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#1 Pump Player

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

Why do people always complain about kick? I like it when i get some feedback, vibration, kick, and a loud report from my guns. I used my brothers 2011 rail and i was unimpressed. My Crossie has good kick, nice sound, and just a bit too much vibration, but its a blast to shoot. i would understand if your gun kicked like a Glock or something, but not even a cocker or Ego kicks remotely close to a .22. So if anyone could explain why its a much complained about nature of the marker, thanks in advance

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#2 fatalll

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:09 PM

gun kick is a convenient way to blame missed shots. Posted Image
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#3 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:15 PM

yeah kick is an excuse for inaccuracy.

Kick isn't really kick, it's more of a realization of your bolt/hammer resetting.

#4 madsnipes

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

Its a luxury, not an important selling point.

#5 That_guy097

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

I have noticed interesting things between pump and electro. Neither one has "kick" but I noticed barrel rise while playing electro. I don't know if I'm not holding the marker as tight or what but I found it interesting.

On a different note my buddy has a .22 with no kick (actually similar to a paintball gun). I'm slightly daft when it comes to guns but it was an old old .22

#6 Pump Player

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

I have noticed interesting things between pump and electro. Neither one has "kick" but I noticed barrel rise while playing electro. I don't know if I'm not holding the marker as tight or what but I found it interesting.

On a different note my buddy has a .22 with no kick (actually similar to a paintball gun). I'm slightly daft when it comes to guns but it was an old old .22

my dad owns alot of real guns, so it may be that im more used to shooting AKs and Mosins than markers that i like the response of rise. its the main reason id rather have an ego 11 over a lv1, because i like a gun to be rough shooting and loud

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#7 Lime

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

Its a luxury, not an important selling point.


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#8 That_guy097

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:38 PM


I have noticed interesting things between pump and electro. Neither one has "kick" but I noticed barrel rise while playing electro. I don't know if I'm not holding the marker as tight or what but I found it interesting.

On a different note my buddy has a .22 with no kick (actually similar to a paintball gun). I'm slightly daft when it comes to guns but it was an old old .22

my dad owns alot of real guns, so it may be that im more used to shooting AKs and Mosins than markers that i like the response of rise. its the main reason id rather have an ego 11 over a lv1, because i like a gun to be rough shooting and loud

I like the rise when I play too. I have an old angel a4 when I play electro and when I get on the trigger it feels awesome lol. Playing pump it's a toss up. I love the sound of my phantom but I just love how quiet my t2 is. (Not hold the pump handle when you shoot)

#9 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

"Kick" is nothing more than newtons 3rd law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you dry fire most guns, the reciprocating mass is negligible. Put a paintball in, and the barrel will rise much more. Every paintball gun will have some kick, its just based on over what time you accelerate the paintball. I realize there are other factors, but that's the main one. So people need to stop complaining
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#10 dosh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

It's a buzz word thing, kind of like bps was, then low pressure, then weight, now kick. Guns haven't had a substantial improvement in a very long time. Manufacturers need selling points and players need justification for why their marker is better than the last. Right now kick is it.

#11 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

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#12 Vhyrus

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.

#13 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:09 PM

I never knew paintball guns kicked people. You learn something new everyday.

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#14 Vhyrus

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:13 PM

I never knew paintball guns kicked people. You learn something new everyday.


Some kick asses, some kick faces, some even kick dirt, rocks, or sand.

#15 kingJurzy

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:14 PM

^^^^^^
You missed them kicking balls.

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#16 Orange Chicken

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:32 PM

Its nice to have a smooth shooting gun. Dont compare them to real guns. But kick can get annoying. Its much more convenient and pleasant to shoot a smooth shooting gun.

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#17 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:33 PM

Why do people always complain about kick? I like it when i get some feedback, vibration, kick, and a loud report from my guns. I used my brothers 2011 rail and i was unimpressed. My Crossie has good kick, nice sound, and just a bit too much vibration, but its a blast to shoot. i would understand if your gun kicked like a Glock or something, but not even a cocker or Ego kicks remotely close to a .22. So if anyone could explain why its a much complained about nature of the marker, thanks in advance


Try shooting a lane on PSP 12.5 one handed with a really kicky marker and you'll understand.

