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"bullpup" paintball gun?


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#1 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 02:56 PM

I noticed in paintball we tend to stick with the "frame, breach, barrel" variety of gun. Has anyone thought of doing a "bullpup" style, where the trigger and grip is in front of the breach/bolt? What do you think is the advantages of such a style of gun would be? Disadvantages? Would you buy one if they figured out a way to make it work?
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#2 REDCOBRA

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:04 PM

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#3 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:08 PM

No one said the board had to be in the grip...
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#4 Billy Badass-RPF

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:13 PM

Bullpups are short so the hopper would be right in your face. If it were magfed the mag would be in a awkward spot.

Edited by Billy Badass-RPF, 27 April 2013 - 03:16 PM.

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#5 OEFVeteran

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:14 PM

Rifles benefit from a bullpup design because their overall length is much longer then a paintball gun... I personally like the length of my paintball guns, any smaller or shorter would make them feel cramped....

And, just so ya know, must bullpup rifles are not widly accepted by professional shooters, and there are currantly only three in active service, the tavor, aug and l85. And the brits ive worked with overseas hated the l85, and the ausies were indifferent, unless they were left handed shooters, then they hated the aug.
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#6 dosh

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

The Z grip for mags kinda gave that setup, but it never took off because it was just so radically different despite probably being he most ergnomically correct position for your hand. Folks tend to balk when things get too different from the norm. But the breach was about centered over your hand with the valve well behind it.

#7 asthmaticrhino

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

The Z grip for mags kinda gave that setup, but it never took off because it was just so radically different despite probably being he most ergnomically correct position for your hand. Folks tend to balk when things get too different from the norm. But the breach was about centered over your hand with the valve well behind it.

Actually the z frame was what got me thinking about this?
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#8 get.lit.up!

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:57 PM

I noticed in paintball we tend to stick with the "frame, breach, barrel" variety of gun. Has anyone thought of doing a "bullpup" style, where the trigger and grip is in front of the breach/bolt?
I Have

What do you think is the advantages of such a style of gun would be?
A Pretty cool ass marker that will hold more than say a dam and D mags, compact design

Disadvantages?
small tank will limit how much you can shoot, harder to maintain

Would you buy one if they figured out a way to make it work?
Depends on price


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#9 OEFVeteran

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:12 PM

Aside from looks, if you guys want the bennefit of a bull pup, get a shorter barrel... The only benefit from a bullpup rifle design is the duction in overall length.... Its another concpt from the worl of real firearms that is impracticle for paintball....

If the fire controls are ahead of the bolt and breach, the the ass end of the marker, and your hopper, are going to be right in your face... So, are you going to put a stock on the pack of the marker and move the tank farther forward? Make it remote line only? mag fed only?

While i like the look of a bull pup rifle, if it done right, like the fs2k from fnh, but its too small of a market in paintball for a company to make a bullpup mag fed marker... And making a hopper fed one would make the gun very awkward and uncomfortable
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#10 Dogg3

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:14 PM

if you guys want the bennefit of a bull pup, get a shorter barrel...

Isn't the benefit of a bullpup a longer barrel in a smaller body?

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#11 dosh

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:16 PM

Bullpups are short so the hopper would be right in your face. If it were magfed the mag would be in a awkward spot.



That's a good point. Proper form dictates centerlining the breech/barrel with your nose and the back of the hopper is about 2-3 inches from your face. How much further back can you move it? The alternative is to just move the grips forward but then you'd need to have the tank extended back towards you.

#12 OEFVeteran

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

All bullpups ive shot and seen use a standard barrel length... For military applications its a 14.24 in barrel for a carbine and a 18 pr 20 inch barrel for a rfile.l the only bullpup ive worked with that has the option of running much longer barrles is the dta srs sniper rifle... When you change it to a larger caliber, a longer barrel is used.

