buy a new gun in your price range. If you're looking at a used axe then I am ballparking you at around a 300 dollar budget, right? There are lots of great new guns at that price. Valken Proton, proto rail, DP G4/G5, GoG eXTCy, etc. I am sure I'm missing a few but definitely check those out. Your parents will have no way to bitch if you buy it new with your money.

Edited by Vhyrus, 26 March 2013 - 10:53 PM.


#22 Rhino1909

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:56 PM

My plan has been to always get an axe, i don't want a gun I'll feel bad beating on.

#23 Dogg3

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:01 PM

If you just got an enmey I would probably just go with it for awhile.

Your parents will have no way to bitch if you buy it new with your money.

Agree on point 1. Parents hate it when they feel like their gifts aren't appreciated, especially when they are pricey.

Disagree on point 2. My parents would've crapped bricks.

Edited by Dogg3, 26 March 2013 - 11:02 PM.

Oh and in case this isn't unprofessional enough yet.

Fuck, shit, boobs, purple monkey dishwasher.


#24 Filmer_jake

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:35 AM

What if you showed him the thread about the mods bringing down the hammer of justice on people that suck?

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#25 PBphilosopher

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:23 AM

Told my dad, he replied, "that's not how it usually works, they just take a cut of the transaction and don't really give a poop."


Not sure if serious, or if he hates paintball more than I thought...

If you use pay pal with a credit card you have 3 layers of protection.

1. Pay Pal Buyer Protection. (notoriously buyer favored, especially when item is not as described.) https://www.paypal.c...online-shopping

2. Pay Pay Dispute: https://www.paypal.c...tion-resolution

3. If both of those do not work you can file a dispute with your credit card company. Simply call the CC and say I want to dispute this charge and give the reason. They will immediately credit your account until the dispute is resolved.

#26 nighthunter

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:43 AM


If you just got an enmey I would probably just go with it for awhile.

Your parents will have no way to bitch if you buy it new with your money.

Agree on point 1. Parents hate it when they feel like their gifts aren't appreciated, especially when they are pricey.

Disagree on point 2. My parents would've crapped bricks.

Yeah, I'm actually kinda glad that my parents didn't give me any of my gear when I first got started. They never really had a problem with me getting new gear, so long as I had good reason for buying something, and it wasn't just an impulse buy. It was 100% my money and they let me use it however I liked.

That said, I think my parents would have been a bit offended if I wanted to replace a gun that they had recently bought for me, because then they would have seen it as their money being "thrown away." A lot of things change when you have an invested interest.

For the time being, I'd probably just leave the situation alone. Your folks seem pretty set in their ways for now, and it may take some time for them to come around.
In my opinion, it would be better to wait on the Axe for a bit than it would be if you went behind their backs and got it. Depending on how they react, that would probably cause more bad feelings, which seem to the the last thing you need at the moment.

Edited by nighthunter, 27 March 2013 - 02:44 AM.

nighthuntersig_edited-1.png



Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#27 Rhino1909

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:18 AM

My grandparents got it, but I think that they think that I don't understand the value of money

#28 kingJurzy

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

Jurzy, I love your no bull attitude, but
1. less bashing, more solving.
2. buying behind his back will not solve anything. At. All. That doesn't show maturity.
And I got the enmey


Ok Mr. Humble Posted Image

Why do you want an upgrade so soon? I love both ideas of either buying it yourself or waiting for the right time to tell him and I would go with the other member's opinions on this one. I have a type "A" personality and I really like to get things done and over with as quick as possible.


Good luck Posted Image

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#29 Akkadian_Tim

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:17 AM

My grandparents got it, but I think that they think that I don't understand the value of money


No offense, but you probably don't. You may know that the axe is a "better" marker, and you may know what the cost vs performance value is on paintball markers, but very few teenagers have any clue on the full value of money in general day in day out uses. They have to learn it by trial and error, just like everyone else.

Do I think the axe is better and a reasonable marker to choose? Sure. But that does not mean that you need to jump up and get one right now in order to play.

