Jump to content


Photo

Bob Long Spool Insight NG


  • Please log in to reply
179 replies to this topic

#151 Orange Chicken

Orange Chicken

    TechPB's Most Annoying member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,589 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, Arizona

Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:48 PM

So the poppet valve engine is compatible with the Insight correct?

OrangeChicken_zpsbeae94b0.jpg?t=13691803

 


#152 andrewthewookie

andrewthewookie

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarks :(

  • Chat Coordinator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,863 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Your bedroom


Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:53 PM

That is incorrect. The Insight is its own gun, with its own engine, and cannot use any others.

RebelSignaturejedicode-1.jpg
Hybrid SFT • 09 Impulse • HB REV-i • Macroless Mech Ion
Rotor • Grillz • PE 70/45 • Feedback - 23/0/0

Fear is the mind-killer


#153 Schuppert3

Schuppert3

    Respect the BBN

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,012 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington Kentucky

Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:58 PM

Love to be able to shoot both the v-com and the BLING (Bob Long Insight NG). From what im hearing the vcom is smoother but not as efficient and fast so I guess we will see.

And no I did not make up the BLING thing haha but it does sound 100x better than bob long insight NG

Edited by Schuppert3, 20 April 2013 - 11:59 PM.

yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

Feedback +5/-0
Mod App


#154 Orange Chicken

Orange Chicken

    TechPB's Most Annoying member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,589 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tucson, Arizona

Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:09 AM

So I should pick up a VCOM if I wanted to have both functions, then? Is the spool engine the same, in all technical aspects, for the BLING(gorgeous name) and the VCOM?

OrangeChicken_zpsbeae94b0.jpg?t=13691803

 


#155 andrewthewookie

andrewthewookie

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarks :(

  • Chat Coordinator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,863 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Your bedroom


Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:15 AM

No, like I said earlier, the Insight is its own gun. The spool in the VCOM is different from the spool in the Insight.

RebelSignaturejedicode-1.jpg
Hybrid SFT • 09 Impulse • HB REV-i • Macroless Mech Ion
Rotor • Grillz • PE 70/45 • Feedback - 23/0/0

Fear is the mind-killer


#156 LegionPB

LegionPB

    1st Place Verbandsliga!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 323 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ramstein, Germany


Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:05 AM

So besides the milling controversy and the bolt being its own individualized bolt; does the BLING shoot well? Is it comparable to the NT as far as how it shoots? I think MOST of us are conceded about that since it is a very light marker with that super fast bolt… maybe… :P. Not saying the NT doesn't shoot well because I have shot some decent NT's, but it's not really my cup of tea.

Kaiserslautern Legion -Captain- All American Team Ballin in Germany! (Members from the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Army, and the DoD)
Sponsored by: DXS, Oringmonkey, MAXS, HK Army
-DPL: Deutschland Paintball League & European Millenium Series-
Luxe Mob! (Reverse Poison Luxe 2.0 & Dust Black/Gloss Black 1.0 w/ ALL 2.0 Up's)
If You Haven't Already Please Like My Teams Facebook Page! http://www.facebook....tballKL?fref=ts


#157 Schuppert3

Schuppert3

    Respect the BBN

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,012 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington Kentucky

Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:29 AM

So besides the milling controversy and the bolt being its own individualized bolt; does the BLING shoot well? Is it comparable to the NT as far as how it shoots? I think MOST of us are conceded about that since it is a very light marker with that super fast bolt… maybe… :P. Not saying the NT doesn't shoot well because I have shot some decent NT's, but it's not really my cup of tea.