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 30 March 2013 - 07:33 PM.


#18 fatalll

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:37 PM


Why do people always complain about kick? I like it when i get some feedback, vibration, kick, and a loud report from my guns. I used my brothers 2011 rail and i was unimpressed. My Crossie has good kick, nice sound, and just a bit too much vibration, but its a blast to shoot. i would understand if your gun kicked like a Glock or something, but not even a cocker or Ego kicks remotely close to a .22. So if anyone could explain why its a much complained about nature of the marker, thanks in advance


Try shooting a lane on PSP 12.5 one handed with a really kicky marker and you'll understand.


not sure i do, no issue with an ego or vice at least.
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#19 darthp

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

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Haha awesome.
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#20 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:15 PM



Why do people always complain about kick? I like it when i get some feedback, vibration, kick, and a loud report from my guns. I used my brothers 2011 rail and i was unimpressed. My Crossie has good kick, nice sound, and just a bit too much vibration, but its a blast to shoot. i would understand if your gun kicked like a Glock or something, but not even a cocker or Ego kicks remotely close to a .22. So if anyone could explain why its a much complained about nature of the marker, thanks in advance


Try shooting a lane on PSP 12.5 one handed with a really kicky marker and you'll understand.


not sure i do, no issue with an ego or vice at least.

Which Ego? Even the Alias and earlier are still pretty smooth (partly due to weight) so that's not really applicable.

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 30 March 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#21 Nobben #44

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:36 PM

I judge my guns how they feel in my hands and how they shoot. Never really cared about these things like cick, oled and efficiency.

#22 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:41 PM

I judge my guns how they feel in my hands and how they shoot. Never really cared about these things like cick, oled and efficiency.

+1 on this, but I'm not sure I understand the difference "how they shoot" and kick. Do you mean smoothness vs kick?

#23 pballgiant

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:49 PM

The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.

When you are using laning with psp with your gun it is nice to be able to put down a consistent stream of paint. Also people spend $1000+ on their markers so you should expect nice shot "quality"
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#24 Nobben #44

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:52 PM


I judge my guns how they feel in my hands and how they shoot. Never really cared about these things like cick, oled and efficiency.

+1 on this, but I'm not sure I understand the difference "how they shoot" and kick. Do you mean smoothness vs kick?


Vibrations, sound and stuff like that. Smooth is preceptional. I think my Ego11 is smoother than Midnight Mark, but some say it "kicks" too much.

#25 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:57 PM

Snip, double post

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 30 March 2013 - 09:02 PM.


#26 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:01 PM



I judge my guns how they feel in my hands and how they shoot. Never really cared about these things like cick, oled and efficiency.

+1 on this, but I'm not sure I understand the difference "how they shoot" and kick. Do you mean smoothness vs kick?


Vibrations, sound and stuff like that. Smooth is preceptional. I think my Ego11 is smoother than Midnight Mark, but some say it "kicks" too much.


Gotcha, you mean the overall "feel" of the shot. I agree on the Ego since I hardly notice how my gun shoots while playing anyhow.

The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.

Haha, okay there tough guy. :rolleyes:

Paintball gun kick is relative to other paintball guns. I shoot trap with shotguns andbI still prefer a marker with less kick/a smoother shot over another with more kick, given everything else is equal.

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 30 March 2013 - 09:05 PM.


#27 TJO

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:28 PM

I think the main thing with kick is stream tightness admittedly paint makes the biggest difference but if your shooting a lane of paint with a gun that kicks like say an ego, and a lane with a luxe the luxe will put more balls on top of each other because the gun is not moving and changing where the ball lands

#28 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:33 PM

The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.




Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.

#29 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:40 PM


The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.




Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.

If youre paying $1000+ for a marker do you want the one with less or more kick? At that price point its fair to bitch about the little things IMO.

#30 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:47 PM



The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.


[video]

Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.

If youre paying $1000+ for a marker do you want the one with less or more kick? At that price point its fair to bitch about the little things IMO.

I doubt I'll ever pay that much for a marker, but I do agree at that price point a gun better be worth it. But, as far as recoil and physics go its a moot point. And to Macho Man Vhyrus who shoots the real guns, you're not the only one who shoots firearms, nobody cares, learn context, don't flatter yourself.

