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#51 BurningPlaydoh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

I think when most people say kick they really mean smoothness, and I think less of either is preferable because the guns action is less distracting when there's less of either. Some people do like having the marker remind them they're shooting though too.

#52 Vhyrus

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

If I came off as sounding or trying to sound like a badass, that was not my intention. I certainly don't think that shooting real guns make you better or stronger than anyone else.

Annoyance is one thing, but people talk about marker recoil like they're shooting a goddamn 45. I have seen people say that certain markers have so much kick that it throws off their shot to shot accuracy. That means they are trying to claim that a paintball gun has an unmanageable level of recoil, which is total horse shit.

If 2 markers are identical but 1 has less recoil I am going to choose that one as well, but I am certainly not going to base my entire gun buying decision over recoil because, as I have argued at least three times before, NO MARKER HAS SIGNIFICANT RECOIL!

#53 dosh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:53 PM


Why do people always complain about kick? I like it when i get some feedback, vibration, kick, and a loud report from my guns. I used my brothers 2011 rail and i was unimpressed. My Crossie has good kick, nice sound, and just a bit too much vibration, but its a blast to shoot. i would understand if your gun kicked like a Glock or something, but not even a cocker or Ego kicks remotely close to a .22. So if anyone could explain why its a much complained about nature of the marker, thanks in advance


I would just like to point out that those aren't "good" things to any competitive player. If I'm paying top dollar for a marker I want to get every possible advantage from it, which means the smoothest and quietest shot possible.


Bounce.

One of the things I liked about my Angel was it had just enough kick/recoil/vibration whatever to add in a few extra bps while still being legal when refs tested it. They tried, I never got penalized for it, but I wasn't that fast. That was a fun gun for uncapped semi play

#54 dosh

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:56 PM


1. Firearms are not at all out of context when talking about recoil. It's like if you only ever drove golf carts around, you would probably think "wow, this one golf cart is WAY faster than the others.", or "This one handles much better.", but if you actually went out and drove a real car for a period of time and then came back, you would realize they were all in fact slow and there was not a great deal of difference between any of them. Certain paintball guns do have more kick than most, but none of them have enough kick to even warrant a discussion over it. Anyone who has shot a firearm will understand that.

2. A majority of the paintball community? So a majority of people complain about the kick of their guns? That's funny, I only see about 3 people on this thread doing that. I didn't realize there were only 5 paintball players. The OP even started his post with "Why do people always complain about kick?", so I guess he doesn't get it either. We must be stupid together.

3. Did you really mean lack of hypocrisy? I'm honestly not sure if you were being sarcastic or if you just screwed that entire statement up. If it is the former, please show me where I have contradicted myself.

4. 5 to 10 times heavier is what I wrote. Since 5<6.66<10, your math supports my statement. I will give you that, after thinking about it more, saying the bolt moves 'much faster' is probably a mistake on my part. However, while the net work is zero as you stated, the bolt does, in most guns, impact the body of the gun on both the forward and reverse movement, which would impart momentum into the gun, causing RECOIL. If moving 3 grams of mass supposedly causes recoil than there is no way that 15-20 grams of mass impacting the gun twice does not cause recoil.

5. Your final point is also true, but remember, we are talking about literally grams worth of weight moving around. Recoil is not something that should be debated this intensely for paintball guns. People who complain about kick need to gain some perspective on how little force they are actually feeling. One great way would be to experience a normal amount of recoil from, oh, lets say a real gun! Then they can realize that they have been bitching over nothing!

In closing, had you simply responded with the video and the second half of your post without initially calling me stupid, this would never have spiraled into such ugliness to begin with. I would also say that if a random person on a random website calling a random group of people 'crybabies' (a group that the person himself is part of) offends you so greatly that you feel the need to start attacking that person, you may want to spend less time on the internet.

I've shot a real firearm before. I shoot firearms a lot. Uncle does competitive shooting. He too prefers that his markers don't have much kick, which is why he is selling his Etek. Does that mean that I too have to act like a condescending badass and bitch about people who prefer the lack of an annoyance, like kick, just to legitimize to the online community that you are indeed a condescending badass?

It's an annoyance, and if Marker A and Marker B have the same efficiency, trigger, everything, but Marker B has less kick, then we'd bitch and moan because Marker A is now not as good as Marker B. Since we're comparing this to guns, we might as well relate this argument to boobs.
Girl A and Girl B are near identical in looks and personality. Difference is, Girl B has nicer tits. So are you going to complain that we prefer Girl B because Girl A has a flat chest? I mean, wouldn't they preform the same? It's an annoyance, and we have every right to prefer nice breasts.

That's Orange Chicken's argument.


What if the person prefers smaller breasts. You start getting into EE size and then you have viens and stretch marks coming up. Myself I think a C cup is about perfect, D just isn't that interesting.

#55 Vhyrus

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:00 PM


1. Firearms are not at all out of context when talking about recoil. It's like if you only ever drove golf carts around, you would probably think "wow, this one golf cart is WAY faster than the others.", or "This one handles much better.", but if you actually went out and drove a real car for a period of time and then came back, you would realize they were all in fact slow and there was not a great deal of difference between any of them. Certain paintball guns do have more kick than most, but none of them have enough kick to even warrant a discussion over it. Anyone who has shot a firearm will understand that.