The people who shot it at HB never compared it to the NT. But who knows. Just cause it shoots fast doesn't mean its the NT.

yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

Feedback +5/-0
Mod App


#158 OEFVeteran

OEFVeteran

    TechPB's Resident Angry Veteran

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,031 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwood, Mass

Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:50 AM

from the few people i've talked to that have shot it they tend to compare it to a geo2 or geo3 tuned for speed, where as the vcom spool has a more luxe like feel to it...
Shocktech Aftershock SFL team cocker, serial number 1
Mini Orracle pump, Eclipse internals, Sanchez Machine pump kit and grip frame
Mossberg 500 ZMB

OSG Paintball biggest and best field in NH... show them some love

"I wish I had 2000 feet. So i could shove 500 of them up each of your asses!!!!" Red Foreman

#159 Schuppert3

Schuppert3

    Respect the BBN

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,012 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington Kentucky

Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:44 PM


yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

Feedback +5/-0
Mod App


#160 Jawz

Jawz

    Boss Ass Bitch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,690 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Lake Ontario

Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:38 PM



the difference between a marq and a DM is that a Marq is a platform gun... much like the Luxe... generation to generation the guns work on teh same basic engine, but small changes are made to improve them... and, all pgrades are retroactive to previous generations... i can go buy a marq 6 and slap a supercharged PE engine in it and it will shoot just like the victory, minus the macroless design...

and, above all else... bobs stuff is still Made in America...


MERICA!!!!!!! FUCK YA!!!!!


shut up, canadian... you arent even people

Says the ginger Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
109.gif

 

 

 


#161 BurningPlaydoh

BurningPlaydoh

    Blow-dough'ed

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,787 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:42 PM

So I should pick up a VCOM if I wanted to have both functions, then? Is the spool engine the same, in all technical aspects, for the BLING(gorgeous name) and the VCOM?

No, the V-COM is most comparable to a DM in operation and a Luxe in feel. The Insight is a totally new bolt drive design and is most comparable in feel to a Geo 2/3 or well tuned NT.

Edited by BurningPlaydoh, 21 April 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#162 unfated33

unfated33

    Punk Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 986 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:01 AM

Is the dump chamber air being used to shut the bolt completely, or just assist in the initial backwards movement? Because the Eigenbolt and apparently this are not blowbacks.

And they are most definitely "traditional" spool valve markers. Whether they use a reset assist or not is irrelevant, that's just dynamics of the spool, not some new classification.

It's taken me a long time to get back to this question, but as far as I can tell from the latest BLAST video, the following mechanism for firing occurs. I still have a lot of questions, and will note them where appropriate.

1. The engine starts open with a ball entering the breach. The front chamber has air at the regulated pressure (from now on I'll just say pressure, as all pressure to the marker, solenoid, and chambers is the same pressure). The tail chamber has pressure, and the tail is sitting snug in the back of the marker.
2. The tail chamber is evacuated to behind the bolt tail. As the tail starts to move off its snug resting position, the solenoid adds pressure to the bolt tail and moves the bolt forward. When the bolt has moved slightly into the forward chamber, the geometry of the bolt closes off the tail chamber sealing it from the front chamber. (This seems to me like its creating an "air brake" for the remaining air in the tail chamber now sealed in place).
3. The bolt has now opened at the front to release pressure against the paintball, firing the ball. It also starts to push the bolt backwards. It does not appear that the solenoid ever clicks on to push the bolt backwards, but even it if did it would still be using the same pressure that is in the front chamber. (The solenoid is for pushing the bolt forward and evacuating the tail chamber only? That's why I say jokingly that its a blow back).
4. The bolt returns to start and awaits the evacuation of the tail chamber to start the next firing sequence.

Help me out, am I missing some steps?
Happiness... is a warm mechanical marker

Mechanical Marker Fan: Azodin Kaos-D / Tippmann Crossover

#163 andrewthewookie

andrewthewookie

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarks :(

  • Chat Coordinator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,863 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Your bedroom


Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

1. The engine starts open with a ball entering the breach. The front chamber has air at the regulated pressure (from now on I'll just say pressure, as all pressure to the marker, solenoid, and chambers is the same pressure). The tail chamber has pressure, and the tail is sitting snug in the back of the marker.


2. The tail chamber is evacuated to behind the bolt tail. As the tail starts to move off its snug resting position, the solenoid adds pressure to the bolt tail and moves the bolt forward. When the bolt has moved slightly into the forward chamber, the geometry of the bolt closes off the tail chamber sealing it from the front chamber. (This seems to me like its creating an "air brake" for the remaining air in the tail chamber now sealed in place).
The "ram" portion of the engine is always separate from the dump chamber. The ram closes off the chamber from the HPR supply, but the ram and dump chamber are on separate air paths. The solenoid is a 3-way, normally open valve, so when it closes, it shuts off the supply to the front of the ram, and directs what was in front of the ram to behind it. After it travels forward 3/16", there are exhaust holes that the air behind the ram can now exhaust (which is why the ram has such a huge tail with o-rings spaced so far apart, so those exhaust holes aren't open when the ram is fully back), so at this point it seems like the ram is under no pressure, and the dynamics of the dump chamber drive the bolt the rest of the way, as a blow-forward.

