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#1 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:13 PM

hi so i was at the local feild last weekend when i went to chrono my autococker (2k3 autocoker lightning) and the fps droped down to 180 so out of my instinct i went bak to the table took of my tank and back in the ivg about 25th of a turn and aired it back up and went to the shooting range to chrono it but now there isnt enough air going through the marker so it would shoot. Please help me with this i can also post a video if that will help

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#2 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

I don't suppose your tank was empty?

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#3 dosh

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:32 PM

Could be a broken main spring, regulator stuck, blockage, bolt in upside down...

#4 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:33 PM

Haha no it was a full 4500 fill, there was airflow but not enough for it to shoot paint

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#5 andrewthewookie

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

Have you taken your bolt out recently? Is it possible it's in upside down?

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#6 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:47 PM

No I did take it out and make sure it was in the right way because I have been known to do stupid things like that

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#7 riddler

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:28 PM

What's your HPR outputting?

#8 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:09 PM

What's your HPR outputting?

I have no idea could that be it?

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#9 SilentButDeadly

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:42 AM


What's your HPR outputting?

I have no idea could that be it?

Could be. When was the last time it was shooting correctly (280-300fps)?

You said your FPS "dropped down" to 180. Does that mean you were shooting around 280 before, and then the velocity started dropping for no reason? Or was it shooting at 180fps when you first aired it up at the beginning of the day?

It sounds kind of like your tank wasn't open all the way. If you have a standard ASA make sure your tank is screwed in all the way. If you have an on/off ASA, make sure the knob that opens the tank valve is screwed in enough.

Also, turning the IVG 1/25th of a turn is not going to affect your velocity very much.
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#10 dosh

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:39 AM

I think he might of meant 1/4.

#11 OEFVeteran

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:02 AM

there could be many reasons for this drop in FPS... your ram oring is damaged and isnt fully cycling the bolt, which means that the hammer is dropping before the air path in the bolt and body line up... if you can ger into your ram (if its not rebuildable, then you are SOL and will need to replace it) check the oring... if you cant, put a drop of oil on the ram arm and manually cycles it back and forth, should help ti to seal...

second, it could be your LPR... too low a pressure and your ram/bolt wont cycle right, and you wont reach your fields chrono limit....

HPR, not enough air flow, either turned up to high or to low... this will choke out the gun, and it wont reach field speeds....

IVG/hammer sping... when i set my IVG i start from flush, and turn it in a full 2 turns... from there i adjust my HPR to ~290FPS... i then fine tune the IVG and HPR will i am leveled out at what ever my fields chrono speed is, we use 270-280...

i cant remember on the lightening... but if it uses the dye UL style bolt, or twist lock bolt, it should only go in one way... if not, yeah, check your bolt...


there are 20 different trouble shooting steps we could walk you though here, but unless you really know your cocker inside and out, there is just too much that could be wrong to accurately help you... my best advice, find someone local that know cockers, and has experience working on them and tuning them, and ask them to take a look at it
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#12 riddler

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:11 AM

there could be many reasons for this drop in FPS... your ram oring is damaged and isnt fully cycling the bolt, which means that the hammer is dropping before the air path in the bolt and body line up... if you can ger into your ram (if its not rebuildable, then you are SOL and will need to replace it) check the oring... if you cant, put a drop of oil on the ram arm and manually cycles it back and forth, should help ti to seal...

second, it could be your LPR... too low a pressure and your ram/bolt wont cycle right, and you wont reach your fields chrono limit....

HPR, not enough air flow, either turned up to high or to low... this will choke out the gun, and it wont reach field speeds....

IVG/hammer sping... when i set my IVG i start from flush, and turn it in a full 2 turns... from there i adjust my HPR to ~290FPS... i then fine tune the IVG and HPR will i am leveled out at what ever my fields chrono speed is, we use 270-280...

i cant remember on the lightening... but if it uses the dye UL style bolt, or twist lock bolt, it should only go in one way... if not, yeah, check your bolt...


there are 20 different trouble shooting steps we could walk you though here, but unless you really know your cocker inside and out, there is just too much that could be wrong to accurately help you... my best advice, find someone local that know cockers, and has experience working on them and tuning them, and ask them to take a look at it


What? The LPR and ram have absolutely nothing - zero - to do with the marker's ability to reach velocity.

While, yes, there are many things to potentially troubleshoot with regard to his FPS woes, neither of those is one of them.

As I said above, start with the HPR. What's it putting out?

Edited by riddler, 19 April 2013 - 11:11 AM.