Don't feel bad "beating on" the marker you have. Unless you are intentionally abusing it (and anything can break with enough intentional abuse), it's not going to break just because it was cheaper than an axe. Just use it and have fun playing paintball.

And like others have said, the used market will always be there. You can get whatever you want later on there.

#30 unfated33

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:38 AM


My grandparents got it, but I think that they think that I don't understand the value of money


No offense, but you probably don't. You may know that the axe is a "better" marker, and you may know what the cost vs performance value is on paintball markers, but very few teenagers have any clue on the full value of money in general day in day out uses. They have to learn it by trial and error, just like everyone else.

Do I think the axe is better and a reasonable marker to choose? Sure. But that does not mean that you need to jump up and get one right now in order to play.

Don't feel bad "beating on" the marker you have. Unless you are intentionally abusing it (and anything can break with enough intentional abuse), it's not going to break just because it was cheaper than an axe. Just use it and have fun playing paintball.

And like others have said, the used market will always be there. You can get whatever you want later on there.

Plus, if what you desire is more the features of the Axe and less the Axe itself, you're probably not factoring in the opportunity benefit as much as the opportunity cost in waiting on the used market. The cost to wait on the used market is that at some point in the future you will either have spent the future money for an Axe on other things and/or the Axe stops becoming available at its current used price or less. The former is far more likely than the latter unless you set your future date out 10+ years.

The opportunity benefit to waiting is in multiples, though. First, it will give you a chance to get better with a mechanical marker and focus on playing skills over equipment. Second, there's an increased likelihood you will consume less paint with the eNMEy than with an Axe, though not as magnified as if you used an alternate mech marker. Third, every month you wait to buy a used Axe is another month that other used markers will depreciate further - and some of those used markers can have features much better than the Axe. Fourth, approximately every year you wait to buy a used Axe brings a chance that newer, cheaper, and/or better equipment will be available to you - just notice how the Drone DX is now cheaper than an Axe and the Alien Invasion is almost the same price for new gear while the Marq or Victory series will be $50 less or more on the used market this year. While I don't think there was a lot to be shown for the mid-range of markers at PBE, that doesn't also preclude companies from coming out with their next mid-range markers this year. Fifth, you will be held in higher esteem for longer by those in the forums that either a.) like the GOG eNMEy or b.) like mechanical markers - for whatever that may be worth.

Edited by unfated33, 27 March 2013 - 09:39 AM.

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#31 XxJellyFilledxX

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:43 AM

My mom is exactly like you describe your dad as. Honestly the only way i got around it was time, wait until your next birthday and ask for an axe, or at least permission to buy an axe.


jus sayin, for walkon id take an enemy over an axe...

Edited by XxJellyFilledxX, 27 March 2013 - 09:45 AM.

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#32 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:58 AM

A local proshop might have some used Axes for about the used going prices, and if your local proshop is like mine, they have a free 1 year warranty on used markers.

fuck yolo
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#33 ZzBrutality

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

What if you showed him the thread about the mods bringing down the hammer of justice on people that suck?

Care to link the thread? I kinda wanna see this :P

#34 Filmer_jake

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:13 AM


What if you showed him the thread about the mods bringing down the hammer of justice on people that suck?

Care to link the thread? I kinda wanna see this :P


"DO NOT Scam anybody here, we'll fuck your shit up =)"


There is the link. Enjoy.

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#35 Llabtniap

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

http://www.techpb.co...&hl=orange&st=0

This, is why I love TechPB
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#36 Filmer_jake

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:45 AM

http://www.techpb.co...&hl=orange&st=0

This, is why I love TechPB


Beat ya to it ;) check the post above yours haha

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#37 Llabtniap

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:49 AM


http://www.techpb.co...&hl=orange&st=0

This, is why I love TechPB


Beat ya to it ;) check the post above yours haha


I know I was stating why I love this awesome community
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#38 PBphilosopher

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:07 PM



My grandparents got it, but I think that they think that I don't understand the value of money


No offense, but you probably don't. You may know that the axe is a "better" marker, and you may know what the cost vs performance value is on paintball markers, but very few teenagers have any clue on the full value of money in general day in day out uses. They have to learn it by trial and error, just like everyone else.