3. The bolt has now opened at the front to release pressure against the paintball, firing the ball. It also starts to push the bolt backwards. It does not appear that the solenoid ever clicks on to push the bolt backwards, but even it if did it would still be using the same pressure that is in the front chamber. (The solenoid is for pushing the bolt forward and evacuating the tail chamber only? That's why I say jokingly that its a blow back).
It also turns out that most of us were wrong, and what we thought was a shuttle valve doesn't actually move, so the ram can only be brought back by the solenoid. The reason he is able to have such quick responsiveness when closing the bolt is because of the exhaust holes behind the ram. The combination of a direct acting solenoid and those exhaust holes means it's a very quick solenoid pushing the ram back against no latent air pressure behind the ram, which is why it can return so quickly.

4. The bolt returns to start and awaits the evacuation of the tail chamber to start the next firing sequence.
So it turns out to be a forward assist blow-forward, and cycles like pretty much any other blow-forward by waiting for the solenoid, without the detraction of having to fight against the dump chamber nearly as much.

So basically, it uses no re-cock assist at all, just a QEV system at the back of the cycle to give it that speed boost backward

Edited by andrewthewookie, 23 April 2013 - 12:05 PM.

RebelSignaturejedicode-1.jpg
Hybrid SFT • 09 Impulse • HB REV-i • Macroless Mech Ion
Rotor • Grillz • PE 70/45 • Feedback - 23/0/0

Fear is the mind-killer


#164 unfated33

unfated33

    Punk Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 986 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:03 PM

Yes, I knew I was forgetting an important step! As the bolt is travelling forward it exhausts the air in the tail when it reaches the exhaust hole in the travel. 3/16" seems like such a short path for that to happen, but having seen other people do the calculations on pressure it appears to work.

So it turns out to be a forward assist blow-forward, and cycles like pretty much any other blow-forward by waiting for the solenoid, without the detraction of having to fight against the dump chamber nearly as much.


It's a neat concept - I'd really like to see how players respond to using it.
Happiness... is a warm mechanical marker

Mechanical Marker Fan: Azodin Kaos-D / Tippmann Crossover

#165 Schuppert3

Schuppert3

    Respect the BBN

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,012 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington Kentucky

Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:06 PM


yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

Feedback +5/-0
Mod App


#166 WiscoBaller

WiscoBaller

    Master Member

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,655 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:11 PM

Posted Image

Om Nom Nom (:

University of Wisconsin Whitewater Paintball Club
Sponsored by KEE, H2 Paintball, Empire
The Hooligans Paintball Team
Bob Long Victory Ripper Dye Rotor Dye Throttle 70/4500
Bob Long Ripper FST


#167 etekgirl27

etekgirl27

    Uber Member

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,945 posts
  • Gender:Female


Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

yours? How is it, I'm really torn between this and the lv1

My Feedback

Gearbag Sale


#168 WiscoBaller

WiscoBaller

    Master Member

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,655 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:28 PM

I love it, I traded in my geo3 for it and I will not look back, it shoots like an NT sound, a little kick, but they are lightening the bolt to help with that. I will probably keep this and my axe for a good length of time so I stop gun whoring.

University of Wisconsin Whitewater Paintball Club
Sponsored by KEE, H2 Paintball, Empire
The Hooligans Paintball Team
Bob Long Victory Ripper Dye Rotor Dye Throttle 70/4500
Bob Long Ripper FST


#169 Garribean

Garribean

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 890 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:15 PM


So 10 pods off a 45/45, but only 13 off a 77/45? Huh?

#170 andrewthewookie

andrewthewookie

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarks :(

  • Chat Coordinator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,863 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Your bedroom


Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

Bob's shop us up at higher altitude, and he was using 8ms dwell. That video looks to be at a much lower altitude, and they were using 11ms dwell.