#31 fatalll

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:51 PM

If youre paying $1000+ for a marker do you want the one with less or more kick? At that price point its fair to bitch about the little things IMO.


cant say i completely agree, the pushback is minute, and i'm not sure how money is meant to beat physics. but i'm also weird in that i don't feel a difference between a luxe and an ego in this or most other regards
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#32 bigx

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

I have an Etek 2 and a G6R neither of them have any noticeable "kick" sometimes get a bit of barrel rise when shooting a long stream or a lane of paint but hell thats just physics.

If you are worried about how much your marker kicks do some forearm workouts to stop it from happening, or actually play paintball, you wont have time to notice.

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#33 canscom

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:03 PM

Its just people whining
Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

#34 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:05 PM

PS: No fapping is not a forearm workout.

Are you sure? I have some pretty strong forearms...

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#35 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:13 PM



If youre paying $1000+ for a marker do you want the one with less or more kick? At that price point its fair to bitch about the little things IMO.


cant say i completely agree, the pushback is minute, and i'm not sure how money is meant to beat physics. but i'm also weird in that i don't feel a difference between a luxe and an ego in this or most other regards

Yeah, way to simply engineering as "money". Lower reciprocating mass at lower speed and/or more balanced forces equals less perceived "kick". Air cushions and the like help create gradual acceleration and deceleration which reduce it as well.

If you dont feel a difference between an Ego and a Luxe side by side Im sorry, but you need more experience with paintball guns. Now, while in game its a whole 'nother story.

#36 Jawz

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:14 AM

Personal preference. I hate kick and as you can see some like it.
3_zpsxumdj9dm.gif

 

 

 


#37 Vhyrus

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:31 AM



Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.


The fundamental flaw in his argument is that a paintball weighing 3 grams accelerating to 300 fps somehow produces recoil, but a bolt weighing 5 to 10 times more moving much much faster does not. That's absolute garbage.

Edited by Vhyrus, 31 March 2013 - 01:09 AM.


#38 Nobben #44

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:42 AM

PS: No fapping is not a forearm workout.



FUCK! :angry:

#39 dosh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:13 AM

I think the main thing with kick is stream tightness admittedly paint makes the biggest difference but if your shooting a lane of paint with a gun that kicks like say an ego, and a lane with a luxe the luxe will put more balls on top of each other because the gun is not moving and changing where the ball lands


I don't think it makes that big of a difference then. If you're laning the spacing between the balls is more important than the grouping, as you are trying to catch someone running through your line of paint. If I am holding a twelve inch grouping then I'm still within the cross section of the average player, provided he doesn't squeeze through between balls he's going to get hit.

#40 Akkadian_Tim

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:40 AM

I have never had an issue with any paintball "kick", 12 bps or otherwise.

And I don't have any idea why someone else would.

#41 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:51 AM



[video]

Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.


The fundamental flaw in his argument is that a paintball weighing 3 grams accelerating to 300 fps somehow produces recoil, but a bolt weighing 5 to 10 times more moving much much faster does not. That's absolute garbage.

Nevermind, no cure for stupid, I need to quit attempting to find one.

Edited by PREDATOR 47, 31 March 2013 - 09:55 AM.


#42 fatalll

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:14 AM



If youre paying $1000+ for a marker do you want the one with less or more kick? At that price point its fair to bitch about the little things IMO.


cant say i completely agree, the pushback is minute, and i'm not sure how money is meant to beat physics. but i'm also weird in that i don't feel a difference between a luxe and an ego in this or most other regards

Yeah, way to simply engineering as "money". Lower reciprocating mass at lower speed and/or more balanced forces equals less perceived "kick". Air cushions and the like help create gradual acceleration and deceleration which reduce it as well.

If you dont feel a difference between an Ego and a Luxe side by side Im sorry, but you need more experience with paintball guns. Now, while in game its a whole 'nother story.


i don't feel a real difference in shot quality. the luxe has better ergos because it is a bit longer, and is quieter by a noticeable amount but i only have a few games experience with a luxe, im just saying while playing with it, the way it shot with the same paint was not noticeably different to me.
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#43 Orange Chicken

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

Ive never had an actual issue with it. I mean, it would bug me to death, but I'd preform about the same on a speedball field. But if I were to get a gun, why not have one that shoots silky slick smooth?

