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Tuning a Nelson more specifically a Phantom


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#1 1shot

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:36 PM

I've read a lot on other forums on this topic and I'm beginning to wounder if tuning a Nelson is worth it. It seams that once you change from stock setup you are forcrd to constantly be playing with springs as the weather changes day to day.

That being said I live in Minnisota and the weather quickly changes a lot in the spring and fall. My answer had been to just run a 13cc. I would rather run 12 grams. If you can't tell I think I've read so many conflicting ideas I don't know what to believe.

I have a VSC Phantom and a Micro Phantom with a CO2 dropout built into the valve. Both I have no real complaints about. If I can improve preformence I'm interested. Consistency has always been good enough for practical perposes. I would like to improve cold weather performance/ improved shot count in 35 to 40 degree weather. I don't really know if that's practical with a 12 gram?

I brought the question here hoping to get a more educated ansewer. Like I sad the other forums had some very conflicting ideas.

Thanks for your time.

#2 1shot

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

Can/has anyone aplied things like Boils Law and Poisuille's Equation to truly get the most out of a Nelson? Or is tunning all tryal and error? I feel like I'm seeing alot of tryal and error.

#3 drg

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:30 AM

Mathematically modeling a paintball gun's operation is not really a fruitful way to tune. Trial and error is the way to go, but of course you ask for experience to narrow things down. If you are going to dismiss those experiences, then you are making things harder for no reason.
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#4 cockerpunk

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:56 AM

a regulator and sweet spotting the valve is probably the best way to actually tune a nelson.
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#5 1shot

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:25 PM

What really is sweat spotting? My understanding is the point when the dwell is ideal and the gun shoots most consistently. But what is happening/what is ideal dwell? How fast can/do we need to fill/empty the chamber behind the valve? Is the goal to empty the whole thing, do we even want to. I'm tempted to try to crunch some numbers to see just how fast you can fill and empty one of my Phantom valves. But I'm a respiratory therapist not a physisyst or engeneer. I have knowledge of many gas laws but very rusty on math. Still might be a fun exercise, never know might learn something. Probably easyest to start with compressed air then CO2

#6 1shot

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:57 PM

Mathematically modeling a paintball gun's operation is not really a fruitful way to tune. Trial and error is the way to go, but of course you ask for experience to narrow things down. If you are going to dismiss those experiences, then you are making things harder for no reason.


I think this is sound advice. I'm having trouble sorting between the guys that claim to know and the ones that actually do.

The more I think about it the more variables I come up with. It's much more complex that it first appears. Things that are going to be very different day to day. Barometric pressure, temperature, water vapor dry vs saturated both in the atmosphere and in the tank, out put flow from a regulator just to name a few. Some matter more then others. You could just assume some constants but they won't be when you go to apply it. Think I'm getting in over my head.

My initial thought was to determine how fast CO2 would leave the cartridge. Then determine the max flow that can pass through the small hole to the chamber behind the valve. Next measure the volume of that chamber. At that point it's simple to know how fast it fills. Then look at how fast we can empty it. My thought being that with that knowledge you may be able to start to figure out ideal dwell time. But I'm not sure it's any ware near that simple. I have already neglected several parts that the gas has to go through just to get to the hole leading to the chamber behind the valve.

Edited by 1shot, 18 April 2013 - 07:10 PM.


#7 drg

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

It is true that tuning unregged co2 is somewhat of a black art. To address your previous question, sweetspotting is the input pressure point at which the gun fires most efficiently for a given spring setup. There may be more factors involved than just the pressure's effect on dwell. It is generally accepted that, at least for regulated setups, you don't want to empty the whole firing chamber. At a certain point pressure is too low/dwell has been too long to affect the velocity, so that gas might as well be conserved.
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