Edited by andrewthewookie, 24 April 2013 - 04:21 PM.

RebelSignaturejedicode-1.jpg
Hybrid SFT • 09 Impulse • HB REV-i • Macroless Mech Ion
Rotor • Grillz • PE 70/45 • Feedback - 23/0/0

Fear is the mind-killer


#171 WiscoBaller

WiscoBaller

    Master Member

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,655 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

11 or 12? Mine came from the factory with 12 dwell

University of Wisconsin Whitewater Paintball Club
Sponsored by KEE, H2 Paintball, Empire
The Hooligans Paintball Team
Bob Long Victory Ripper Dye Rotor Dye Throttle 70/4500
Bob Long Ripper FST


#172 andrewthewookie

andrewthewookie

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarks :(

  • Chat Coordinator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,863 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Your bedroom


Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:32 PM

In the video they say it's 11ms as well as the text annotation that says 11ms.

RebelSignaturejedicode-1.jpg
Hybrid SFT • 09 Impulse • HB REV-i • Macroless Mech Ion
Rotor • Grillz • PE 70/45 • Feedback - 23/0/0

Fear is the mind-killer


#173 Schuppert3

Schuppert3

    Respect the BBN

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,012 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington Kentucky

Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:45 PM

Everybody knows bobs tests are gonna be higher than normal. But if I hear anybody complain about 13 pods from a spool im jumping through internet land out your screen and strangling you.

yea I kept seeing banner ads for asianbeaver.com until I cleared my cache

Feedback +5/-0
Mod App


#174 Garribean

Garribean

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 890 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

Bob's shop us up at higher altitude, and he was using 8ms dwell. That video looks to be at a much lower altitude, and they were using 11ms dwell.

But still, only 3 extra pods for an extra 30 cubic inches of air.

#175 andrewthewookie

andrewthewookie

    Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarks :(

  • Chat Coordinator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,863 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Your bedroom


Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

It's been theorized that this gun is highly dwell sensitive, so it is within the realm of possibility that the two factors of altitude and dwell make all the difference.

RebelSignaturejedicode-1.jpg
Hybrid SFT • 09 Impulse • HB REV-i • Macroless Mech Ion
Rotor • Grillz • PE 70/45 • Feedback - 23/0/0

Fear is the mind-killer


#176 WiscoBaller

WiscoBaller

    Master Member

  • TechPB Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,655 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

Regardless, I was shooting a hopper and 2 pods on a 70/45 and was filling to 4500 ish, walking off with a touch under 4k (3800ish) I was mucho happy (:

University of Wisconsin Whitewater Paintball Club
Sponsored by KEE, H2 Paintball, Empire
The Hooligans Paintball Team
Bob Long Victory Ripper Dye Rotor Dye Throttle 70/4500
Bob Long Ripper FST


#177 silvere108

silvere108

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 234 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Wasilla, AK

Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:24 AM

Seems like a very stable shooting platform, very little barrel movement even shooting psp speeds one handed.
Thread Killer!

#178 Pakistani

Pakistani

    www.AliZaman.com

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,237 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Richmond, VA

Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:57 PM

Seems like a very stable shooting platform, very little barrel movement even shooting psp speeds one handed.


put a half a case through my friends. not the smoothest gun in the world. feels similar to a mini.

KPS Paintball • VCU Rams • Richmond Rage

•••••••

If you need help with a Dye gun, PM me!


#179 TECHDP=)

TECHDP=)

    I'm never online anymore.

  • Players Club
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,876 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CALIFORNIA

Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

I think it's ugly.
But I want it so bad because of the efficiency.

#180 ChemistFunk215

ChemistFunk215

    Lep is A Ball

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 755 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philadelphia, Pa.

Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

It looks a lot better in person and feels really good in the hands

Misfit Toys/Misfit Militia
I shoot PaintBullets for Ballers Inc., Valken, CP, Bob Long, TechPB, Deviant, LVP South, DXS, G.I.Sportz, TopGun, PlayGround, R7, FixMyGat
XBL Gamertag: ChemistFunk
My Feedback





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users