Do I think the axe is better and a reasonable marker to choose? Sure. But that does not mean that you need to jump up and get one right now in order to play.

Don't feel bad "beating on" the marker you have. Unless you are intentionally abusing it (and anything can break with enough intentional abuse), it's not going to break just because it was cheaper than an axe. Just use it and have fun playing paintball.

And like others have said, the used market will always be there. You can get whatever you want later on there.

Plus, if what you desire is more the features of the Axe and less the Axe itself, you're probably not factoring in the opportunity benefit as much as the opportunity cost in waiting on the used market. The cost to wait on the used market is that at some point in the future you will either have spent the future money for an Axe on other things and/or the Axe stops becoming available at its current used price or less. The former is far more likely than the latter unless you set your future date out 10+ years.

The opportunity benefit to waiting is in multiples, though. First, it will give you a chance to get better with a mechanical marker and focus on playing skills over equipment. Second, there's an increased likelihood you will consume less paint with the eNMEy than with an Axe, though not as magnified as if you used an alternate mech marker. Third, every month you wait to buy a used Axe is another month that other used markers will depreciate further - and some of those used markers can have features much better than the Axe. Fourth, approximately every year you wait to buy a used Axe brings a chance that newer, cheaper, and/or better equipment will be available to you - just notice how the Drone DX is now cheaper than an Axe and the Alien Invasion is almost the same price for new gear while the Marq or Victory series will be $50 less or more on the used market this year. While I don't think there was a lot to be shown for the mid-range of markers at PBE, that doesn't also preclude companies from coming out with their next mid-range markers this year. Fifth, you will be held in higher esteem for longer by those in the forums that either a.) like the GOG eNMEy or b.) like mechanical markers - for whatever that may be worth.


I agree with this 100%. You can also upgrade your eNMEy with HPA and a nice loader, get a nice mask, then later down the road, if you still want an axe you can use all those upgrades on it.

#39 Sin_Ister611

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

Kee has one of the top 3 best customer services in the industry, hands down. They helped me with a problem they didn't have to when dangerous power (who was at fault) told me I'm SOL. I did not have a warrenty on my tank while this happened and what ended up happening was they sent me a brand new tank when all I needed was a new bonnet and asa on the cost of shipping to them.

Also hwhen buying on the forums techpb is the safest forum to buy and sell on. Everyone I've done business with has been more than willing to give personal phone numbers, email accounts, provide feedback, and some have even given follow up messages to see if everything was up to your standards with the deal. Let your parents know that we are a positive community that would gladly get on the phone with them personally and give them a run down of the product, send extra pics, tracking numbers, and have more than enough people eager to track down scammers if someone ever gets dumb enough to try anything.

#40 Filmer_jake

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:33 PM



http://www.techpb.co...&hl=orange&st=0

This, is why I love TechPB


Beat ya to it ;) check the post above yours haha


I know I was stating why I love this awesome community


Ohhh haha I gotcha Posted Image

DM12, 2011 Alien Independence, V3 Rotor, Empire 68/4500


#41 sonicx059

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

starting to look like this thread is taking off.

Although in regards to getting the AXE you can contone to use the NME for a while which will work.

Also, don't they have the upgrades for the NME to turn it into an electro?

Then after a while you can get an AXE and have a nice backup gun.

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#42 Rhino1909

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

Haha, I'd still have difficulty explaining why I need eflexes over my flex 8s
And i value money much more than a lot of people, I've always had to work for stuff. And my parents are generally strict, which I think is good, they don't let me slack off in anything, school, sports, etc. Obviously I don't pay bills, but I've been taught not to be a lazy POS

Edited by Rhino1909, 27 March 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#43 Rhino1909

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:33 PM

And I've decided to buy a mask when it gets warm, and just wait until summer when I work 40 hours/week instead of current 15-16 hours

#44 nighthunter

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:20 PM

The Flex 8 is a great mask. The foam is nice, and it has better ear/jaw protection than its cousin the proflex.
The main difference between the Flex8/proflex and the eflex is that the Eflex has a quick-change lens. The foam is basically the same between the two, and they both have the same amount of ventilation, so that's not so much an issue.

