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#1 azreal

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:01 AM

Short and sweet, any of the regs I tested would work well with anything in that pressure range. You might see a small FPS drop with some of them.

Also ignore sidewinder 31, need to rebuild it to remove that one.

If I was to choose the best among them, Fatty, 2liter, Planet Eclipse. Also going to give the CP a second run since I bet I was approaching 1.5k mark in the tank which is DEATH to any of the regs.

The most interesting results were not the regs themselves, they all did good to excellent. Of course granted this is on my gun, at ~245psi, your mileage may vary. Maybe in a few weeks I will grab an ion and some cheaper stock regs and throw them on there and do a test at sub 200 psi. I also did a test run with my poppet valve and the differences were a bit different, not as much of a downward spike and such so I decided to just test on a worst case scenario. IE 15bps on an spooler. If it could work well in that situation it would work well in most any.

Now what was the most interesting thing, tank pressure. Screw in tanks are horrendous when it comes recharge at around 1.5k and below. Of the 3 I have none have done that well below 1.5k, more testing to follow, I can generally only test 2 every two weeks so taking some time. I have a conquest and old manifold maxflo, going to see if they exhibit the same behavior. So short and sweet, if you drop down below 2k psi, fill up your tank!

http://www.ppog.org/...g/results.shtml

#2 brycelarson

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:04 AM

nice work man, I'll spend some time and then will prob have questions.

#3 azreal

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:12 AM

In terms of what low tank pressure can do take a look at this sidewinder graph at below 1.5k

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To this one at above 2k
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#4 Troy

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:18 AM

Errrr.... having trouble downloading the .CSV file. It looks to me (I'm trying to build a graph to confirm this) that some regs work better at different pressures. I think the fatty is the best example of this so far.
\m/

#5 slinkyaroo

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:51 AM

Can you compare high output and low output tanks? What did you use here?


.

#6 azreal

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:42 AM

Troy, most definetly regs perform differently at different pressures. You can only make a good comparison among the groups, ie all the ones in the DM7 group, all the ones in the excalibur group.

Going to have tank regs on down the line.

Az

#7 Lord Odin

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:59 PM

Troy, most definetly regs perform differently at different pressures. You can only make a good comparison among the groups, ie all the ones in the DM7 group, all the ones in the excalibur group.

Going to have tank regs on down the line.

Az

Az, do you plan on adding any HP (+400 psi) setups to be compared as well? So far, they appear to all be in the same vicinity of pressure. It seems like the differences in performance might be coming from how the marker utilizes the air.

Seeing how the Ninja tank regs perform would be pretty nice to see.

#8 azreal

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 03:52 PM

Eventually, I need to pick up a marker that shoots at 400psi, I have my cocker but I need something I can setup at 15bps full auto. Do any of the spyder-like markers run like that?

I talked with Ninja but they never got back with me.

Edited by azreal, 29 March 2009 - 03:53 PM.


#9 UV Halo

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 05:25 PM

I think a spyder with a very high performing LP valve, lightened hammer and a spring kit might get that low. If I remember correctly my tippy m98C with low pressure kit (no RT or cyclone) shot that low. I can't confirm for you now though.

EDIT: You'll need a Custom Pro with an electronic trigger upgrade for 15BPS though

Edited by UV Halo, 29 March 2009 - 05:30 PM.


#10 Z3R0

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 05:52 PM

Nice to see some results of the SST there. Looks like it performed pretty solid.

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#11 Troy

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 06:37 PM

Eventually, I need to pick up a marker that shoots at 400psi, I have my cocker but I need something I can setup at 15bps full auto. Do any of the spyder-like markers run like that?

I talked with Ninja but they never got back with me.


Hmmm... if you can't find anything to borrow near you, then I might be willing to let you borrow my A5, it could be made to shoot that high (it's at 300psi currently). I would need some sort of collateral... but surely you'll be able to find something closer to home.

I'm in Oklahoma btw.
\m/

#12 Lord Odin

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:00 PM

Eventually, I need to pick up a marker that shoots at 400psi, I have my cocker but I need something I can setup at 15bps full auto. Do any of the spyder-like markers run like that?

I talked with Ninja but they never got back with me.


Hmmm... if you can't find anything to borrow near you, then I might be willing to let you borrow my A5, it could be made to shoot that high (it's at 300psi currently). I would need some sort of collateral... but surely you'll be able to find something closer to home.

I'm in Oklahoma btw.


Personally, I'd rather see a HP Tippmann or equivalent marker that is over 600 psi because there are quite a lot of people that don't go below that. Even below 400 psi is pushing it for a LPK (low pressure kit) on an A5/X7. I have enough spare parts to send my extra gun but I don't have an extra e-grip. You could keep that in mind for the test.

#13 Jack Wood

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:49 AM

Hi Matt,

Just an observation, but in the data you don't make it clear that some of the tests are with the tank pressure below 1.5k.

eg, if you scroll down the page, the first Ego8 reg test you come to shows the regulator REALLY sucking!! But there is no comment about the tank pressure. It just looks like the reg is crap.