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#44 Vhyrus

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:27 PM




[video]

Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.


The fundamental flaw in his argument is that a paintball weighing 3 grams accelerating to 300 fps somehow produces recoil, but a bolt weighing 5 to 10 times more moving much much faster does not. That's absolute garbage.

Nevermind, no cure for stupid, I need to quit attempting to find one.


Translation: I can't argue against it so I'll just call you stupid and run away.

Very classy.

Since you seem to be enough of an expert to judge my intelligence over the internet, I would like to know what sort of education or experience you have in physics or engineering to attain such a proficiency.

Edited by Vhyrus, 31 March 2013 - 12:32 PM.


#45 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:21 PM





[video]

Basically how I feel about kick and whatnot in a nutshell.


The fundamental flaw in his argument is that a paintball weighing 3 grams accelerating to 300 fps somehow produces recoil, but a bolt weighing 5 to 10 times more moving much much faster does not. That's absolute garbage.

Nevermind, no cure for stupid, I need to quit attempting to find one.


Translation: I can't argue against it so I'll just call you stupid and run away.

Very classy.

Since you seem to be enough of an expert to judge my intelligence over the internet, I would like to know what sort of education or experience you have in physics or engineering to attain such a proficiency.

Thanks for calling me classy, I like to think so as well. I also like how you are calling me classy when you decided to call a lot of paintball players "underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun". You did a good job of taking things out of context and bringing firearms into a discussion about the recoil of paintball markers, where they have no relevance. You also did an excellent job of insulting a majority of the paintball community and definitively proving your complete lack of hypocrisy. Bravo.

And to address your previous post, allow me to explain why I believe you are wrong. Here is a video of an ego9 using an ego5 bolt, and you can clearly see in the video that the bolt does not move "much much faster" like you said.



The Ego5 bolt weighs approximately 20 grams, and taking your average weight of a paintball, being 3 grams, that makes the bolt only about 6 2/3 times heavier than the paintball, not 10 times heavier. It also doesn't move very far, unlike a firearm, which has to chamber and eject cartridges, which have a tendency to be longer than a paintball.

Due to the short distance it moves and the relatively slow speed and light weight of the bolt, this means that that the kinetic energy is also somewhat low. But none of that matters, considering the bolt reciprocates. Because the bolt reciprocates, the net displacement of the bolt is zero. Because of this, the net force of work done by the bolt would also be zero. When a paintball is fired, there is an equal and opposite reaction of the paintball being launched from the barrel, meaning that force goes backwards towards the shooter.

And paintball guns are not very well designed as far as recoil control goes, but it doesn't matter since there isn't enough to affect the shot to the point of needing to be fixed. Paintball guns have a relatively low contact point where the tank meets the shoulder. With most rifles, the stock is inline with the barrel, which sends the force back into the shoulder. Because paintball guns are shouldered much lower than a firearm, this acts as a pivot point, which causes an increased tendency for the barrel to rise. The recoil force itself is low, but the pivot point amplifies the effect of barrel rise on a paintball marker.

#46 Vhyrus

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:20 PM

1. Firearms are not at all out of context when talking about recoil. It's like if you only ever drove golf carts around, you would probably think "wow, this one golf cart is WAY faster than the others.", or "This one handles much better.", but if you actually went out and drove a real car for a period of time and then came back, you would realize they were all in fact slow and there was not a great deal of difference between any of them. Certain paintball guns do have more kick than most, but none of them have enough kick to even warrant a discussion over it. Anyone who has shot a firearm will understand that.

2. A majority of the paintball community? So a majority of people complain about the kick of their guns? That's funny, I only see about 3 people on this thread doing that. I didn't realize there were only 5 paintball players. The OP even started his post with "Why do people always complain about kick?", so I guess he doesn't get it either. We must be stupid together.

3. Did you really mean lack of hypocrisy? I'm honestly not sure if you were being sarcastic or if you just screwed that entire statement up. If it is the former, please show me where I have contradicted myself.