If you don't have an HPA tank and a nice electronic loader, that would be a couple of "less-painful" upgrades you could get that would last you for several years, and would improve your playing experience.

nighthuntersig_edited-1.png



Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#45 Rhino1909

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:01 PM

I got 68/4500 and halo too. I assumed the eflex was better because of ventilation and breathing ability. Not worth it?

#46 Jawz

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:02 PM

I got 68/4500 and halo too. I assumed the eflex was better because of ventilation and breathing ability. Not worth it?


Not yet! Wait until you have to change the lense then consider it.
109.gif

 

 

 


#47 nighthunter

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:34 PM


I got 68/4500 and halo too. I assumed the eflex was better because of ventilation and breathing ability. Not worth it?


Not yet! Wait until you have to change the lense then consider it.

They'll feel about the same when you wear them. After about a year or so (or whenever you feel you need a new lens,) then get a new mask. I love the way flex masks feel on my face, but I utterly detest changing their lenses.

nighthuntersig_edited-1.png



Using a gun that's been hardly maintained and tossed from person to person more than a village whore is hardly a fair way to compare the marker.

 


#48 Exile308

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:51 PM


The problem for me is that anytime I question him, he thinks I'm challenging his parenting/lifestyle/beliefs/other shit. It's impossible to have a calm discussion about something I disagree with.
He means well, but is ultimately controlling and sometimes immature which is unfortunate cause he tries and means well, and I really love him for it, but I don't have a clue if he knows that.


Sorry to bash on your dad.


He is ignorant and needs to learn to shut up and let things go another way. You can't control everything that happens in life and when something major happens that is the opposite of what he expects he will flip shit. I say save up and buy it behind his back and show him that you have things under control and that you are responsible.

Just go with your parents on this one then... Last thing you want is an eviction notice.


He sounds like he is a minor. Parent's can't do that, only minors can say they want to live independently from their parents.



As a parent I wouldn't take advice from a forum because I said so. What I might do after talking to my kid and telling him or her no is check out the forum. I know for sure if people on the forum were talking about me that way my kid wouldn't be back.

The parent is in charge I don't know the whole situation. But I don't think it is as bad as the minor makes it out. If the parent really hated paintball the kid wouldn't get to play ever.

#49 Exile308

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:07 PM

I got 68/4500 and halo too. I assumed the eflex was better because of ventilation and breathing ability. Not worth it?



You have your first gun, a mask, hopper and tank. So either use that money you have so you can play or maybe some pants or what not. You have had your gun like three months enjoy it keep working and save your money.

#50 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:13 PM



The problem for me is that anytime I question him, he thinks I'm challenging his parenting/lifestyle/beliefs/other shit. It's impossible to have a calm discussion about something I disagree with.
He means well, but is ultimately controlling and sometimes immature which is unfortunate cause he tries and means well, and I really love him for it, but I don't have a clue if he knows that.


Sorry to bash on your dad.


He is ignorant and needs to learn to shut up and let things go another way. You can't control everything that happens in life and when something major happens that is the opposite of what he expects he will flip shit. I say save up and buy it behind his back and show him that you have things under control and that you are responsible.

Just go with your parents on this one then... Last thing you want is an eviction notice.


He sounds like he is a minor. Parent's can't do that, only minors can say they want to live independently from their parents.



As a parent I wouldn't take advice from a forum because I said so. What I might do after talking to my kid and telling him or her no is check out the forum. I know for sure if people on the forum were talking about me that way my kid wouldn't be back.

The parent is in charge I don't know the whole situation. But I don't think it is as bad as the minor makes it out. If the parent really hated paintball the kid wouldn't get to play ever.

And you'd be proving them all right.




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