As always, the testing is really good. But I think you need to spend a few minutes labeling and formatiing the data, and laying it out in an easy to follow form. At the moment it just jumps around all over the place, and there is no real explanation about what we are looking at.

Maybe a couple of pics of the set-up and the equipment used would be nice too.

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#14 Jack Wood

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 06:06 AM

This came from Pirate Mafia over on PBN:

A = pressure prior to shot, in PSI
B = lowest pressure during shot, in PSI
C = % pressure drop
D = recovery time 95% of pressure in MS


NAME / A / B / C / D

ACI bulldog / 710 / 487 / 31% / 122ms

Armageddon / 807 / 661 / 18% / 90ms

Centerflag / 801 / 675 / 16% / 14ms

Crossfire / 770 / 662 / 14% / 10ms

DYE throttle / 830 / 573 / 30% / 173ms

EVIL Scion / 556 / 472 / 15% / 18ms

Guerrilla Air Myth / 653 / 597 / 8% / 7ms

Ninja Paintball / 804 / 714 / 11% / 8ms

Pro Toyz / 804 / 508 / 26% / 41ms

Pure Energy / 840 / 724 / 14% / 10(30*)ms

WDP A.I.R. / 797 / 648 / 19% / 45ms


This was posted over in the Creepy Regs thread.

This list means nothing in the context we are talking about here. Really, the recovery and percentage drop need measuring across a range of tank pressures. For the results posted here, we have no idea what the tank pressure was for each test/reg.

What I can say for sure, is that there was no way that those are the fingures for a Pure Energy or Ninja reg with only 1300psi in the tank!!
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#15 brycelarson

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 07:04 AM

Hit up Eric Wang at Azodin - that might get you a 15 bps, mid to low pressure gun.

#16 azreal

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:49 AM

Jack, yeah its on my todo list, actually to go through all the results and add more comments. I may get to it today at work if its quiet ;) . The SST was good, but not defining like the 2liter was. Of course all the regs did adequate enough, some a bit more than others. I was even considering buying the one AKA sent me but I hate that lower fitting. The bulbousness of it.

#17 azreal

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:55 AM

Added comments, also I was wondering why it looked like crap. Then I remembered it needs the css style sheet, so now it looks much better, though still crappy ;)

Let me know other suggestions/comments.

#18 Snipez4664

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:07 PM

I was even considering buying the one AKA sent me but I hate that lower fitting. The bulbousness of it.


It's a very creepy reg. :dodgy:
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#19 ktap

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:49 PM

I think a spyder with a very high performing LP valve, lightened hammer and a spring kit might get that low. If I remember correctly my tippy m98C with low pressure kit (no RT or cyclone) shot that low. I can't confirm for you now though.

EDIT: You'll need a Custom Pro with an electronic trigger upgrade for 15BPS though



Hit up Eric Wang at Azodin - that might get you a 15 bps, mid to low pressure gun.


both the azodin zenith and the spyder electra run at about 300-350 psi, i'm not sure if that's low enough for the testing bryce wants done. however if you go and talk to any of the locals (<GOD>, DFsniper, Lamorte, Mrpurplehawk, to name a few) over on the kingman pages on PBN you will find many custom spyders that run comfortably in the the 400psi range. LP setups have been a favorite mod on spyders for ages, and one can be done pretty quickly for about $100 if you already have a reg. Basically any spyder with a new valve, some home mods (mostly drilling larger air pathways) and a spring kit can get that low no problem, though it does take some spring tuning. Also for some strange reason almost all spyders are able to run at a lower pressure with CO2 instead of HPA.

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#20 brycelarson

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 06:26 PM

yeah, the zenith is at 250-300 psi, but what does the blitz run at? The Kaos is a HP gun - I sweetspotted mine to 650.

#21 ktap

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 10:05 AM

the blitz is basically a kaos with an e-frame and eyes slapped on. its analagous to the new spyder pilot. kingman has been doing that kind of thing for years. i would expect the blitz to be able to run at around 650psi, but you would have to put a reg on it first.

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#22 CrazyLittle

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 11:21 AM

Which "dye" reg was it? Hyper 2 or Hyper 3? (does it even matter?)

Also it looks like all three of those similarly designed regs: The Dye, Sidewinder and CP regs, all performed similarly. Do these results point more towards the performance of reg design in general or what?

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#23 azreal

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 11:33 AM

Sorry, probably need to clarify, it was the Hyper 2 since they were all on a DM7. I have no idea if the Hyper 3s perform the same since I think proprietary threading is just silly!

#24 CrazyLittle

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 04:16 PM

The Hyper 3 also comes in a standard ASA version, but it's obscenely expensive. ~$90

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#25 FulniX

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 04:50 PM

What kind of screw in do you have? The Pure Energy regs if properly maintained should give you proper recharge down to ~1k with slight issues down to 850psi, even below that the recharge rate is generally ok. Now that I look at the graphs they are not that bad and that is about the standard of what you may see at those pressures and ROF.