The idea of a bullpup is to take a standard action and barrel length, and shorted the overall length of the rifle..l to do this, you must put the action in the butstock, right next to the shooters face... The triggers on them are typically heavy and awkward to pull till you get used to them... Their benefit is for people that are in mechanized units, airborne units, and clearing rooms... Smaller rifle means more manuverable... But, lack of an adjustable stock and a few other features make a bullpup a niche gun, and not suitable for open warfare, like an ar15 or scar
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#13 Slagathor

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:28 PM

Already been done.


http://www.vm68.com/...conversion.html

#14 get.lit.up!

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

what if:

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#15 dosh

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:36 PM

Already been done.


http://www.vm68.com/...conversion.html


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#16 SilentButDeadly

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:13 PM

Seems, like it would work best with a RF, unless you're lefty :D
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#17 IPlaySoccer

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

what if:

Posted Image

As someone who like to hold their gun real tight against their shoulder, the fact that the tank dictates how close my gun is to me is a complete no go. If you made a stock that was shorter and that moved above the tank, it would work much better.

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#18 Akkadian_Tim

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

Rifles benefit from a bullpup design because their overall length is much longer then a paintball gun... I personally like the length of my paintball guns, any smaller or shorter would make them feel cramped....

And, just so ya know, must bullpup rifles are not widly accepted by professional shooters, and there are currantly only three in active service, the tavor, aug and l85. And the brits ive worked with overseas hated the l85, and the ausies were indifferent, unless they were left handed shooters, then they hated the aug.



And the Tavor is loved by the IDF.

Btw I'm pretty sure the F2000 is in use in some European countries.

I know plenty of shooters who love bullpups. I know plenty that dislike them. It's all a matter of preferences.

For a real gun, I like the concept to cut down on overall length. For a paintball gun that would put the hopper right in your face, plus the tank would be awkward at best and impossible at worst. For a mag fed that had some sort of internal air? Maybe.

To the OP, the A5 had a bullpup mod out for a while called the B5. It was essentially a shell with linkage arm/trigger that you put the A5 into. Worked alright if you had a remote line. Sucked massively if you tried air on gun.

#19 andrewthewookie

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:26 PM

Don't forget the old discontinued B5 shell kit for the A5.

Posted Image

Also, I didn't want to spend money for one of those, so I made my own A5 P90. Tippmanns are long enough that you can bull-pup them and still have the hopper out of your face.

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#20 bowmasta

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:11 PM

I've got a P90 Pneu 'Mag, it's lots of fun for sure.. I play limited paint/stock class only so the springfeed is fine by me. I don't own a tank so I usually rent/ borrow one when I use it. I also had to get something to hold the tank because I don't own a pack either. lol

Posted Image

It's fun but it takes some getting used to, the angle isn't the best for sighting down the barrel either. It was supposed to come with a scope but the dude I traded with forgot it.
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#21 OEFVeteran

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:35 AM


Rifles benefit from a bullpup design because their overall length is much longer then a paintball gun... I personally like the length of my paintball guns, any smaller or shorter would make them feel cramped....

And, just so ya know, must bullpup rifles are not widly accepted by professional shooters, and there are currantly only three in active service, the tavor, aug and l85. And the brits ive worked with overseas hated the l85, and the ausies were indifferent, unless they were left handed shooters, then they hated the aug.



And the Tavor is loved by the IDF.

Btw I'm pretty sure the F2000 is in use in some European countries.

I know plenty of shooters who love bullpups. I know plenty that dislike them. It's all a matter of preferences.

For a real gun, I like the concept to cut down on overall length. For a paintball gun that would put the hopper right in your face, plus the tank would be awkward at best and impossible at worst. For a mag fed that had some sort of internal air? Maybe.

To the OP, the A5 had a bullpup mod out for a while called the B5. It was essentially a shell with linkage arm/trigger that you put the A5 into. Worked alright if you had a remote line. Sucked massively if you tried air on gun.


First, by professional shooters i mean military...

Second, the tavor is a great gun, the isrealies should live it...

Thr f2k isnt an active service rifle, its a mission specific issued weapon, even US special forceas used them.

I am not trying to say bull pups a bad, just that they are not all that practical for paintball given currant trends in feeding paint and air into the gun... If that trend changes, then i can see pullpup bing more of an asset on the field
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#22 drg

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:36 AM

The point of a bullpup was to put a rifle-length barrel in a subgun sized package. Since velocity and accuracy are not affected by the length of the barrel on a paintball gun, you have the option to shorten the barrel if you want a shorter overall marker. Then the aforementioned problems with moving the hopper that far back.

