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Mag Fed sp1 with DAM magazines


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#1 WilliamShattner

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:32 PM

This is about as done as it is going to get for the near future. Lots of dremel work. Only costs about $35 for parts and supplies. I used a soldering iron, a dremel and a hand drill. I needed a small sheet of sheet metal, about 4 tubes of the putty type jb weld, one screw for the mag well, a micro switch from radio shack and a can of black paint.

I forgot to mention on the video, but it is first strike ready.



#2 kingJurzy

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

1st

If there was a way you can shave the mag down so it looks "normal" I would dig it.


Have you thought of taping 2 mags together?

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#3 WilliamShattner

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

Dye does make shorter magazines. This is the 20 round, they also make 10 round which would look more normal, though they are really just two stacks of 5. I will get a couple of 10 rounders for sniping with first strike. Dye also makes the connectors to connect them. My vest won't hold clipped together magazines so until I get new pockets I will have to keep them apart.

#4 Punisher068

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:54 PM

I love it,another felow Dremmel modder!!amazing what you can do with one with a little paitence and planning
I've started using FS with my Hammer 7,Im a believer,these things are sweet,cant imagine something like this

#5 andrewthewookie

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

Could you take some pics of the inside of the mag well? How'd you go about the catch, or the means to open the "doors" on the mag?

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#6 eightcoheed

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:33 PM

I want one

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#7 Danny D

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:34 PM

Could you take some pics of the inside of the mag well? How'd you go about the catch, or the means to open the "doors" on the mag?



Doesnt look like there is a catch. Held in by friction I think. And he stated in my thread a set screw is what depresses the "doors". The latter is fairly simple and straightforward to do. Drill then thread a nut and bolt at the correct height.

#8 andrewthewookie

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:38 PM

True, a set screw would be really easy, and I guess friction would work. I'd be paranoid about not having a positive "click" when sticking a mag in though.

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#9 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:07 AM

I would've used Spyder mags, cheaper last time I checked as well as being slimmer.

But really cool mod!

#10 andrewthewookie

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:19 AM

One single Spyder 15rd FS mag is $25. A 2-pack of Dye 10rd mags is $20, and a 2-pack of Dye 20rd mags is $25.

Edited by andrewthewookie, 02 April 2013 - 12:24 AM.

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#11 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:59 AM

Huh. I didn't realize that.

#12 WilliamShattner

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

Yep I still don't have a release. The mags are held by friction. I will add one at some point but currently it is working so well as is I don't want to mess it up. If I started out trying to make a mag well with the perfect friction it would have tough, but since it happened by accident I am just using it for now. I am sure that after a bit of time things will wear out and a release will be needed though. And yep the mag ball release is just a simple screw drilled in and then ground down to the right exact spot. The dye mags have a very simple ball release, perfect for the the dremel mod maker. I had looked at few different magazines and even pre ordered some dmags, but in the end the dye mags seem to be best for this mod, and they are nice and cheap.

#13 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:25 AM

I'd totally be interested in buying this if you were to sell it, totally badass.

#14 WilliamShattner

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:45 AM

Here is a PICT of the inside. I forgot that the labels were still in there. Perhaps that is the secret to perfect friction. You can also see the breach tube is ground down a bit to match the height of the mag ball pusher. One of the many little things that need to be done.

Posted Image

Edited by WilliamShattner, 02 April 2013 - 11:47 AM.


#15 WilliamShattner

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:24 PM

I'd totally be interested in buying this if you were to sell it, totally badass.


I wouldn't sell it because I am afraid it would break. :-)

Try making your own, you could probably do a better job than me. I am really not that good at this type of thing.

Edit- I do wish gog or empire would make something like this though in the $300 range.

Edited by WilliamShattner, 02 April 2013 - 12:26 PM.


#16 Panda's Revenge

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:28 PM

I might do a thing with the Tippmann 98 Mag kit and ebolt.
Only problem is that the ebolt would void any stocks to put on the gun.

#17 WilliamShattner

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

I had never looked into the ebolt before. Be sure to post up what ever you create.

#18 moon

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

Not realy a Millsim guy but this sweet

Props to you
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#19 abateman1972

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:50 AM

thats amazing, how many hours, roughly, did it take??

#20 blackrain

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:49 AM

Excellent work. Keep it up.