Short and sweet, any of the regs I tested would work well with anything in that pressure range. You might see a small FPS drop with some of them.

Also ignore sidewinder 31, need to rebuild it to remove that one.

If I was to choose the best among them, Fatty, 2liter, Planet Eclipse. Also going to give the CP a second run since I bet I was approaching 1.5k mark in the tank which is DEATH to any of the regs.

The most interesting results were not the regs themselves, they all did good to excellent. Of course granted this is on my gun, at ~245psi, your mileage may vary. Maybe in a few weeks I will grab an ion and some cheaper stock regs and throw them on there and do a test at sub 200 psi. I also did a test run with my poppet valve and the differences were a bit different, not as much of a downward spike and such so I decided to just test on a worst case scenario. IE 15bps on an spooler. If it could work well in that situation it would work well in most any.

Now what was the most interesting thing, tank pressure. Screw in tanks are horrendous when it comes recharge at around 1.5k and below. Of the 3 I have none have done that well below 1.5k, more testing to follow, I can generally only test 2 every two weeks so taking some time. I have a conquest and old manifold maxflo, going to see if they exhibit the same behavior. So short and sweet, if you drop down below 2k psi, fill up your tank!

http://www.ppog.org/...g/results.shtml


Edited by FulniX, 31 March 2009 - 04:55 PM.

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#26 Jack Wood

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 06:08 AM

What kind of screw in do you have? The Pure Energy regs if properly maintained should give you proper recharge down to ~1k with slight issues down to 850psi, even below that the recharge rate is generally ok. Now that I look at the graphs they are not that bad and that is about the standard of what you may see at those pressures and ROF.


In all our tests, the Pure Energy starts to suffer from 1500psi down. Some are indeed better than other, but none are what I would call brilliant. Certainly nothing like good enough to keep a spool valve gun at full velocity during a 15 or even 12bps ramped cycle.
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#27 cockerpunk

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 10:04 AM

this makes me wonder if the way most people play, "shooting deeper" into the tank isn't really helping you out much. i always figured with an 800 psi tank that when the tanks dips below 1000, that its pretty pointless shooting in that region. seems like that is higher then that.

Edited by cockerpunk, 01 April 2009 - 10:05 AM.

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#28 Jack Wood

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:32 AM

this makes me wonder if the way most people play, "shooting deeper" into the tank isn't really helping you out much. i always figured with an 800 psi tank that when the tanks dips below 1000, that its pretty pointless shooting in that region. seems like that is higher then that.


There are several factors.

Players want to shoot deeper into their tank because a) they want to carry the smallest possible tank B) they are carrying more paint than ever and c) they are shooting more paint due to ramping.

The rate of fire is the real issue with shooting deeper into a tank. If you are playing pump, then the extra recovery time for the regulator at lower tank pressures is mitigated by the fact you have longer between shots for that recovery to occur. However when you are shooting a spool valve gun that has a gas isolation mechanism, in ramping, you are giving the system a very short period of time to recharge the valve chamber from zero psi to whatever is needed to give the next shot the same velocity as the first shot. To give you some king of idea of the time alloted to re-charge the valve chamber on a VERY FAST gun of that type, at 15bps the valve chamber has approx 40ms to fill from empty. On certain other spool valve guns that time is actually significantly reduced, by as much as 12-15ms!!

So as you can see, if a tank reg is working well, then these figures shouldn't be much of an issue. But it only takes a small drop in performance to cause a serious valve chamber recharge issue.
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#29 cockerpunk

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 01:57 PM

this makes me wonder if the way most people play, "shooting deeper" into the tank isn't really helping you out much. i always figured with an 800 psi tank that when the tanks dips below 1000, that its pretty pointless shooting in that region. seems like that is higher then that.


There are several factors.

Players want to shoot deeper into their tank because a) they want to carry the smallest possible tank B) they are carrying more paint than ever and c) they are shooting more paint due to ramping.

The rate of fire is the real issue with shooting deeper into a tank. If you are playing pump, then the extra recovery time for the regulator at lower tank pressures is mitigated by the fact you have longer between shots for that recovery to occur. However when you are shooting a spool valve gun that has a gas isolation mechanism, in ramping, you are giving the system a very short period of time to recharge the valve chamber from zero psi to whatever is needed to give the next shot the same velocity as the first shot. To give you some king of idea of the time alloted to re-charge the valve chamber on a VERY FAST gun of that type, at 15bps the valve chamber has approx 40ms to fill from empty. On certain other spool valve guns that time is actually significantly reduced, by as much as 12-15ms!!

So as you can see, if a tank reg is working well, then these figures shouldn't be much of an issue. But it only takes a small drop in performance to cause a serious valve chamber recharge issue.


thats what i was implying, that shooting deep into a tank if you are playing with ramping or even high ROF, those shots are not real shots.

i always thought this level was lower (tank below 1000psi) but it turns out this is much higher.

Edited by cockerpunk, 01 April 2009 - 01:57 PM.

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#30 Poe

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:27 AM

azreal -
Just FYI, dead link.




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