2. A majority of the paintball community? So a majority of people complain about the kick of their guns? That's funny, I only see about 3 people on this thread doing that. I didn't realize there were only 5 paintball players. The OP even started his post with "Why do people always complain about kick?", so I guess he doesn't get it either. We must be stupid together.

3. Did you really mean lack of hypocrisy? I'm honestly not sure if you were being sarcastic or if you just screwed that entire statement up. If it is the former, please show me where I have contradicted myself.

4. 5 to 10 times heavier is what I wrote. Since 5<6.66<10, your math supports my statement. I will give you that, after thinking about it more, saying the bolt moves 'much faster' is probably a mistake on my part. However, while the net work is zero as you stated, the bolt does, in most guns, impact the body of the gun on both the forward and reverse movement, which would impart momentum into the gun, causing RECOIL. If moving 3 grams of mass supposedly causes recoil than there is no way that 15-20 grams of mass impacting the gun twice does not cause recoil.

5. Your final point is also true, but remember, we are talking about literally grams worth of weight moving around. Recoil is not something that should be debated this intensely for paintball guns. People who complain about kick need to gain some perspective on how little force they are actually feeling. One great way would be to experience a normal amount of recoil from, oh, lets say a real gun! Then they can realize that they have been bitching over nothing!

In closing, had you simply responded with the video and the second half of your post without initially calling me stupid, this would never have spiraled into such ugliness to begin with. I would also say that if a random person on a random website calling a random group of people 'crybabies' (a group that the person himself is part of) offends you so greatly that you feel the need to start attacking that person, you may want to spend less time on the internet.

Fine, it wasn't fair to call you stupid, and I apologize. Also, I did mean lack of hypocrisy sarcastically, and I also apologize for that.

But the recoil of paintball guns isn't comparable to firearms, as I can tell you know from experience, same with myself. So in that sense I feel that the kick of a firearm isn't relevant to a discussion about the kick of a paintball gun. When someone says a paintball gun has a lot of kick, I believe most people mean a lot of kick in reference to another paintball gun. If someone were saying that in reference to a firearm of any size or caliber, I would agree completely with your initial statement.

Where I'm coming from is I believe that there is always a recoil to a paintball gun, in terms of physics there has to be, but there are a lot of factors that can minimize the felt recoil, and I believe that the reciprocating motion has a lot to do with it. It's difficult to say if it's true or not, because I think it would be hard to find a firearm that could fully cycle without firing a round, as most are operated by the expended gas or the recoil of the round. But I feel that the reciprocation of the bolt alone would be the primary factor in the very small amount of felt recoil as opposed to firing a paintball.


You are right that there is always recoil in the technical sense, meaning you can feel when the gun shoots. The problem in this case with comparing a firearm to a paintball gun is that in a real gun the reciprocating slide mechanism actually lessens felt recoil by absorbing the force from the shot. Since paintball guns use an external power source you can't really look at it the same way.

As far as the bolt negating its own recoil, I don't totally buy that theory. If you are standing between two people and one shoves you in the back and then the other shoves you with the same force in the front you are still going to feel both shoves and react to them, they aren't going to cancel each other out.

If it isn't the motion of the bolt that causes recoil then it has to be pushback from the air hitting the paintball, but what is the air hitting against? the back of the gun perhaps? Since all spoolies work roughly the same then they should all have roughly the same amount of recoil if it is just air pressure. We know that isn't the case so what changes between them? G4's are said to have a lot of recoil (I own one and disagree, but whatever). The primary difference between the G4 and other spoolies is the 'dump valve' which just means you have a giant bolt hole with a giant sail rather than a small hole with a small sail. Since the surface area of the sail is larger, then more of it would hit the air rushing backward to counter the ball going forward. That would explain the difference in kick. But then where does that force go in other guns? It doesn't just disappear, something else has to take it. I am kind of just thinking out loud at this point.

#56 Jawz

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

If I came off as sounding or trying to sound like a badass, that was not my intention. I certainly don't think that shooting real guns make you better or stronger than anyone else.

Annoyance is one thing, but people talk about marker recoil like they're shooting a goddamn 45. I have seen people say that certain markers have so much kick that it throws off their shot to shot accuracy. That means they are trying to claim that a paintball gun has an unmanageable level of recoil, which is total horse shit.

If 2 markers are identical but 1 has less recoil I am going to choose that one as well, but I am certainly not going to base my entire gun buying decision over recoil because, as I have argued at least three times before, NO MARKER HAS SIGNIFICANT RECOIL!


Well ya did. Im dissapointed.
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#57 Vhyrus

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:20 PM


If I came off as sounding or trying to sound like a badass, that was not my intention. I certainly don't think that shooting real guns make you better or stronger than anyone else.