#13 OEFVeteran

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

Depending on how the marker is timed, yes, a problem with the lpr will affect the velocity... I had an issue with one of my dc2's where the ram oring was damaged, and as a result the hammer would drop before the bolt was fully forward... causing the cocking rod to contact the back block and ride the back block forward, thus lessening the impact on the valve stem... I see the issue more commkn with autotriggers on pumps, where the hammer drops before the pump handle is fully forward... its not commin, but commin enough... anyway, I replaced the ram oring on the dc2, fixed the velocity issues. As for the lpr, if its too low, the bolt wint cycle fast enough and a similar thinf happens where the cocking rod impacts the back block... could also be a simple timing issue witht the 3 way if its mech.
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#14 riddler

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:33 PM

Depending on how the marker is timed, yes, a problem with the lpr will affect the velocity... I had an issue with one of my dc2's where the ram oring was damaged, and as a result the hammer would drop before the bolt was fully forward... causing the cocking rod to contact the back block and ride the back block forward, thus lessening the impact on the valve stem... I see the issue more commkn with autotriggers on pumps, where the hammer drops before the pump handle is fully forward... its not commin, but commin enough... anyway, I replaced the ram oring on the dc2, fixed the velocity issues. As for the lpr, if its too low, the bolt wint cycle fast enough and a similar thinf happens where the cocking rod impacts the back block... could also be a simple timing issue witht the 3 way if its mech.


Riiiiiiight. In your experience, exactly how often does one shoot full-tilt over the chrono at the beginning of the day when performing a simple FPS check? Posted Image

#15 OEFVeteran

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

i always make sure i shoot off a strong of 10 or so balls before i chrono to make sure everything is moving the way it should...

if the HPR and IVG are not the cause of the low velocity, then its a timing issue... if the timing hasnt been messed with, then instead of retiming the whole gun, i start with the ram and LPR... its been my experience, teching and timing cockers for the better part of the last decade, that if one part of a cocker isnt working fully, then the over all performance of the gun drops... yes,the ram and LPR dont directly affect the velocity that the paint is shot at, but, if the LPR or ram has an issue, that could be the reason that he is not making field limits... its a long shot, given that he claims 180FPS, that it is teh ram or LPR, but, since ive had similar issues with both mech and e-cockers in the past, i figured i would mention it

thank you for discrediting everything i said though, i guess 10 years of shooting primarily cockers has taught me nothing about them Posted Image
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#16 riddler

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

With your 10 years of shooting 'cockers, then, you should have considered that there's a world of difference between "there isnt enough air going through the marker so it would shoot" (words of the OP) and the necessity to suggest solutions for shootdown issues.


Also, how's that #1 SFL? lolz.

#17 OEFVeteran

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:56 PM

well, since it was alrady siggested that the issue might be (and what i believe to be) with the HPR, i offered an alternitive (based on my personal trouble shooting steps) in the event that its not an HPR issues... is it unlikely that its a pneumatics probelm? sure it is,but, better to be safe then sorry if it turns out the HPR is not the culprit.

and the SFL is fine, with its shooped off serial number and all... which, if you remember, i missinformed that it was the first in a series made for a team, not "#1 SFL" as you infer...
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#18 dosh

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 02:09 PM

With your 10 years of shooting 'cockers, then, you should have considered that there's a world of difference between "there isnt enough air going through the marker so it would shoot" (words of the OP) and the necessity to suggest solutions for shootdown issues.


Also, how's that #1 SFL? lolz.


From another guy who has been shooting cockers for the last ten years, when I first read his post I originally had same thoughts as you. But I kept quiet to see his response and reasoning. What he's saying is pretty sound.

#19 riddler

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 02:33 PM

From another guy who has been shooting cockers for the last ten years, when I first read his post I originally had same thoughts as you. But I kept quiet to see his response and reasoning. What he's saying is pretty sound.


There's still miles of difference between "my gun isn't getting air" and "i'm having shootdown at rapid fire"

#20 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

Depending on how the marker is timed, yes, a problem with the lpr will affect the velocity... I had an issue with one of my dc2's where the ram oring was damaged, and as a result the hammer would drop before the bolt was fully forward... causing the cocking rod to contact the back block and ride the back block forward, thus lessening the impact on the valve stem... I see the issue more commkn with autotriggers on pumps, where the hammer drops before the pump handle is fully forward... its not commin, but commin enough... anyway, I replaced the ram oring on the dc2, fixed the velocity issues. As for the lpr, if its too low, the bolt wint cycle fast enough and a similar thinf happens where the cocking rod impacts the back block... could also be a simple timing issue witht the 3 way if its mech.

It's a pump not a mechanical or blade cocker

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#21 andrewthewookie

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:03 PM

Could be. When was the last time it was shooting correctly (280-300fps)?

You said your FPS "dropped down" to 180. Does that mean you were shooting around 280 before, and then the velocity started dropping for no reason? Or was it shooting at 180fps when you first aired it up at the beginning of the day?

I'm quoting this because answering this will go a long way to help us figure out the problem.

Also, I didn't want to say anything, but at a simple chrono test, while it might have an effect in some situations, the LPR/timing/ram was most definitely not the case here.