Also part of the reason for a compact rifle is that it is easier to manage when not in use, e.g. when slung, stored or carried. With paintball that is generally a non-factor.
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#23 OEFVeteran

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:14 PM

The point of a bullpup was to put a rifle-length barrel in a subgun sized package. Since velocity and accuracy are not affected by the length of the barrel on a paintball gun, you have the option to shorten the barrel if you want a shorter overall marker. Then the aforementioned problems with moving the hopper that far back.

Also part of the reason for a compact rifle is that it is easier to manage when not in use, e.g. when slung, stored or carried. With paintball that is generally a non-factor.


Partly true about rifle management... A fulle size rifle, carbine or bullpup wont be aby easier when slung... The true advantages of a bullpup rifle come when its employed with a mechanized unit, as even the m4 with its adjustable stock and short barrel is cumbersome when getting in and out of humvees and armoerd trucks... Also, when clearing rooms, its nice to have a 14.25 or 16 inch barrel with a shoter overall length for manuverability purposes... The reall bennefit of a bullpup is in its size, but, the draw backs tend to outweigh the positives with them... They are a pain in the ass to shoot from a prone position, unless you are using a p90 or f2k, shooting left handed isnt much of an option, as the ejection port is in your face...

The major difference between a bull pup rifle and a paintball gun, is that with a real rifle the barrel length affects the velocity of the round, and accuracy at longer ranges, where as with a paintball gun, it doesnt, as you stated... So, unless the player is going for a look of a bullpup, they can gain the advantages of shorter overall length by running a 12in barrel and a smaller tank...
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#24 Etek3am ftw

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

what if:

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i would buy that

#25 Punisher068

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:16 PM

Here my Ion bullpup I just completed,uses DYE DAM magazines and Magwell,uses PBs and First Strike rounds
IMG_20130903_125116_zps13be566c.jpg

#26 awesompants

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:12 PM

Looks great


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#27 Punisher068

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:27 PM

Looks great

Thanks , it actually works ,I can use optics too

Has parts from an SP 1,SP 8,2011 PMR,and gen 1 Ion

I've shot Reballs,First Strikes and regular PBs with it for benchtesting,getting a consitant 250-260 fps without any fine tuning 

The magwell&bracket are removable so I'll be able to use one of my boxmags on it also



#28 andrewthewookie

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:09 PM

Oh hey, it's you. :D

 

260 seems low, is that your field's limit?


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#29 Punisher068

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:02 PM

No most local fields are 275-285 around here,my normal outlaw group is 300

It's definitely too low but it's a good place to start. No gauge on it yet,want to make sure I don't blow hoses or noid from overpressurize or reg spikes.

It's fairly consistent I'll do ROF/drop off test next,have a few more mags on the way

 

Have any luck getting a magwell?consider fabbing your own,it's not too complicated on the inside

Oh hey, it's you. :D

 

260 seems low, is that your field's limit?



#30 andrewthewookie

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:05 PM

I keep forgetting to call Dye. I've already got a few of their mags, and you're right, it doesn't look like it would be too complicated to just make my own setup for them.


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#31 CharcoalCanPaintball

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 10:03 PM

Don't forget the old discontinued B5 shell kit for the A5.Bullpup_B5_DSCF4498.JPGAlso, I didn't want to spend money for one of those, so I made my own A5 P90. Tippmanns are long enough that you can bull-pup them and still have the hopper out of your face.IMG_0155.jpg


Is this made from a frame of a airsoft gun? I wish they would make a mil-sim p90 paintball gun. I think if someone go it to feed through a p90 style mag, that would be pretty kickass.

#32 bowmasta

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:48 PM

 

Don't forget the old discontinued B5 shell kit for the A5.o, I didn't want to spend money for one of those, so I made my own A5 P90. Tippmanns are long enough that you can bull-pup them and still have the hopper out of your face.