Annoyance is one thing, but people talk about marker recoil like they're shooting a goddamn 45. I have seen people say that certain markers have so much kick that it throws off their shot to shot accuracy. That means they are trying to claim that a paintball gun has an unmanageable level of recoil, which is total horse shit.

If 2 markers are identical but 1 has less recoil I am going to choose that one as well, but I am certainly not going to base my entire gun buying decision over recoil because, as I have argued at least three times before, NO MARKER HAS SIGNIFICANT RECOIL!


Well ya did. Im dissapointed.



I sowwy. :unsure: :(

#58 IPlaySoccer

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:03 AM

The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.


I'm practically underweight and I own a gun...

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#59 Vhyrus

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:45 PM


The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.


I'm practically underweight and I own a gun...


And do you think paintball guns have significant recoil?

#60 IPlaySoccer

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:09 PM



The fact is a lot of paintball players are underweight crybabies and have never fired a real gun so they think their etek kicks like a freaking Garand. Maybe its because I weigh 260 pounds or maybe its because I shoot a lot of real guns but I honestly don't think that any marker other than the spring blowbacks like tips and spyders have any kick at all. Most modern electros kick about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as a 22 magnum. Tippmanns kick about as much as a 22 magnum, which is almost nothing. It is possible to make air guns with no recoil by using clever venting and stuff like that but it really isn't necessary. I swear I am going to throat chop the next person I catch whining about the shot quality on his gun.

Also, anyone here who has access to a shooting range, go rent a 9mm or a 40 and shoot 100 rounds through that. Even better is if you can find a 308 or 12 gauge. I promise you will never even notice your markers recoil ever again.


I'm practically underweight and I own a gun...


And do you think paintball guns have significant recoil?


What recoil? Paintball guns have zero recoil, at least compared to firearms. I'm actually going to the range tomorrow.

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#61 Orange Chicken

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:30 PM

Kick in terms of paintball, not comparing it to real guns. It bothers me. I shoot real guns. But a paintballer would know the difference of kick of gun A and gun B, and, unless their a condescending badass poser, would probably prefer the one with less kick, if solely based on kick alone.

In paintball, it's just the same as comparing triggers.
If this is what the topic was about, this is how it would go:
"So why do people try to compare triggers on real guns? And why is it such a big deal?"
"Well because guns with nicer triggers are much more comfortable to shoot"
"Well truth is, most paintballers are underweight weaklings, and so the trigger is too hard. I mean, I SHOOT REAL GUNS, and I don't complain about the trigger. It's nothing at all. It's an excuse for missed shots. Because I shoot real guns. And so people shouldn't complain about triggers because it makes no difference. Because in real guns..." and so on and so on.

Do experienced players who are open minded know what makes a good trigger and what doesn't? Yeah.
Same thing with kick. And weight. and maintenance. and so many other things.

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#62 samthepainter

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:23 AM

Kick is pretty much irrelevant these days. If you go back to the 1990s and such, the blowback semi-autos (like the old spyders and piranhas) had quite a bit more kick than today's guns. Of course, still not a lot compared to a real gun, but shooting 10 bps on one of those guns is way different than on a modern gun. You would certainly notice that it was way less smooth.

Edited by samthepainter, 02 April 2013 - 10:23 AM.


#63 dosh

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:15 AM

Can't we just chalk this up as a matter of preference?

#64 Nobben #44

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

The fact that some people actually use the argument "Your paintball gun kicks too much? Go use a real weapon and stop complaining, you crybaby" makes me wanna hit myself with a hammer.

#65 Cookybiscuit

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:04 PM

You babies think paintball hurts? Try putting your head in a blender, that hurts, paintball doesn't hurt at all.

You think your car is fast? The Saturn 5 rocket is way faster.

You think your shit smells? Let me dig out this rotting corpse.

etc, etc, etc.

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#66 Akkadian_Tim

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:07 PM

Can't we just chalk this up as a matter of preference?


I think that works for me.

#67 gibbeepbroxzor

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

Cooky just raped this thread with 5 year old logic. Thank you, good sir!

#68 Nobben #44

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

You babies think paintball hurts? Try putting your head in a blender, that hurts, paintball doesn't hurt at all.

You think your car is fast? The Saturn 5 rocket is way faster.

You think your shit smells? Let me dig out this rotting corpse.

etc, etc, etc.


Dat logic. :D

#69 Pyrate Jim

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

Kick in a paintball marker is like horsepower in a bicycle.
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#70 IPlaySoccer

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:27 PM

You babies think paintball hurts? Try putting your head in a blender, that hurts, paintball doesn't hurt at all.

You think your car is fast? The Saturn 5 rocket is way faster.

You think your shit smells? Let me dig out this rotting corpse.

etc, etc, etc.

Kick in a paintball marker is like horsepower in a bicycle.


These.

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#71 tallsmallboy44

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:26 AM

Glad to see this thread is alive and kicking...

fuck yolo
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#72 elraido

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:29 AM

A VM68/PMI III have kick. Most every other paintball gun out there doesn't have that much...even spyders and tippmanns in comparison. If people are complaining that a modern day paintball gun has kick, they are an idiot.




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