Later,
Blackrain :)

#21 WilliamShattner

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

I am working on a a bit of a how to video which will include some more close up pictures.

To answer a few questions, it took about 15 hours of work and about 10 hours at least of planning (mostly in my head as I was driving around for work). It could probably do it again in about 10 hours if everything went right the first time.

There are probably better ways to hold it in place than jb,weld, I just don't have any great skills to use anything else. It would be better I suppose to use a lot more inserts and screw things together (for maintenance) but I am not that good. My philosophy was make it work and make it durable, I can remove and maintain the bolt and regulator, but sadly that is all I can really take apart without cutting into the jb weld. Again a more skilled craftsman would have done a better job.

I can't do a photo of the microswitch sadly because it is jb welded together. I just bought a cheap microswitch from radio shack and soldered wire leads (there are 3) to the bottom of the board. I talk in the video how I would have done it slightly differently now, but the results are still about the same. I then just put the radio shack switch in about the place that the normal switch would be and once again jb welded it into place. Someday if that switch goes bad it will be a huge pain to replace, but I am hoping it is good for many thousand clicks.

My problem with dmags (as you note) is that they fire from the front stack unlike dam mags which fire from the rear stack, meaning your breach will have to be further forward, otherwise dmags should work fine. If you shoot only paintballs you could reverse dmags to fire from the rear stack, BUT if you intend to shoot first strike (and you should) then you cannot reverse dmags otherwise your FS rounds will go down your barrel backwards. If you are shooting first strike I would recommend just using dam magazines. They don't cost much more and they have a very easy release switch. I still do not believe that DYE sells the mag well, but making a mag well only took about 30 minutes.

To answer the an unasked questions, I have played with this now for 6 days and it does work like a charm, a fact that still amazes me. There is no fun in paintball quite like shooting someone with a gun that you made.

#22 ecoballer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

So can I just drill or dremel a hole for the balls to go in to the breech without turning the breech or modding the gun? and what material is the outer shell made from I had one a while ago but I don't remember.



#23 DBeck

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:09 AM

this is so cool!

#24 ecoballer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

what kind of asa was used for the tank and how was it attached to the regulator?

#25 WilliamShattner

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:15 PM

Still working on the video where I answer some questions. Correct the outer body, it is very tough plastic. I am amazed at how tough it is and wish I had the ability to mold with it.
Scougar is right on about the breech. I wish the original breech hole on the top was further forward, but it almost right over the trigger. Also note that on the bottom side, the circuit board runs right up to where you would need to drill a new hole on the bottom.

#26 WilliamShattner

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:34 PM

Also I just cut down the duck bill of an old automag regulator, covered it in jb weld and slid it in. I then put an insert (salvaged from he sp1) into the jb weld so I can screw it in in the original hole where the back of the trigger frame attaches to the body of the gun.

#27 ecoballer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:40 PM

Cool I actually have a few laying around also how does the regulator hoses go into the gun

#28 WilliamShattner

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:43 AM

The bottom of the regulator is connected with a hard line screw to the asa. It is this, but you might want to double check that this is the right diameter: http://www.grainger....209?Pid=search.

The hose from the regulator to the board is by far the least elegant part of the build. It just connects to the board through a small hole in the cover I made for the board. Lame, but I couldn't think of any other way to do it.

#29 ecoballer

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Oh and what size tubing is that?

#30 A&MBaller

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:45 PM

Cool. I'm not much of a mil-sim or mag fed guy, but I wouldn't mind using this!

#31 WilliamShattner

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:09 AM

After a bit of delay I finally have the how to up on you tube. It is not a great how to, but I at least take a bit of time to explain most things that are needed for the project.




#32 WilliamShattner

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:03 PM

Yeah there are so many little things that I did that I often forget to mention one or two. I did move the frame back, but probably just a bit further than I needed to. Also I did make a bit of a spacer and actually lowered the grip frame by maybe a quarter inch away from the body. I didn't mention it because looking back with my build and the board on top it wasn't actually necessary.