4. 5 to 10 times heavier is what I wrote. Since 5<6.66<10, your math supports my statement. I will give you that, after thinking about it more, saying the bolt moves 'much faster' is probably a mistake on my part. However, while the net work is zero as you stated, the bolt does, in most guns, impact the body of the gun on both the forward and reverse movement, which would impart momentum into the gun, causing RECOIL. If moving 3 grams of mass supposedly causes recoil than there is no way that 15-20 grams of mass impacting the gun twice does not cause recoil.

5. Your final point is also true, but remember, we are talking about literally grams worth of weight moving around. Recoil is not something that should be debated this intensely for paintball guns. People who complain about kick need to gain some perspective on how little force they are actually feeling. One great way would be to experience a normal amount of recoil from, oh, lets say a real gun! Then they can realize that they have been bitching over nothing!

In closing, had you simply responded with the video and the second half of your post without initially calling me stupid, this would never have spiraled into such ugliness to begin with. I would also say that if a random person on a random website calling a random group of people 'crybabies' (a group that the person himself is part of) offends you so greatly that you feel the need to start attacking that person, you may want to spend less time on the internet.

Edited by Vhyrus, 31 March 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#47 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:25 PM

Why do people always complain about kick? I like it when i get some feedback, vibration, kick, and a loud report from my guns. I used my brothers 2011 rail and i was unimpressed. My Crossie has good kick, nice sound, and just a bit too much vibration, but its a blast to shoot. i would understand if your gun kicked like a Glock or something, but not even a cocker or Ego kicks remotely close to a .22. So if anyone could explain why its a much complained about nature of the marker, thanks in advance


I would just like to point out that those aren't "good" things to any competitive player. If I'm paying top dollar for a marker I want to get every possible advantage from it, which means the smoothest and quietest shot possible.

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 31 March 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#48 fatalll

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

1. Firearms are not at all out of context when talking about recoil. It's like if you only ever drove golf carts around, you would probably think "wow, this one golf cart is WAY faster than the others.", or "This one handles much better.", but if you actually went out and drove a real car for a period of time and then came back, you would realize they were all in fact slow and there was not a great deal of difference between any of them. Certain paintball guns do have more kick than most, but none of them have enough kick to even warrant a discussion over it. Anyone who has shot a firearm will understand that.


until you are racing golf carts not real cars Posted Image

kind of like until you are shooting paintball guns not real guns.

you basically proved his point.
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#49 Orange Chicken

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

1. Firearms are not at all out of context when talking about recoil. It's like if you only ever drove golf carts around, you would probably think "wow, this one golf cart is WAY faster than the others.", or "This one handles much better.", but if you actually went out and drove a real car for a period of time and then came back, you would realize they were all in fact slow and there was not a great deal of difference between any of them. Certain paintball guns do have more kick than most, but none of them have enough kick to even warrant a discussion over it. Anyone who has shot a firearm will understand that.

2. A majority of the paintball community? So a majority of people complain about the kick of their guns? That's funny, I only see about 3 people on this thread doing that. I didn't realize there were only 5 paintball players. The OP even started his post with "Why do people always complain about kick?", so I guess he doesn't get it either. We must be stupid together.

3. Did you really mean lack of hypocrisy? I'm honestly not sure if you were being sarcastic or if you just screwed that entire statement up. If it is the former, please show me where I have contradicted myself.

4. 5 to 10 times heavier is what I wrote. Since 5<6.66<10, your math supports my statement. I will give you that, after thinking about it more, saying the bolt moves 'much faster' is probably a mistake on my part. However, while the net work is zero as you stated, the bolt does, in most guns, impact the body of the gun on both the forward and reverse movement, which would impart momentum into the gun, causing RECOIL. If moving 3 grams of mass supposedly causes recoil than there is no way that 15-20 grams of mass impacting the gun twice does not cause recoil.

5. Your final point is also true, but remember, we are talking about literally grams worth of weight moving around. Recoil is not something that should be debated this intensely for paintball guns. People who complain about kick need to gain some perspective on how little force they are actually feeling. One great way would be to experience a normal amount of recoil from, oh, lets say a real gun! Then they can realize that they have been bitching over nothing!