Is this made from a frame of a airsoft gun? I wish they would make a mil-sim p90 paintball gun. I think if someone go it to feed through a p90 style mag, that would be pretty kickass.

 

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#33 Jawz

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:07 AM

Can't you guys be happy with useless stocks that if you want to use you'll have to buy a remote line, and then not be able to shoot with the other hand? No... Just me?


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#34 andrewthewookie

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:10 AM

Yes, just you.


Also, I didn't want to spend money for one of those, so I made my own A5 P90. Tippmanns are long enough that you can bull-pup them and still have the hopper out of your face.


Is this made from a frame of a airsoft gun? I wish they would make a mil-sim p90 paintball gun. I think if someone go it to feed through a p90 style mag, that would be pretty kickass.

 

Yeah, I gutted a cheap P-90 airsoft gun.


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#35 Punisher068

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:00 PM

I don't have a problem sighting down mine,it was part of the design.

When shooting  on the opposite side(left) of bunkers I don't switch hands,just the position of the gun

There's plenty of slack in the airline to move and sight freely.

Normally I'm not a remote line or sight fan for traditional gun design,it works for this project,could see it working for the above p90&B5 conversions

I can still mount a peanut or small tank on the gripframe in case I changed my mind



#36 AoSpades

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:03 AM

If I remember right, undergroundmodshop.com used to make bullpup kits for the A5, they were pretty nice too, high grade composite, even had a video of them running over the frame repeatedly with a truck and it still worked just fine.


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#37 Punisher068

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:07 PM

Oh how I miss UMS.....

I've seen a magfed version of the B5 in person,it was really well made and ergonomic,inspired me to do my bullpup build



#38 cockerpunk

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:30 PM

what we should do is bullpup with the loader in the stock .....


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#39 bigx

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

what we should do is bullpup with the loader in the stock .....

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#40 The Recballer

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:44 PM


what we should do is bullpup with the loader in the stock .....

qm.gifqm.gif
post-25367-give-that-man-a-cookie-meme-P

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#41 Punisher068

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:40 AM

what we should do is bullpup with the loader in the stock .....

Does a boxmag count?

This was my original idea when I started this mod several years and  revisions ago...

I got a Hammer 7,used some FS at a scenario,changed it to magfed

Hard to tell from the pics but the magwell&bracket are removable

Boxmag is almost completed for this gun,need to align the bracket to the breech and add feed hose...



#42 Punisher068

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:34 PM

 

 

what we should do is bullpup with the loader in the stock .....

qm.gifqm.gif
post-25367-give-that-man-a-cookie-meme-P

 

I prefer oatmeal raisin plz,need to eat healthy to lug this around

1379111357241_zps8cd469d6.jpg



#43 SAS-WARD

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:22 PM

This is my finished project,... The "BEAST"

This is my Fn2000 Mag-fed ion project, it has a virtue board and virtue red eyes, dye hyper3 reg with thread saver cap mod, modified ion breach and modified tacamo mkv mag well, long ion hoses, extended battery wires, micro switch with extended wires, ion to a-5 tread adapter, flasc a-5 9" barrel with a flasc 9" extension and a tm15 3" extension, flasc suppressor..... the virtue eyes stop the gun from firing when the mag is empty (no guess work or counting shots) and the mag release is fully functional,...tactical rail on the bottom with a grenade launcher and the g36 carry handle with scope on top....

Enjoy

fn15_zps24f85168.jpg

here is a link to a short video i made shooting it
Fn2000 Mag-fed Ion - YouTube

By: SAS-WARD


SAS-WARD


#44 Scum

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

Bullpup does actually have a few advantages in paintball:

 

- Longer barrel in a shorter frame. When using first strike rounds and rifled barrels, barrel length actually does have a bit of an effect on accuracy. This is because a longer rifled barrel gives the first strike round more time to find the rifling and be spun.

 

- Smaller profile. This is always good in CQC situations and just in general. The barrel is right next to your hand so you can bind to your bunker easily.

 

- Looks awesome. Always a good thing.

 

- Quieter. The porting in the barrel is usually covered by the bullpup shell. I'm not exactly sure how much this helps, but it should help at least a bit.


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