I also spent a lot of time thinking about ways to keep the board in its normal place. I only briefly thought of tapping new holes because I don't have a huge amount of confidence in my abilities. Something that I never tested was how far forward the bolt travels. If it is the case that the bolt clears the top hole by a good margin when in the forward position, a new hole created on the bottom of the breach wouldn't have to be directly below the top hole. The new hole could be drilled a bit forward. I just assumed that it should be in the same position, but it would be worth testing if the hole could be moved up. That would make it easier to drill a hole on the bottom anyway. Perhaps the trigger might not need to be moved back if the hole could be a far enough forward. I will see if I can measure it while you wait for your sp1 to arrive.

edit: After measuring, it looks like a hole on the bottom could move forward about an 1/8 inch. I don't know if that would be enough though. Worth taking a look at though.



The biggest reason I used so much jb weld was because I was either unable to or to lazy to create brackets and use enough inserts. There is really no reason I could not have screwed things together other than that jb was easiest and seemed less likely to fall apart. If you are good at fabricating brackets you will be in good shape. Even the mag well I made could have been screwed on, but again it was just easier to jb weld it.

Edited by WilliamShattner, 06 June 2013 - 02:21 PM.


#33 WilliamShattner

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:56 PM

Nice. I will call it a charging handle.
Patience is always a big thing for me. Part of why I did things the way I did at the end (with jb weld) was because I was playing that same day and needed it to work since I was lending my other guns to other people that day.

#34 Punisher068

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:21 PM

Think you did an awesome job for your prototype,got it to work the 1st time,looks cool too.
Wait till you do your next one,Im sure you learned alot the 1st time,2nd time it will be even easier now that you know what works and what could be better.Now you also have a working template for measurements
Congrats on a cool project

#35 WilliamShattner

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

My SP1 for modding arrived today. Immediately stripped it down and measuring up with bit of cardboard, tape and pencil everywhere lol. I have a cunning plan for the mag well "IF" the dimensions for the Magazines are as I think they are!

...

BTW.. this is a useful link: http://www.warpig.co...parts/sp8_side/ This is kinda what I am thinking of doing in order to keep the board in the same location. I need to find out what the air fittings are though so I can extend the airlines safely.


Can't wait to see the mag well. What mags are you using, dmags? Thanks for the link as well, I wish I would have done a better write up.

#36 WilliamShattner

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:12 AM

Having a magazine in hand is nice. I moved my trigger frame back further than needed because I cut it before I had a magazine in hand.

I never thought of removing the solenoid and leaving the board connected to the trigger frame. Not a bad idea at all. Now I am wishing that I had thought of that. I do think that without the board, there would be enough room to drill a new ball hole on the bottom, particularly if the new ball hole is just a tiny bit forward. With the board on the trigger frame, no need for a new switch and since it is connected to the solenoid with a wire the trigger could be moved back as far as necessary. Darn, that actually should work.

#37 Punisher068

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:45 PM

If youre looking for a way to relocate you reg\inlet lines this may help.
I did this on my Ion\Relay reg mod.You can plug the inlet(reg) port on the soleniod with a setscrew then tee off the back fitting or airlines with either a Lucky dual barbed fitting(in pic) or a T fitting if you need to relocate reg further rearward.I did this with a Ion but the layout of the airlines on SP1s is similar,the major exception being the board and noid are seperate.this pic shows the airlines with DW|yodas mech kit,electro version is basicly the same
Ive run this for several months now,its actually superior to many other regs Ive tried.OP is 110-130 psi@280-300fps
Deathwish DW or Yoda on PBNation or M Carter Brown should have either fittting for you,they also have a barbed T banjo that could work,heres a link for his FS thread,Lucky and T fitting not pictured but Im sure he has backstock of both
http://www.mcarterbr...d-sold-now.html
It was rumored that Dye would sell the magwell as a seperate piece but Ive yet to confirm it,wanting to make a boxfed&magfed bullpup Ion for my next project

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by Punisher068, 11 June 2013 - 02:29 PM.


#38 WilliamShattner

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

Awesome punisher. If I do another build I think that I will go this route with the mech kit to have a different flavor. Between this and scougar's ideas I am getting an itch to do another build.

I was told by Dye in March that the magwell would be for sale in April but have not contacted them since. It isn't listed as a replacemement part on the website yet.

#39 WilliamShattner

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:19 PM

Totally forgot about the ball detents.&nbsp; Nice call.&nbsp; Drilling new ones could be done, but they would have to be at an offset location around the breech I would imagine.&nbsp; It is a risky move for sure.<br>




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