In closing, had you simply responded with the video and the second half of your post without initially calling me stupid, this would never have spiraled into such ugliness to begin with. I would also say that if a random person on a random website calling a random group of people 'crybabies' (a group that the person himself is part of) offends you so greatly that you feel the need to start attacking that person, you may want to spend less time on the internet.

I've shot a real firearm before. I shoot firearms a lot. Uncle does competitive shooting. He too prefers that his markers don't have much kick, which is why he is selling his Etek. Does that mean that I too have to act like a condescending badass and bitch about people who prefer the lack of an annoyance, like kick, just to legitimize to the online community that you are indeed a condescending badass?

It's an annoyance, and if Marker A and Marker B have the same efficiency, trigger, everything, but Marker B has less kick, then we'd bitch and moan because Marker A is now not as good as Marker B. Since we're comparing this to guns, we might as well relate this argument to boobs.
Girl A and Girl B are near identical in looks and personality. Difference is, Girl B has nicer tits. So are you going to complain that we prefer Girl B because Girl A has a flat chest? I mean, wouldn't they preform the same? It's an annoyance, and we have every right to prefer nice breasts.

That's Orange Chicken's argument.

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#50 PREDATOR 47

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

1. Firearms are not at all out of context when talking about recoil. It's like if you only ever drove golf carts around, you would probably think "wow, this one golf cart is WAY faster than the others.", or "This one handles much better.", but if you actually went out and drove a real car for a period of time and then came back, you would realize they were all in fact slow and there was not a great deal of difference between any of them. Certain paintball guns do have more kick than most, but none of them have enough kick to even warrant a discussion over it. Anyone who has shot a firearm will understand that.

2. A majority of the paintball community? So a majority of people complain about the kick of their guns? That's funny, I only see about 3 people on this thread doing that. I didn't realize there were only 5 paintball players. The OP even started his post with "Why do people always complain about kick?", so I guess he doesn't get it either. We must be stupid together.

3. Did you really mean lack of hypocrisy? I'm honestly not sure if you were being sarcastic or if you just screwed that entire statement up. If it is the former, please show me where I have contradicted myself.

4. 5 to 10 times heavier is what I wrote. Since 5<6.66<10, your math supports my statement. I will give you that, after thinking about it more, saying the bolt moves 'much faster' is probably a mistake on my part. However, while the net work is zero as you stated, the bolt does, in most guns, impact the body of the gun on both the forward and reverse movement, which would impart momentum into the gun, causing RECOIL. If moving 3 grams of mass supposedly causes recoil than there is no way that 15-20 grams of mass impacting the gun twice does not cause recoil.

5. Your final point is also true, but remember, we are talking about literally grams worth of weight moving around. Recoil is not something that should be debated this intensely for paintball guns. People who complain about kick need to gain some perspective on how little force they are actually feeling. One great way would be to experience a normal amount of recoil from, oh, lets say a real gun! Then they can realize that they have been bitching over nothing!

In closing, had you simply responded with the video and the second half of your post without initially calling me stupid, this would never have spiraled into such ugliness to begin with. I would also say that if a random person on a random website calling a random group of people 'crybabies' (a group that the person himself is part of) offends you so greatly that you feel the need to start attacking that person, you may want to spend less time on the internet.

Fine, it wasn't fair to call you stupid, and I apologize. Also, I did mean lack of hypocrisy sarcastically, and I also apologize for that.

But the recoil of paintball guns isn't comparable to firearms, as I can tell you know from experience, same with myself. So in that sense I feel that the kick of a firearm isn't relevant to a discussion about the kick of a paintball gun. When someone says a paintball gun has a lot of kick, I believe most people mean a lot of kick in reference to another paintball gun. If someone were saying that in reference to a firearm of any size or caliber, I would agree completely with your initial statement.

Where I'm coming from is I believe that there is always a recoil to a paintball gun, in terms of physics there has to be, but there are a lot of factors that can minimize the felt recoil, and I believe that the reciprocating motion has a lot to do with it. It's difficult to say if it's true or not, because I think it would be hard to find a firearm that could fully cycle without firing a round, as most are operated by the expended gas or the recoil of the round. But I feel that the reciprocation of the bolt alone would be the primary factor in the very small amount of felt recoil as opposed to firing a paintball.




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