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#22 OEFVeteran

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:03 PM

and no where did i say shoot down under rapid fire... i've noticed both issues one balling and when walking the trigger... its just more pronounced under higher rates of fire...

in no way was i trying to retract from what you all were saying, chances are, its an HPR issue, and it just needs to be rebuilt, cleaned and lubed... unless he adjusted the HPR in shich it will need to be swee spotted again, if thats the route he wants to go...

in offering the advice i did it was merely so he would have a second course of action to follow if the HPR and IVG/hammer spring are not the issue...

but its good to know that we have users pulling quality control on helpful advice
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#23 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:31 PM


Could be. When was the last time it was shooting correctly (280-300fps)?

You said your FPS "dropped down" to 180. Does that mean you were shooting around 280 before, and then the velocity started dropping for no reason? Or was it shooting at 180fps when you first aired it up at the beginning of the day?

I'm quoting this because answering this will go a long way to help us figure out the problem.

Also, I didn't want to say anything, but at a simple chrono test, while it might have an effect in some situations, the LPR/timing/ram was most definitely not the case here.

yea thats what happened it was shooting 285 for 3 shots then droped to 180 and stayed there till it decided it wouldnt shoot anymore

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#24 dosh

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:49 PM

Pull your HPR down, clean it, and inspect the o-rings. If you have another one or can borrow one, swap it out and see what the gun does. Don't worry about velocity right now just see if it shoots. If it does then the reg is your problem. Also try swapping bottles and see if that makes any difference. The problem could be in your tank reg.

#25 OEFVeteran

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:00 PM

what tank and reg are you running? i had a pure energy rebuildable reg back in 09 that i bought new that was FUBAR, didnt have any recharge rate what so ever... i was able to one ball fine for about 10 shots, then nadda... massive shoot down when walking the trigger...
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#26 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

what tank and reg are you running? i had a pure energy rebuildable reg back in 09 that i bought new that was FUBAR, didnt have any recharge rate what so ever... i was able to one ball fine for about 10 shots, then nadda... massive shoot down when walking the trigger...

Ninja carbon fiber/ninja steely both have the changeable reg neither of them work with the cocker but both work with all my other markers

Edited by weekendwarriorPB, 19 April 2013 - 07:52 PM.

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#27 dosh

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:27 AM

Do you have an on/off ASA? If you do is the stem that pushes the pin in the tank reg still in there? Is it going far enough down to press the pin in fully? Is the tank screwing fully into the ASA? If you push against the valve stem with the hammer and cocking rod, can you feel the valve moving? If not then the stem could be broken or the jam nut for the valve might have backed out.

Edited by dosh, 20 April 2013 - 05:28 AM.


#28 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:44 AM

Do you have an on/off ASA? If you do is the stem that pushes the pin in the tank reg still in there? Is it going far enough down to press the pin in fully? Is the tank screwing fully into the ASA? If you push against the valve stem with the hammer and cocking rod, can you feel the valve moving? If not then the stem could be broken or the jam nut for the valve might have backed out.

No I don't have an on/off

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#29 OEFVeteran

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:16 PM

what are you using for an HPR?
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#30 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

what are you using for an HPR?

Stock wgp reg

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#31 SilentButDeadly

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

I don't think your tank is threaded into the ASA far enough. ASA's without on/off's can be a pain because once the gun is pressurized you have to fight that pressure to screw the tank in more. When you screw the tank in to the point where the gun pressurizes, you need to turn it in at least another full turn in order to open the valve completely. Oil the tank threads up and screw that sucker in until it bottoms out.

If that doesn't work then there is something seriously wrong with your HPR.
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#32 dosh

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:42 PM

I don't think your tank is threaded into the ASA far enough. ASA's without on/off's can be a pain because once the gun is pressurized you have to fight that pressure to screw the tank in more. When you screw the tank in to the point where the gun pressurizes, you need to turn it in at least another full turn in order to open the valve completely. Oil the tank threads up and screw that sucker in until it bottoms out.

If that doesn't work then there is something seriously wrong with your HPR.


I'm with you on the ASA. He did say earlier though that his HPR and tank are working if he swaps them onto another gun.

#33 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

Thanks to every one that posted but I think I got the problem fixed will find out for sure this weekend when I play

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#34 dosh

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:53 PM

Thanks to every one that posted but I think I got the problem fixed will find out for sure this weekend when I play



What was it?

#35 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:52 PM

Just took all of it apart including the reg and seems to be fine but like I said havent had the chance to run paint through it

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#36 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:23 PM

still doesnt work have a reg coming in the mail soon to see if it is the reg

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#37 dosh

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:38 AM

still doesnt work have a reg coming in the mail soon to see if it is the reg



I thought you said the reg worked if you put it on another gun.

#38 weekendwarriorPB

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:08 AM


still doesnt work have a reg coming in the mail soon to see if it is the reg



I thought you said the reg worked if you put it on another gun.

We were talking about my tank reg

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#39 dosh

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:02 AM

Ok, I thought you had tried both of them.




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